Leading mages and assassins of each server...

Viscom - Eyrda
Viscom - Eyrda Posts: 162 Arc User
edited June 2013 in Class Discussion
I will share some experiences and observations on Eyrda. Keep in mind these are just random nuggets of information:

-The server is very arena-heavy since the large guilds have carried their members to 2.7k, this means many players have low acc. Evasion is quite effective.



-Fire mages

have declined as the number of anti-CC on melee classes increase. Their utterly atrocious accuracy makes them effectively useless against evasion players. However, their burns are incredibly powerful in the end game environment where competitive players have high resists and take only 10k from conventional damage.



-Edge assassins

are unable to kill arena geared players. The crits that they rely on so singularly are cancelled out by on average mid 30s crit dodge and mid 200s crit def. Edge sins are also helpless against significant bards for example (there are 3-4 on our server), as they lack seed of agony. Their attacks do barely more damage than the shield's healing effect. At the moment edge sins are mainly used to counter the few non-arena geared people aka evasion vampires and potentially other sins. They are however still very fun and dramatic to play for squishing low geared noobs from stealth.



-Ice mages

suffer from a problem similar to edge sins. They simply do not have the damage to kill independently, despite their many wonderful CC mechanics. Since ice cube works on everything (including most importantly bards) ice mages are still highly valued and deadly in both arena and mass PvP. Ice mages are used strictly as support, while a true DPS (vampire, blood warrior, venom sin, fire mages, wind bard) is required to kill.



-Venom sins

have seed of darkness, making them by default somewhat playable against any class. However, their melee range and lack of mobility make them sitting targets against anything smart enough to kite.



-Wind mages and dark sins

I do not know. There are currently no significant ones on this server.



Are mages and sins doing something wrong on Eyrda, or is the scenery similar on other servers? I have always thought of these 2 classes as the most PvP oriented, so I am intrigued and disappointed by the situation.
Post edited by Viscom - Eyrda on
«13

Comments

  • omegavladd
    omegavladd Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Wind Mages = Dead in seconds. Unless the mage has Sinister Force which unfortunately has become utterly useless to have since it drains the mage of mana and has a high CD Wind mages die and/or end up killing themselves.

    In a simple setting all you really need is a war with BOR or a Prot with their reflection and the mage will essentially kill themselves with a simple and in most cases a single Purgatory of Lightning.

    While Lightning mages use to be good and decent for PVPVE thanks to their stun effects this was nerfed with a reworking of spells for various classes ever so many patches ago.

    Now all Wind Mages are good for is DPS in PVE setting since they stand 0 chance against Eva or resistance stacked characters and god forbid they go up against an Eva/Res stacked toon the mage may as well just log off at that point.

    The only thing that Wind mages have going for them is Thunder Tempest's ability to increase their casting speed and movement speed, allowing them to run the frak away as fast as possible. Please note my main is a mage of which I have played all 3 types of the Mage tree in various settings since this game left closed Beta.


    Others can argue or agree with me but its in my Class Opinion that Fire = PVE, Wind = PVE, Ice = PVP. Those are of the best choices that a player will have now thanks to PWE's Butcher of this class over the years in their "attempt" of Balancing of which has caused them to fall even pray to Divine Priests, Light Bards, and "shudders" Blood Vampires. 2 of 3 of the most well known weakest variations of their respective classes when it comes to PVP aspect of this game.
  • aestheticsbro
    aestheticsbro Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    omegavladd wrote: »
    Wind Mages = Dead in seconds. Unless the mage has Sinister Force which unfortunately has become utterly useless to have since it drains the mage of mana and has a high CD Wind mages die and/or end up killing themselves.

    In a simple setting all you really need is a war with BOR or a Prot with their reflection and the mage will essentially kill themselves with a simple and in most cases a single Purgatory of Lightning.

    While Lightning mages use to be good and decent for PVPVE thanks to their stun effects this was nerfed with a reworking of spells for various classes ever so many patches ago.

    Now all Wind Mages are good for is DPS in PVE setting since they stand 0 chance against Eva or resistance stacked characters and god forbid they go up against an Eva/Res stacked toon the mage may as well just log off at that point.

