Whats up with the lousy stealth in this game?

magicguy134
magicguy134 Posts: 1 Arc User
edited March 2011 in Assassin Discussion
Ok so i just started playing as an assasin and i hav no complaints about the game or the class except for the stealth. Why can you not use the stealth unless ur in pvp, i mean it doesnt SAY its a pvp based game so it makes no sense. (and i dont like pvp because no matter wat ur lvl or how good u r someones always gonna kick ur a**)

P.S. to all you jacked-up monkeys out there ripping on the assasin class do not post on this thread because the assasin is a great class if you build it right except for this one thing that i really dont understand

If this is the case then wats the point of having a stealth class or of using 1
Post edited by magicguy134 on
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Comments

  • tergola
    tergola Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    The developers have just made stealth unable in PvE to be easier for them to build the AI engines, instances organizations and stuff... If you play other games where there is a stealth class (that works in PvE, like Aion, Perfect World...) you will see players using this abillity to skip rooms of mobs in instances and even to solo them. PWE team took it off from Forsaken World to make us stay all day in a fkn instance like zoombies that don't have anything better to do of our lives.
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  • npramirez
    npramirez Posts: 78 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I'm fine with mobs seeing us. That is tolerable. However, I have many beefs with the stealth system and I've even made a post before. Here are the complaints:

    1. Pets can see us. All players have pets. Therefore, everyone can see us.
    2. Stealth has a duration. We can only stay stealthed for 30ish seconds and then we are screwed.
    3. Cooldown on stealth. Remove it.
    4. Cast-time on stealth. It should be instant.

    Stealth is the trademark of Assassins. When the stealth-mechanics are bogus, so is the class. Wake up PWE.
  • jeffyylicious
    jeffyylicious Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    npramirez wrote: »
    I'm fine with mobs seeing us. That is tolerable. However, I have many beefs with the stealth system and I've even made a post before. Here are the complaints:

    1. Pets can see us. All players have pets. Therefore, everyone can see us.
    2. Stealth has a duration. We can only stay stealthed for 30ish seconds and then we are screwed.
    3. Cooldown on stealth. Remove it.
    4. Cast-time on stealth. It should be instant.

    Stealth is the trademark of Assassins. When the stealth-mechanics are bogus, so is the class. Wake up PWE.

    This.
  • redwingpixie
    redwingpixie Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    tergola wrote: »
    The developers have just made stealth unable in PvE to be easier for them to build the AI engines, instances organizations and stuff... If you play other games where there is a stealth class (that works in PvE, like Aion, Perfect World...) you will see players using this abillity to skip rooms of mobs in instances and even to solo them. PWE team took it off from Forsaken World to make us stay all day in a fkn instance like zoombies that don't have anything better to do of our lives.
    npramirez wrote: »
    I'm fine with mobs seeing us. That is tolerable. However, I have many beefs with the stealth system and I've even made a post before. Here are the complaints:

    1. Pets can see us. All players have pets. Therefore, everyone can see us.
    2. Stealth has a duration. We can only stay stealthed for 30ish seconds and then we are screwed.
    3. Cooldown on stealth. Remove it.
    4. Cast-time on stealth. It should be instant.

    Stealth is the trademark of Assassins. When the stealth-mechanics are bogus, so is the class. Wake up PWE.

    Well having a sin to skip parts of intances would mean a guanteed spot on the party..like prot and priest would also mean its easier to play but i noticed in pvp theres a dely in which u can still attk the sin before they are gone uno just as the cast the steath and go ghost like then poof gone.

    pets following is why sins need it working in pve or at least before pve combat or somthing since pets follow mob AIs....kinda useless in pvp isnt it now? duration shouldnt be to long id say 1min max from 30 when u lv or talent it.

    CD should be half the duration or maybe the same time but not 0...and cast should be instant i agree.


    btw sins in aion cant cloak while mobs attk them since they can see u.....i think thats been updated in 2.1 lol so no hidy from mobs =(
    D-D-Disconnect-And-Self-Destruct-One-Bullet-At-A-Time
  • ursumtl
    ursumtl Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    yeah, reading through this thread I can see the brainless drones playing (and doing well) a sin in PWI. Of course you want skills like PWI, that's the most absurd, overpowered dumb a$$ Assassin class ever existed in a MMORPG.
  • grimspank
    grimspank Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ok so i just started playing as an assasin and i hav no complaints about the game or the class except for the stealth. Why can you not use the stealth unless ur in pvp, i mean it doesnt SAY its a pvp based game so it makes no sense. (and i dont like pvp because no matter wat ur lvl or how good u r someones always gonna kick ur a**)

    P.S. to all you jacked-up monkeys out there ripping on the assasin class do not post on this thread because the assasin is a great class if you build it right except for this one thing that i really dont understand

    If this is the case then wats the point of having a stealth class or of using 1


    You say an assassin cannot stealth in pve? lmfao.. surely you cannot be serious?.. thats the most lame, idiot piece of information about this game i've heard yet..

