Extended explanation of "Fairness" of map dominance in response to WC discussion. No names please.

Before I get started, these are my opinions. I'm bringing them up due to some drama that occurred in World Chat to try and save myself a lot of World Flutes and break down why things work the way they do. I'm not going to mention any player or guild names and would ask that anyone commenting on this thread please do the same. This isn't about name calling or causing more drama, it is about explaining to people how some aspects of the game such as Rift work. The input I'm giving may describe specific players, guilds, and potentially hearsay that is incorrect. As I may be stating something that isn't in fact right, I'm not using names because I don't want to come off as accusing anyone of anything, and some of the things that I'm saying might be outdated. I'm also going to leave out some things that went through the discussion as they serve no purpose but to fuel fires.

The discussion was centered around the unfairness of one guild owning a large percentage of the Rift lands on the map. It was stated that the small guilds should unite and rise up against them as they should be able to take a few lands if they were all to work together. In addressing this, first off, not all small guilds are interested in participating in Rift or are unable to based upon the time or amount of players they would be able to bring. Regarding this, if smaller guilds are interested in learning how to open, bid, and Rift in general, please look here to see links to my guides, complete with screen shots on each of those topics. I would encourage you to speak to other guilds and work together to maximize your opening potential and to keep from bidding over each other if you are sharing a common goal.

It was mentioned that guilds who only "block" are losing themselves rewards and only receive potions which is a waste of their time and that they should be questioning their Leaders on why they bother with this. Actually, even if you lose a Rift, with the number of people who currently participate in Rift, your guild should receive Mounted Combat Licenses, Shoulder Enhancements, Sapphire Crystals, and Leader Honor Emblems as well as the Potions and Exp during Rift Rewards if not also Amethyst Crystals. What a guild is missing out on by not having land is the ability to Pray to receive Unbound Advanced Runes or Rift Gloves.

Regarding one guild holding the majority of the land, they are able to. When attacked by multiple small guilds at once, generally it only takes one or two mains and a few alts to defeat a smaller guild. The guilds holding land have stronger players in them. This is why they win at Rift and continue to hold the quantity of lands they have. Were they to simply hand a land over to a smaller guild as a gift, that guild would most likely lose it to one of the other larger guilds in the next week.

Moving players from one guild to another as reinforcements was brought up. When guilds are allied with each other, they sometimes do this to help preserve lands that they worry are going to cause them problems should they lose them to someone in a different alliance on a different statue. It must be done before bidding even takes place for the members to be able to fight in Rift that week, so it's a bit of a **** shoot on whether they will even be needed. As allies are unable to enter a friendly guild's Rift to support them directly, the change in guilds is the only way to do this. Some players have toons in multiple guilds permanently for this purpose.

The underlying tone for the argument was about the fairness to new players who get swept up by a smaller guild and thus are unable to benefit from Rift. This isn't about a balance of the map, it is more about a balance of the way guilds recruit and how people play together. Some guilds don't want the hassle of teaching each new player how to do everything. Some guilds are built simply for that purpose. But mainly, guilds are held together by a feeling of companionship and common goals. Many guilds have alt-guilds that are willing to take on new members and coach them through learning the game. They run instances with their top players but will also leave a spot or two for the players that need to get gear as well to make them more of an asset to the guild. If a player is unable to find the guilds that do this, it is unfortunate, but cannot be blamed on any one guild. It is not the responsibility of anyone to carry someone through the game, the fact that some do is just a nice bonus for other folks.

Another note about guilds, there are many guilds that might benefit from merging with someone else (this kind of goes back to the reinforcements thing) but it takes a lot of hard work to build up a guild and after pouring themselves into it, most don't want to give up on what they accomplished and let that die. They should not be put down by others for not wanting to give up what they have worked towards, if they can't accomplish a guild run for a certain instance alone, hopefully the members are friendly enough that they can find other guilds that will do these instances with them.

