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Will marksmen ever be useful in pvp?

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  • Ghundam - EyrdaGhundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I never said MMs don't have horrible base stats. I said that mages have worse stats.

    Also like I said, it's not 1v1. Priests can't heal your mana. Well not fast anyway (Combined Healing can but tiny amount).

    The thing with soul MM is that its decent in instance still for dps, ice mage completely sucks.

    As far as PvE goes I would rather be precision or burst. Soul dps too bullet dependant. Also take note the time we take to use our bullet regen skill. We dont attack during that time so soul dps is very up and down It depends on what skills we use in our rotation as well. Burst of rage really spikes our dps but it also sucks up bullets. I won't argue about a ice mage dps its true. I wouldn't go ice for dps.


    When I think about various instances I would rather have an ice mage than a soul mm and I mean the instances that are important to me e.g. LCS (no one ever wants a soul mm there), GT (soul mm absolutely sucks in GT) etc etc.

    Back on the PvP track (since it a PvP server) I would much rather an ice mage than a soul mm. Also where did I mention 1v1 unless I am misunderstanding you. I pointed out the arena which is 3v3 or 6v6 and Fjord which is 12v12. In both cases you have ways to regen mana without reliance on a priest. The only thing we can rely on for bullets is our skills which by the way have a % chance of working lol. You just have to love how almost nothing about a mm is guaranteed except our death in pvp!
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I admit I don't know much about the bullet system, I thought it is similar to the assassin orbs (blast/agony) but obviously with a 20 clip. Didn't know it had a percentage of generating o.O

    Aren't there some self buffs that give bullets with 100% certainty though?
  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I admit I don't know much about the bullet system, I thought it is similar to the assassin orbs (blast/agony) but obviously with a 20 clip. Didn't know it had a percentage of generating o.O

    Aren't there some self buffs that give bullets with 100% certainty though?

    There are selfbuff (2sec cast) which give 4 bullet guaranteed and if you put +4 into talent it got 60% chance to generate another extra bullet for each bullet in that reload, so in best case you get 8 bullets. However that only goes for soul.
    Aswell soul tree got spare ammo skill (1sec casttime) which give you 5 safe bullets
    however all of these are long cooldown and you dont really want to spend time doing it in arena except the waiting room.

    We also have one skill giving 30% chance to activate soul catching (as base, however we can spend +7 talents to raise this chance by 5% each talent spent) when that skill is activated fire of will (lowest damage skill) generate one bullet per time.
    Also have in a talent which gives fire of will +40% chance to generate bullets even when soul catching is not active..
    Also soul discharge generate one bullet (every time) however ofc not with bullet active, then its +/- 0. Thats also only for soul tree

    And keep in mind each skill we use cost 1 bullet when bullets are active. and the 6shot cost 3 as base, each shot having a 30% chance to cost a double bullet but cut the cooldown in half.

    And in arena we really do not have any place to farm bullets we have to try cc the best we can and dps which the bullet skills dont really do well at, and after one round even if you dont die your usally down at zero bullets or close if its an even matched team. + as told before if you die you lose all bullets
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  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Quick Reloading should have no cooldown in arena lobby, like warrior stances and other buffs.
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  • ILikeBigGu - IllyfueILikeBigGu - Illyfue Posts: 1,066 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I wish our cc was like 100% against enemies thats hunters marked, and let non marked stay at 60%
    still id be so happy with 100% mark so i could live with 0% chance unmarked.

    and that Invigorate (the selfblessing run skill) would remove silence as well.
    and for pve it kinda sucks we run out of skills to use and base it on auto atk
    (except if you use extreme sniping but 5seconds just isn't worth the effort)

    Would just even out the odds completely, would make such a huge diffrence

    Right now we can only do 1. mark 2. soul snipe 3. excorcising bullet which is 5 seconds spent, and still no cc due to "bad luck" (its 60% success when marked, 0 when not marked). It can just get so frustrating
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  • Ghundam - EyrdaGhundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    My issue independent of class is how can you give high damage classes such long ccs. It is rediculously unreasonable that an assassin have a 6+ second silence. Soul mm gets a 6 second silence on a 60% chance yes but the skill is medium cast time and relatively long cooldown (sorry for not having the numbers but my mind isnt totally there right now to remember).

