Elemental Warriors!

silnec
silnec Posts: 248 Arc User
Courtesy of a fellow player's comment I saw while checking out the forum. Thanks to unusualsuspect1.

Something needs to be done about elemental warriors in game. One class can't be such a pain in pvp.. like come on, why so imba?

Warriors (especially elemental) hands-down have the most benefits of all other classes on a like-for-like basis.

- The largest HP pool. If you think 200K hp goes by fast, just try playing a class that only has 130K instead.
- The second highest defense scores. Yes, defense does actually help to reduce damage in PvP.
- The highest attack scores in the game by a long way, which directly counters an opponent's defense, allowing them to pound for pound, hit harder against defenses.
- Masses of character controls, from silencing, interrupting, stunning, slowing
- Masses of control immunities, from when DU is up, to attacking/assaulting through controls if have sufficient rune energy.
- Hands down the highest damaging near-spammable AoE in the game in Slash-Storm with a low cast time. Wind Reaper's Sickle Assault doesn't even come close.
- The highest rate of control breaks in the game bar none. From Pray if human, stance switches which can be every 30s with good nature energy, soul devour, use of assault if have 90 energy, arena stones, and so on.
- Crazy crit-chance bonuses when DU is up (doubling of CC), and a 18% +0.4% per nature point CC bonus after an assault (with 35+ Nature energy). No other class, except for sins, gets anything like this.
- Near-spammable targetless AoE in Thunderous Cleave and Sword Cyclone allows to uncover and hit stealthed characters nearby, not to mention having Threatening Roar if Elemental which automatically de-stealths
- If Elemental and runed up, able to cast the dreaded blade of reflect every 63s for 18s duration that deals 160% of the warrior's attack score back to you that bypasses ALL defenses and resists, and this can be cast while controlled to deal with those pesky sins that surprise you

If any who plays a warrior doesn't feel like all of the above offers them enough benefits to deal with other classes, then just trying playing pretty much any other class and see for yourselves:

1) Most every other class, excepting protectors, do not have the ability to ignore ALL controls for periods at a time
2) Most every other class, excluding sins, does not get MASSIVE crit-chance bonuses that provides for guaranteed crits
3) Most every other class doesn't have a massive HP pool to survive the sins and other wars that you complain about
4) Most every other class counts the time between their control breaks in terms of minutes between each single one, not 6-10 per minute like warriors can get.
5) Aside from protectors, and even then it pales in comparison, don't have a reflect skill that will generally see players kill themselves on you without you needing to do anything else, before they kill you
6) Wind Reapers, Marksmen, Mages don't have an AoE mass-kill skill that is a patch on what Slash Storm will deal. They have skills that are in the ballpark, but still fall short, deal less damage, take longer to cast, and have a longer cool-down.
7) The majority of classes don't have a set of spammable target-less AoE skills, or stealth-revealing skills to destealth sins or hit them while stealthed.
8) Yes, some classes like bards, and vamps, get some limited control-immunities but it's not all-effects like what warriors can do, and they don't have masses upon masses of control breaks every minute like warriors have. Vamps can be controlled reasonably easily. Water bards are a challenge to control effectively, true, but they still don't have a patch on a warrior's ability to remove/deal with being controlled.

Warriors, in terms of their available PvP skill sets, are completely imbalanced with respect to every other class in the game, Reapers and Sins included. If you're being chewed up by a Reaper or a Sin, it's only 'cos they're playing their class better than you're playing your warrior, and they're just lucky that you're not playing your warrior to full effect. Alternately, they're just way better geared and cashed than you are.

⋆⋆⋆ SEPHMEISTER ⋆ Illyfue ⋆⋆⋆



"this game is dying on all servers, wake the fk up" - Amarantos

This is the truth. PWE does not care.


