Moving combat is a MUST

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Comments

  • hjsimp
    hjsimp Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Heroes of the 3 kingdoms has movement with combat and the soulorb system CALLS for movement with combat

    Heroes of the Three Kingdoms has advanced controls, line of sight, weapon reach, skill timing down to 0.1 seconds, directional skills, angled sweeps, breakable and re-organizable combos on the fly. That game's mechanic is very advanced, hardcore, and it's so popular that it's still running on that one lonely PvP only server ever since it went online.

    PWE tried implementing what FPS/DW crowd wanted in a mmorpg with fairly well implemented combat mechanics and the majority of players ignored it. Whereas their "backwards" static-mouse-click-fest-grind-a-ton games made millions overseas. If you control the company direction with jobs and money on the line, what would the real life results tell you? That we should all just get MP5s in Forsaken World and load cs_desert? Terrorist Wins....
  • drakovongola1
    drakovongola1 Posts: 455 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This again..

    We've been over this, no matter how much you want it its not happening for a long long time, they would have to rework the entire engine, not to mention make new skill animations.
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  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    A system like the one the OP is suggesting has been succesfully done in another game called Lineage 2. Just see some movies with archers and you will see that it isnt as bad as you think it is
  • nerdcrusher
    nerdcrusher Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Again? WoW/Aion/Movement+Combat fanboys can't you please go back to the movement+attack game if it's so "much uber l33t pro" than FW that use the so old and bad click to move?


    what enjoyment do you get out standing there hitting your abilities once they come off of cooldown. if you like just standing still attacking why not just play runescape? just because WE dont support your opinion albeit terrible doesnt mean we dont have the right to voice our opinions as gamers, considering this is after all a video game. next.
  • progus
    progus Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Melonhed I totally agree with your post! We have seen this static system so many times in other rpgs, so a change would be appreciated by many players. This game has potential to be even greater with dynamic battle system where you can cast spells moving with WASD or arrow keys and use melee skills when running. At its current state, battle system is nothing special. If pwe ever considers making this system possible then I would enjoy this game even more :)
  • nerdcrusher
    nerdcrusher Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    tazvs wrote: »
    This is forsaken world not wow or aion , you want new combat stile and new things go play wow and aion dont come here and tell to add that **** combat to run after him to pvp :mad:

    give me 3, just 3 reasons why your way is better then ours.
  • sekkurel
    sekkurel Posts: 46
    edited March 2011
    progus wrote: »
    Melonhed I totally agree with your post! We have seen this static system so many times in other rpgs, so a change would be appreciated by many players. This game has potential to be even greater with dynamic battle system where you can cast spells moving with WASD or arrow keys and use melee skills when running. At its current state, battle system is nothing special. If pwe ever considers making this system possible then I would enjoy this game even more :)

    It could work tho i don't want a WoW like system were all you do is just jump around while mashing the keyboard and you win.

    Imo i think this game has to lose the complicated animations for attacks ( i mean the standard ones ). It may look nice but its practically useless.

    But this is just me and also it doesnt bother me THAT much since im a PvE player and its not that big of an issue in PvE if you can kite or not
  • bryanfury83
    bryanfury83 Posts: 474 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Can't you just leave this topic or speak more politely please ?
    I'm pretty quite with my words and no, i don't leave until people will stop to as craps in the game.
    sekkurel wrote: »
    A system like the one the OP is suggesting has been succesfully done in another game called Lineage 2. Just see some movies with archers and you will see that it isnt as bad as you think it is
    L2 don't use Movement+Combat. It's still Point+Click, and i do play it, so i know how it work..
    what enjoyment do you get out standing there hitting your abilities once they come off of cooldown. if you like just standing still attacking why not just play runescape? just because WE dont support your opinion albeit terrible doesnt mean we dont have the right to voice our opinions as gamers, considering this is after all a video game. next.
    If you do like WoW/Aion/movement+attack games, go back play there so, don't need to explain nothing to you.
  • nerdcrusher
    nerdcrusher Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011

