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Will marksmen ever be useful in pvp?

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  • Aeorxhen - EyrdaAeorxhen - Eyrda Posts: 8 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    umm have you noticed that are no high ranking mms? and no eva mms? coincidence? if a mage can be effective with eva with no buffs and no talents than a mm can too thats common sense, i have a mm he is eva and he does just fine, he is a alt so he will never be geared the way he should be to be a top tier pvper and thats fine but eva and mm go together same as sin and eva go together...work with whats given to you

    Sure if we had 2 stealths and the ability to silence people for 6+ seconds multiple times, sure if we could freeze people for 6+ seconds at a near 100% rate multiple times, sure if we had a self heal like vamps as well as the ability to freeze repeatedly and a sleep that doesnt require a 5 sec cast time, of course if we had a shield that did not last a paltry 10 seconds, I would in a heartbeat if we had some other form or survivability albeit a heal, gauranteed cc skill or something but ya know what I don't.

    What you fail to realise is that in addition to evasion classes like vamp, assassins and even bards and mages have multiple methods of defending incoming damage or rendering their opponent incapable of damaging them for a period of time. Vamp and bards can regen some health, mages can transform you and get red hand and assasins can stealth and get red hand. Precision for sure has no such abilities. Soul has a 60% chance on a 6 second silence and burst has to have great timing to get their silence of.

    There is 0 comparison between mm and these other classes because an mm is relying solely on a 10 second shield. Furthermore while bards and priest can summon their bubbles from the get go and run around, ours only last 10 seconds. It leaves us having to wait till our screen indicates we are being attacked or have superb anticipation before we summon it. Soul can resummon it making it last about 20 seconds but precision or burst cant.

    Yes an eva mm can work and perhaps does work. I'm sure it does. Question is how does it stack up in comparison to say for e.g. an eva vamp or even an eva built bard. You are delusional if you think the levels of survivability are on par.

    As someone else mentioned I would live with being the games squishiest class if we had the highest attack power or dps. I could live with that. The fact is we are the squishiest and we are not even in the top 3 of dps or even dph.

    No matter how you slice it mms have been hard done by the developers. For me personally I spent quite a bit on my mm and I feel very badly that in the end game I am nothing more than a free kill in most forms of pvp. It makes matters worse when people I thought cared about the game make laughing sport (.....its still fun.....) at someone who has been a dedicated and paying customer for the last 4 years now.
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    600-700 acc people are squishy as hell too though. What makes you think you as eva will be squishier than them who build it all around acc?

    How many acc debuff are there that have shorter cd's than cloud?
    Roar -90
    Shadow Spikes -15 per orb
    Hunter's Mark -71
    There's more but I can''t be bothered listing all of them
    On top of
    Now how many +acc talents there are across all classes - LOTS

    Now ok we get debuffed and pop cloud ok we may win one round - what is a mm gonna do for the next 5 mins?

    Actually even better and more common example seeing as you're a sin

    WTF is cloud gonna do for us against a sin in stealth? Any competent sin will just wait. Because we'll have lower HP going Eva route and lower crit dodge and def as opposed to arena sets the odds of being one/2shot exponentially increase.


    umm have you noticed that are no high ranking mms? and no eva mms? coincidence? if a mage can be effective with eva with no buffs and no talents than a mm can too thats common sense, i have a mm he is eva and he does just fine, he is a alt so he will never be geared the way he should be to be a top tier pvper and thats fine but eva and mm go together same as sin and eva go together...work with whats given to you

    spend some time on the MM forums we've gone eva stacking to all sorts of permutations. EVA= FAIL come end game for us. Come talk to me when you have proper experience gearing a eva mm in 80's arena
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • homosimpsonshomosimpsons Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    How many acc debuff are there that have shorter cd's than cloud?
    Roar -90
    Shadow Spikes -15 per orb
    Hunter's Mark -71
    There's more but I can''t be bothered listing all of them
    On top of
    Now how many +acc talents there are across all classes - LOTS

    ya like that doesn't affects other evasion classes.

    MMs are gimped in a way though, have no idea what the devs are thinking with MMs pvp. That class is just not for pvp.
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    ya like that doesn't affects other evasion classes.

    MMs are gimped in a way though, have no idea what the devs are thinking with MMs pvp. That class is just not for pvp.

    Here's the thing the other eva classes aren't relying on just pure eva and a 5 min cd skill as has been pointed out for basic survival.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • homosimpsonshomosimpsons Posts: 60 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    Here's the thing the other eva classes aren't relying on just pure eva and a 5 min cd skill as has been pointed out for basic survival.

    no classes in this game should be just relying on just pure evasion though. you can't expect people to miss you 100% even if you are evasion, that's where your resistance and crit defense/dodge comes in.

    i don't think mm is viable for end game pvp right now. waiting for pwe to balance out pvp is a tall order.
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    no classes in this game should be just relying on just pure evasion though. you can't expect people to miss you 100% even if you are evasion, that's where your resistance and crit defense/dodge comes in.

    i don't think mm is viable for end game pvp right now. waiting for pwe to balance out pvp is a tall order.

    No that's my point, we don't have a reliable cc or survival skills otherwise. The improved the shield which is good and shows a willingness to listen (unless that was just bugged/poorly translated) so i give them credit for that. But there are a few other things in combination that make the class **** poor.

