• im2gr84u
    im2gr84u Posts: 695 Arc User
    Wars and sins are a joke. People just think they are very overpowered because you die very fast even at base wrath. Right now I die easily because of my overpowered 35% dodge and 250% crit def, but I know how both can't do anything against high crit def and dodge. Sins still can cc you, but wars, if they can't crit they are pretty worthless because they have no real cc. But sins are the most annoying class to fight.

    Try fight against 3 at the same time even. Miss miss, stealth miss miss, sins have 4 ways to get away from you if they get Swift Eva, they can easily hide if you use any useful cooldown 'till it's gone, that's what makes them unbalanced, no class should have that many cooldowns, but reading level 100 patch notes, sins don't really get boosted, and the rest mostly gets lots of attack boost.

    As the HP keeps going up, it's harder to kill people, and warriors are probably the most underpowered class in this area when their crits don't do damage since they have no cc to compensate, a dps without cc is just useless if the dps isn't strong enough, anyway, for the ones who still refuse to stack crit def, expect to get even higher crits and die much faster from wars after that patch.

  • known2figures
    known2figures Posts: 129 Arc User
    My snow isn't that strong with next to no resist, but lv80 mastery, almost 11k attack, is an alt, 500% crit dmg, Yet even he hits hard on people enough to practically drains most of the hp or kill. You don't need to be as strong as velvet. It doesn't take much building on a sin at all to be able to practically demolish another.
  • known2figures
    known2figures Posts: 129 Arc User
  • nickvv
    nickvv Posts: 340 Arc User
    The experienced sin backs up the MM and mage for being a pain in my **** :3, get on end game level pvp and tell me how easy sin is..
  • abraxadabra
    abraxadabra Posts: 23 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    But you alo have to take into account there are a lot of stupid sins out there who have no plan b and no experience dealing with decently geared mm (beacuse it is a rare class still) if they can't one hit you out of stealth. They try and one shot mm through bubble out of stealth and get their **** handed to them when they get cc'd for til the next patch comes. And that is completely fair. Sins can spam cc like crazy but they are fairly easy to cc the **** out of too. that is fair and balanced. the only thing they really have and advantage is getting 1st hit in.
  • nragedrain
    nragedrain Posts: 113 Arc User
    Many get frustrated with Sins but same can be said for other classes.
    Many struggle against your generic Edge/Dark Sin hybrid, having Evasive buffs, high Critchance out of stealth makes them Lethal and easily build as Glass cannon. Able too dish out a good amount of damage and dodging a good amount as well. To a Certain degree every class or class tree has a counter to its abilities and this counts for Sins as well.

    And as stated before Sins lack in endgame department. Sins are more focused to take on 1 person as if the class is more build for "Dueling" and "1v1". Sins lack Anti CC, believe it or not but its made up for their "Purpose" in PvP the "Roll" they fulfill. A few things you want to consider when you are up against a Sin.

    - Critdefense / Resistance / Damage reduction / Anima Shields
    This almost comes as a no brainer but many do lack a full commitment towards these stats regardless of Class. Majority of the Sins are fairly dedicated to having their Dps maxed, players that want to deal with it have to invest a good deal into being able to soak up damage. This might of course not be the case if you face a very geared Sin but that should come as no surprise facing any other class that is geared.

    - Know what type you are fighting
    Not all Sins have 40% Critchance / 7 second silences / Swiftevasion or even 5/4 Shadowprotection Ability. Majority of the Edge/Dark sin hybrids would have this but they do not want a prolonged battle. If you can outlast their heavy cooldowns and initial burst out of Stealth they are very manageable.

    - Evasion counter
    In most cases high accuracy is not required depending on your class vs Sins. The Eva buffs are high and can last for quite a while but CC's like Prot Stuns / Assault / Sleep / Transform / Darkbond and many other CC forms that do not require accuracy to apply can still work. Sin Evasion buffs can be purged unless the Sin covers it. Most sins aren't actually Evasion build granting them high Evasion on buffs yes, but not impossible to hit. There is always a 5% unlucky chance that with whatever amount of Evasion a Sin reaches it can still get hit.

