How the software industry actually works

I am growing increasingly tired of reading thread after thread of people bashing Domino for things that he has absolutely ZERO control over. As a software engineer who’s been in the industry for almost 20 years, I’d like to do my best to educate you all on how the software lifecycle works.

When ANY piece of software is released, it WILL contain bugs. We all know that FW is plagued by many annoying issues that have been around for a long, long time. Software engineers write code. QA reviews code and finds bugs, which are then submitted for Engineering to fix. Then there is Product Management, which sets the roadmap and timelines for releasing updated software, including new features and bugfixes.

QA does not fix bugs. Community managers do not fix bugs. Engineering fixes bugs, but at the direction of Product Management. So if any of you people want to complain about something, please complain to PWE Product Management.

And now, it gets even MORE complicated, because PWE doesn’t actually CREATE the code for Forsaken World. It relies on Wanmei, which is in China. This adds even more layers of **** to deal with in terms of differences in language, culture, and hours.

And THEN you have the issue of personnel turnover. It is quite unlikely that the original devs of FW are even around anymore. People get new jobs and move on. New engineers are brought in to a heaping mess of code that they have to digest and figure out in order to keep the software moving forward. Every single new feature of a software product introduces yet more bugs. To be quite honest, the fact that this game has only had 2 rollbacks with a playerbase this size is nothing short of remarkable.

Bottom line is this… The software industry is a complicated beast, and as annoying as the bugs may be, it does not help AT ALL to crucify the only GM in this game who has given a flip for more than 6 months. In fact, Domino is our SINGLE WINDOW into what’s happening with this game.

Here’s what we can expect of Domino, and what he has delivered outstandingly in my opinion. Updates, information, and insight into what’s coming next. He relays what is important to US. We have no visibility into Product Management. He is our advocate.

If you want to report a bug, that is fantastic. Report a bug. I am certain that it will get on the roadmap AT SOME POINT, but can we PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, put an end to flaming Domino thinking he has any control over the situation whatsoever? Imagine if you had his position, and people acted this way to you. Have some empathy, people, seriously...

And for the people hurling the most absolutely abhorrent insults I’ve ever heard at Domino, or ANYONE for that matter, because of BUGS IN A FREE TO PLAY GAME? You should all be completely ashamed of yourselves, and honestly as far as I’m concerned, you have ZERO credibility, because you obviously have no freaking idea how the real world works.
IAmOldGregg - Lionheart
Lv100 Human Assassin
~Starlight~

Comments

  • anyadpicsaja
    anyadpicsaja Posts: 226 Arc User
    I for one, do not flame him. But u can be sure i contact him a lot and its usually not about wonderland.

    I understand he dosn't have much control over things, but since we dont have direct contact to the CN devs or PWE upper management, all we can do is tell the problems to the only person who can pass the word along and thats Domino.

    That means when someone is upset about something, he/she yells to the only person who at least have a chance to do something about that particular problem.

    You cant blame most people for their tone after that much problem this game had, have and will have, until PWE decide to do something about it and we can see the results and thats not the case atm,at least not on visible terms. When we do see the change and things improving on a good rate no one will QQ besides the ones who only do it for personal reasons.
    giphy.gif
  • sirjir
    sirjir Posts: 114 Arc User
    To actually add onto these comments, from past mentions of the code, it seems there's even legal and internal rules for what code can and cannot be shifted and how, adding even further complications.

    Gregg does make a point - Domino is QA, going far and way beyond his station to even interact and put on this stuff. He has about as much control as us with some of the things he interacts with - his only advantage is he can speak directly to SOME of the people in the office. That doesn't mean it will work, it just means we have someone who is in our community and empathetic to our plights actually on the inside. Bashing him and making him dislike hopping online and into forums seems a bit more counter-intuitive at that point.

    Report bugs but we really do have to have patience - I know we have been. Thing is, we're stuck needing to have more. It's what it is.
    Iolar - Level 100 Assassin of Lionheart's Avatar

  • senrin
    senrin Posts: 824 Arc User
    Following your reasoning, Gregg, we should be grateful to play for free. Well, imo the cashers should be the most upset if something doesn't fit in game. IF they like waiting ages and the loss of players is not an issue, then, no problem at all, really.