    The only thing that Wind mages have going for them is Thunder Tempest's ability to increase their casting speed and movement speed, allowing them to run the frak away as fast as possible. Please note my main is a mage of which I have played all 3 types of the Mage tree in various settings since this game left closed Beta.


    Others can argue or agree with me but its in my Class Opinion that Fire = PVE, Wind = PVE, Ice = PVP. Those are of the best choices that a player will have now thanks to PWE's Butcher of this class over the years in their "attempt" of Balancing of which has caused them to fall even pray to Divine Priests, Light Bards, and "shudders" Blood Vampires. 2 of 3 of the most well known weakest variations of their respective classes when it comes to PVP aspect of this game.

    I overall agree with you except on fire mages being PVE. Even if at early stages of PVP they seem relatively useless compared to lets say frost, at endgame stacking dots can be very deadly, and with their naturally high critchance from dyos and fire shield they can pull crits even on arena geared chars with high dodge. Teamed up with a divine priest and a frost mage a fire mage is one of the best dds you can have for 3s imo.
  • Satayra - Illyfue
    Satayra - Illyfue Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I dont get how 30% dodge counters sins on your server. That isnt the case at ours.
    I got 35% dodge and I still get crit like hell by sins and many of them can 1-2 hit me. I dont have maxed crit def as it is 160% with lvl 3 crystallines (which may be the reason I die relatively fast) but sitll :S

    But as example someone at our server tried to go fully crit def and reached 250%+ (a priest with 80+ res) and still got crit by 44k`s by sins. Do you have such bad sins there or what :S?

    Assasin edge tree supports crit damage built so well, it is so hard to counter
  • Viscom - Eyrda
    Viscom - Eyrda Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you have 160% crit def you probably have pretty low HP and resis too. I am personally pure eva (low 500s eva) and even I have 225% crit def...

    I am talking about fights between players with mid 200 crit def and 700+ resis. As I mentioned edge sins are exceptionally fun for squishing squishies and it seems like you are a squishy.

    Edge sins are countered very badly by CC and the simple fact that bards exist.

    Other than that they are situationally still good on our server. I have all the geared ones in my guild actually, they are all kindred.

    Are there edge sins on your server that dominate 3v3 or IR? I would be interested in arena vids of them.
  • Brim_McRoy - Eyrda
    Brim_McRoy - Eyrda Posts: 3,047 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you have 160% crit def you probably have pretty low HP and resis too. I am personally pure eva (low 500s eva) and even I have 225% crit def...

    I am talking about fights between players with mid 200 crit def and 700+ resis. As I mentioned edge sins are exceptionally fun for squishing squishies and it seems like you are a squishy.

    Edge sins are countered very badly by CC and the simple fact that bards exist.

    Other than that they are situationally still good on our server. I have all the geared ones in my guild actually, they are all kindred.

    Are there edge sins on your server that dominate 3v3 or IR? I would be interested in arena vids of them.

    low 500 ive already seen someone with close to 600 :eek:
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  • Inzho - Eyrda
    Inzho - Eyrda Posts: 260 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    low 500 ive already seen someone with close to 600 :eek:

    You would need 800 accy to hit that person right?
  • Brim_McRoy - Eyrda
    Brim_McRoy - Eyrda Posts: 3,047 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    You would need 800 accy to hit that person right?

    idk MagicalWitch can hit em reliably idr her acc though
    FWs only Acolyte of Khorne --> warhammer40k.wikia.com/wiki/Khorne
    Loki and Crabclaw: The Lost Gods of FW

    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lol!! DeadlyTones here have 350ish crit def.. prolly 360 now with golden boots..
    but yeah.. 30% crit dodge should nullify Sins crits out of stealth pretty effectively..

    im crit def focused and i get up to 240 without arena set.. mayb 270 with arena set. and only lv3 cristallines.. prolly 300 if i ever get the lv4 cristallines xD

  • aestheticsbro
    aestheticsbro Posts: 92 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lol!! DeadlyTones here have 350ish crit def.. prolly 360 now with golden boots..
    but yeah.. 30% crit dodge should nullify Sins crits out of stealth pretty effectively..