    All of our other ccs last for 2 seconds. Pulse shots ensnare is an utter joke due to melees being able to teleport out of ensnare e.g. assault.
  • plusonecharismaplusonecharisma Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    My MM toon is OliverNorth, some will know me and some wont, that is irrelevant. MMs are way underpowered in comparison to our proposed role, actual role, and every other class and build in the game.

    If they every balanced the classes properly, I would be devastating. As it is now, I can only hope they balance our class or offer a cash shop item so we can change class without too much penalty. Hell I would lose all my runes and call it fair if everything else was transferred to a different class.

    Those MMs who you see in game that you think are not underpowered, have spent the time or diamonds to get there and the hard truth is, they would be devastating if they had rolled a different class than MM.

    TL:dR

    If you were trying to make the most OP hybrid class in-game by combining talents and attributes from all the classes, there is not one thing that the MM would contribute to your build besides loli-fashion.
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I never said MMs don't have horrible base stats. I said that mages have worse stats.

    Also like I said, it's not 1v1. Priests can't heal your mana. Well not fast anyway (Combined Healing can but tiny amount).

    The thing with soul MM is that its decent in instance still for dps, ice mage completely sucks.

    Your base stats maybe fractionally lower but as you said you have infinitely more survivability because you have quick cast times and reliable cc. Those slightly better base stats mean nothing. The extra 50hp or 50atk base increase isn't worth a cup of spit in in exchange for reliable CC and quick cast times. It's not like our base stats on gear is warrior like.

    Also a bad pve class will still get taken to pve instances. It's not really gonna matter a great deal if a mage spams Fury of Ice instead of Rage of Demons. Let's face it, PVE contnent in this game is so mind numbingly brainless you can sleepwalk through all instances.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yeah, I agree about the stats thing not mattering much, and "utility" being much more important (as in, skills, you know).

    But DPS and AoE DPS is still very important. Especially if you don't have "friends" (which will happen at some point, or your friends are unavailable) -- not to mention for example, GoS 8th boss where you have to kill adds in 15 seconds. People actually don't take ice mages to GoS unless there's another mage (fire or wind) or burst MM in there. Which means you aren't even filling the AoE spot.
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Yeah, I agree about the stats thing not mattering much, and "utility" being much more important (as in, skills, you know).

    But DPS and AoE DPS is still very important. Especially if you don't have "friends" (which will happen at some point, or your friends are unavailable) -- not to mention for example, GoS 8th boss where you have to kill adds in 15 seconds. People actually don't take ice mages to GoS unless there's another mage (fire or wind) or burst MM in there. Which means you aren't even filling the AoE spot.
    Good luck being a soul mm in gos then
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Crum - EyrdaCrum - Eyrda Posts: 506 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    No you stop QQing over MM for things they aren't even worst at. They don't have it worst in everything. I'm tired of all MMs saying they have everything worst now even with some obvious OP things.

    By OP I assume you mean our wrath generating and our shield. Guns explained the bullet system: When we're in crackshot mode (actively using bullets for more dmg), every skill we use costs a bullet. Shield costs 3 bullets and our 6 shot costs 4 bullets. We regenerate 4 bullets every 90 seconds, 60 if fully talented (8 talent points after some changes, used to be 4). Furthermore, our one skill that used to give us a bullet doesn't work anymore in crackshot mode. So quit with the OP ****, our shield is no more circumstantial than yours. If I die, and I use quick reloading to get 4 bullets back I start the round being able to either use my 6 shot for some quick wrath, or save bullets for my shield; can't do both.

    And speaking of wrath since you mentioned how awesome the 6 shot is: PoL does 6 independent hits too, so mages have exactly the same chance of generating wrath as us (of course, PoL being AoE AND hitting harder than our own 6 shot since again, mages>mm in everything :D). Granted, you would have to go wind, but the 6 shot is a single tree skill as well.

    Yes MM is still worst in combination, but wrath generation and survival is bliss compared to mage too. You said MM has lowest stats on gear except priest? Uh, did you forget mages by any chance? :rolleyes: The most gimped class stat-wise (except for arena gear).

    Our base stats may be equally sucky, I'll give you that. But your skill damage FAR exceeds ours. Your skill base attack % is higher, your bonus damage is higher (especially since it's modified by max mana), and again, you have more cc. Speaking about wind and fire trees in respect to soul and burst here.