    If you do like WoW/Aion/movement+attack games, go back play there so, don't need to explain nothing to you.

    so basically is what you are telling me is you have nothing beneficial to input into this thread and all you wanna do is flame and spam because someone doesnt see something your way, gotcha.

    back on topic, do devs or GMs even post on these forums so we can find out if its even possible for them to change the code of the engine?
  • bryanfury83
    bryanfury83 Posts: 474 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    so basically is what you are telling me is you have nothing beneficial to input into this thread and all you wanna do is flame and spam because someone doesnt see something your way, gotcha.

    back on topic, do devs or GMs even post on these forums so we can find out if its even possible for them to change the code of the engine?
    Stop asking for that ****, will never happen. And i'm not flaming or spamming, i'm telling the truth. If you want movement+combat that you have found on WoW aion and any game that does use it, get back your presence there, without bother up here asking for ****.
  • hjsimp
    hjsimp Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    give me 3, just 3 reasons why your way is better then ours.

    While I see no way to weigh the two opinions based on pure technical merits, here are three reasons why stand and cast is more profitable and therefore, better for almost everyone,

    1. It's easier to pick up and play for casual gamers (including more females and guys tend to like that.) And casual/weekend players are more likely to charge Zen than hardcore grinders in a f2p game. Easier access/mechanics = greater audience = greater profit for a f2p business model.
    2. Stand and cast has found commercial success in other PWI games whereas their movement while casting game failed. However great the combat mechanics in the other game were, people didn't play it. (And to be honest, top spenders will prefer a less skilled approach to combat where money equals might. Just like in real life, you don't see the nations QQing about push-and-forget smart bombs. "But where's the skill in dropping anything other than a Mark 81 by hand on an erratically moving target from a plane going supersonic at below 1000 feet? Air Force nubs..." Remember kids, smart-bomb makers make more money.)
    3. Minorities like you might get mad enough to leave the game or most likely be resigned to their fate and stay quiet, so that there will be fewer such threads ultimately? (Wishful thinking, we know.) Whereas the reverse would be terrible for business. We definitely don't want a game that's seen as too hardcore now do we?

    Tyranny of the majority FTW. Mediocrity rules the world! Moooooooo
  • ohhnoooo
    ohhnoooo Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    so basically is what you are telling me is you have nothing beneficial to input into this thread and all you wanna do is flame and spam because someone doesnt see something your way, gotcha.

    back on topic, do devs or GMs even post on these forums so we can find out if its even possible for them to change the code of the engine?

    I've got a great idea, why don't you find a game you like instead of finding a game and telling them to turn it into a game you like. Particularly with an aspect this major.
  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    To change the code of the engine... would be to re-do a bunch of things if not everything.. It's simply not possible at this time. Do you understand how an engine works? Everything in the game revolves around it you can't make such a major change without taking much more time.
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  • tyanara
    tyanara Posts: 734 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    For the last time to all those people who have no idea what they're talking about, you don't mash buttons hoping you win with gears or luck in FW. You gotta move, and counter enemy's moves. Even kiting is very possible with slow downs/paralyzes/sprint but obviously that's too hard for you.

    Before saying more bs at least become a factor in this game, at least then I know you're not a noob who just mashes the buttons, and thus fails, and thus cries for a different system.

    Once again I also played movement+combat games, and I was one of the best at them. I can handle both, and in this game you do NOT just smash buttons staying near your opponent, unless you suck of course. You QQers on the other hand, seems to NOT be able to handle how this game is meant to be played not the noob way.


    Trust me there are SO many FAIL people I saw in this CB, people that do not move, people that would post exactly the things you guys do in here when you describe how this game's PvP system is. Once again I tell you that is the FAIL way, don't blame the game being stupid but rather yourself.
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  • sky7
    sky7 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    so i like how you said " the devs should listen to their players" and RIGHT after that started with "dont listen to whoever i dont like"

    i see just about 90% of the ppl here disagree with you... i do as well.

    you sir, have failed.
  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    We're not trying to be jerks by disagreeing it's just realistic, engine changes do not happen on f2p games when they're about to go OB.
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  • xxxdrackosxxx
    xxxdrackosxxx Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    sesheenku wrote: »
    We're not trying to be jerks by disagreeing it's just realistic, engine changes do not happen on f2p games when they're about to go OB.