    Also if no-one complains what happens? It'll just be the same **** over and over again. At least by complaining the grievances are there in public and documented. Devs can't turn around and say we don't know about it because it's been plastered all over the forums for years. At least on western servers not sure what the story is on CN servers. Unless mods want to pull the good old "put this in the bug report section" excuse. I find it hard to believe that none of this is being at least somewhat reported to devs - whether they could be bothered to do anything else is a different story. We all acknowledge as a player base the shortcomings of a mm in a pvp setting so why are we somehow not entitled to vent and keep bringing it up? It's an exercise in futility I admit, but hey you never know.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Bump? ;>
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
    youtube.com/watch?v=o3_ds-W-Hpo
  • TimSnow - LionheartTimSnow - Lionheart Posts: 571 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Bump? ;>

    Pointing out, PvP may never be balanced, MMs will be forever gimped, PWE don't seem to care.....Unless things change, I won't spend a dime.

    I tried MM and honestly, the lack of DPS with the other downfalls, being a low level MM, is hard work, boring and inefficient in my opinion.

    Kudos to those who endured and got into the 70s as an MM, I applaud you.


    PWE, please fix the **** and let's get this over with. Thank you.

    P.S. Semi-off topic, and I don't care... Mages are squishy, so what? We also have a lot of DPS AoEs, and if built right, the class is quite effective. I've played mage for a very long time on MMOs aswell as other games.

    Mages have distinct advantages that some seem to ignore. Squishy, yes. But our range isn't as limited to most. We can fight long and short range. Built as a tank and DPS, this can be both effective and useful. Learn it, build it, do it. :)


    "You'll never learn anything, unless you take the time to listen, pay attention, and work together."
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Bump? ;>

    There's really not a lot left to say - I think until we see some improvement we're just fighting a losing battle. I mean all we're asking for is a fighting chance against equally geared people. Right now you're just hoping for a lucky stun/lucky silence and not being interrupted or not being 2-3 hit by a sin out of stealth or chain cc'd. Slowly but surely all the original pvp MM are going - MM mains not alts. The ones who sufferred the most and simply because no-one listens to the playerbase. It's sad because if all you get in pvp are the same classes over and over again you get no variety and pvp stagnates

    While I want all the MM going to the tournament to do well, a part of me wants you guys to be dominated and honestly get your butts kicked so hard it's embarrassing just to prove a point to devs about how poor the class is. I don't mean that to be vindictive or be an @sshole but it's a chance maybe to make devs wake up and open their eyes. The proof will be there for all to see in across all versions of the game.

    I'm also tired of wasting my time responding to pve badasses who don't pvp butting in so I'm not even gonna bother responding to those.


    TL;DR good luck in the tournament fellow mm
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    There's really not a lot left to say - I think until we see some improvement we're just fighting a losing battle. I mean all we're asking for is a fighting chance against equally geared people. Right now you're just hoping for a lucky stun/lucky silence and not being interrupted or not being 2-3 hit by a sin out of stealth or chain cc'd. Slowly but surely all the original pvp MM are going - MM mains not alts. The ones who sufferred the most and simply because no-one listens to the playerbase. It's sad because if all you get in pvp are the same classes over and over again you get no variety and pvp stagnates

    While I want all the MM going to the tournament to do well, a part of me wants you guys to be dominated and honestly get your butts kicked so hard it's embarrassing just to prove a point to devs about how poor the class is. I don't mean that to be vindictive or be an @sshole but it's a chance maybe to make devs wake up and open their eyes. The proof will be there for all to see in across all versions of the game.

    I'm also tired of wasting my time responding to pve badasses who don't pvp butting in so I'm not even gonna bother responding to those.


    TL;DR good luck in the tournament fellow mm
    Yes the point wasn't so much for feedback just getting it up here abit extra, at least they have seen the thread.
    Then they are aware of the problem even if they dont care/ can't do anything about it.

    I'm probably moving to this werewolf character anyway when it get released
    (since everyone else start at zero as well i guess its even)

    And thank you, will try to record it as well :o
    Mainly to study the opponents, as im certain we will get smashed down, even if we would have the best lineups from all servers (which we are not right now..) from illfyue its just sirwilliam me bluedragon and aurora who is active and doing arena, rest are people sitting at score, and as i understood same story about the other servers toplist
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
    Credits to BerenOneHand for the awesome sig

    New arena video (2015/05/01):
    youtube.com/watch?v=o3_ds-W-Hpo
  • seraphim90seraphim90 Posts: 80
    edited September 2012
    @iLikeBigGuns

    Ok so lets see....mm with lvl 40 gear full pve crit chance build, with misthrouds in his gear instead of crystalines, and from what i've seen fighting him, none or rly low resistance, complains about being squishy in pvp.

    I calculated you can get 65% more crit defense, 7% dodge, 95 res and 10k more HP by changing ur pve gear for pvp (regarding score that you already have in 3v3), without even losing that much crit chance.

    Sure you would do a bit less dmg in pve, but can't have it all.

    Give any class ur gear and he would suck in pvp, stop QQ midget.



    P.S Sorry if this was already noted, can't read every post on this thread...just felt like sharing
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    seraphim90 wrote: »
    Ok so lets see....mm with lvl 40 gear full pve crit chance build, with misthrouds in his gear instead of crystalines, and from what i've seen fighting him, none or rly low resistance, complains about being squishy in pvp.

    I calculated you can get 65% more crit defense, 7% dodge, 95 res and 10k more HP by changing ur pve gear for pvp (regarding score that you already have in 3v3), without even losing that much crit chance.

    Sure you would do a bit less dmg in pve, but can't have it all.

    Give any class ur gear and he would suck in pvp, stop QQ midget.



    P.S Sorry if this was already noted, can't read every post on this thread...just felt like sharing

    Eh? Who are you qq ing about
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
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