    And since you brought up survivability. Apart from our shield (which I explained above is not OP at all since it needs bullets and we can still be cced) we have cloud. -240 acc if fully talented in the soul tree. I can't tell you how many times I dropped cloud and had people not get a single miss on me (especially sins and vamps since they get sick acc talents). Unless you go eva build (which is stupid endgame for mm), people with 600-700 acc WON'T MISS. So, if you had the option of being dead or being stuck in an ice cube with your wrath slowly running out but completely invincible (thus forcing the opponent to switch targets and giving the priest a chance to fully heal you) which would you choose?
    Quick Reloading should have no cooldown in arena lobby, like warrior stances and other buffs.

    I wish. Acc buff doesn't have a cd. Quick reloading is on a 90/60 sec cooldown depending on talents, so we start the round with 4-6 bullets on average.
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Well yeah, but AoEs are nerfed in wrath generation. So unless PoL hits at least 4 targets (that are also close to each other, or orbs will fly all over the place) then it will be worse than BoR for orb generation, considering AoEs are 1/4 nerfed...

    I'm really sick of this AoE nerf in everything, look at burst MMs and why they are so crappy right now. Because they nerf for the rarest lamest PvP that still exists (and has no rewards of course) aka mass PvP. Instead, they should have made it such that, if an AoE hits 10+ targets, THEN it uses nerf. Otherwise, normal.

    Or something like that.
  • Firebat - EyrdaFirebat - Eyrda Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Well yeah, but AoEs are nerfed in wrath generation. So unless PoL hits at least 4 targets (that are also close to each other, or orbs will fly all over the place) then it will be worse than BoR for orb generation, considering AoEs are 1/4 nerfed...

    I'm really sick of this AoE nerf in everything, look at burst MMs and why they are so crappy right now. Because they nerf for the rarest lamest PvP that still exists (and has no rewards of course) aka mass PvP. Instead, they should have made it such that, if an AoE hits 10+ targets, THEN it uses nerf. Otherwise, normal.

    Or something like that.

    Burst mm was fun as hell during beta with the 4 cap. 3 people wiping an entire guild.....

    Bat, feast, 2mm's spam rake... Good times with ragequit.
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  • Ghundam - EyrdaGhundam - Eyrda Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I figured out our purpose in PvP. You see sins always come after me because mms are THE easiest class in the game to pick on. I get it now. We are actually supposed to be sin magnets. So really we were not made to kill or to live long. Our purpose is to unstealth sins by being two shot by them since it is impossible to anticipate when a sin will attack you from stealth. Once we are dieing it serves as a flag for our teamates to try to take the sin out.

    Yes I think that is the purpose of mms in PvP cause it sure as ............. can't be anything else. Ya know other games even PWI which I now utterly detest (thank you PWI staff for your inability to see how aps and sins ........... that game up) realised ya know what,, there should be a way to detect sins in stealth. In most normal games it usually the ranged class that can detect them. PWIs way of handling it was a reflection of company greed with that stupid stupid stupid pot idea but at least there was a way.

    I as a sins favorite target am COMPLETELY incapable to predicting when a sin will strike and as if it were not enough (cause hey with a 10 sec shield its not like I can just cast it and run out, cause any smart sin will stay in stealth till it wears off) they can stun you and generate enough orbs for the silence and kill you all in the space of about 3 seconds!!!!!! Tell me that isnt in some way just all wrong but no as if that were not enough just incase you somehow survive onslaught 1 they were gifted a second UNSTOPPABLE stealth. Wow, wow, wow just wow.

    I mean at any point will you gms ever ever ever just admit something is wrong and go pester the developers till they fix it cause clearrrrrrrrrly its is very wrong. I mean what would it take off anyones here back to say ya know what we tested this thing and realised that there are indeed some imbalances. I have seen other gms in other games do this. What can be so ...................... hard about FW to have this done.

    Having said that do you guys actually really play the game to begin with? I mean like competitively so you have an actual idea about what we are qqing about?

    Its poor because players like me actually spend money with your company. How can you take peoples money and not take your consumer feedback seriously? I know why. Its becuase people keep spending. The only time you care is like when PWI staff send me an email wnating to know why I no longer logg on and that is a serious indictment on how you think about your customer.

