Refined star crystal

Bhyl - Lionheart
Bhyl - Lionheart Posts: 410 Arc User
edited July 2014 in General Discussion
Someone may as well start this.

200 tof a ref star crystal.

8 star crystal + ref star crystal = meteor crystal (bound) plus 1D50s soul coin cost.

8 meteors is 32% chance to fort, according to my sources. sooo.... average 2 goes to fort from 11/12 to 12/12, can get lucky with one.

Tof price is ~60s per on LH atm. Never usually goes lower than 50s. Bare minimum 1D per meteor. So 8D a try at minimum.

Plus the cost of star crystals...

So how is this good for new players?... or any players

Discussing it with guildies. 25 per would be a far more reasonable, but no too cheap price.
Post edited by Bhyl - Lionheart on
«13

Comments

  • Thrashz - Storm Legion
    Thrashz - Storm Legion Posts: 495 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Seriously PWE.... its alot cheaper to try with regular star crystals -.- this is just ****ing insane.
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  • AndrewBlan - Storm Legion
    AndrewBlan - Storm Legion Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    On storm, at the current ToF prices (Which I assume will raise now) it's about 12d per try. Even if you only used them to get from 11-12, thats 96d to try once on every piece, and chances are your not going to get it on the first try each time.
  • Bhyl - Lionheart
    Bhyl - Lionheart Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What's the tof price on others servers? Just looked at LH and 70s is lowest buyout so 1.4D per.
  • Mr_InFamou - Lionheart
    Mr_InFamou - Lionheart Posts: 378 Arc User
    edited July 2014
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    Take it from PsyCat.
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  • misterysinner
    misterysinner Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Can a mod or someone repply to this and tell us what the hell is going on?
    Why FW staff makeing player base waiting 2 mounts on an important item; and when item finally added in game..was added for an insane amount of tofs?
    Was this a mistake? Someone put the rong tof price on Refined Star Cristals or what?

    Dont you dare delete this! better answer! i will really quit playing games from PWE if dont get answer too this.
  • alyus
    alyus Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    you all also forget you do get tofs from check ins which can save you G in the long run if you are willing to be patient.
    On 8/20/14 at 9:07 AM we have been informed that we lost another member of the FW team to go off to another title. RIP GreyjoyKraken. All hope for FW is forever lost...
  • AndrewBlan - Storm Legion
    AndrewBlan - Storm Legion Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Even if you were to get 10 a day from check-ins, which i certainly don't. (idk about other people)
    That's 20 days to get 1 Refined SC, that is 160 days (half a year almost) to get enough to have a 32% chance, still not even a 1/2 chance to get it. and that is only on 1 piece of gear. True It would save you gold, but barely any when you set it next to the price its going to cost in the long run.
  • Shapelle - Lionheart
    Shapelle - Lionheart Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Ok, just thinking on this, and running some math, to determine what would have been a fair ToF price in line with history.

    Let's assume for now, 200 leaves is 1D. 1600 leaves bought 100 star crystals at non-sale prices, and people either fortified level 40 gear at a 8% success rate and fort transferred up, costing star diamonds and star fragments, which effectively doubled the cost at the end of the day. So either way, you either used 200 star crystals to fort from 11->12 on a lvl 77 gear, or you used 100 star crystals on average, and paid basically as much again to fort transfer.

    It took, statistically on average, about 160 SC's to fort an old-school lvl 40 item to 12/12 at the old success rates. That cost the person who never bought on sales about 4000 leaves worth, or about 20D, to fort to 12/12, and transfer said fort to a purple 77 gear. If buying on sales wisely, it cost around 2500 leaves effectively.

    So, basically, anything from around 12.5-20D equivalent to arrive at a 12/12 forted purple gear on average. That's pre-soul leaf crystal and pre-patch.

    With the new system, and let's assume SC's are basically free to someone who's patient and farms soul leaves well, leaving just the cost of the Refined Star Crystals. It statistically takes now, around 40 Refined Star Crystals to fort an item to 12/12 with the new system.

    That is now a ~40 x 200 => ~8000 ToF cost for a single 12/12 fort (statistical average).

    On Lionheart, home of the cheapest ToF's (not for long), at around 80s/ToF (60s ToF is rare), that's 8000 x 0.8 => 6400 gold, or 64D

    Basically, the effective cost to fortify to 12/12 with the new system is now between 3-5x higher than the old system.

    That is ludicrous.

    A MUCH fairer price would have been 40-50 ToF's for a Refined Star Crystal based upon history. PWE would still get their sales, it would be in line with history, and while still very bloody expensive, it's not completely, totally and utter outright gouging.

