Advantage of being a healer/tank still here in FW?

superbigfatpanda
superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
edited March 2011 in General Discussion
Hey, this is just a question regarding the general code of this game. I remember on PWI in a TT instance the tank and healer would get first choice on mats, hp/mp charm (guild run), etc. In FW so far all the gear instances like LH, the drops have been divided in a way basically if you are a warrior and a warrior gear drops you get it (if more than one warrior it's being rolled for). So far LH is the highest lvl instance I've been to. I wonder if the higher lvl instances will be like that too. While I like this system I wonder if it will take away the advantages of being a tank/healer. Higher lvls please let me know thnx.
Post edited by superbigfatpanda on
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Comments

  • ursumtl
    ursumtl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    No there isn't any advantage and thanks God and PWE developers for that. I'm tired of Cleric/Barb having a "first choice" in mats because hey, they have 30k repair bills or mana cost. This bullcrap was nothing but a greedy artificially created system based on the stupidity of the TT drop and gear logic that made a lot of barbs and clerics very rich for no reason other than their simple existance.Barbs and clerics saw the could get away with it and the profited to max.
    Now there might be some posts around the idea of " before 5 aps repairs cost xxxx". All I have to say to that is: yeah, and the mats were at least 3 times more expensive than they were after 5 aps.
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I really dont think theres any doubt that a tank and a healer are the most important members of a group. Not even taking into consideration the mp cost and repair cost, an instance cannot be started without them. Therefore it really takes away some incentive for some ppl to roll a tank or a healer (unless they truly love it) if they don't gain some sort of advantage to offset their disadvantage. I am asking for ppl who are 50+ if a similar trend is on FW than on PWI. This isn't for DDs to complain about how they aren't picking first. DDs are replaceable, tanks and healers are not.
  • ursumtl
    ursumtl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    well, go ahead with 5 tanks and healer do instances in FW, specially the timed ones. Good luck, let's see who's needed and who's not.

    And if you could not figure so far, tank and healer job are not really a "MUST". The auto -squad system started this morning a EC squad with MM, Mage , 3 Vampires and 1 Warrior. Obvioulsy the math was done that there is enough healing power for that squad. A WR can do a good job tanking, a Vampire and Bard can do a good enough job healing for most of the instances. So no, there is no such thing as "instances cannot be started without tank and healer". And I hope it stays like that for the rest of the game. No class should be NEEDED, all class should be WELCOME.
  • shiro
    shiro Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    There's a slight difference between EC and Welkin Castle.
  • coldazzkila
    coldazzkila Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ursumtl wrote: »
    well, go ahead with 5 tanks and healer do instances in FW, specially the timed ones. Good luck, let's see who's needed and who's not.

    And if you could not figure so far, tank and healer job are not really a "MUST". The auto -squad system started this morning a EC squad with MM, Mage , 3 Vampires and 1 Warrior. Obvioulsy the math was done that there is enough healing power for that squad. A WR can do a good job tanking, a Vampire and Bard can do a good enough job healing for most of the instances. So no, there is no such thing as "instances cannot be started without tank and healer". And I hope it stays like that for the rest of the game. No class should be NEEDED, all class should be WELCOME.

    I think that at later levels protectors who skill themselves to be pure tanks will be significantly better at tanking than warriors whether they build themselves to tank or not, just a guess but I think im right. So at later levels I think a protector will probably be necessary for dungeons. Don't really know about healers though.
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I really didn't start this thread to be the battleground of whether or not DDs are important or whether or not Warriors can replace Protectors or Vamps/Bards can replace Priests.

    I just want to know one thing. With the auto-squad system the way it is, is there still an advantage to play a healer or a tank? This will greatly affect mine, and many others' decision come OB.
  • shiro
    shiro Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I really didn't start this thread to be the battleground of whether or not DDs are important or whether or not Warriors can replace Protectors or Vamps/Bards can replace Priests.

