Elemental gear 85 vs Champion gear 85

Tonali - Storm Legion
Tonali - Storm Legion Posts: 232 Arc User
edited August 2014 in General Discussion
I have seen a few elemental 85 gears, they have OP golden stats, but are the better/same than champ 85?
I know those are harder to get than champ 85
But are they actually better? or it would be better to mix both gears?

And if it's better to mix, which pieces should i pick from both sets?
Post edited by Tonali - Storm Legion on

Comments

  • LuciusOersted - Storm Legion
    LuciusOersted - Storm Legion Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    From what I've seen so far (being boots only), the base stats on the ele gear is MUCH higher than that of champ set. The only benefit of champion set is literally the pve intensity. Outside of that, ele gear is probably far superior. But that's just my opinion.
    LuciusOersted - Lv90 Squishy Divine Priest

    GregoryAileron - Lv90 Noob Water Bard


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  • amarantos
    amarantos Posts: 3,067 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    you also have to consider ease of acquiring, since aside from great base stats/gold stats on ele gear the resist bonus is weaker than arena bonuses unless you can manage a full set, which is not easily done with how some of the bosses work. if you are pve focused i would suggest champ for the pve intensity and if you are pvp focused probably 5pc arena set and maybe boots/hands to keep good resists.
  • LuciusOersted - Storm Legion
    LuciusOersted - Storm Legion Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    amarantos wrote: »
    you also have to consider ease of acquiring, since aside from great base stats/gold stats on ele gear the resist bonus is weaker than arena bonuses unless you can manage a full set, which is not easily done with how some of the bosses work. if you are pve focused i would suggest champ for the pve intensity and if you are pvp focused probably 5pc arena set and maybe boots/hands to keep good resists.

    What she said ^

    The chances of anyone being able to attain the whole set is going to be ridiculously hard. And for certain classes (divine priest, water bard), I don't see the ele set being all too useful unless you strictly get hands/boots since you'll be breaking the arena set bonus and lose all that wonderful crit def and dodge bonus.

    P.S. I'm full pvp focused build so I kept all my arena pieces since I prefer not getting crit for more than half my HP.
    LuciusOersted - Lv90 Squishy Divine Priest

    GregoryAileron - Lv90 Noob Water Bard


    Apparently I'm the god of K-pop... ._.
  • BlackLuster - Eyrda
    BlackLuster - Eyrda Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    From what I've seen so far (being boots only), the base stats on the ele gear is MUCH higher than that of champ set. The only benefit of champion set is literally the pve intensity. Outside of that, ele gear is probably far superior. But that's just my opinion.

    The Elemental Stats has higher but i'm curious about some pieces. I have both the Elementals hands and Champ hands. Champ has more attack than Elemental which I found quite interesting. I have seen the Ele warrior boots *cough Whaletine and they have 13.9k base compare to the 12k base HP champ stats. Also this game hate me so much I can't ID any new 85 gear for CDmg.

    Champ
    10sdjsm.jpg

    Elemental
    2mh9ys7.jpg
  • amarantos
    amarantos Posts: 3,067 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    more posties of stats /o/

    e6u0DF8.jpg
    AYT4XpV.jpg

    champ set bonuses (full set, not including additional attributes): 65 acc, 95 mast, 15% crit dam, 3% crit chance

    ele set bonuses with gold stats (full set): 75 total resist + 96 each element, 35% crit dam, 7% crit chance


    if you were pve focused the real question would be to conduct a ton of damage tests and find out the approximate multiplier pve intensity gives to see if the additional cc/cdam from eles would balance out the pve intensity/mastery (though i doubt it). and of course for pvp the question is choosing damage over defensiveness in cc/cdam vs cdodge/cdef.

    perhaps other people can link champ vs ele pieces theyve collected.


    and to throw in IR gloves for stat comparison to lusters gloves linked above

    yxfIAdU.jpg
  • LuciusOersted - Storm Legion
    LuciusOersted - Storm Legion Posts: 98 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    The Elemental Stats has higher but i'm curious about some pieces. I have both the Elementals hands and Champ hands. Champ has more attack than Elemental which I found quite interesting. I have seen the Ele warrior boots *cough Whaletine and they have 13.9k base compare to the 12k base HP champ stats. Also this game hate me so much I can't ID any new 85 gear for CDmg.