    im crit def focused and i get up to 240 without arena set.. mayb 270 with arena set. and only lv3 cristallines.. prolly 300 if i ever get the lv4 cristallines xD

    Well as far as know from reading the forums DeadlyTonnes is water so he can drop some dodge id's and go for 2x critdef (or god forbid 3x) ids on arena set and rings cause he doesn't need to avoid stunlock. Damn those waterbards :(
  • Celennes - Illyfue
    Celennes - Illyfue Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Lol!! DeadlyTones here have 350ish crit def.. prolly 360 now with golden boots..
    but yeah.. 30% crit dodge should nullify Sins crits out of stealth pretty effectively..

    im crit def focused and i get up to 240 without arena set.. mayb 270 with arena set. and only lv3 cristallines.. prolly 300 if i ever get the lv4 cristallines xD

    Same here, I get about 270% crit def and don't have crystalline IV's yet. Crit def built aswell as mage :)
    Celennes - Level 90 frost mage. New sig coming "soon". | <Balerion Slayer> |
    <Hero of Summit of Elements> |
  • Satayra - Illyfue
    Satayra - Illyfue Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you have 160% crit def you probably have pretty low HP and resis too. I am personally pure eva (low 500s eva) and even I have 225% crit def...

    I am talking about fights between players with mid 200 crit def and 700+ resis. As I mentioned edge sins are exceptionally fun for squishing squishies and it seems like you are a squishy.

    60k hp, 70k in vampform, 600 phys res ;\

    But being squishy is relative, I understand its squishy for you, but not that much here
    But if you are talking about 700+ resist, only like ~5 ppl have that here
  • Kateena - Storm Legion
    Kateena - Storm Legion Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    If you have 160% crit def you probably have pretty low HP and resis too. I am personally pure eva (low 500s eva) and even I have 225% crit def...

    I am talking about fights between players with mid 200 crit def and 700+ resis. As I mentioned edge sins are exceptionally fun for squishing squishies and it seems like you are a squishy.

    Edge sins are countered very badly by CC and the simple fact that bards exist.

    Other than that they are situationally still good on our server. I have all the geared ones in my guild actually, they are all kindred.

    Are there edge sins on your server that dominate 3v3 or IR? I would be interested in arena vids of them.

    How is it possible that pure evasion build has 225% crit defense AND 500+ evasion. Are you an edge sin? As far as I can tell, 225% crit defense makes you not pure evasion, since you must have some crit def IDs or pieces unless you got crit def/evasion IDs on some dark purple pieces.

    I'm rocking 180 crit def and 440 evasion and I AM pure evasion.
  • Kateena - Storm Legion
    Kateena - Storm Legion Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    -Edge assassins

    are unable to kill arena geared players. The crits that they rely on so singularly are cancelled out by on average mid 30s crit dodge and mid 200s crit def. Edge sins are also helpless against significant bards for example (there are 3-4 on our server), as they lack seed of agony. Their attacks do barely more damage than the shield's healing effect. At the moment edge sins are mainly used to counter the few non-arena geared people aka evasion vampires and potentially other sins. They are however still very fun and dramatic to play for squishing low geared noobs from stealth.

    Are mages and sins doing something wrong on Eyrda, or is the scenery similar on other servers? I have always thought of these 2 classes as the most PvP oriented, so I am intrigued and disappointed by the situation.

    I can only comment on edge sins. Edge sins do well in moderately high scaling (squishing squishies), but against 700 resist/35dodge/250def toons, even red hands is not enough to kill anyone. I can still occasionally crit coming out of stealth, but I no longer count on it as I do against people without dodge. The value in an edge sin lies in controlling support with the stuns/silences available, but like you've said, they themselves are too vulnerable to kiting/CC.

    If you want to see real fun, hit Divine Uphold, turn on wrath and one skill anyone with sacrifice on a blood warrior. That's the future (or present?) of melee classes in FW.
  • mrsooshi
    mrsooshi Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I dont get how 30% dodge counters sins on your server. That isnt the case at ours.
    I got 35% dodge and I still get crit like hell by sins and many of them can 1-2 hit me. I dont have maxed crit def as it is 160% with lvl 3 crystallines (which may be the reason I die relatively fast) but sitll :S

    But as example someone at our server tried to go fully crit def and reached 250%+ (a priest with 80+ res) and still got crit by 44k`s by sins. Do you have such bad sins there or what :S?