    I just want to know one thing. With the auto-squad system the way it is, is there still an advantage to play a healer or a tank? This will greatly affect mine, and many others' decision come OB.

    Well, as long as the system counts bards and vampires as full healers, and warriors as tanks, yes. And you'll hardly to gear dungeons using that system, unless you have a party almost ready.
  • keef1988
    keef1988 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ursumtl wrote: »
    well, go ahead with 5 tanks and healer do instances in FW, specially the timed ones. Good luck, let's see who's needed and who's not.

    And if you could not figure so far, tank and healer job are not really a "MUST". The auto -squad system started this morning a EC squad with MM, Mage , 3 Vampires and 1 Warrior. Obvioulsy the math was done that there is enough healing power for that squad. A WR can do a good job tanking, a Vampire and Bard can do a good enough job healing for most of the instances. So no, there is no such thing as "instances cannot be started without tank and healer". And I hope it stays like that for the rest of the game. No class should be NEEDED, all class should be WELCOME.

    I have done AGT with 4 healers and a tank and one DD without losing any towers and without coming anywhere near the timer.

    Higher level instances start to require a real tank in the form of protector...
    Talents on the protector do factor in but I find if its a DD/PvP build tank they still do fine they just need to be abit better players/gearwise.
    Similarly im sure a defence warrior with super gear and a great player could tank but a protector will always be preferred as the warrior would have to work his butt off

    Now please go try a run without healers and Tanks then maybe you will appreciate the other persons point.
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Seriously, try running AoS without a protector, see which wave you get to. Anyway like my original post stated. I want to know what it's like in higher lvl instances. I do not give a **** about EC and LH and the 3x gear that they drop. Thats like saying Barbs and Clerics gets first pick in the boss drops in a fb39. What I want to know is whether in higher lvl instances if healers and tanks gets priority on key items, like TT mats in PWI.
  • keef1988
    keef1988 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    No class gets priority pick of drops. Everyone rolls on it.
    However if your with friends or guild chances are if you ask nicely they will give/trade it.

    Most drops in instances are gear though, and as someone already stated thats divided into classes, if your on the right party loot setting.

    Personally if I see someone nagging for say the soul crystal drop because they "used more pots healing/tanking" then you'd no longer be in my guild, or at the very least I'd avoid your instance runs.

    Also you find guilds don't really like people that don't use mp pots in runs. So usually everyones used a fair few pots.
    I certainly never go on a second instance with anyone that decided auto attack was fine for the boss fight, so that as a healer I had to heal for longer thus using more pots.
  • shiro
    shiro Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Seriously, try running AoS without a protector, see which wave you get to. Anyway like my original post stated. I want to know what it's like in higher lvl instances. I do not give a **** about EC and LH and the 3x gear that they drop. Thats like saying Barbs and Clerics gets first pick in the boss drops in a fb39. What I want to know is whether in higher lvl instances if healers and tanks gets priority on key items, like TT mats in PWI.

    AoS is not that hard, we've done it on level 43 with warrior and sins as tanks. Later around 50 it's pretty easy without any melee/tanking class.
  • storiessaveus87
    storiessaveus87 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    So you're complaining that a priest doesn't automatically end up with vampire gear when there's a vampire in the party that could use it?

    Lolwut.
  • ursumtl
    ursumtl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yeah, pretty much, the **** thinking inherited from PWI
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I just wish that there were special privilege giving to the most needed class, but to lvl 50 so far that is not the case. I guess asking a bunch of ppl who probably know less than me is not rly a good idea, especially when they all probably were bitter DDs that got the smallest slice of pie in PWI.
  • ihazcookies
    ihazcookies Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I play a pure tank speced lvl 50 prot. I don't see the reason why tanks and priests should get special privileges just because they exist. It wouldn't be fair, everyone has their part to play, and the few drops that aren't class specific are rolled on. It's the only way for it to be fair.
    BobZeConqueror
    Wicked
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Seriously, try running AoS without a protector, see which wave you get to.
    I used to do that all the time. :rolleyes: (still do, but now I'm too OP for it, so it wouldn't be fair would it? I can even tank it as a mage)

    Warriors have more DPS means faster runs so I'd take 2 warriors anyday. Of course only problem is you need 1 tank and 1 off tank in AoS... and people don't like to share loot (2 warriors in party for example) unless one is there only for profit, then he can pick some class not in party if agreed upon.