    Tell me your joking? lol.. I need a drink, this is hilarious.. stealthless assassin (i'll never play assassin now)
  • fru1tman
    fru1tman Posts: 34 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    For stealth the cast time should be instant but the stealth itself should be delayed (just like fading) i.e. 2-3 sec after casting i think its a pretty nice balance since killing an assasin that just goes poof in the middle of the fight is simply annoying but at the same time it annoying as an assasin that has to stand in one spot doing nothing to go stealth. the 30 sec duration is ok its a pretty long time when u play games
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  • eaoode
    eaoode Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    OMG. Stop the QQing plz. If you were a real sin you wouldn't need stealth. That's just a noob way to pk and gank. If you were a real sin, you would get some skillz.. (not skills) and really play your class. PvE wise... its just cheap and distasteful.
  • edi
    edi Posts: 339 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Without stealth, sin is useless. But even its not available in PvE, u can take advantage of it.
    Most annoying thing about Sin is pet. Why would I need foking pet when it shows my position? That should be fixed asap. And also those few buged talent in Edge tree that r not working at all.
  • bhimz0
    bhimz0 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    no cool down in stealth for assasins..r u serious?
    it would be like pw ..just add a mana charm and voila! u got a godly character.

    sins r not all about stealth. they r about stealth mixed with crits, evasion, poison dots and extremely fast dps and if possible stuns or other few cc.

    it is an assassin not a warrior where you have to just stand and hit. it needs surprise battle entry, dots, enemy lock down , strategic skill chains and fast dps and lots of crits.

    if you are relying alot on stealth..you are not using sins to their potential.

    although i agree the stealth system should be made a little better or atleast make it usable on instances. otherwise we would never feel any STRONG need to ask sins to join for instances since other stuff like tanking, dps, dots can be done by other classes pretty efficiently as well
  • blackyojimbo
    blackyojimbo Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    QQ stealth is too short
    QQ stealth has a too long cooldown
    QQ mobs can see me in stealth
    QQ stealth isn't OP like in ...

    go play hide and seek because obviously you just suck at playing an assassin in forsaken world :D
  • scardahero
    scardahero Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ursumtl wrote: »
    yeah, reading through this thread I can see the brainless drones playing (and doing well) a sin in PWI. Of course you want skills like PWI, that's the most absurd, overpowered dumb a$$ Assassin class ever existed in a MMORPG.

    This^
  • sarahbellezza
    sarahbellezza Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    To the guy who complained his pet gives him away in stealth... lol....? Call it back then sheesh... not very smart huh.
    Sins dont NEEd stealth regardless, they have it in here. PVE wise you dont need it at all... unless you are trying to skip mobs in instances.. which beats the purpose of the instance and is why pwe did that.

    Why do you need to hide from other players in pvE? Stalker status...
    And i agree with that one guy earlier.. PLZ dont make this game like PWI, keep the sins on level with the other classes.
  • francosanchez
    francosanchez Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    To the guy who complained his pet gives him away in stealth... lol....? Call it back then sheesh... not very smart huh.
    Sins dont NEEd stealth regardless, they have it in here. PVE wise you dont need it at all... unless you are trying to skip mobs in instances.. which beats the purpose of the instance and is why pwe did that.

    Why do you need to hide from other players in pvE? Stalker status...
    And i agree with that one guy earlier.. PLZ dont make this game like PWI, keep the sins on level with the other classes.

    Alright, first thing is first. Any time that a class mechanic isn't working... That's a problem. It would be like taking Crackshot away from the marksman. Or gimping it completely.

    Second thing. Stealth can have it's uses in PVE. Whether it's cloaking and going over and spiking high priority targets (such as a healer mob) or incapacitating/isolating a mob. By removing stealth from an Assassin in a PVE you take a way alot of the skill required to play an Assassin effectively. And you just turn them into skill spambots on the front line. And I don't know about you, but I would rather use a warrior for that.
  • ikgamejou
    ikgamejou Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    why you all QQing about the stealth is good

    the stealth is made for Suprise attack not for getting away easy or im i wrong i dont think so
    even i did go dark tree and got a 2nd stealth skill that can be used in combat (dont know if all tree's get that skill) and btw the assassin is not meant to be OP because they got Stealth

    My playing style = Go stealth ( Pets cant see you know because user dident target you [target disapears wen going stealth] so they dont have there pet on you yet) Start with a Stun / sleep or what ever get those Orbs Up befor they can do Dmg and Crit them out with your Finishing Skills (Feel free to tell me something better).


