Moving combat is a MUST

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  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I say you're better off turning your computer off, turning on your pretty little XBOX and playing your pretty little FPS. You know, where moving is required?

    You want to move and attack the last thing you should try to play is a free MMORPG.

    It's really not necessary if you want to avoid damage kite stuff, don't like spamming button pressing? Go buy a Wii? Every game's controls waters down to pressing buttons and yes spamming the same buttons.
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  • maximilious
    maximilious Posts: 17 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    @sesheenku

    Every MMO I have played cosist of mages being kiters. THE WHOLE PURPOSE of the "magic" class is to be able to shoot, and run. If I have to stay still and let melee classes hit me as I hit them there is something extremely wrong with the game mechanics.
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  • sesheenku
    sesheenku Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    @sesheenku

    Every MMO I have played cosist of mages being kiters. THE WHOLE PURPOSE of the "magic" class is to be able to shoot, and run. If I have to stay still and let melee classes hit me as I hit them there is something extremely wrong with the game mechanics.

    "You want to move and attack the last thing you should try to play is a free MMORPG. "

    I don't write the rules, I just break the ones I can. This one being one i can't break.

    Maybe that's not true for some big amount of free MMORPG'S idk I only play a few that I like but that rule certainly applies here.
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  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Every MMO I have played cosist of mages being kiters.
    I kite just fine.
    THE WHOLE PURPOSE of the "magic" class is to be able to shoot, and run.
    Yep, but not at the same time.
    If I have to stay still and let melee classes hit me as I hit them there is something extremely wrong with the game mechanics.
    Oh yeah because you're so pro you'd just be spamming fireball while moving around like a tard. There's a reason you have that ice arrow that immobilizes the opponent.
  • revnic
    revnic Posts: 123 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    @sesheenku

    Every MMO I have played cosist of mages being kiters. THE WHOLE PURPOSE of the "magic" class is to be able to shoot, and run. If I have to stay still and let melee classes hit me as I hit them there is something extremely wrong with the game mechanics.

    Maybe you shouldn't shoot just run......i'm just saying.
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  • xxxdrackosxxx
    xxxdrackosxxx Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    sesheenku wrote: »
    I say you're better off turning your computer off, turning on your pretty little XBOX and playing your pretty little FPS. You know, where moving is required?

    You want to move and attack the last thing you should try to play is a free MMORPG.

    It's really not necessary if you want to avoid damage kite stuff, don't like spamming button pressing? Go buy a Wii? Every game's controls waters down to pressing buttons and yes spamming the same buttons.

    A lot of new F2P mmorpgs allows you to attack while moving .
    Just few of them are in OBT and a lot are coming.
    But what made me laugh is your comparison to a Wii player, just the fact you're using such a comparison makes me think that you've never convinced someone in real life.
    Really, guys, please, be smarter, those arguments are too weak...
    Anyway, just look at those 2 videos, you'll understand the difference between a moving combat and a static one :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFxAe0UB5Q
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsCc6qHd7pw

    And I am comparing 2 F2P mmorpgs ^^
  • atheistscreed
    atheistscreed Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    melonhed wrote: »
    Please don't listen to the people that say this is a bad idea, they obviously haven't played any successful games or any game at a competitive level. There is no reason to not have freedom in a game, whoever wants to stand still and watch their characters mindlessly, be my guest, but don't ruin it for us who want freedom.

    You need to understand how much of a difference this makes, the majority of differences between f2p mmo's and games like WoW, is the combat. The environment's in a lot of them are great, same leveling up system, pve, pvp, guilds, etc.

    After this, I stopped reading.
    I do like the idea about moving combat BUT there had to be restrictions, or bards/mages/priests would just kite everyone and pwn them with their slows and freezes.
    So if there was moving combat, my suggestion would be: Only auto attack and speed/accuracy would be reduced by 30~40%. Because seriously, in real life, can you REALLY focus punching someone while moving away from them?

    By the way, if you want people to listen to you, do NOT insult them, it just makes you look dumb, not the other way around.
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  • renegademarshal
    renegademarshal Posts: 49
    edited February 2011
    I stopped reading after the OP started to look like a needy nine-year old.

    So what if there's movement while attacking? How will that even affect gameplay? The only thing I see happening is the ranged classes totally dominating the game since they all have slows.