    But - hey - free to play does NOT mean bad quality game. The model is build in a way you need both sides (let's call like that): cashers and non cashers. If the game loses cashers, no profit, game closes. If the game loses non cashers, game is empty, game closes anyways.

    You can say what you want, but it's universally aknowledged some issues have been around for months, really. And we also hardly see any active communication with us, the Community.

    It's also kind of funny we barely have any update or fix or ban BUT we never miss a weekly boutique update!

    -----

    It's not like defending nor attacking the game, but - regardless of the problem you may have enlighted us developing software - if the company can't be competitive adapting to the market, who is to blame, really?

    Now it's not like 10 years ago: we have tons of ftp games on many devices and luring players is important, as it is keeping them for long.

    As a company manager, I would be ashamed to keep running a game with such few resources invested: seems like 2 part time freshman engineers + Domino only for a whole game, which is kinda poor.
  • unusualsuspect1
    unusualsuspect1 Posts: 694 Arc User
    I think that Domino, being the publically visible face of PWE to the playerbase unfairly bears the brunt of player frustration. He has a thankless job, and yet he does it admirably.

    As both a software engineer, and as a gamer, I do understand the software life cycle very well, and the main issue here is that Wanmei simply doesn't give two hoots about the bugs in their software. PWI (Perfect World International - based in China), which is the parent company that owns PWE (Perfect World Entertainment - based in the USA) is merely a publisher of the Forsaken World title through some agreement with Wanmei. PWE has overlaid freemium and some cash shop mechanisms atop the FW title, but that is pretty much all they they control directly, and it is also why the playerbase can very clearly see that the only bugs that ever seem to get fixed are cash shop bugs. The main reason for that though, is because that is one of the few things directly within PWE's control. That basically IS what PWE do. They run the cash shop around the FW title that they licensed from Wanmei. PWI however is where the main product management directives come from, and their level of disconnect from the player base is very frustratingly obvious.

    On top of all of this Wanmei develop and extend FW to suit a primarily homogenous gaming audience within a fairly small range of time zones. It is quite clear to see that they have very minimal understanding for the impact of a world-wide timezone audience, and also have little to no care that PWI/PWE's cash shop mechanisms result in it being absurdly expensive to achieve the level of character power required to complete the end game content. That's not so say that some classes can't do it (PvE content) reasonably cheaply (eg. Aegis War, Divine Priest, Light Bard), but on the whole they are still standing on the shoulders of a pack of cash shop whales.

    So we have Wanmei that is disconnected from PWI, which is PWI's fault for not enforcing better support terms, but this is also possibly on PWI for not wanting to pay for the support that the game needs from Wanmei. We then have PWE, which largely has its hands tied by PWI, and then we have Domino who gets to deal with all that mess of all-too-convenient absolvement of accountability at every step of the way for any bug that the player base experiences.

    It is all a complete mess.

    We've all seen that any number of other Tier 1 pay-to-play titles that are both run and developed by the same company (I won't mention names, but they're all well known) and how well they do. They do well, because the company taking the money IS the same company that is responsible for fixing bugs, AND the employees have a direct line of contact to the developers.

    The issue is that we've all, however unwittingly, chosen to support an insane business model in playing FW that is designed purely to milk money from the player base while setting up multiple levels of "shielding" for accountability at every step of the way between the player base and the actual developers. It's a business model that only works because we, as a player base, are silly enough to continue supporting it.

    ...and almost NONE of that mess has anything to do with Domino
  • buffybomb
    buffybomb Posts: 182 Arc User

    I am growing increasingly tired of reading thread after thread of people bashing Domino for things that he has absolutely ZERO control over. As a software engineer who’s been in the industry for almost 20 years, I’d like to do my best to educate you all on how the software lifecycle works.

    When ANY piece of software is released, it WILL contain bugs. We all know that FW is plagued by many annoying issues that have been around for a long, long time. Software engineers write code. QA reviews code and finds bugs, which are then submitted for Engineering to fix. Then there is Product Management, which sets the roadmap and timelines for releasing updated software, including new features and bugfixes.

    QA does not fix bugs. Community managers do not fix bugs. Engineering fixes bugs, but at the direction of Product Management. So if any of you people want to complain about something, please complain to PWE Product Management.