    Oh that's interesting actually. I wonder why it differs for certain pieces. But from what amantine linked with the boots, ele boss boots give so much more hp than champ boots it's ridiculous. Heck I compared my current arena boots with champ boots and it's not too much different in terms of the base hp. Reforge probably scales better with champ but I highly doubt the reforge alone would make it a HUGE difference.
    LuciusOersted - Lv90 Squishy Divine Priest

    GregoryAileron - Lv90 Noob Water Bard


    Apparently I'm the god of K-pop... ._.
  • ILikeBigGu - Illyfue
    ILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ele = hp
    Champ = atk


    Just like wargod had more atk and arena gear more hp.
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  • CountVonCo - Illyfue
    CountVonCo - Illyfue Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    if you were pve focused the real question would be to conduct a ton of damage tests and find out the approximate multiplier pve intensity gives to see if the additional cc/cdam from eles would balance out the pve intensity/mastery (though i doubt it).

    This sounds legit. I lost a lot of cdmg from IDs when xferring over from wargod set. Pve Intensity is ludicrously good for PVE. Full champs set will win a dps fight every time vs Ele set, assuming Champs set user has enough cc to crit regularly.

    I have 85 GvG gloves, and still using WarGod hands, because even with the slight increase in base attack is tiny compared to the old WarGod hands.
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  • Nickjenna - Storm Legion
    Nickjenna - Storm Legion Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    If you guys remember if you look at the base stats of the 75 ele gear its the same stats at as the season 1 arena gear and what im think they did is the gave them the same base stats as the 85 arena gear so that why i makes sense its higher HP and lower Attack
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  • fottermucker3
    fottermucker3 Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Why do tons of tests if you have maths :D PvE ofcourse, pvp its ele set>champ set obviously..

    Lets say the ele and champ set have the same attack, i dont have exact info over it but the difference is minimal.

    Lets set some base stats and add the stats of the sets first:
    10k attack
    1k mastery
    50 crit chance
    500 crit dmg

    Random skill: 150% base + 5k bonus dmg

    Champion set:
    95 mastery
    15 crit dmg
    3 crit chance
    352 pve mastery (assuming zodiac weapon)

    casting the skill 100 times results in 53 crits and 47 normal hits.

    Crits: (5000+(1,5*10.000))*2,095*5,15*1,352*53 = 15462289,96

    500 being bonus dmg, 1,5 base attack multiplied by attack, 2,095 mastery multiplication, 5,15 crit dmg, 1,325 pve mastery factor and 53 amount of crits in 100 hits.

    non-crits: (5000+(1,5*10.000))*2,095*1,352*47 = 2662493,6

    Resulting in total damage in 100 hits with champ set at: 18124783

    Ele set:
    35 crit dmg
    7 crit chance
    44 pve mastery (assuming zodiac weapon)


    Crits: (5000+(1,5*10.000))*2*5,35*1,044*57 = 12734712

    2 being mastery , 5,35 crit dmg, 1,044 pvem astery and 57 amount of crits in 100.

    non-crits: (5000+(1,5*10.000))*2*1,044*43 = 1795680

    Resulting in total damage in 100 hits with Ele set at: 14530392

    So PvE wise the champ set is nearly 25% stronger AND its free.
  • Baalthasarr - Dyos
    Baalthasarr - Dyos Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Where do you get the 2,095 from?