This is a game. It should be fun. People should be spending time with the people they enjoy playing with and doing the things they enjoy doing. It is no one's job to hold the hands of all of the new players, but some people enjoy doing such and that's what they play for. Those who don't want to do that should not be shunned for doing what they enjoy. New players can take the time to find guilds and meet people through World Chat parties. They can address the guilds they are interested in joining to become a member of them or one of their allies based upon who they get along with. Tags do not determine friendships, nor do they determine the make up of who you PvP with or run instances with. People have choices, they just need to think a bit and make them. Starting off in a game that is as old as FW currently is can be hard, but it doesn't take a lot of effort to read a bit, learn some things, and reach out to guilds and people in the game.​​
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Comments

  • sobe25
    sobe25 Posts: 166 Arc User
    As I have stated a long time ago... Rift only works well in large population servers like with CN. With our extremely small playerbase, it should have been altered to a cap of 3 lands per guild. Not only would that promote less monopoly on guild ownership, it could also split some of the bigger guilds up a little.

    However that is something not only impossible to do, but even if it was possible I doubt would ever happen lol. People just need to adapt or merge guilds to form bigger ones to put in more of an effort to fight back if they want lands. Even then though, some people are so disturbingly cash ridden OP that most smaller guild players can die to 1-2 AoErs instantly.

    Basically nothing will ever change that dynamic in FW.
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  • laphantonela
    laphantonela Posts: 50 Arc User
    No guild is big enough to be able to maintain all those lands to be honest. The excuse of 'it is inherited land passed down due to their old leadership' isn't an excuse for a guild to have that many land nor for people to not challenge that guild for the land. They've lost their land before. I know which server this is based on and small guilds have potential to win lands and gain more benefits for themselves. The advance rune is a valuable prize to gain. The potential runes they can make for the guildies of the guilds who gain them is great. Sounds like this post is defending a status quos. Try fighting. Try and see how it goes? Guilds have had changes in their OP players. As for borrowing people from other guilds for rift....<-total sign that the guild isn't that strong anymore.
  • bamfsennui
    bamfsennui Posts: 67 Arc User
    My guild does fight and we have land. I spent weeks shouting in WC to get people to at least open lands and teaching people how to do it. I can't make them Rift though. I was simply explaining that there are a lot of guilds who just don't fight, don't want to, can't field many, etc. If someone wants to Rift, they need to look for a Rifting guild.​​
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  • ichibantheleader
    ichibantheleader Posts: 71 Arc User
    I agree. Especially with your last paragraph. So many times I've had people start judging me for my guild tag and not who I am as an individual. I joined the guild I'm in to get away from choosing between two sets of friends and I don't need strangers telling me I'm a horrible person for going to a guild they don't like. Internally, I say "well **** you too", but its still hurtful. For the record, I am one of those people who will try to help if I can, simply because plenty of others have helped me in the past.
  • sobe25
    sobe25 Posts: 166 Arc User

    I agree. Especially with your last paragraph. So many times I've had people start judging me for my guild tag and not who I am as an individual. I joined the guild I'm in to get away from choosing between two sets of friends and I don't need strangers telling me I'm a horrible person for going to a guild they don't like. Internally, I say "well **** you too", but its still hurtful. For the record, I am one of those people who will try to help if I can, simply because plenty of others have helped me in the past.

    Being branded something for just being in a guild isn't fair that's for sure, but if people in whatever guild are freely running around being an ****/exploiter/troll and the leadership doesn't care or encourages it you tend to get bunched with them as a whole in the eyes of others.

    Now that being said, I am not trying to call any guild out or people for that matter. Just stating thats what our community is these days.
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  • divineauroras
    divineauroras Posts: 138 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    I had every intention to avoid posting, mainly because so many players in Imperium seem to hate me (words of their GL, not mine). So, I kinda already know that whatever I say here is gonna come across as whining/griping and therefore invite ppl to troll me. But the situation is so bad, that I can't contain myself from writing something, even knowing that most likely all I will accomplish is make happy those who hate me (because they'll know that they really did affect me how they wanted to....crushing my competitive spirit, getting a reaction out of me, and simultaneously fueling their dominance of the entire server in Rift.) Therefore, I'm at war within myself...whether to just give up due to futility or else continue to fight the Storm giant that so easily crushes every other guild (for the same motivation that you would want to stop a UFC fighter from battling a toddler).

