def?

Rhugiga - Storm Legion
Rhugiga - Storm Legion Posts: 226 Arc User
edited February 2012 in Mage Discussion
i remember there being debate about how much def really helps in PvP and PvE...what was the end of that? i think the last thing i saw was the (att-def), like the whole (mastery-resistance)
Post edited by Rhugiga - Storm Legion on
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Comments

  • PurpleDragon - Eyrda
    PurpleDragon - Eyrda Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    If you can stack a lot go for it otherwise dont.

    For ice mages will be very usefull specially when sage/demon tree since it boost their Def x 54 times for 65 secs... According to the translated thread.......

    Have to wait thou but so far it is..
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  • Rhugiga - Storm Legion
    Rhugiga - Storm Legion Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    i am going to hopefully mold this slightly into a gem question since i mainly deals with solars

    so right now my gem slotting looks/will look as follows
    (keep in mind i am a wind mage, slots 1 and 2 are taken up by bloodstones and ragefires, and teh gems are not all exactly in this order >_> and finally this assumes that the translation of wind sage is true with the additional accuracy)

    slot 3 slot4
    head= goldspark + azure -->twilight

    chest = twilight + azure

    shoulder = shatter + azure

    waist = azure + ?

    pants = azure + ?

    boots = twilight + azure

    arms = shatter + azure


    I plan on putting solars in teh two question marks since two mists does practically nothing and im not going for eva buil (obviously) i would throw eagle eyes there but once again, this assumes that i will be getting additional accuracy from the yellow chroma.

    i am wondering if it would be better to echange some of the other gems for solars, and if so which ones.
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  • PurpleDragon - Eyrda
    PurpleDragon - Eyrda Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Im having my doubts bout usefulness of Twightlight. Looks more like a waste of socket lately. Its better actually to go Crystalite.
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  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Put crystalline in pants/belt. Put Shattershards in helmet and weapon, replace possibly ragefire or bloodstone.

    Also put Eagle Eyes instead of azure. The additional accuracy from sage/demon is garbage (maybe one Eagle Eye IV) and not to mention, even with four eagle eyes and double acc ID on gear you'll still miss on evasion builds.
  • Wyron - Lionheart
    Wyron - Lionheart Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Defense for mages seems suboptimal. You're a DPS class that shouldn't be taking too many hits in most instances. Yes, you'll draw a lot of aggro from mobs, but a good Protector will mitigate that. Unless you stack defense with gear and gems, you'll always be below a warrior let alone Prot. So instead stack attack and win the fight.

    For gear, I'd suggest stout with an attack first line based on your tree.
  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Defense for mages seems suboptimal. You're a DPS class that shouldn't be taking too many hits in most instances. Yes, you'll draw a lot of aggro from mobs, but a good Protector will mitigate that. Unless you stack defense with gear and gems, you'll always be below a warrior let alone Prot. So instead stack attack and win the fight.
    I can tank every instance, GoS being quite hard however.

    Not to mention, marble prots are rare. At least on my server. Mages always end up tanking any mobs because of AOE. Defense is suboptimal unless you're ice mage, though.
  • Ginius - Illyfue
    Ginius - Illyfue Posts: 2,509 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    Protectors have stopped tanking anything a while ago in good geared pt.
    - Single target : any war/sins/vamps will steal aggro from it easily
    - multi target : any MM/Mage will get aggro too

    Can be usefull tho if main tank die to get aggro in emergency situation (GoS for example when things turn bad)

    About twilight, I dunno about Mage, but I don't see where it can be that much different from war and it's a really huge factor.
    I can tell it because I saw the difference when I switched between my old gears with exotic twilight in, therefore I lost 4% crit rate. You might think it's not a lot, but hell, I've clearly seen a difference in arena vs the very same opponent with the very same gears as before, making crits on my a$$ way more than before.
    Basically I used to have enough crit dodge to almost match their crit rate, making their crit rate at the minimum value (which seems to be around 1% or whatever), however by loosing these 4% was like giving them 4% crit chance more.
    You know that both are linked that way, and I will take crit dodge vs any crit def/def/eva and even hp gems anytime (as a warrior ofc), however we can't put exotic in pants/waist anymore..
    Anyway my point is that twilight are a must have imo, way more important than crit def.
    Between being crit for 25k or 23k or having a chance to avoid the crit.. my decision is already done :)

    On topic, about the def, several theories are still going on with def being included or not in the calculation before or after the mastery effects and so on and I dunno about that.
    What I can tell however, is that once you get a few orbs, you can hit for almost the same value a winged prot full of Solar and a warrior without any solar, the difference is almost not noticeable once you got a few orbs whereas it should be crystal clear.
    I'm not saying this is not effective, just saying that if it is, it's not that much important.

    However as a mage, your survability is very important (that and crits), therefore once you have nothing more to add in slots (blood/twilight/crystalline and goldspark/shattershard/eagleeye) then azure/solar can be added I guess, I'm no mage expert to know which one to use in term of priority tho.
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  • Wyron - Lionheart
    Wyron - Lionheart Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    I can tank every instance, GoS being quite hard however.

    Not to mention, marble prots are rare. At least on my server. Mages always end up tanking any mobs because of AOE. Defense is suboptimal unless you're ice mage, though.

    So do you have defense gems and IDs, or just rely on high hp + a good priest?
  • Rhugiga - Storm Legion
    Rhugiga - Storm Legion Posts: 226 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    i cant remember where he said it but borsook but i remember him saying he had somewhere around 40k hp, which helps whether you have Def or not lol
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  • Borsook - Eyrda
    Borsook - Eyrda Posts: 2,951 Arc User
    edited February 2012
    So do you have defense gems and IDs, or just rely on high hp + a good priest?
    No because I'm a fire mage. Defense helps, but I only get it from the base of my gear. Gems and IDs would be too insignificant considering I don't have a lot of defense (again, the effect is bigger the more you stack it in TOTAL not just gems or IDs).

    The only viable path for defense is if you stack it, and since mages have low defense to begin with there's no point to go defense, unless you are ice mage with the proper talents for it.

    Again, avoid defense IDs and defense gems unless you are an ice mage built for defense. But defense is far from useless if you stack it. Ice mages get bonuses to defense (and with ice shield).