    Assasin edge tree supports crit damage built so well, it is so hard to counter

    Sins on ur server must have crazy cc then. I have 43.75% base and 49.75% with pet buff and i struggle to crit people with 35%+ dodge.
  • Satayra - Illyfue
    Satayra - Illyfue Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mrsooshi wrote: »
    Sins on ur server must have crazy cc then. I have 43.75% base and 49.75% with pet buff and i struggle to crit people with 35%+ dodge.

    Every sin with 20% crit crits after stealth, not saying its high, but they crit.
    The few that have 40%~ crit with ease ye. idk how it can be hard for you to crit ppl wtih 35% dodge, even without stealth :S
  • ILikeBigGu - Illyfue
    ILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    mrsooshi wrote: »
    Sins on ur server must have crazy cc then. I have 43.75% base and 49.75% with pet buff and i struggle to crit people with 35%+ dodge.

    Serious ones are ~50 chance(=with pet buffs), and then its alot of high crit bonuses on that too through skills especially as those go all in dps runes. highest mage is near 60 or he actually is 60+? not sure as swapping ids/gear alot.. i got 50 base as well and im marksman, high cc is pretty normal at our server
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  • Viscom - Eyrda
    Viscom - Eyrda Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So it seems like edge sins are alive and well in other servers.

    The only thing preventing me from playing edge is their inability to deal with water bards I guess. I don't like the fact that edge sins can only lay on the ground with their legs open against water bubble...

    There are quite a few geared bards on Eyrda.

    Do these sins with 50% crit chance (so I hear) on your server remotely work against bards? There are 3 bards on Eyrda with extremely crit def and resis; warriors and sins with h and 80+ mastery barely hit more than their shield heals.

    Speaking of bards, I feel truly sorry for poor warriors and prots... Those classes must truly be helpless.

    IMO the only way to kill bards is to purge shield (Mage) or have extremely high non critical base yellow damage (vampire charmed strike stacks, bloodlust warrior, wind bard and venom raw damage).

    If you think about it ele wars and edge sins have low base modifiers (100% and 115%, I am not counting ts here since that hardly ever crits). crits are the only reason thy hit more than light bards.

    This is such an incoherent rant.
  • ILikeBigGu - Illyfue
    ILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    So it seems like edge sins are alive and well in other servers.

    The only thing preventing me from playing eye is their inability to deal wig water bards I guess. I don't like the fact that edge sins can only lay on the ground with their legs open against water bubble...

    There are quite a few geared bards on Eyrda.

    Do these sins with 50% crit chance (so I hear) on your server remotely work against bards? There are 3 bards on Eyrda with extremely crit def and resis; warriors and sins with h and 80+ mastery barely hit more than their shield heals.

    Speaking of bards, I feel truly sorry for poor warriors and prots... Those classes must truly be helpless.

    IMO the only way to kill bards is to purge shield (Mage) or have extremely high non critical base yellow damage (vampire charmed strike stacks, bloodlust warrior, wind bard and venom raw damage).

    If you think about it ele wars and edge sins have low base modifiers (100% and 115%, I am not counting ts here since that hardly ever crits). crits are the only reason thy hit more than light bards.

    This is such an incoherent rant.

    We dont really have any successful bards tbh, cant speak for the other servers- only girls playing bards here imo and at this server they just want to help people and stuff which means its pretty much pve all the way for them= ALMOST 100% windies for all instances/KS
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    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
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  • Viscom - Eyrda
    Viscom - Eyrda Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    I can't believe that lol, water bards are currently the strongest class in our server for small scale pvp. Only 6 people on this server can even kill them efficiently. They are immortal against damage, cc, all game mechanics. They don't even kite properly or slow/freeze, just faceroll on keyboard and eventually win because they simply are not killable.

    If there ever is a cross server event I am sure we will be impressed by the strength of edge sins and mms on your server, but you guys will be astonished by the outrageous godliness of bards on Eyrda...