    Sigh. Really thats all thats left in me anymore. Just hoping I can find another game soon. Getting beat down on my mm everyday is not ............"fun".
  • Equivalent - IllyfueEquivalent - Illyfue Posts: 75 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    How can you take peoples money and not take your consumer feedback seriously?

    Sigh. Really thats all thats left in me anymore. Just hoping I can find another game soon. Getting beat down on my mm everyday is not ............"fun".


    GW2 sounds more and more tempting for every day that goes by doesn't it? xD
  • Axym - LionheartAxym - Lionheart Posts: 1,484 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I never said MMs don't have horrible base stats. I said that mages have worse stats.

    I wish I had a ss, but the last time I checked for the ToK set, bonus wise, mages had higher atk, hp and another stat. MMs had higher mana.... which is utterly useless to us. Just comparing these two. Not that mages don't need hp or atk, but mana at least converts to damage for mages. We have no use for mana except to cast skills.

    Given this is tok bonuses and don't matter much in pvp, but I think that this shows how much of an after thought, or maybe just class balance an after thought, we are to the devs.

    Now base stats gear stats? we have a "higher gear class" we're "light" instead of "cloth" of mages. In most mmo's, we have would higher survivability, lower mana, sometimes lower atk. What I find odd is that vampires and sins are also in this group, which would suggest that this is true, and yet the difference is quite large between our survivability and that of sins, vampires are a bit more special because of heals/high hp.

    However, compare mages to priests and bards who also share "cloth." To me, it seems a bit more balanced, although I'm sure some will argue and show numbers to the contrary and I will admit that due to my own lack of thorough investigation/experimentation I could be swayed otherwise.

    I had more ideas for this comparison, but as I mulled them over in class, I began to think that most, if not all, were irrelevant because FW is it's own game and can make it's own rules... and forgot anything else that might've helped my argument, sorry.

    a bit off-topic:
    For the sake of those who do not know much about the soul bullet system and how it actually does hurt more than help (Although I agree, in arena 0cd on Quick Reloading would be a very helpful edit), I might make a small guide in mm forums, put link in this thread for easy viewing, however, I'm swamped with school this week so if another mm wants to do it, feel free :D
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  • Firebat - EyrdaFirebat - Eyrda Posts: 4,190 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Wouldn't it be a slap in the face if mms had to buy ammo (like pwi) in order to attack?

    Just saying.... Possible future epic dev troll
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  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I honestly doubt MMs have more mana rofl... Mages reach 50k+ mana with just refines and 12/12. I think you were confusing the two. It's the only stat mages have above any other class.

    Also, I'm talking of course about base attributes, the white ones that get influenced by 12/12. Those are important, no one cares of the small adds/set bonuses unless it's acc, eva, crit chance/dmg or crit dodge/def. :p

    Example, you think a +1000 HP add is significant? My boots alone (purple arena 12/12, reforged 70%) give me more than 14k HP, just from refine and white stat.
  • Trogotha - Storm LegionTrogotha - Storm Legion Posts: 662 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I honestly doubt MMs have more mana rofl... Mages reach 50k+ mana with just refines and 12/12. I think you were confusing the two. It's the only stat mages have above any other class.

    Also, I'm talking of course about base attributes, the white ones that get influenced by 12/12. Those are important, no one cares of the small adds/set bonuses unless it's acc, eva, crit chance/dmg or crit dodge/def. :p

    Example, you think a +1000 HP add is significant? My boots alone (purple arena 12/12, reforged 70%) give me more than 14k HP, just from refine and white stat.

    Go make your own class QQ thread silly mage. :p While you're at it, remind yourself how bad it is that you get damage boosts both from attack bonuses and max mp boosts as well as being able to do constant spike damage as long as a particular debuff is active that is trivially easy to get up and going for a long time. :rolleyes:

    Normally I agree with you or at least the majority of what you're saying, but for once please realize you really are out of your element here and just move along instead of attempting to one up the most gimped class in PVP in terms of issues. Bors, I do luvs ya, but sometimes you really are your own worst enemy. ;)
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  • nomandalanomandala Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    I honestly doubt MMs have more mana rofl... Mages reach 50k+ mana with just refines and 12/12. I think you were confusing the two. It's the only stat mages have above any other class.