    For me, its not only a matter of principle (standing up against the Man) but personal. I left Imperium after being falsely accused of stealing an Elemental Gear (wasn't even on my toon, and I also paid back the guild to remain in good-standing), and have since been accused of spying on them (which the GL can verify that I did never do). Ironically, now I can't even speak safely within my own guild, Nemesis, because whatever I say potentially ends up linked to Imp's GC. Personal reasons aside, I enjoy fighting Imperium for other reasons: knowing it's a challenge, being in a guild that shows promise, and also to give hope to the smaller guilds that it's possible to beat them. But.....

    The rifts on Storm, are so incredibly one-sided...that they make the most ridiculous match-up in FF seem like a desirable treat (and YES that is saying something...we've all been in one thats like 3k to 100 at the end). For some reason, 80-85% of the top PvP related toons have gathered all in one spot, making it impossible to win a single territory from them without EXTREME, SEVER-WIDE cooperation (which is not only rare but sometimes ineffectual). This just makes the game discouraging for everyone but that one guild (and their alliance, which is superfluous). I know what it's like to be on the dominating side of this equation, having been in Imperium for over a year myself. The rifts are boring with no one to challenge, and now being on this side of it add that it is highly frustrating as well.

    The Problem: Is a combination of a number of factors
    1. Imp has the most OP toons of all guilds
    2. Imp is an old guild with lots of experience related to rift (able to field 6-7 territories at once)
    3. Imp has land locked about 12 of 24 territories, meaning only guilds NOT on the map can attack (good luck with that)
    4. Imp has strong alliances that block and also coordinate attacks to ensure they don't have to fight anyone "full force"
    5. Lack of server population has rendered Storm so that there are insufficient number of competitors

    The Solution(s): None of which seem viable
    1. Get more OP toons in other guilds (this would require new toons to be made, which will never catch up to the experienced, dedicated members of Imp...or else to have some of Imp's members defect, as I did, to help another promising guild....which is equally as unlikely considering most of them have invested a substantial amount of time in the guild developing bonds and such).
    2. Attack Imp from more than 6-7 territories at once (impossible due to positioning, lack of coordinated efforts, and also shielding done by other guilds)
    3. Redistrubute the map territories to avoid the landlock situation (will result in the same exact problem within a few months of Imp retaking everything)
    4. Convince the alliance members helping Imperium to attack instead of defend (would work but not likely to happen)
    5. Increase server population (also would work but c'mon please...the servers aren't growing and even if they were the new players wouldn't be strong enough to mount a successful rift attack)


    So at first , I ridiculed the random alt in WC saying "team up against Imperium, don't block for them..." But the more I think on it, the more it makes me hope....that it is possible to keep one guild from ruling everything. Somehow that hope gets crushed every week during rifts, when I see myself in the middle of 8-10 ppl as strong as myself...and all my teammates are dead. I just wish there were more people helping, what seems like a lost cause...


    And....there's the answer I was looking for. See you all never again.
    Post edited by divineauroras on
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    DivineSpirits (Fire/Ice Mage), DivineAuror (Divine Priest), SirFanion (Elemental Warrior); Allied with Rhondelyn and DarqueShadow
  • bamfsennui
    bamfsennui Posts: 67 Arc User
    Thank you for commenting Div. Regardless of tags, I've always thought highly of you and respect you. Doesn't matter what side of the battlefield we're on, I like you. :)

    As we've been over with you and Pyrois as well, it's simply a matter of how the game is set up atm, and how friends and guilds are working. This thread wasn't set up as a "let's all fight over who should be in charge" just an example of how the current dynamics set things up for map domination.​​
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  • nickvv
    nickvv Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited November 2015
    We have/had 1 big guild that owned 60% of the lands, big and small united to take 3 or 4 per week, nobody can defend 11 wars a week. Now said guild owns lands that they can hold and the gvg situation is sorr of even.

    Uniting small guilds to bring down the bigger does help.. Ask anybody on illyfue :)
  • sobe25
    sobe25 Posts: 166 Arc User
    Yea its pretty rough in Storm to the point of many rifters spirits are getting broken when it comes to trying to take or keep land against certain guilds. The act of fighting the rifts even say against Imp I find fun (even if it ends in a slaughter), but this system is just so flawed based on so many different issues sadly.
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