Comments

  • dosena14#7699
    dosena14#7699 Posts: 10 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Regarding HP. I've seen a priest with 200K HP. Vampire can get 200K HP so can many other classes.
  • known2figures
    known2figures Posts: 129 Arc User
    I do play a warrior, and I've played a sin, and it's not about them playing better, it's that anything, and everything in this game has 600% crit dmg plus, which kills people in this game faster than they can react. As for being a warrior it takes more funding than an average class to be slightly decent. As for all the cc? We waste most of it by even having to remove your silly stuns or silences from the get go, and that's from from all of the sneaky beaky sins/mms around, and then to use another stance, and then quickly switch back to our original stance, just to even deal with you, and before you know it we're already out of cc breaks. We easily drain our cc breaks faster than you think. As for the rune energy, that requires money, and luck...did I mention money?And it's well deserved once you reach that point too :open_mouth: However the only thing I will say is an overkill is the dark awakening, but that can easily be said for sins as well for they really don't need the big damage boost, one of that high calibur anyways....100% crit dmg gain at rank 10? (warrior), a large amount of increased attack with vi? (sin).

    If this is the same marksman complaining about warriors like I saw in the 12v12 last week, then shouldn't you be using the environment to your advantage anyways...like mages (which none of you seem to do) you're a ranged dps..attack behind trees, use hills that they can't assault you. in the mid? go in the water, and attack. You're practically asking for a quick death if you're standing in the open where we can just break cc, and assault you..
  • reborn1991
    reborn1991 Posts: 17 Arc User
    No class is ganked by 10 players in ff like wars are;
    We cant do much vs mana drain/cc classes;
    In arena we are kited perma transformed by mages;
    We are a close range class, so we cant reach a 50 meters darkpact demon if its on hiding on a tree, same goes for others mm/mage/priest, assault doesnt work on colision;
    We cant kill tanky endgame priests, unless we turn DU its a *5min skill*, 90% of wars relly on that skill;
    Lot of classes got anti bleed imune to reflect, also prot ref is way better;
    Crit dependant, if we dont have high critchance we are done for good, and we have assault cc bonus;
    We only got a silence skill easily removed.

    In my opinion sins and mms are way stronger atm,in many ways but its just an opinion.
  • antonieta#0908
    antonieta#0908 Posts: 11 Arc User
    Who made that post clearly never played a warrior or played against crappy characters only. High HP means nothing... Even a blood war with 270k hp will get 1-2 shot if he has less than 300k crit defense. The only thing broken in this game is the gap between crit defense one can get vs crit damage, even with arena gear there are enough buffs to overpower it, like warrior dark DU with 100% crit damage, which will be nerfed to 80% in a future patch, still op coupled with 30-40% extra from SoW talent + 15% passive from bloodwar tree.

    Warriors are a joke of a class to play against as a ranged class who actually plays their character well. Good luck fighting a decent ice mage or any decent crit def build, even dark vamps are better. In this game the cc spam rate is higher than the rate you can remove CC as a warrior, imagine if warriors didn't have any cc rate... would be the most useless class ever without a chance. Pray doesn't even remove slow debuffs, those are the most annoying, water bards, venom sins, dark vamps, almost anything perma slow you, and as a melee you get rekt if you want to get orbs. Besides, almost every class has some damage immunity or combo breaker nowadays, enough to counter warriors cooldowns. Warrior pops du? Priest uses fairy skill, sin goes back in stealth, ice mage resets ice barrier. Playing a warrior is insanely hard when your opponents don't die in 10seconds, or even after you used DU.

    See how well warriors do against anything with full crit def builds, despite the huge op gap of crit damage buffs. Because everyone pretty much can have 200k hp or even close to it, it will be insanely hard to kill anything with just non crits if there is a healer, and this is where cc spamming matters more than damage. Ice mages can kill anything in this game like a joke, oh they even do decent damage because on non arena gear opponents.

    In other words, warriors need more buffs cc-wise or anti-cc or a decent cooldown skill, let's be realistic, if you die in just 1-3 red hand hits, that's your fault. Go build your crit defense when arena is fixed.

    Also, priests a joke compared to light bards now, quite surprising no one has mentioned how op light bards are since the update. I have seen just 1 light bard tanking whole FF team even against op damage dealers for minutes. Concerto needs to be nerfed. Imagine fighting just 1 in arena one on one... or a team of light bards even.
  • dragonstalkerd
    dragonstalkerd Posts: 13 Arc User
    I'll make two comments:
    I have OP toons of almost every class in game. I build them all well enough and play them properly so that it no longer feels like I'm being beaten by any one class.