    Obviously this is with random people -- I'd take any prot if he's a friend over anyone else lol. (not much difference anyway)
  • redwingpixie
    redwingpixie Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Well prioty isnt needed in FW as playing a priest and prot i dont think is as expensive and costly in gear as barbs and clerics in pwi.

    only advantage a healer and tank has on fw is always being needed =P thats all u need more runs = better chance for better gear
    D-D-Disconnect-And-Self-Destruct-One-Bullet-At-A-Time
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I just wish that there were special privilege giving to the most needed class, but to lvl 50 so far that is not the case. I guess asking a bunch of ppl who probably know less than me is not rly a good idea, especially when they all probably were bitter DDs that got the smallest slice of pie in PWI.
    it's ok if you want to be spoiled and refuse to run without getting everything -- there's plenty of people to replace you don't worry.
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Well then, have fun all you fair and generous internet players, I, on the other hand will be rolling an assasin, who contributes **** to parties but will get the same share of loot. see u in autogroup!
  • fenrina
    fenrina Posts: 336
    edited February 2011
    I just wish that there were special privilege giving to the most needed class, but to lvl 50 so far that is not the case.

    There's no point in wanting special privileges in fw. If a Protector gear drops, the protectors get dibs. If a Priest gear drops, the priests get dibs. Same for all classes.

    The only thing I could see asking for are "special" potion mats and an item that increases durability on gear. The first is made moot by the countless normal potion mats. The second is pretty much useless except if die a lot.
  • ussichu
    ussichu Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    As a priest you get the most friend requests when you do your job right.

  • kitsunesake
    kitsunesake Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I just wish that there were special privilege giving to the most needed class, but to lvl 50 so far that is not the case. I guess asking a bunch of ppl who probably know less than me is not rly a good idea, especially when they all probably were bitter DDs that got the smallest slice of pie in PWI.

    The only bitter person I see is you~
    Honestly, just because the people commenting here see no need for PWI's broken player enforced method of dealing with instance drops in FW doesn't mean they don't know what they're talking about or that they're butthurt DDs. (Gee, I wonder how PWI's DDs got the reputation for always being butthurt about the privileges barbs/clerics demand in that game. Could it be because the 'system' in place is massively unfair and makes little sense or something?)

    "most needed class" *snort* And which one would that be, pray tell? There are 3 classes capable of healing in this game. And while there may be only one class with a taunt skill, they are by no means the ONLY tankers in the game. Even a fragile Marksman or Assassin can tank here, so long as their healer's on the ball and they have some HP pots.

    There is no indispensable class. Get over yourself, or go back to PWI where you can strong-arm people into giving you your 'special privileges'. There is no TT-like equipment construction here. The whole piece drops, or nothing does, and every class gets first pick of the drops FOR THEIR CLASS. And I, for one, am very glad of that because of people like you who want to be lord king of the anthill just because of the class they rolled.

    Cerics and prots won't get any special drop treatment here just for being prots or clerics. If you don't like that (or being told that, apparently) just leave.
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I, on the other hand will be rolling an assasin, who contributes **** to parties but will get the same share of loot.
    Sins have high single target DPS at higher levels, as long as they spam skills. MP consumption is terrible though, so most don't spam at their capacity. But don't worry at higher levels people become more selective in who they're taking, no spam = bad rep = get kicked or not invited. Have fun.
  • superbigfatpanda
    superbigfatpanda Posts: 32 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    octarone wrote: »
    Sins have high single target DPS at higher levels, as long as they spam skills. MP consumption is terrible though, so most don't spam at their capacity. But don't worry at higher levels people become more selective in who they're taking, no spam = bad rep = get kicked or not invited. Have fun.

    autoparty ftw. thats the whole point.
  • brokensaintvx
    brokensaintvx Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Protip: Leave the negative Anti-pwi sentiment behind, this game IS NOT pwi, its nothing like it. If you're burned out because you're Jealous of not getting the best drops from pwi and bring it here, you wont, WONT be happy.