    Also, I'm talking of course about base attributes, the white ones that get influenced by 12/12. Those are important, no one cares of the small adds/set bonuses unless it's acc, eva, crit chance/dmg or crit dodge/def. :p

    Example, you think a +1000 HP add is significant? My boots alone (purple arena 12/12, reforged 70%) give me more than 14k HP, just from refine and white stat.

    Off-topic: Borsook, stop QQ'ing about mages in a MM thread! Nobody cares about your Mage! Go cry and do your ordinary QQ stuff in mages thread. You don't know jack about MMs and all you do is crying like a little b*tch!

    On-topic: MM talent trees have both +/-. Burst tree has no cooldown on RakeOfFury and PenetratingShot combined with QuickReload. Downside of BurstMM? Nobody wants one in 3v3. Precision tree has PainMark, improved HunterMark, attack aura, most Accu stack of all classes (Seen PrecMM with ~700Accu). Downside of PrecMM? You are the main target of focus in arena since Accuracy gain thing scares EvaFreaks. Soul tree has nice dps burst potential, can bring squishy targets down very fast, FastAction with ~same proprieties as Invigorate, soulbullets system more generous. Downside of SoulMM? The bullet usage and the inability to spam!
    Downside of MM compared to other classes: You can make a priest viable and usefull with Mana/Def gems since heals are improved by MP. PriSkills and such do cost more, but you buy things once and you're done! MMs are Attack/CritChance/CritDamage dependent!
    My question is: Why the hell don't you want to make MMs a GlassCannon class? Give MMs more damage and better chance based stuff since y'all too lazy to improve base stats like Eva/CritDodge/CritDefense. Give MMs higher CritChance/CritDamage in exchange for stats. I'd love to see MMs having 7k - 8k Attack at lv80 with something like 30% crit chance from gear/talents/stats! At least they know why and for what they dying for. Seen Warr with 9k attack +/-. I dont even feel like talking about useless/tarded skills. PulseShot having **** CD and rubbish att +bonus att, ExtremeSniping having **** casttime, DazingShot doing nothing in arena, WeakeningCloud having **** long CD, HM requires casttime, and mostly RNG/Luck based trigger skills! MM feels so rubbish and useless overall. I'm sorry for MM players, but that's the truth. Devs hating MMClass so much.
    Most **** thing ever, for all that don't know, check MM SkillScroll called AgilityTechique. After unsealing/learning that passive skill, a MM gains 4 Eva! :eek: 4EVA!!! 4EVA. It's outrageous!
  • Demyx - Storm LegionDemyx - Storm Legion Posts: 387 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    nomandala wrote: »
    check MM SkillScroll called AgilityTechique. After unsealing/learning that passive skill, a MM gains 4 Eva! :eek: 4EVA!!! 4EVA. It's outrageous!

    Off-Topic: Prots have a scroll skill similar that only gives +10 resist to 3 elements. 10 resist is about just as effective frankly. Pretty much all Bard skills are awesome though...just more proof that we're loved by the developers...
    Part of the fun of playing the game is wading through 98% of the idiots and trolls to find the 2% who you enjoy playing with.
  • nomandalanomandala Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Off-Topic: Prots have a scroll skill similar that only gives +10 resist to 3 elements. 10 resist is about just as effective frankly. Pretty much all Bard skills are awesome though...just more proof that we're loved by the developers...

    Pay gold in order to get +10 for all resistences/try buying +4eva gear... make difference! Nuff said!
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sorry but I'd rather take the +eva than the one of many other classes which is some minor **** +resistance. Not the devs fault if you're not eva build on a class supposed to be (dwarf racial gives eva and weakening cloud works only with eva)
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • Xpewx - EyrdaXpewx - Eyrda Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sorry but I'd rather take the +eva than the one of many other classes which is some minor **** +resistance. Not the devs fault if you're not eva build on a class supposed to be (dwarf racial gives eva and weakening cloud works only with eva)

    i wish mine was eva instead of the **** resist it is qq
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    Sorry but I'd rather take the +eva than the one of many other classes which is some minor **** +resistance. Not the devs fault if you're not eva build on a class supposed to be (dwarf racial gives eva and weakening cloud works only with eva)

    Fact of the matter is eva doesn't work for us come end game. Especially not with how Acc scales. Remember we don't have swift eva or dark curse or even shine, we have cloud which is every 5 mins. It's suicide to build around a 5 min cd skill. Sure every 5 minutes for 10 sec if you are pure eva you maybe untouchable but for the other 4mins 50 secs you are one/two hit.