    -Warrior (by far highest damage toon I have): Have enough damage to kill tanky types, and enough rune energy to avoid being kited by ranged. Occassionally die to other OP damage players given situational advantages (RH vs no wrath, pocket healer, gank etc).
    -Mage (very tanky build with high mastery/anima/damage): Tanky enough that I don't get 3 shot by ANYONE. Allows some time to CC/lock/drain/damage most players enough to get the kill. This class doesn't even lose to the highest damage dealing classes (because its easier to manipulate their wrath with high CC class. When a high damage dealer has pocket healer (to purify/heal) then its time to die :P
    -Priest (super tanky build): Only problems come up when being ganked by 3-6 people, depending on their abilities.

    I don't feel disadvantaged on any of the classes I play compared to other classes. The only inbalances that I make note of pertain to situations (1v4, wrath vs no wrath, etc.).
  • reborn1991
    reborn1991 Posts: 17 Arc User

    I'll make two comments:

    I don't feel disadvantaged on any of the classes I play compared to other classes. The only inbalances that I make note of pertain to situations (1v4, wrath vs no wrath, etc.).

    this sums it as much

  • armenthys#4925
    armenthys#4925 Posts: 321 Arc User
    You think being a warrior gets you ganked on sight? Divine priests get an imaginary target sign above their heads as soon as anyone realize you can heal.

    About the warriors as someone already said it's a lot about the build and money you throw on your character. HP is kind of meaningless, and any war can be defeated by many other classes in a fair 1v1 match.
  • caesium222#5052
    caesium222#5052 Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited August 2016
    Many things have to be considered before one can be compared to others and I'm not going there. But it's a fact that there are more people playing warriors than say...protector, rebel priest, water bard, etc... there must be a GOOD reason that class is preferred over others (hint hint)
  • anyadpicsaja
    anyadpicsaja Posts: 226 Arc User
    The reason: people like beating up other people with a sword, much more than with a harp or a wand. As for protectors, its male only. (even if there were female prots,imagine a pile of rocks wearing bikini top.) xD
    giphy.gif
  • reborn1991
    reborn1991 Posts: 17 Arc User

    Many things have to be considered before one can be compared to others and I'm not going there. But it's a fact that there are more people playing warriors than say...protector, rebel priest, water bard, etc... there must be a good reason that class is preferred over others (hint hint)

    i play a war cause its versatile, and it fits my gameplay style, i love the moment i assault someone til the moment im kited to dead or headshot from sins stealth with my ref on, i have also a bard i was never able to play to its full potential after all this years and she is a killer too, but its the same as playing a priest i just get to bored at healing or ccing or loose fast focus no action and dont enjoy long range classes. If i had a restart today with a reset all stats into something else ticket i would play a darkpact tormentor cause it as the versatility of long or close range :)
  • amarantos
    amarantos Posts: 3,067 Arc User
    just give warriors spammable stealth like mm with +40%cc like edge sin and they will be good to go B)
  • eberg33k
    eberg33k Posts: 772 Arc User
    My only opinion is: Reflect, war and prot's, should be purgeable.
  • isock#6686
    isock#6686 Posts: 121 Arc User
    Warriors are annoying to fight, but they aren't op, hell until the latest gameplay update i suffered too many assaults until marksmans got their stealth

    Elemental warriors hit hard and seems like they have more stuns, but if you keep close to them (about 5 meters range) they can't really do much, can't use assault that close and only have like 3 skills with decent range, blade of reflection isn't that good nowadays that almost all clases have some sort of defense against bleeds, and if not you could always level up your gloop to reduce damage from it

    Aegis warriors heal if you attack them while casting life guardian, sometimes even healing the **** back to full hp, can become somewhat inmune to disarms/silences not to mention they can use assault at any range
    Blood warriors im sure they hit harder than elementals, and any warrior with decent HP hurts with sacrifice

    hell if you have troubles with reflects just learn to wait it out, stun the warrior, get someone to cast blood bonds,sleep it or heal it out,
    Isock-Soul marksman since 2011
    Tlatsotsonki-light bard
  • dlhy1988
    dlhy1988 Posts: 139 Arc User
    what's PvP for you ?