    Shame PWE. Utter, utter disdainful shame on you.
  • Zeratful - Lionheart
    Zeratful - Lionheart Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I hope this is just a BIG mistake.....
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  • Ayumichan - Storm Legion
    Ayumichan - Storm Legion Posts: 364 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Next step: Flare Gem Card 9000 ToF at Otis :D:D
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  • hooopso
    hooopso Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    As everyone stated its just another example of developers not having any clue about their own game. Why add a method thats totally useless? As previously stated just trying (with a chance below 50 percent) cost almost double as much as buying the thing right away. And thats only from 11 to 12.
  • jamespemt
    jamespemt Posts: 54 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    hooopso wrote: »
    As everyone stated its just another example of developers not having any clue about their own game. Why add a method thats totally useless? As previously stated just trying (with a chance below 50 percent) cost almost double as much as buying the thing right away. And thats only from 11 to 12.

    You mean this is just another thread that you people QQ in. Oh no it's so hard to get ToF
  • alyus
    alyus Posts: 348 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Even if you were to get 10 a day from check-ins, which i certainly don't. (idk about other people)
    That's 20 days to get 1 Refined SC, that is 160 days (half a year almost) to get enough to have a 32% chance, still not even a 1/2 chance to get it. and that is only on 1 piece of gear. True It would save you gold, but barely any when you set it next to the price its going to cost in the long run.

    there is quite a few people who have like i hear 70 accounts for check ins X.x so multiply that by 8 for each char and odds are they can get a couple hundred lol
    On 8/20/14 at 9:07 AM we have been informed that we lost another member of the FW team to go off to another title. RIP GreyjoyKraken. All hope for FW is forever lost...
  • Bhyl - Lionheart
    Bhyl - Lionheart Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    jamespemt wrote: »
    You mean this is just another thread that you people QQ in. Oh no it's so hard to get ToF

    Its easy to get tof if you are willing to do multiple accounts with check ins. IMO this is not a good strategy for encouraging new players to really get into the game. It scares people off. We need more players not less. Check ins are boring, tedious and unfortunately, one of the easiest ways to get tof.

    Shouldn't pwe make things easier/more attractive for players, not less?
  • AndrewBlan - Storm Legion
    AndrewBlan - Storm Legion Posts: 24 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    alyus wrote: »
    there is quite a few people who have like i hear 70 accounts for check ins X.x so multiply that by 8 for each char and odds are they can get a couple hundred lol



    Sadly, not everyone has the patience or the time for that, not that its very surprising. lol
  • Accuzon - Eyrda
    Accuzon - Eyrda Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Forsaken World - The most luxurious mmo on the planet.

    We are not allowed to talk about other games here so do not name them BUT can anyone here think of another game that makes it this expensive to build a competitive (pvp wise) character? I have played many mmos including PWI and I cannot think of another one where everything that is done strikes me as being punitive and overly expensive.

    This is almost like a slap in the face, where you decided, "o you qq so much? you make my life hard? haha, take this b.......h! BAM!".

    So now we got what we asked for. We got it all right. And so yet another thing that all I can do is sit and look at it.

    And these guys want me start using cash shop again? Jokes!
  • Shapelle - Lionheart
    Shapelle - Lionheart Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Was just checking out the Radiant Golden Chest. I have an alt, with an 11/12 ToK weapon. The SG cost per fortify attempt is 2d16g.

    Statistically, it's actually no different in terms of Star Crystal usage, on average, to use Meteor Crystals made from Refined Star Crystals at a 32% success rate, than it is to just persist at a 4% success rate without. The only difference is the amount of soul gold needed.

    On statistical average, it takes 25 Refined Star Crystals (consisting of 200 SCs in total) to fortify from 11->12, and 3.1 attempts. Let's round it for convenience to 3 attempts. Each Meteor Crystal costs 1.5sd to make, leaving us with 25 x 1.5 + 3 x 2.16 => 44 SD per 11->12 fort success (long term average).

    The alternative, is just to brute force it, at 4%. That's 25 attempts on average (long term, also 200 SCs) to succeed. 25 x 2d16g per attempt => 54SD


    Ok, so basically, ALL that the Refined Star Crystal is really doing, statistically here, is giving you a net 10 SD savings, for 25 x 200 => 5000 ToF's.

    Ok, so with that 5000 ToF's, we could have instead bought 500 Radiant Chests, at 27sg/chest on average, or 500 x 27 => 135SD

    So basically, what this deal is saying is this:

    ** Instead of spending 54SD per 11->12 success, you can instead spend 5000 ToF, to only pay 44SD per 11->12 success.

    THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE HERE

    It's so funny, um....I'm lost for words....

    Oh, I know...

    Get the worst deal, while it lasts, which will be forever, 'cos it's the worst deal....
  • Isock - Eyrda
    Isock - Eyrda Posts: 589 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    either the tof requirement is reduced or the orbs reduce their leafs price

    this is just plain wrong, we finally get what we wanted of the expansion and is priced so high

    i didnt expected anything and yet im let down
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  • Dendir - Nyos
    Dendir - Nyos Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I've got to admit the price is a tad insane also :s for 2 tries at +12ing you can buy a selvans...
    For this price you could buy enough sc to get 2 pieces +12 without meteor crystals probably!
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  • CountVonCo - Illyfue
    CountVonCo - Illyfue Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Here I was thinking some common sense prevailed...yet again been proven wrong, and right about how much people running the game dont understand the game.