    Grtz Fiix
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    Class : Assassin
    Tree : Dark
    Guild : None
    Name : Fiix[/COLOR]
  • bruzah
    bruzah Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    without a good stealth an assassin is nothing more than a tank without the hp... THAT'S why it should be fixed...

    no one cares whether you think stealth is cheap, or blah blah blah... why don't we all just play tanks and mages, that sounds like a diverse and fun game...

    stealth needs to be a toggle.. i could care less if it works in pve, but it shouldn't be crippled as much as it is especially considering it's pvp specific...

    pets should also stealth....

    if you're not going to make stealth more worth while then remove it all together and balance the class better... i've seen games do things like teleports to replace it, etc...

    if you're going to have a mechanic, do it right or don't do it at all.. i guarantee you guys will NEVER hear the end of it if it's left as is...

    like i said, i understand the pve thing, that's fine... i can say from experience i've always snuck past things i shouldn't be able to, and i thought it was cheesy while i was doing it, so really the pve thing is a welcome change...

    but NOT the timer, cooldown, and pet sticking out like a sore thumb... make a talent to stealth the pet if you have to, but do something...

    i am NOT biased either, i play all sorts of classes, and have been killed by my fair share of stealthers... thing is when you understand all the classes that's when you can really pvp, and i personally like stealther classes in the game whether i am currently playing them or not... it adds a dimension to an otherwise 2 dimensional mechanic.

    if you think stealther classes are overpowered, then you don't know how to play.

    the real "op" classes in rpgs are tanks, healers, and mages.... and any hybrids or combination of those 3....
  • palynzer
    palynzer Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ursumtl wrote: »
    yeah, reading through this thread I can see the brainless drones playing (and doing well) a sin in PWI. Of course you want skills like PWI, that's the most absurd, overpowered dumb a$$ Assassin class ever existed in a MMORPG.

    You fkng right.
    Poor sins..they cant live if the **** skill dont work to run with their moms...QQ :D
  • amradio
    amradio Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Imo stealth should only be used to launch a surprise attack. If you have to use it in the midst of battle, your attack failed and you should just (1) run away, or (2) die. And for everyone complaining about pets not being stealthed, what assassin in his right mind would try to sneak up on somebody with a wolf following him around? Put the pet AWAY. You dont need the stupid pet for pvp anyways, because you are not intending to fight your target very long (you shouldnt be). A great run would be: Stealth > Surprise attack > spam skills > target dies or dies very shortly after.

    If that doesn't happen you need to cut your losses and run the heck away. Some sins are great 1v1 and face to face...but ideally speaking you want to avoid that situation in pvp. The only reason you'd allow that kind of 1v1 situation is for bragging rights. Otherwise just run around, pick a target, stealth, gank them, and keep it movin.

    Arena pvp is a different story though, as theres less room to go unnoticed. In that case you need to be very good at 1v1 duels or you'll just get owned. Theres not a whoooole lot of room to go surprise attack in arena, so it requires a different set of skills to be successful.

    Either way all of this to say stealth should not be a spammable skill
  • endless013
    endless013 Posts: 234 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    eaoode wrote: »
    OMG. Stop the QQing plz. If you were a real sin you wouldn't need stealth. That's just a noob way to pk and gank. If you were a real sin, you would get some skillz.. (not skills) and really play your class. PvE wise... its just cheap and distasteful.

    "real" sins use stealth constantly. Mind you they arent invisible ghosts like PWI but with all the lurking in the shadows and not making noise, snipeing off of rooftops and what not. Sins are constant stealth, infact I'm willing to bet if any mmo made a sin that could lurk around and one shot things like a "real sin" you'd be the first to QQ about how "OP" the big bad sin is...
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  • espawndeil
    espawndeil Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Stealth > Deadly Chaser >(Optional Shadow Protection + damage skill) (Insert your useual combat here)....
  • blastemhardblastemfast
    blastemhardblastemfast Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    ok here is my input. not having the skill work in pve takes away the use of it on a pve server. it should and needs to be fixed. i mean an easy fix could be to make it so the monsters that are say 5+ lvls higher than urslef can see u but anything ur lvl and lower cant. that way ppl can stop QQing about how ppl can run through dungeons and sht. oooor, u could make it like in pwi for TT where u HAVE to kill the mobs, if u dont kill enough mobs the boss is super powerful. that way there would be no point in stealthing through the dungeon like that.
  • amradio
    amradio Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ok here is my input. not having the skill work in pve takes away the use of it on a pve server. it should and needs to be fixed. i mean an easy fix could be to make it so the monsters that are say 5+ lvls higher than urslef can see u but anything ur lvl and lower cant. that way ppl can stop QQing about how ppl can run through dungeons and sht. oooor, u could make it like in pwi for TT where u HAVE to kill the mobs, if u dont kill enough mobs the boss is super powerful. that way there would be no point in stealthing through the dungeon like that.