    You say that this is the mastery multiplication, but i do not understand how you get this value.
    Is it not 1095 only +352 PVE-Mastery? = 1447 Mastery in total?
  • Drachus - Eyrda
    Drachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Those numbers are also reliant upon a lot of assumptions on PvE intensity. Yes, it is a value listed under the mastery tab of your character screen, but that does not automatically mean that it functions like mastery. I haven't seen anything in game stating how PvE intensity works, and I don't think anyone has put forth the annoying amount of effort it would take to determine exactly where/how pve intensity works.
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  • fottermucker3
    fottermucker3 Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Where do you get the 2,095 from?

    You say that this is the mastery multiplication, but i do not understand how you get this value.
    Is it not 1095 only +352 PVE-Mastery? = 1447 Mastery in total?


    2,095 is 1095 mastery, 1000 base + 95 from set, sicne in my assumption i took 1000 base mastery and the champ set gives 95 more.

    The difference that the PvE intensity gave is in my experience way too big for it to be 1000+352, i mean i can post all the damage screenshots you want before and after champion set but this is nto a showoff comment. The difference is so gigantic, it must be a seperate factor at the end of the calculation, but feel free to do your ow nresearch ofcourse, this is just my calculation.

    The factors i use do predict my own damage output, it is always a bit higher than the actual damage due to mob resistance, i used the same calculations before the PvE intensity to test my damage, taking that in account does lean to pve intensity being a sereate multiplication factor instead of just being added to mastery.

    But thats just my research, would love to see others calculations etc :)
    Those numbers are also reliant upon a lot of assumptions on PvE intensity. Yes, it is a value listed under the mastery tab of your character screen, but that does not automatically mean that it functions like mastery. I haven't seen anything in game stating how PvE intensity works, and I don't think anyone has put forth the annoying amount of effort it would take to determine exactly where/how pve intensity works.

    I have doen a lot of effort before and after, i play for maximum damage output and therefore calculate which ID's i need and what gear fits best, i dont have any official sources obviously but i do have my own 'research' for each skill i cast and the effect my gear has on it. I love excell sheets :D
  • CountVonCo - Illyfue
    CountVonCo - Illyfue Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Where do you get the 2,095 from?

    You say that this is the mastery multiplication, but i do not understand how you get this value.
    Is it not 1095 only +352 PVE-Mastery? = 1447 Mastery in total?

    10 mastery and 10 pve intensity are not the same. Pve intensity increases ur dmg by a lot more than mastery would. I dont have the time to give the equation nor do I want to.

    Try test it out urself, pve intensity looking at my own personal dmg numbers, increases dmg output in pve situations by almost 1/3rd.

    Pve situation is essentially everything in game thats you vs environment. Be it instances, mobs or bosses.
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  • fottermucker3
    fottermucker3 Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    10 mastery and 10 pve intensity are not the same. Pve intensity increases ur dmg by a lot more than mastery would. I dont have the time to give the equation nor do I want to.

    Try test it out urself, pve intensity looking at my own personal dmg numbers, increases dmg output in pve situations by almost 1/3rd.

    Pve situation is essentially everything in game thats you vs environment. Be it instances, mobs or bosses.

    having 300 pve intensity would mean 30% dmg increase in pve as far as i know.
  • Drachus - Eyrda
    Drachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    I have doen a lot of effort before and after, i play for maximum damage output and therefore calculate which ID's i need and what gear fits best, i dont have any official sources obviously but i do have my own 'research' for each skill i cast and the effect my gear has on it. I love excell sheets :D

    Eeeeh. You can have your own opinions and such based on your experience, and that is fair... However, you'll have to excuse me if I don't quite take the guesstimations of unnamed alt accounts on the forums as absolute truth. lol. I do not mean this offensively - I just have no idea who you are or what kind of empirical data you may have (if any) and the validity of the processes used to determine said data.
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  • shokkur
    shokkur Posts: 139 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    10 mastery and 10 pve intensity are not the same. Pve intensity increases ur dmg by a lot more than mastery would. I dont have the time to give the equation nor do I want to.