    And now, it gets even MORE complicated, because PWE doesn’t actually CREATE the code for Forsaken World. It relies on Wanmei, which is in China. This adds even more layers of **** to deal with in terms of differences in language, culture, and hours.

    And THEN you have the issue of personnel turnover. It is quite unlikely that the original devs of FW are even around anymore. People get new jobs and move on. New engineers are brought in to a heaping mess of code that they have to digest and figure out in order to keep the software moving forward. Every single new feature of a software product introduces yet more bugs. To be quite honest, the fact that this game has only had 2 rollbacks with a playerbase this size is nothing short of remarkable.

    Bottom line is this… The software industry is a complicated beast, and as annoying as the bugs may be, it does not help AT ALL to crucify the only GM in this game who has given a flip for more than 6 months. In fact, Domino is our SINGLE WINDOW into what’s happening with this game.

    Here’s what we can expect of Domino, and what he has delivered outstandingly in my opinion. Updates, information, and insight into what’s coming next. He relays what is important to US. We have no visibility into Product Management. He is our advocate.

    If you want to report a bug, that is fantastic. Report a bug. I am certain that it will get on the roadmap AT SOME POINT, but can we PLEASE, FOR THE LOVE OF GOD, put an end to flaming Domino thinking he has any control over the situation whatsoever? Imagine if you had his position, and people acted this way to you. Have some empathy, people, seriously...

    And for the people hurling the most absolutely abhorrent insults I’ve ever heard at Domino, or ANYONE for that matter, because of BUGS IN A FREE TO PLAY GAME? You should all be completely ashamed of yourselves, and honestly as far as I’m concerned, you have ZERO credibility, because you obviously have no freaking idea how the real world works.

    I like you, you're awesome. Thanks for this post :)
  • sabcia106
    sabcia106 Posts: 92 Arc User
    HEaring that from some random that has like 3 posts and has not been here for long is realy something now i will have to shut myself in basement beause i can not bash Domina for poor quality product from a company he works for, and there is almost no comunication with the other teams( look on Ask the devs topic when it was done and where are answers) But u prolly wont even show here anymore random Bobby.
  • buffybomb
    buffybomb Posts: 182 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    HEaring that from some random that has like 3 posts and has not been here for long is realy something now i will have to shut myself in basement beause i can not bash Domina for poor quality product from a company he works for, and there is almost no comunication with the other teams( look on Ask the devs topic when it was done and where are answers) But u prolly wont even show here anymore random Bobby.

    He joined August 2011, and he's well known over on Lionheart, so no, he's no random nobody.
  • sabcia106
    sabcia106 Posts: 92 Arc User
    buffybomb said:



    He joined August 2011, and he's well known over on Lionheart, so no, he's no random nobody.

    Well i dont know him so
  • senrin
    senrin Posts: 824 Arc User
    Well, let's be honest to the bone.

    People leave because there's no competition.

    Sure, taking ages to fix a bug is irritating at most, but if the core of the game is competition and now there's not anymore, that's the real issue.

    -----

    Oh, wait! LH instance fixed! Sure 100k players joining to explore a 5yo pve map...
  • tweety7777
    tweety7777 Posts: 16 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    buffybomb said:



    He joined August 2011, and he's well known over on Lionheart, so no, he's no random nobody.

    Well i dont know him so

    And who are you? O.o Lots of us have been playing for utterly eons...but don't bother with the senseless drivel/whining on these forums.
  • gregg1ep00
    gregg1ep00 Posts: 7 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    buffybomb said:



    He joined August 2011, and he's well known over on Lionheart, so no, he's no random nobody.

    Well i dont know him so
    I've been around for over 5 years and am very involved in the Lionheart community. I don't post on the forums often. The fact that you don't know me is irrelevant to this discussion. If you're not from Lionheart, we've likely run into each other in FF on occasion.

    I think that Domino, being the publically visible face of PWE to the playerbase unfairly bears the brunt of player frustration. He has a thankless job, and yet he does it admirably.

    (clipped for brevity)

    ...and almost NONE of that mess has anything to do with Domino

    Extremely well said, and you're exactly right. Thank you for the additional insight.