    - Ganking is helpful but...
    You do not necessary need to be outnumbering the sin but it helps out. Sins focus is to CC 1 target , it probably will have a hard time focusing another at the same time. If the frustration is in 12b12 and you know you are facing a Sin or Sins, try to always move close to one another teammate.

    - Anticipation
    The initial 1st Strike is usually at the Sins advantage due to Stealth. Anticipating the preemptive strikes by activating your wrath as you get hit and reacting accordingly with cooldowns makes a huge difference. In 12v12 make sure you are in a Raid. Put the settings on "show Debuffs only". Memorize the Sins debuffs and you can judge where the Sin is to a certain degree, which places to avoid or who to help out.

    - Destealthing
    As any Dpser its probably likely that people will want to farm redhand 1st before engaging the strongest players with a Redhand advantage over another or at least be on equal footing if their opponents have Redhand themselves. Sins will be cheeky with this, sleeping unsuspecting targets at the edge of your raid or even camp a flag until there is only 1 person they can single out. Stay alert, use AoE's if you have them to destealth them. Majority of the sins are not evasion build and it shouldn't be to hard to destealth them. If you have done your best, count on your teammates to do the same.

    - A Sin should counter another Sin
    Builds, Stats and 3000+ Eva from ShadowProtection aside, with Vicious Intention for 3 hits there is no hiding behind Evasion unless the Sin has more then just Evasion to rely upon. Probably most Sins will know this and will try to counter this. The Sin that can strike another Sin successfully 1st has the advantage. The Sin most adept to handling another Sin in most cases is your generic Edge/Dark Sin hybrid.

    - A Sins potential is far from endgame
    All Soulpower Abilities that augments a Sins DPS output except Dyos Blade which only peaks at a 5%+ Critchance, plus Immunity against CC gained from Rune Energy is all "chance based". The Chance even at 100 Energy will never ever exceed 50% success rate. This means a Sins timing to rely on it is relatively low. As for the Wisdom Energy, no Sin in their right mind will aim for it because it requires Evasion to allow the Sin to have a chance on chance.. [upon chance?] to gain Immunity against CC. Sins will not ever have a Divineuphold ability on wisdom energy and neither will it have a Harshfreeze nature energy ability on their skills, Sins just don't have it even if their energy reaches 100.

    Some food for thought
    - Sins do not gain 2x Critchance buffs for a long duration
    - All Sins require to Crit to efficiently CC a target
    - Majority of the Sins are focused to take out 1 at a time and not multiple
    - Your average Sin will not have defensive attributes or abilities, only Evasion buffs and AnimaShields
    - Majority of the Sins do not like long fights even when a priest is on their side
    - Most Sins are glasscannon
    - Most Sins play in a cowardly manner, expect Sins to always have their cooldowns refreshed due to lurking in stealth out of Combat.
    - Sins have little anti CC immunity or dispels regardless of the race
    - Sins do not gain any skills that gets enhanced by HP [Kindred Venom Lurkingsting, just no]
    - In Ice and Fire Sins will drop the flag if they stealth while carrying it
    - In Ice and Fire Sins will not drop the flag if in a "Phased Action state" which is Dark Sin only
    - In Ice and Fire Sins who carry the flag have all their Evasion stripped from them
    - Majority of the Sins do not shine in mass PvP
    - Majority of the Sins do not succeed in a closed box situation, hence many don't ever go Arena.
    - Venom Sins will have AoE's but they will lack SwiftEvasion and a 5/4 Adv Shadowprotection build in most cases
    - Venom Sins AoE skill mutilation only peaks at 105% Base Damage
    - Only a Dark Sin can stun using their Sin assault. Deadlychaser still has a long cooldown plus a slower animation then Assault

    700%+ Critdmg Sin sounds nice
    15.000 base Atk Sin sounds great
    600 Eva build Sin sounds annoying
    420%+ Critdef Sin sounds robust
    Sin on Seed of Agony, Swift Evasion, Abomination, Broken Shadow, 5/4 Shadowprotection, all Stealththeory, Intensified Agression and Swift Evasion cooldown reduction maxed sounds super.
    But never ever will a Sin have all of it.
    Whichever Sin you face due too missing almost always 1 of the major stats it will have a clear weakness regardless of how amazing the Sins stats are or how great a Sin is build or how good the Sin plays with its limitations.