    Personally, what I really want is multi-core support, because it's easy to do and profitable for all players.
    Easy to do because some devs are specialized in making software supporting multi-core processors.

    Movement while combat is a western feature, and Forsaken World is supposed to be a western oriented game so it means that movement while combat should be here, in Forsaken World.

    Some players are just claiming what Forsaken World should be, they are not transforming it to another game.

    Regarding to how players actually play , I know that everyone move in Forsaken World but by having some skills that you can actually cast while moving, it makes the combat much more exciting.

    And I am just laughing at the cash shop argument, there is always a way for a cash shop user to be the most powerful player in the server, even if he's a noob and even with moving combat.

    So again, argue, guys, don't throw copy/pasted sentences.
  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Personally, what I really want is multi-core support, because it's easy to do and profitable for all players.
    Easy to do because some devs are specialized in making software supporting multi-core processors.

    Movement while combat is a western feature, and Forsaken World is supposed to be a western oriented game so it means that movement while combat should be here, in Forsaken World.

    Some players are just claiming what Forsaken World should be, they are not transforming it to another game.

    Regarding to how players actually play , I know that everyone move in Forsaken World but by having some skills that you can actually cast while moving, it makes the combat much more exciting.

    And I am just laughing at the cash shop argument, there is always a way for a cash shop user to be the most powerful player in the server, even if he's a noob and even with moving combat.

    So again, argue, guys, don't throw copy/pasted sentences.

    I'm not claiming they're trying to transform it into another game and even if I was I wouldn't be worried, engine changes are most likely a far afterthought for the future of PW.

    Multi-core support WOULD be fantastic and I would love it however that too would be a complete engine overhaul and as much as I would LIKE it to happen it's just not a realistic request, a new engine would take a year+ to complete.

    Even if we all want these things we can ask but we should all collectively know, engine changes are a lengthy process and it shouldn't be expected in this game because as far as I know, they get into OB and the engine remains. Expansions yes but a new engine in itself cannot be an expansion because everything would have to be remade to work with the new engine.

    I'm no commercial game maker nor do I claim to be a professional in engine making but I do understand as someone who edits other parts of various 3d games and hopes to one day learn to make game engines from scratch that game engines take years to develop. After all everything in the game is built on and around the engine you can't change it without remaking or changing the entire game and to be realistic, at this point PW is likely already planning expansions for their various other games, drawing up plans for future games and yes even discussing their next steps to optimize this game, of which engines are most likely not being discussed due to the amount of time it would take to recreate a game which is set to be released 4 days from now.
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  • redwingpixie
    redwingpixie Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    There are a few pre made game engines which most game companies buy off the makers and use in their games coz it saves time and money lol the thing that would take time would be reprograming everything to work on the engine.

    and move in combat would be to much like aion where melee pwn since they run around u..
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  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    There are a few pre made game engines which most game companies buy off the makers and use in their games coz it saves time and money lol the thing that would take time would be reprograming everything to work on the engine.

    and move in combat would be to much like aion where melee pwn since they run around u..

    Precisely, the factor here is time and the games release draws near and as I said they've never replaced the engine halfway through, PW is a smart business in the sense they know exactly how to exert minimal effort to gain great profit. They're the ninja of the F2P industry they know exactly what they're doing all too well.
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  • llsymourll
    llsymourll Posts: 62 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    lol i will say again , people
    1st i'd like people to check my post in Page 17 , its the last post.