    The underlying point I'm trying to make is that we do ourselves a disservice by crucifying our single point of contact with PWE. Like unusualsuspect1 said, we really don't have any avenue to directly impact decisions by Wanmei, PWI, or PWE. Domino is our single point of contact, and as for his job duties, he consistently goes above and beyond.

    anyadpicsaja, sirjir, and senrin, I understand your arguments, and yes people will voice frustration, and that's to be expected. But it's one thing to voice frustration and quite another to verbally abuse someone. Just think about it -- if you were a community manager or QA engineer doing everything you can to increase community involvement and keep the game moving forward, and you are verbally assaulted for things beyond your control at every turn, how would that impact your future efforts?

    There is a way to get things done without resorting to flame fests directed at people that cannot directly impact your particular desired outcome. There's not a single person who has ever lived that was able to please everyone all the time. I'm not in any way saying that we shouldn't voice our concerns, I'm just saying that we should keep in mind the limitations, and it should NEVER reach the verbal assault level.
    IAmOldGregg - Lionheart
    Lv100 Human Assassin
    ~Starlight~
  • sabcia106
    sabcia106 Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited November 2016

    - if you were a community manager or QA engineer doing everything you can to increase community involvement and keep the game moving forward, and you are verbally assaulted for things beyond your control at every turn, how would that impact your future efforts?

    This is his **** job his getting payd for it, if he would not like that kind of things he would run away like our last Comunity MEnager was whitch i cant name on this forums, and about work related things if ur in the market of software development u may know this site where doors are made from glass and read about PWE how it looks from iside from thoes that did runaway from that company.

    And i will repeat my self its his **** job to keep up with all of this we cant write to enginering to fix it nor bash higer ups for doing poor job maintaining game they get money from idiots that pay for broken product so they are fine with it why fix something or add more resurces and improve when they will pay no matter what.
  • gregg1ep00
    gregg1ep00 Posts: 7 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    - if you were a community manager or QA engineer doing everything you can to increase community involvement and keep the game moving forward, and you are verbally assaulted for things beyond your control at every turn, how would that impact your future efforts?

    This is his **** job his getting payd for it, if he would not like that kind of things he would run away like our last Comunity MEnager was whitch i cant name on this forums, and about work related things if ur in the market of software development u may know this site where doors are made from glass and read about PWE how it looks from iside from thoes that did runaway from that company.

    And i will repeat my self its his **** job to keep up with all of this we cant write to enginering to fix it nor bash higer ups for doing poor job maintaining game they get money from idiots that pay for broken product so they are fine with it why fix something or add more resurces and improve when they will pay no matter what.
    It's actually not his job to fix anything. Support goes through bug reports and escalates. QA verifies bugs, generates steps to reproduce the issue, and escalates. It's product management's job to get bugfixes into the roadmap. Raging at Domino gains you absolutely nothing.
    IAmOldGregg - Lionheart
    Lv100 Human Assassin
    ~Starlight~
  • bbadggirll
    bbadggirll Posts: 24 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    - if you were a community manager or QA engineer doing everything you can to increase community involvement and keep the game moving forward, and you are verbally assaulted for things beyond your control at every turn, how would that impact your future efforts?

    This is his **** job his getting payd for it, if he would not like that kind of things he would run away like our last Comunity MEnager was whitch i cant name on this forums, and about work related things if ur in the market of software development u may know this site where doors are made from glass and read about PWE how it looks from iside from thoes that did runaway from that company.

    And i will repeat my self its his **** job to keep up with all of this we cant write to enginering to fix it nor bash higer ups for doing poor job maintaining game they get money from idiots that pay for broken product so they are fine with it why fix something or add more resurces and improve when they will pay no matter what.
    It is NOT his job to babysit or to clean up other people's mouths or to get them to act civil. Sorry, but you'll have to turn to personal responsibility for the awful things you say. Being employed is not license for being flamed.

    Dorkly.com, "How every awful video game thing was born". Look it up, because FW is linkaphobic.
  • sabcia106
    sabcia106 Posts: 92 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    its his **** job to keep up with all of this we cant write to enginering to fix it nor bash higer ups for doing poor job maintaining game they get money from idiots that pay for broken product so they are fine with it why fix something or add more resurces and improve when they will pay no matter what.