    200 ToF is actually quite ludicrous. I was expecting 1/10 of that mount for exchanging for Refined Star Crystal.

    All this will do is make players create even more alts to spam checkins for ToF. I'm surprised that wasnt ninja removed from our version with this update.

    I'm sure the numbers for "actives" will increase on their statistics programme :D
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  • Accuzon - Eyrda
    Accuzon - Eyrda Posts: 74 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Your honor, I submit further evidence that they have very little understanding of just how expensive and difficult they have made certain elements of this game. This to me is indicative of a lack of time spent on/in the actual servers. The disconnect between their reality and ours is sufficient that they continue to go on without my cash support. While other gaming companies support their player base and try to make the experience enjoyable our team is clearly, in my estimation. making life as difficult as they possibly can.

    I rest my case.
  • Shapelle - Lionheart
    Shapelle - Lionheart Posts: 250 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Please see my maths analysis above.

    That was for worst case too.

    If forting anything other than a weapon, you're actually worse off (in terms of soul gold spent) using refined star crystals in terms of soul gold (excluding the ToF's used) than simply banging away repeatedly with the basic star crystals. At least do it the basic way, you didn't even need to spend any ToF's.

    In essence, this is a tax on fools. There is ZERO net gain, and in fact, there is a significant net loss from using Refined Star Crystals (RSCs).

    If the RSCs cost even 5sg from some vendor, and zero ToFs, it actually would STILL be beneficial in the majority of cases, to simply persists with the basic star crystals, aside from providing a "peace of mind" value, which in practise, amounts to zero change in star crystals consumed, and actually increases the soul gold consumed.

    ...and they're selling this thing for 200 ToFs apiece...

    I wonder what they cost to buy in the Chinese version? Anyone know? Or do Meteor Crystals just randomly drop there, like Star Crystals do here?
  • DethStrike - Storm Legion
    DethStrike - Storm Legion Posts: 183 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    I wonder what they cost to buy in the Chinese version? Anyone know? Or do Meteor Crystals just randomly drop there, like Star Crystals do here?

    CN actually cares about their player base and wants them happy. Henry probably hands it out to everyone at check-in thinking he's giving your toon a Werther's candy.
  • viiix
    viiix Posts: 1,270 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    The one thing I was excited about, only to be let down again. The price is insane, especially for newbies who already struggle with the SG costs and gathering SCs in the first place. Unless they meant for it to be 20 ToFs and somehow made it 200, I don't even see how they decided on this number.
  • chocobo55
    chocobo55 Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    guys this is all just a plan to make us just buy +12 gear instead of making it cause it's prolly cheaper LOL, o wait.. no1s gonna be making +12 gears now >_>
  • Sephmeister - Eyrda
    Sephmeister - Eyrda Posts: 1,249 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    chocobo55 wrote: »
    guys this is all just a plan to make us just buy +12 gear instead of making it cause it's prolly cheaper LOL, o wait.. no1s gonna be making +12 gears now >_>

    inb4 cash shop sells +12 gear parts and call them some fancy name :D
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  • Nyxa - Storm Legion
    Nyxa - Storm Legion Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Can a mod or someone repply to this and tell us what the hell is going on?
    Why FW staff makeing player base waiting 2 mounts on an important item; and when item finally added in game..was added for an insane amount of tofs?
    Was this a mistake? Someone put the rong tof price on Refined Star Cristals or what?

    Dont you dare delete this! better answer! i will really quit playing games from PWE if dont get answer too this.

    I'm going to sum this up in 2 words

    "Don't Know"
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  • bydlakq
    bydlakq Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    What to analize here. You need !@#% loads of money to have a pathetic chance to get your ONE pice of gear to 12/12.

    So my best hopes are that someone whoever was in charge of this just made a huge mistake.

    But those are just hopes, i rather think that this persona have totaly no clue how the game works or just trying to test some stuff making whole community without 12/12 gear raging in the proces. (I made my 12/12 long time ago, yet i cant stay quiet about somethink like this)
  • chocobo55
    chocobo55 Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    inb4 cash shop sells +12 gear parts and call them some fancy name :D

    shhhhh don't give them any ideas!!!
  • Firebat - Eyrda
    Firebat - Eyrda Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    edited July 2014
    Was just checking out the Radiant Golden Chest. I have an alt, with an 11/12 ToK weapon. The SG cost per fortify attempt is 2g16s.
    ....

    The alternative, is just to brute force it, at 4%. That's 25 attempts on average (long term, also 200 SCs) to succeed. 25 x 2g16s per attempt => 54SD

    Your math is wrong, or your costs are wrong. One or the other.

    2g16s per attempt seems low.... but ill go with it for now.
    2.16g x 25 = 54sg. gold... not diamond.

    it would equal 54sd if your fortify attempt cost 2d16g.
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