    Yes a moving or "dynamic" or watever u want to call it combat system might be nice

    but look at my post and you will understand ,
    people.. a gaming company Is not a charity a gaming company wants MONEY
    the only reason they are making you enjoy ur self , and the only reason companies upgrade their games , is to Embrace people's hearts and get more people so that they can make money.

    they don't make games just for the hell of it ...

    as i explained in my older post , making such a huge change would make them need to delay
    game for very long...and lose more people than they already lost with a 5month cb

    and make them lose money in fw that they are not willing to spend , cuse if they spend it they are making losses...big ones

    SO what we are saying is , PERHAPS moving combat is nice in other games :)
    but issue is more of , it wont fail in fw , it will make fw FAIL in general...
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  • dalek0slicer
    dalek0slicer Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    ADD moving combat Warhammer did it and i loved it. The only reason im not playing warhammer right now is becuz of cost, but moving combat would be so much more exciting. And no melee wouldnt own because they could make a few insta cast moves for mage, maybe for all ranged classes, a small run boost for certain amount of time, or/and gunning class shouldn't have problem with run and gun.
  • razgrim
    razgrim Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    I do agree with the melee attack while moving. Quite honestly I have a hard time believing it's possible to have smooth pvp without it, and I have seen pvp with and without. The biggest whole in the stop to punch mechanic is casters, it's been made a point of before that all a caster really has to do to survive a melee assault is run away, and there's little a melee can do to stop it. Of course if a move-while-attack system is but in there would have to be a great deal of re-balancing to make up for this ace that casters have against a melee class, but I think it's well worth it.

    Here's a comment from myself who's also done programming: This is not a quick change that can be made, it's a root programming change that has to be done from the line. The casting system is hard programmed to use casting time and to change the program part of it you'd have to first alter the cast time of all spells you want to be "instant" to some value like zero or null that can be recognized for lack of cast time. If you do this you'll have to throw in some extra coding to provide a decent delay between the attack performed and the availability to perform another, because otherwise you could potentially use 3 attacks in 1 sec (this delay has been commonly referred to as a "global cooldown"). You can also keep your cast time variable untouched and provide the "instant" spells with an additional variable that would indicate the ability to attack while moving, which would probably be easier. Then you need to provide an exception in the "checkIfMoving()" statement (which would normally block spell casting if a true value is returned) using the cast time or indicator variable to allow a cast to be performed if the character is in fact moving. Depending on how the program was built there might be other kinks to work out, otherwise, this is the easy part.

    I'm not so experienced in graphics side and have never actually done 3D animation, but I've seen how the attack while moving method is pulled off. You've got 2 options, either create a new animation for each zero cast time spell and each class to have an alternate moving animation for these spells, or you need to splice the old top half animation onto a moving legs animation, which is restricting to the animations you can do (you can't have the character animation spinning around or jumping or anything like that if you take this 2nd route). The knocker in the 1st option is the players splitting between standing and moving while the animation is occurring. That'd take some extra coding between the graphics and the engine.

    Quite honestly I don't think the programming side is too tasking. The biggest obstruction to getting this done would be the chain of command, all the **** that would occur between this post and the programmer responsible for that section. If good programming standards were followed in the making of the game engine then it's a simple in and out thing. Animations take longer, but that shouldn't be any kind of challenge, just more time taken.

    I do understand though that it's a big change to actual combat and pvp mechanics, and it's something you build into the game from the start, not edit it in later. Although I'd love to see it happen I realize that the likelihood of the idea receiving serious consideration from the production crew is minimal.
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  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    razgrim wrote: »
    I do agree with the melee attack while moving. Quite honestly I have a hard time believing it's possible to have smooth pvp without it, and I have seen pvp with and without. The biggest whole in the stop to punch mechanic is casters, it's been made a point of before that all a caster really has to do to survive a melee assault is run away, and there's little a melee can do to stop it. Of course if a move-while-attack system is but in there would have to be a great deal of re-balancing to make up for this ace that casters have against a melee class, but I think it's well worth it.