    It's actually not his job to fix anything. Support goes through bug reports and escalates. QA verifies bugs, generates steps to reproduce the issue, and escalates. It's product management's job to get bugfixes into the roadmap. Raging at Domino gains you absolutely nothing.

    WHere i wrote about him fixing bugs tell me pls tell me?

  • gregg1ep00
    gregg1ep00 Posts: 7 Arc User
    sabcia106 said:

    WHere i wrote about him fixing bugs tell me pls tell me?

    sabcia106 said:

    This is his **** job his getting payd for it, if he would not like that kind of things he would run away like our last Comunity MEnager was whitch i cant name on this forums, and about work related things if ur in the market of software development u may know this site where doors are made from glass and read about PWE how it looks from iside from thoes that did runaway from that company.

    And i will repeat my self its his **** job to keep up with all of this we cant write to enginering to fix it nor bash higer ups for doing poor job maintaining game they get money from idiots that pay for broken product so they are fine with it why fix something or add more resurces and improve when they will pay no matter what.

    I was having a hard time trying to follow this, so if I misunderstood what you were trying to articulate, I apologize. What I'm saying is that his job has nothing to do at all with bugs. There's a way to open support incidents for those, and it will be routed through the proper channels and escalated as I've described previously. Flogging Domino gets you nowhere. Go into any business and behave this way, and you'll be thrown out. Do you honestly think that the game will get any better whatsoever by running him off like our last "Comunity MEnager"?

    Several times I have said that he is our single window into PWE. Yes I'm sure he expects to have people report issues. But I think you'll find that presenting problems in a respectful way and having dignity for other human beings will get you a lot farther in life than verbally assaulting people and demanding results that they themselves cannot provide.
    IAmOldGregg - Lionheart
    Lv100 Human Assassin
    ~Starlight~
  • sabcia106
    sabcia106 Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    Sure it would work in a normal company, but PWE is not normal the provided broken produc that addicted ppl from false power and gave them [REDACTED] to show off, why they would touble fix things and add more staff when they will give ppl a charge promo and they will start paying like no tommorow for more false powers, whou normal would pay more for support when he can rack more by doing poorly and just suply pplayers with more orbs within orbs.
  • gregg1ep00
    gregg1ep00 Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2016
    sabcia106 said:

    Sure it would work in a normal company, but PWE is not normal the provided broken produc that addicted ppl from false power and gave them[REDACTED] to show off, why they would touble fix things and add more staff when they will give ppl a charge promo and they will start paying like no tommorow for more false powers, whou normal would pay more for support when he can rack more by doing poorly and just suply pplayers with more orbs within orbs.

    The argument that PWE "addicted" people is just silly. It is up to each one of us to continue playing the game. The number of bugs, CSers, etc is completely irrelevant. If people didn't want to stick around, they would take their cash and move on. Fact is that many people still enjoy the game despite the bugs. Yes they're annoying, and yes I too would like to see them fixed. But again, that's not up to Domino.
    IAmOldGregg - Lionheart
    Lv100 Human Assassin
    ~Starlight~
  • silnec
    silnec Posts: 248 Arc User
    In a nutshell, you guys want to bash, bash PWE, not Domino. Its that simple. Domino doing his job pretty well at this point. Too bad his employer, PWE, sucks.
    ⋆⋆⋆ SEPHMEISTER ⋆ Illyfue ⋆⋆⋆



    "this game is dying on all servers, wake the fk up" - Amarantos

    This is the truth. PWE does not care.


  • chibizombie89
    chibizombie89 Posts: 159 Community Moderator
    I know how it feels just being a "peon" in a sense to a company, especially if you are being the "voice" that interacts with everyone else. You get the wonderful job of taking in all the issues people state, moving them on up the ladder, just for those at the top to go "meh" and throw it back down. It gets frustrating. Then people ask questions that you just can't answer.

    It's just easy for people to throw him into the center of it because he's the one that's actually there. Actually reading, and (sometimes) responding to the mess. So it makes him the prime target.
    heialley_by_xchibi_zombiex-daq6r5u.jpg

    People assume that time is a strict progression of cause to effect, but actually, from a non-linear, non-subjective viewpoint - it's more like a big ball of wibbly wobbly, time-y wimey... stuff. - 10th Doctor

    Back from hiatus
  • senrin
    senrin Posts: 824 Arc User
    Personally I feel like talking to the game has a living being, not to any person behind the monitor "server side".