    There is no reason to stealth in pve ever. Seriously. You still get bonus dmg hitting out of stealth so theres really no point. My only gripe about stealth is that its wayyyy too short. I think it should be a stance like the warrior stances with the same cooldown it has already. Honestly if they kept everything about stealth the same minus its duration it'd be a looooot better. Thats just a minor gripe though, no biggie really.
  • blastemhardblastemfast
    blastemhardblastemfast Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    amradio wrote: »
    There is no reason to stealth in pve ever. Seriously. You still get bonus dmg hitting out of stealth so theres really no point. My only gripe about stealth is that its wayyyy too short. I think it should be a stance like the warrior stances with the same cooldown it has already. Honestly if they kept everything about stealth the same minus its duration it'd be a looooot better. Thats just a minor gripe though, no biggie really.

    well say ur trying to head somewhere and there is a boss in the way or something and u cont avoid it unless u use stealth. but seeing as mobs can still see u u either have to fight it or wait till it moves away. i hoped i explaned that right
  • amradio
    amradio Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    well say ur trying to head somewhere and there is a boss in the way or something and u cont avoid it unless u use stealth. but seeing as mobs can still see u u either have to fight it or wait till it moves away. i hoped i explaned that right

    Umm just run by it? Everyone else has to do that why not sins? Thats why I'm saying theres no point to stealth in pve, except to abuse mob ai. All I hear is ppl QQ'ing about not having an unfair advantage like they're used to. If stealth worked in pve then sins would be able to farm places other ppl can't farm, go where other ppl can't go, and otherwise abuse mob mechanics into obtaining stuff they shouldnt be strong enough to get.

    If you see a boss, run by it. If you can't run by it, kill it. If you can't kill it, you shouldnt be going that way anyway.
  • crimsonflak
    crimsonflak Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I completely agree with the OP. I dont know about the "pwi overpowered" stealth that you guys are talking about, but i have played a lot of games that have stealth characters, and they're usually what i'm drawn to.

    Why not take the time to add a flag to monsters? I dont think all monsters should see us, but i also dont think all monsters should Not see us. Make it play along with the game.

    Example: Crab hunters in Lighthouse, those things have some big aggro range eh? I really like that. A wolf type creature that sniffs out crabs, that can sniff out players. This would be the type of creature i would expect to see me hidden (depending on how much higher level i am, along with how much i have improved my stealth). The pirate snipers, they have good eyes to be snipers, they should see me too. Now some of the other pirates with an eyepatch? Yeah i think i should be able to sneak passed them.

    Shadow/dark skill tree has a skill to reduce the time of the stealth skill on the first row. I thought cool! Let me put a point into that and ill be able to stay stealthed. Wrong. Stealth skill is a toggle, i try to cast before i'm visible, and all i do is make myself visible.

    Also, why isnt there a toggle button for summon/dismiss pets that we can put on skillbar?

    Whats the point of Dark/Shadow skill tree if we aren't supposed to use stealth?
  • aud10slave47
    aud10slave47 Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    npramirez wrote: »
    i'm Fine With Mobs Seeing Us. That Is Tolerable. However, I Have Many Beefs With The Stealth System And I've Even Made A Post Before. Here Are The Complaints:

    1. Pets Can See Us. All Players Have Pets. Therefore, Everyone Can See Us.
    2. Stealth Has A Duration. We Can Only Stay Stealthed For 30ish Seconds And Then We Are Screwed.
    3. Cooldown On Stealth. Remove It.
    4. Cast-time On Stealth. It Should Be Instant.

    Stealth Is The Trademark Of Assassins. When The Stealth-mechanics Are Bogus, So Is The Class. Wake Up Pwe.