    The current metagame of strong warriors and bards on Eyrda is I believe a reaction movement against the once unchecked domination of edge sins. People eventually got 1-shot so many times that they decided they would only play classes that can't die to cc and burst damage(wars and bards).

    Even now, when there are no significant edge sins on Eyrda, people still blindly get physical resis first.
  • Viscom - Eyrda
    Viscom - Eyrda Posts: 162 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Oh and btw, sonata of water rune. Bubble is not only impossible to break on time but stacks even 2x.

    Enough said about the advantages of bards. The water bard is still after all a low to medium damage class, and this becomes important in mass pvp (which happens alot on Eyrda). Then, it's the warriors with slash storm and vamps with feast that dominate the crowds.
  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    .............
    50 and 60% BASE crit chance???

    what the fcking hax is that??

    full 8 CC pieces with double/triple CC id, lv5 GS, crit chance neck with bonus craft and crit chance set??

    wtf.. seriously.. i find it rly hard to believe a mage has 60% crit chance base.. lol

    on the other hand.. i never had much problems with water bards as a prot.. disarm OP..
    only water bards i cant do **** to.. are the ones that outgear me by 80lvls of mastery/resistances and 100 chroma.. lol

  • Satayra - Illyfue
    Satayra - Illyfue Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    .............
    50 and 60% BASE crit chance???

    what the fcking hax is that??

    full 8 CC pieces with double/triple CC id, lv5 GS, crit chance neck with bonus craft and crit chance set??

    wtf.. seriously.. i find it rly hard to believe a mage has 60% crit chance base.. lol

    on the other hand.. i never had much problems with water bards as a prot.. disarm OP..
    only water bards i cant do **** to.. are the ones that outgear me by 80lvls of mastery/resistances and 100 chroma.. lol

    Yes a fire mage with 60% crit chance. He highly sacrificed his survivability for that though, even with high res.

    Guns is the only MM on our server with that wtf crit chance.. Just 1 other good one, but he has just high base damage.

    And only 1 sin with 50% crit chance, few with 40+% which is high imo, if you take into account that they have numorous ways to up that % + crit dmg.

    Only 1 ,maybe 2.. good waterbards here (Deasar) and a not so good one but still tanky xD (Bluetits)
  • im2gr84u
    im2gr84u Posts: 695 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    Full crit chance, lmao that must be a hell of a fail build.

  • cureaustria
    cureaustria Posts: 497 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    on one server there are waterbards on mass
    you say MM are proudly presenting pvp scenerie on your server

    and what will happen with cross server?
    evrything goes down in seconds by dd priests

    :D

    and by the way, i think 60% base crit is possible for sure because i have 35%
    with not ONE crit ident, not eveen amulett because i like +2 crit evasion
  • Celennes - Illyfue
    Celennes - Illyfue Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    on one server there are waterbards on mass
    you say MM are proudly presenting pvp scenerie on your server

    and what will happen with cross server?
    evrything goes down in seconds by dd priests

    :D

    and by the way, i think 60% base crit is possible for sure because i have 35%
    with not ONE crit ident, not eveen amulett because i like +2 crit evasion

    Well we have only 1 very strong MM, and one strong. 2 waterbards that are pretty good for 2 different reasons.

    And yes very possible to reach 60% crit chance, not easy though.. and he could have more with GS5, like some have here.
    Celennes - Level 90 frost mage. New sig coming "soon". | <Balerion Slayer> |
    <Hero of Summit of Elements> |
  • Celennes - Illyfue
    Celennes - Illyfue Posts: 526 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    im2gr84u wrote: »
    Full crit chance, lmao that must be a hell of a fail build.

    Seems not, this MM has golden boots, golden hands, around 70k hp 470% crit dmg (around that), high base attack, lvl 95-100 earth and fire mastery (not totally sure) and some resistances.. so yea pretty nice.. only lacks bit of survival
    Celennes - Level 90 frost mage. New sig coming "soon". | <Balerion Slayer> |
    <Hero of Summit of Elements> |
  • Satayra - Illyfue
    Satayra - Illyfue Posts: 519 Arc User
    edited June 2013
    im2gr84u wrote: »
    Full crit chance, lmao that must be a hell of a fail build.

    In mass pvp where he doesnt get attacked.. he owns like hell, lol