    Maybe that's why FW never answers me! :D
  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    I dont think i ever really bashd domino about the bugs, just about promises made that were not kept etc etc.. i bashed PWE as a company mostly.. and i stopped doing that a long time ago.. since i realized it was pointless anyways..

    now into what was written here.. at least on the first post..

    What's remarkable about having rollbacks?? lol
    I've played a ton of games that never had to do rollbacks.. because they were properly tested before going live with their patches.. and they were free 2 play too.. (i guess this is even more remarkable?) lol

    The population in this game is also a lot lower than those other games.. and right now its most likely just people that has nothing better to move on to.. or just don't have time or want to start over on a new game.. so they stick to this one since they have a lot invested in this game already (kinda like myself, even tho i don't really play anymore and i do play other games more, but yeah)

    So idk what's the remarkable part about having to do rollbacks with a few people..

    Maybe the remarkable part is doing it on an ancient game engine? idk.. Even Neverwinter has a better character management. I can tell you this because i was rolled back there once due to getting ****.. and they ACTUALLY rolled back ONLY 1 of my characters inventory to get back all of my gear and money.. and gave me back all the stuff that was stolen from my guild bank as well.. without any bug fuzz or hoours of game downtime.. or any problems.. unlike FW Rollbacks that have to be done on a server wide scale and with the game being down for hours, etc etc etc.. but this part is just because of the game engine being old as heck and not really the current engineers fault.. Even tho they did say one time that they were updating it in one of those big updates a looong time ago.. which never actually provided any visible changes anyways.. lel

    Idk if Domino is part of QA or just Social manager.. or Game moderator.. or whatever, i really don't remember.. the thing is he is the face of the team behind Forsaken World, whoever that team is made of, so it is kind of his job to talk to the people (their costumers) and take the blame if he has to, or point the blame and whoever is there to blame. Either way, he is being paid to do so, is not like he's a free2work employee, if im being paid to listen a bunch of people whine and cry.. i have to take it, i can't get paid to listen/communicate with the playerbase and then NOT listen to playerbase because they're mean to me..
    Not to mention that we can't communicate with anyone else because nobody else comes to the forums to talk about bugs or stuff like that.. so he has to take all the hatred and complaints he gets here and let, whoever is responsible for the **** ups, know that they're doing a **** job, every, ****, time..
    Btw im not saying that is a good thing to trash Domino all the time, but is not like we have to take all the **** and mess ups and just stay silent because **** it..
    Keeping all the rage/anger for having to deal with bugs inside just because you dont want to express your discomfort is bad for your health..

    Also this is not even new stuff that gets **** up.. is OLD stuff that keeps getting messed up.. EVERY damn patch.. i.e.: The CS lvl on the trinkets (which i think are fixed.. now, after years or getting messed up every damn big patch)

    Im pretty sure even new game companies don't make this kind of **** ups so often and always the same ****.. im pretty sure at least they know how to NOT **** up with the same bugs every single time they have a big patch coming to their games..


    Of course, raging at domino wont solve anything right at the moment but if we didn't rage at all im sure as hell that this game wouldn't get ANYTHING fixed.. im pretty sure they wouldn't EVEN know that there are bugs if people didn't come to the forums and publicly rage at the **** that gets broken over and over and over again..


    Now to end this note.. crabclaw was by far the best GM(or whatever this title means) this game ever had (also the first one, so probably not many remember him).. if there were bugs they would get fixed sooner rather than later.. and if there were exploiters they'd actually get banned accordingly.. some times permanently. He would communicate to people and deliver what was promised.
    Im not saying Domino is not doing a good job, he is, in his own way of doing things.. but he is definitely not the best this game has ever had, he is second next to crabclaw probably.. Unless u count a good GM by the amount of cash shop promotions that happen during their time as GM or the amount of compensations or the amount of login events.. and not the amount of fixes they push in the game in the time they promise or even at all..

  • sergei525
    sergei525 Posts: 9 Arc User
    I think Dom is doing the best he can with what he has. It is annoying to see people bash HIM for things that really are out of his control.