    The Sin is build to "Assassinate" its target, thus it fulfills a certain roll.
    If the Sin tries to go beyond that roll it becomes frustrating for the Sin.
    Or a joy depending on how geared the Sin is but I would even argue that.
    Thus you hardly see many Sins not play otherwise then conservative sneaking kills.

    A Sin is not a icemage who takes the roll of CC locking one or many.
    A Sin is not a warrior who charges the front lines.
    A Sin is not a protector to protect another.
    A Sin is not a windraider to bust a group of players at once.
    A Sins roll is not to debuff a target like a demon or a rebel priest.
    A Sins roll is not to buff another party member like Bards.
    A Sin has to take it all on melee range and not like a Marksman.
    The Sin has the roll to simply "take out" a target.
    And this somehow has to be done at "close Range".
    If the Sin takes out their target it has done its job well.
  • rzr13
    rzr13 Posts: 73 Arc User
    i think for most the annoying part is after u fight off 3 or 4 people and u are running back to base u get 1 shot by a sneaky sin..

    i agree sins are suppose to be played in stealth.. but honestly they have too many escapes now.. vs a sin he can always aos if the target is more tanky.. either u guys dun have good sins in ur server or u been fighting vs wrong ones..

    that aside i think the main reason behind the annoyance maybe while other classes have to stack crit def and resist to run around sins can just walk around get red hand in stealth..

    In hoif when im carrying a flag and has cleared 2 or 3 players and im mounting 60% of the time ill prob switch off wrath cause i know people will be waiting for me at base... then here comes a sleep and some crits with red hand or aos even..

    sins can be totally pve and be very good in pvp... i get it fair enuf... but what the hell with all the stealth, switf eva or even spam mutilation with that annoying slow..

  • nickvv
    nickvv Posts: 340 Arc User
    Nrage says all that has to be said...

    Just the very OP sins are remembered and are shining when fighting lower geared foes, but so does any other class with OP stats..

    As nrage said, 90% of the sins plays in a cowardly way, i personally am not patient enough for this and like the challenge but maybe its better to make some QQ towards the 'coward' sins. The class itself has enough counters, ask any well geared water bards about sins for example
  • sincerityaig
    sincerityaig Posts: 25 Arc User
    edited September 2015
    Nyos venom sins w/ 90+ energy are pretty good endgame imo... w/ their high chances to proc deadly chaser and cc immunity. Anything over a 45-50% proc rate would be too op.
    Post edited by sincerityaig on
  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    DarqueShadow vs Natsss!! gogogo

  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    natsss said:

    would be good a screen of his stats but imo if we chain duel he would have high chance to lose if he dont have shadow protection
    venom sin have many silence but doesnt stun so much so if i keep running and my stun hit he'll be caught in my stun combo ( baltha can say that's it's a horrible stun lock xDD )

    Well he does have 90 energy.. so he can cast stuff under CC and such.. idk. he is pretty annoying to fight.. lol

  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    natsss said:

    natsss said:

    would be good a screen of his stats but imo if we chain duel he would have high chance to lose if he dont have shadow protection
    venom sin have many silence but doesnt stun so much so if i keep running and my stun hit he'll be caught in my stun combo ( baltha can say that's it's a horrible stun lock xDD )

    Well he does have 90 energy.. so he can cast stuff under CC and such.. idk. he is pretty annoying to fight.. lol
    i fought some 90 energy it's annoying but well not enought for a onesided fight
    Yeah.. its probably easier for ranged.. but for melee.. is almost impossible to control him..

  • dragonstalkerd
    dragonstalkerd Posts: 13 Arc User

    got to admitt i ve seen some video of DarqueShadow, and he is showing why i want so much a venom lycan maxed out ! awsome :o

    In CN, I believe VNM sins are one of the top pvp class.
  • kirigh
    kirigh Posts: 9 Arc User
    "Nyos venom sins w/ 90+ energy are pretty good endgame imo... w/ their high chances to proc deadly chaser and cc immunity. Anything over a 45-50% proc rate would be too op."

    as venom sin at 90 energy you've 36% chance to proc nyos poison and the reset on deadlychasser/immunity is 20% of those 36%, you call that high chances? a little 7.2% chance to proc it?