    Sure eva works in lowbie arena but without a consistent acc debuff or huge eva buff it's pointless past 75+. Even then you give up a crapload of survivability because the shield is based on % of HP, you give up a lot of crit dodge and def by forgoing the arena sets.
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Xpewx - EyrdaXpewx - Eyrda Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    Fact of the matter is eva doesn't work for us come end game. Especially not with how Acc scales. Remember we don't have swift eva or dark curse or even shine, we have cloud which is every 5 mins. It's suicide to build around a 5 min cd skill. Sure every 5 minutes for 10 sec if you are pure eva you maybe untouchable but for the other 4mins 50 secs you are one/two hit.

    Sure eva works in lowbie arena but without a consistent acc debuff or huge eva buff it's pointless past 75+. Even then you give up a crapload of survivability because the shield is based on % of HP, you give up a lot of crit dodge and def by forgoing the arena sets.

    im a mage with no eva talents... acc scales just fine mm should be eva because they have that ADDED bonus of cloud and racial thats just bonus...any class can be eva with no skills required that just makes it easier and you chose not to be thats your fault
  • asd29asd29 Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    im a mage with no eva talents... acc scales just fine mm should be eva because they have that ADDED bonus of cloud and racial thats just bonus...any class can be eva with no skills required that just makes it easier and you chose not to be thats your fault

    LOL sure... whatever bro. that's why every high ranking mm on servers are stacking eva in the 80's bracket.

    +5 eva LOL that's making a huge difference to 600-700 acc people. Go play with your mage and come back when you know what works for mm

    I sure as hell hope you're not a fire mage and you're not discounting reflex mirror
    As a level 80MM my advice for anyone wanting to be a MM - fun class to play. But it's not a button mash class. Be prepared for some frustration
  • Aishleen - EyrdaAishleen - Eyrda Posts: 2,005 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    600-700 acc people are squishy as hell too though. What makes you think you as eva will be squishier than them who build it all around acc?
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  • Xpewx - EyrdaXpewx - Eyrda Posts: 414 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    asd29 wrote: »
    LOL sure... whatever bro. that's why every high ranking mm on servers are stacking eva in the 80's bracket.

    +5 eva LOL that's making a huge difference to 600-700 acc people. Go play with your mage and come back when you know what works for mm

    umm have you noticed that are no high ranking mms? and no eva mms? coincidence? if a mage can be effective with eva with no buffs and no talents than a mm can too thats common sense, i have a mm he is eva and he does just fine, he is a alt so he will never be geared the way he should be to be a top tier pvper and thats fine but eva and mm go together same as sin and eva go together...work with whats given to you
  • Borsook - EyrdaBorsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited September 2012
    nomandala wrote: »
    Off-topic: Borsook, stop QQ'ing about mages in a MM thread! Nobody cares about your Mage! Go cry and do your ordinary QQ stuff in mages thread. You don't know jack about MMs and all you do is crying like a little b*tch!
    Off-topic: Warriors have lowest stats, excluding all the other 7 classes! I mean of course, if I make a warrior thread, it's only about warriors right? Balance has nothing to do with other classes right? I mean weakness is absolute, not relative to the rest of the game's classes, right? lols.

    Anyway -- half of MM QQs are part of the squishy design, because mages share them. Deal with it? I'm not saying here that MMs need NOT be boosted. On the contrary. I'm saying if you boost MMs in some certain ways mage ought to be improved there as well.

    Of course there's also things like bullet system being a huge nerf, that mage doesn't have. I acknowledge that. Never said they're the same.

    So, squishy classes are underpowered and gimped, with MMs being especially gimped even more. But saying MM is the squishiest in stats is not a true fact. I don't care if it's a thread about MMs, squishyness is relative to other classes, not an absolute value, so of course I'm going to bring up other classes in discussion.

    Generally, we agree on main points so let's leave it at that.
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