    ..this
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  • lordveer
    lordveer Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    First of all, the stealth cooldown can be quickly taken down to nearly non-existent for the cost of 2 talent points in dark mastery so to claim the cooldown is too much when we have two ways of entering stealth is pointless.

    Secondly stealth has been balanced the way it has for a reason, firstly with pvp in mind, no more staying in stealth indefinatley meaning you use stealth as a tactical choice rather than a crutch, it also dissuades PK'ers from camping in stealth in groups of Aggro mobs waiting to gank the first person that shows up looking to kill the mobs for a quest (witches and concubines in the desert is a good example)

    It has also been balanced so it doesn't work for PvE so that sins do not get to use stealth as an unfair advantage (no use denying it, we all know its true) of being able to access mobs and areas that would be otherwise unaccessable without a group, it also heavily deters botting and farming, since most bots/farmers are usually sin classes due to there ability to have access to stealth and therefore get to mobs/bosses that drop desirable loot and farm them.

    And just because it doesnt work on mobs does not mean that stealth is useless on a PvE server, there are still going to be guild base wars to consider and the damage buff still works even if the mobs can see you so its still handy for first strikes and grouping.


    To add: Guild Wars had an Assassin class that did not use "mmo" stealth at all and it was actually a breath of fresh air to play, and if built right one of the most deadily class choices in the entire game and AC: Brotherhood online does not have "invisi" stealth either, yet in both of those games I've always managed perfectly fine, wouldn't have anything to do with the fact that the "Crutch" Sins are a lot more exposed when you take away perma "invisi" stealth would it??
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  • crimsonflak
    crimsonflak Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    lordveer wrote: »
    First of all, the stealth cooldown can be quickly taken down to nearly non-existent for the cost of 2 talent points in dark mastery so to claim the cooldown is too much when we have two ways of entering stealth is pointless?

    Who cares if theres no cooldown? Its a toggle, you click it while stealthed and youre visible, any class with an aoe skill knows where you are now. You wait for it to wear off and youre visible before you recast.

    Adding points to Swift Stalk is a waste. If a player aoe's and gets you out of stealth, youre in combat, you cant use that stealth anymore. So whats the point of reducing the cooldown?

    Claiming that stealth cooldown time makes it pointless to complain about, when the skill is a toggle, seems pointless to me.

    Sorry, after reading your opening statement, i couldnt be bothered to read the rest.
  • lordveer
    lordveer Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Who cares if theres no cooldown? Its a toggle, you click it while stealthed and youre visible, any class with an aoe skill knows where you are now. You wait for it to wear off and youre visible before you recast.

    Adding points to Swift Stalk is a waste. If a player aoe's and gets you out of stealth, youre in combat, you cant use that stealth anymore. So whats the point of reducing the cooldown?

    Claiming that stealth cooldown time makes it pointless to complain about, when the skill is a toggle, seems pointless to me.

    Sorry, after reading your opening statement, i couldnt be bothered to read the rest.

    No need to appologise for being an intollerable WoW Rogue player thats never played any other Assassin class, but hey the whining worked in WoW so >.>

    And You'll have to excuse my sarcasm, not got much patience for players that want everything from the click of a button, demand a skill to change to the way they want it, yet refuse to actually read answers as to why a mechanic is the way it is.
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  • crimsonflak
    crimsonflak Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    lordveer wrote: »
    No need to appologise for being an intollerable WoW Rogue player thats never played any other Assassin class, but hey the whining worked in WoW so >.>

    And You'll have to excuse my sarcasm, not got much patience for players that want everything from the click of a button, demand a skill to change to the way they want it, yet refuse to actually read answers as to why a mechanic is the way it is.

    Your statement about the cooldown, was shot down, so you attack me and call me a wow rogue and im complaining?

    Sure seems like either A: you dont understand the assassin you play on FW, B: you dont play an assassin at all, thats why you dont know how stealth works, C: you dont play one, you dont know stealth is a toggle, youre upset because you get owned by rogues in WoW so you hate them in every game.

    Unfair advantage in PvE ? Seriously? Do me a favor, run LH with a lvl 60 mage as the tank, and then run LH with a 60 Sin and tell me which run is quicker. The mage can run half the instance and then just aoe everything to death right before a boss fight, yet i dont see any threads of you complaining about unfair pve elements.

    Basically after reading your entire post, i see anger stemming from wow rogues, i see you like stealth classes that dont have stealth, you dont understand stealthin FW, you feel all stealth is a crutch, am i missing anything?

    Please, when people are asking for stealth on FW assassins to be improved, dont tell them to waste skill points on a skill that only allows them to remove themselves from stealth sooner.