    This game holds a lot more promise to be a friendlier gamer community due to the inherited mechanics in game. As long as you get gear appropriate to your class per roll there shouldn't be any room for complaint. Money is easy to come by, EXP is even easier to earn. Drop the " merch merch merch" attitude, its a whole new ball game.

    Further there are 3 healer classes, and 2 tankers :)
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    autoparty ftw. thats the whole point.
    I said high level. People rarely use it at higher level instances, even AoS is rare to auto party when you're like 40 (not with uber gear).
  • hjsimp
    hjsimp Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I find the drop system in this game to be fair. Though if you were spamming HP pots the entire instance, it sucks to see the solo priest weapon drop going to the lazy priest that did nothing but stand there the whole run. Same holds true for all other classes though. The only fairer distribution should be based on contribution, not class. My priest spams a lot of pots on every instance, but it's about the same rate compared to my marksman. That short-cooldown fire-rake-a-thingie aoe spell is insanely MP hungry. Unlike PWI, everyone has repair bills in this game, and everyone pots like crazy. Some bards and warriors use a lot more coins and pots than some priests and protectors. And some of them heal/tank better to boot.

    I only wish that the dice rolling algorithm worked in a more "random" manner for I've seen too many cases where the entire drop list went to one person. Though for every 2 or 3 instances where I walked away with nothing, I can remember 1 or 2 cases where I took home the entire list. Just today, my priest got all 3 pet spells from the only boss we managed to kill on the pet island; whereas my marksman made several EC and Lighthouse runs today and came away without a single blue.

    Speaking of auto party I wonder if the server would put you in a random squad with those you've blacklisted.
  • devonty
    devonty Posts: 0
    edited March 2011
    PWI the clerics and barbs took the best loot because of the charms. If they didn't use charms and you let them take the best loot then it's your own fault stop QQing on a forum for a different game nobody cares

    Priests here still have the highest cost per instance well depending on the party sometimes they'll hardly need to use anything but in general. But then pots cost next to nothing and even if they are broke they can make them so there is no need really for them to get first pick.

    Sometimes I've had horrible groups for stuff and used like 100 pot's and actually thought about lying and saying i ran out of pots :p

    Problem goes away at higher level though since people don't queue anymore so you'll go with guildies friends or at least people who know what they are doing

    Also lol at the guy with the bard healer in EC, bard's don't heal till level 30 so either they wasn't healing or they were higher level than the dungeon
  • ussichu
    ussichu Posts: 36 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Bard uses more MP if he's there. Priest only heals when people have a dent in their HP unlike when they solo heal or with vamp support.
  • edi
    edi Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    To clear one thing, almost every class can be leecher in dungeons. But if pt is ok, everybody ends up with similar expenses. Ask dark vamp about his mp consumption or Sin that spams skills like crazy.
    There is no priority in taking drops and its good choice. Class related rolling is working very nice. Only real advantage for healers/tanks is that they r 1st wanted classes in pt, ofc if dungeon rly requires their presence.
    When u decide to do any gear dungeon/instance, there is always a risk that u will end up with nothing valuable in ur inventory. Its the risk everybody takes. Lot of times whole run ends up with nothing but a **** equipment.
    So there r 2 possible scenarios. In one u go with ur guild and everything u dont need or already have, u share with ur guildies. The other one is called random party. I cant find nothing positive in that cuz it can end up rly bad and even with quarell among party members.
    About priority for rolling. Imagine u do 3*Welkins and 2 times soul crystal lvl3 drops. Imagine both times priest take it. Would u go for another run?
    I think this system is good as it is.
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