    Try test it out urself, pve intensity looking at my own personal dmg numbers, increases dmg output in pve situations by almost 1/3rd.

    Pve situation is essentially everything in game thats you vs environment. Be it instances, mobs or bosses.

    You have no equation at all, which is why you don't want to provide it.

    You decided that pve intensity is worth 1k mastery, which gives an accepted... 100% damage increase... and then say it increased your damage by 1/3 instead... which is saying that really you think it is closer to 333 mastery in value... disturbingly close to saying that 10 mastery and 10 intensity really are about the same...

    Close with an irrefutable "pve is pve" statement! Good stuff. For entertainment anyway... not so much for knowledge.
  • fottermucker3
    fottermucker3 Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2014


    Eeeeh. You can have your own opinions and such based on your experience, and that is fair... However, you'll have to excuse me if I don't quite take the guesstimations of unnamed alt accounts on the forums as absolute truth. lol. I do not mean this offensively - I just have no idea who you are or what kind of empirical data you may have (if any) and the validity of the processes used to determine said data.

    Cant blame you for that, as for obvious reasons i cant talk why i am not posting from my main *cough*.

    Let's say we had a discussion about venom sins once upon a time.

    Also never have i claimed it to be absolute truth, just as my experiences and equations, im open minded for other equations as stated earlier.

    p.s. I am not in here to discuss wether i'm right or not, just sharing my experiences and calulations which i personally use to help others decide on their gear.
  • CountVonCo - Illyfue
    CountVonCo - Illyfue Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    shokkur wrote: »
    You have no equation at all, which is why you don't want to provide it.

    You decided that pve intensity is worth 1k mastery, which gives an accepted... 100% damage increase... and then say it increased your damage by 1/3 instead... which is saying that really you think it is closer to 333 mastery in value... disturbingly close to saying that 10 mastery and 10 intensity really are about the same...

    Close with an irrefutable "pve is pve" statement! Good stuff. For entertainment anyway... not so much for knowledge.

    Hey I dont have to prove anything, If you dont like what i say, go ahead and use whatever gear u want. When u dont win the battle, dont blame me.

    I dont care for numbers, as you and i both know, numbers can be pulled out of the sky by anyone to make it look however they want.

    Personal experience is better than anything.

    So go ahead and go do your own experiments, I'll carry on playing the game and doing so also.
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    <Forever with Vepigi> | Lv90 PvE Dark Vamp

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  • tutilake88
    tutilake88 Posts: 654 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Champion set has higher base attack, has attack additional attributes, has totally OP set bonuses and has pve intensity. Ele gear can't compete with Champion set in terms of PVE.

    And ele gear can't compete with purple Arena gear (the new set which we sadly don't have yet) in terms of PvP. So basically, ele gear is useless in whichever area you evaluate.
  • fottermucker3
    fottermucker3 Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tutilake88 wrote: »
    Champion set has higher base attack, has attack additional attributes, has totally OP set bonuses and has pve intensity. Ele gear can't compete with Champion set in terms of PVE.

    And ele gear can't compete with purple Arena gear (the new set which we sadly don't have yet) in terms of PvP. So basically, ele gear is useless in whichever area you evaluate.

    Maybe for damage classes pvp oriented who dont care that much about dodge/def, or 'hybrids' altho i'd chose the new arena set if i wanted pvp gear..
  • Drachus - Eyrda
    Drachus - Eyrda Posts: 1,532 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    On topic: Agreed with Sheep. Champ gear > Ele gear in terms of pve. Ele > champ in terms of pvp. But upcoming new arena > ele in terms of pvp. Even the current arena is better pvp wise for most people - just supplement great hands/boots/weapon upgrades and you'll be fine. But this means that when new arena gear comes out (if it comes out z_z) ele gear will be almost useless for everyone, even spike damage oriented pvpers, except for maybe some rare eva peoples.
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