    Here's a comment from myself who's also done programming: This is not a quick change that can be made, it's a root programming change that has to be done from the line. The casting system is hard programmed to use casting time and to change the program part of it you'd have to first alter the cast time of all spells you want to be "instant" to some value like zero or null that can be recognized for lack of cast time. Then you need to provide an exception in the "checkIfMoving()" statement (which would normally block spell casting if a true value is returned) using the cast time variable to allow a cast to be performed if the character is in fact moving. That's the easy part.

    I'm not so experienced in graphics side and have never actually done 3D animation, but I've seen how the attack while moving method is pulled off. You've got 2 options, either create a new animation for each zero cast time spell and each class to have an alternate moving animation for these spells, or you need to splice the old top half animation onto a moving legs animation, which is restricting to the animations you can do (you can't have the character animation spinning around or jumping or anything like that if you take this 2nd route).

    Quite honestly I don't think the programming side is too tasking. The biggest obstruction to getting this done would be the chain of command, all the **** that would occur between this post and the programmer responsible for that section. If good programming standards were followed in the making of the game engine then it's a simple in and out thing. Animations take longer, but that shouldn't be any kind of challenge, just more time taken.

    I do understand though that it's a big change to actual combat and pvp mechanics, and it's something you into the game from the start, not edit it in later. Although I'd love to see it happen I realize that the likelihood of the idea receiving serious consideration from the production crew is minimal.

    Unfortunately it seems the more you know about engines in this thread the less your posts are read >.>
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  • nerdcrusher
    nerdcrusher Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011

    Movement while combat is a western feature, and Forsaken World is supposed to be a western oriented game so it means that movement while combat should be here, in Forsaken World.

    Some players are just claiming what Forsaken World should be, they are not transforming it to another game.

    This.

    FW advertises itself as a "western" style mmo. yet its basically PW reskinned is it not?
  • redwingpixie
    redwingpixie Posts: 249 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    This.

    FW advertises itself as a "western" style mmo. yet its basically PW reskinned is it not?

    yea this is what fw really is pwi 2.0 but id pick fw over pwi anyways tho i do miss some pwi stuff
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  • razgrim
    razgrim Posts: 100 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    so basically is what you are telling me is you have nothing beneficial to input into this thread and all you wanna do is flame and spam because someone doesnt see something your way, gotcha.

    back on topic, do devs or GMs even post on these forums so we can find out if its even possible for them to change the code of the engine?
    GMs don't code. GMs tell their forum manager, who tells the webpage manager, who tells the head of the US side of FW operations, who tells the US side of PWE operations, who tells the US coordinater in China (after translation which is 1 more person), who tells the PWE international coordinater, who tells the PWE chairman/management board, then it goes back down, the chairman tells the head of development, the head of development tells the game engine manager, the game engine manager tells the programmer who developed the sections of code that need to be changed. That's the general idea at least. Which still hinges on everyone up and down the chain agreeing to the change.

    In other words it's a long friggin way from the forums to the programmers.
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  • skets
    skets Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    Ok so the same Bellis guy who told us BOI was not going to make Cash people OP, is now telling us FW is for Western gamers, I want to know where the Western aspect is. Cause I sure as hell haven't seen it yet. This is just a ported Asian game as all others.
  • deathyy
    deathyy Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    played alot of games in my time, moving combat... now u see depending on the game its dependable... but yes i agree for this type of game moving combat should be implacated (amount of times i've accidently moved n stopped attacking without realising lol) but! some parts u dont need to have moving combat... moving combat is mainly benifical for PVP really.. well thats my view
  • rassav
    rassav Posts: 30 Arc User
    edited March 2011
    OP is correct... we should have instants on cooldowns long enough so balance is not affected, to stun, silence or root an opponnent, and get out of said things (like wow trinket, will of the forsaken, every man for himself). In wow pvping without a trinket is painful experience because you have abilities that incapacitate the opponnent (and opponnents have them too).

    That opens another can of worms, the balance (even Blizzard is balancing things all the time, they balance add something new or change some abilities, and balance again, and they admitted some things cant be balanced at all, like making frost mage do PVE amount of damage, that would be too OP for PVP).
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