    Death is the destination we all share. No one has ever escaped it. And that is as it should be, because Death is very likely the single best invention of Life ...
    ~ XBloodsipperX ~

  • kumi
    kumi Posts: 114 Arc User
    I really think this should be sticky'd.
    Houseplant of Lionheart server
  • shadrim
    shadrim Posts: 1,040 Arc User
    edited December 2016


    And for the people hurling the most absolutely abhorrent insults I’ve ever heard at Domino, or ANYONE for that matter, because of BUGS IN A FREE TO PLAY GAME? You should all be completely ashamed of yourselves, and honestly as far as I’m concerned, you have ZERO credibility, because you obviously have no freaking idea how the real world works.

    Dear Sir, you may or may not be "software engineer" (no offence meant, this is internet...) but you clearly do lack some very important kind of insight how software marketing works.
    "Free to play" is never ever free and will never be. This is a marketing gag that is even more profiting than actual pay to play software while at the same time giving a sorry excuse why a customer "cannot" expect at least a minimum amount of quality.
    "Free to play" or better: "paid for by constant flow of micro transactions" is so much more profitable than any "honest" pay to play model that several publishers have already shifted their products from pay to play to "free" to play.

    So lets assume you unintentionally misread "free to play" for "freeware". Someone gets paid to run, program and maintain the game. Without cashflow this "free to play" product would not exist. If paid work gives a bad result, the customer is generally unhappy and tends to communicate this state of mind.

    There was a decent article on the register.co.uk about why software sucks more and more and its also the customers fault which clearly does apply to every piece of software where "quality management" has less to say than marketing.
    And while in gaming there surely is no harm done when the game crashes, there are other software appliances that MUST run correctly, even from day one.
    Anyone remembering old module based console games or diskette based computer games knows that software companies once put tons of effort in rooting out bugs before release, some virtue that has been neglected since internet patch illness has also befallen game consoles nowadays and since "test magazines" are reduced to be pure advert wastepaper.

    As for your assumptions how the internals from angered player to wanmei might be handled, your assumptions are as good as mine.
    All we can see and all that is of interest is the outcome of either civilized ticket (handled badly enough) or open posts.
    Who is this "general failure" and why is he reading my disc ?[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • senrin
    senrin Posts: 824 Arc User
    If FW has bugs and so on, even if free to install, you can complain.

    It's called feedback, back in time testers were paid for it.

    Now, not only bugs and delay on fixes are considered a standard due to the free to play model by most of the players, but pointing out the shadows of the code is labelled as negativity all over.

    We're left all alone and close to no reply to every serious question, from "when Arena fix?" to "when bound dragons unbound?".

    If they reply like "hey issue X fixed in Y months, K problem resolved in max H weeks", noone could have the right to complain.
  • lordmasaka
    lordmasaka Posts: 39 Arc User
    I get it, but that's not going to change. Someone has to be held accountable for the failures of this company, and unfortunately right now its domino, since he seems to be the face of all this, since we don't really hear from any of the developers. Its not like Blizzard or Riot where the devs are telling you that they're making changes to their game in a certain way and why, so that you're informed and you get some feedback. The devs here are Chinese.

    That's just how people work, they're going to look for someone to blame when things go bad so that they can put a face to the reason why they aren't getting what they want. You make it sound rosy and simple, because you have a background in software engineering, but you're going to discredit human nature being the phenomenon that it is, so you're not going to get it. Most of these gamers come to play, they don't have that insider background,

    It happens everywhere you go in this world, though. A hotel is doing poorly, they fire the management. A sports team doing badly? Fire the head coach. A game is making some ridiculous mistakes, and is poor in considering the needs of their player base besides how they can profit off of them? Then they're going to be looking for someone's head.

    Like I said, I understand, and no it isn't fair in the slightest, because he chose to take on a role that really he didn't have to, and he's trying to do it as best he can, even though its a pretty thankless job it seems like, but you're fighting human nature.

    Its like spitting into a fan that's blowing air your way, and trying to stay dry.

    At some point either the game is going to die, or PWE is going to step it up and start making some changes, but at no point are these people going to stop having the emotional response of blaming domino.