    And if you want to argue that standing and attacking requires nothing but button mashing, then you obviously haven't been in a real PvP situation. The reason why moving combat is not implemented - besides the fact this is f2p - is that standing combat, coupled witht he Soul-Shattering system, forces a trade-off. Either you do take damage without reciprocating in order to bolster your offense later, or you keep on attacking until your damage output drops intensely.

    Moving Combat = Soul-Shattering becomes over-powered for range.
  • ouriel125
    ouriel125 Posts: 4 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Because seriously, in real life, can you REALLY focus punching someone while moving away from them?

    Games are not supposed to picture the real life, they are the opposite of it. No game should picture or copy the real life.
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  • katozuma
    katozuma Posts: 705 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Perhaps it's the case for you but not for others :D

    I was being sarcastic ofc I would like some move and combat, but at this point its a no-show sadly PWE couldn't put implement it even if they wanted to.
    Because seriously, in real life, can you REALLY focus punching someone while moving away from them?

    Yes!, well in real life we take turns attacking each other XD

    video game =/= real life, sadly u can't compare real life to a video game.
  • bryanfury83
    bryanfury83 Posts: 474 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I would really like to see an archer aiming then shooting a target at 200 meters away while running... LEGOLAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS *Triple Head Shot*
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Anyway, just look at those 2 videos, you'll understand the difference between a moving combat and a static one :
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NRFxAe0UB5Q
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GsCc6qHd7pw

    And I am comparing 2 F2P mmorpgs ^^
    I see perfectly and FW looks much better and more realistic, less bunny hopping and such. 1st one looks like a cartoon character trying to smack someone.

    You just don't get it. We KNOW the difference but you simply can't accept that we like static combat... lol
  • xxxdrackosxxx
    xxxdrackosxxx Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    octarone wrote: »
    I see perfectly and FW looks much better and more realistic, less bunny hopping and such. 1st one looks like a cartoon character trying to smack someone.

    You just don't get it. We KNOW the difference but you simply can't accept that we like static combat... lol

    Much better, more realistic, less bunny hopping ? Because you never played games like that or because you know that in such a game you won't be able to kill easily mages and such ?
    Again, a game isn't made to look like the reality so what I can't accept is that some players want the same combat system again and again without thinking of changing the odd and having a new and fresh one.
    Test it, you won't regret it .
  • necroraizen
    necroraizen Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I would really like to see an archer aiming then shooting a target at 200 meters away while running... LEGOLAAAAAAAAAASSSSSSSS *Triple Head Shot*

    Obligatory: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjkfZ3q8tE&feature=related
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  • roltem
    roltem Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    please do stand still and not move at all while i collect orbs and then aoe 2 shot everybody i see in pvp.

    I'm serious. Don't move, it just makes my life easier if you believe you don't have to move at all.

    On a honest note though, if you wanna do well with any class really you want to be moving and slowing down the other person in order to collect orbs since red hands=win.

    Back to the original point of this post. Please don't move for the my sake.
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  • bellylint
    bellylint Posts: 26 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Ok I'm gona be blunt and end this thread. It's a done deal, the game is made, it's game over, the mecanics of combat aren't about to change they game is already programmed it's game over. Nothing that big can change in a game without changing a boat load of coding and defecto re-writing a new game.

    Accept the mecanics or just play another game as they are a billion more games out there and if the current mecanis fails, someone, maybe somewhere may understand and create a better game after this. But no game out there includes all the perfection people would seek in just 1 game, that ain't gona happen... ever. :cool:
  • octarone
    octarone Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Much better, more realistic, less bunny hopping ? Because you never played games like that or because you know that in such a game you won't be able to kill easily mages and such ?
    I was just commenting on the videos you posted... lol
  • tioiei
    tioiei Posts: 32
    edited February 2011
    The absence of moving combat is THE MAIN REASON I WON'T PLAY this game!

    Thx for your time
  • tioiei
    tioiei Posts: 32
    edited February 2011
    So far 80% of the players don't like the Movement+Attack, 10% doesn't care at all and the remaining 10% is the fanboys from WoW/Aion and so on. What do you expect so? That is not your game if you want the movement+attack.

    You have a survey to back this up???? Unless you made a solid research this is a dull argument.

    You made an assumption. I give you a fact: WOW is the third best sold game in the history of video games after Pacman and Tetris.

    You want more facts?? WOW made 2.5 million $ in one week for selling a fancy coloured mount. How many F2P games make that kind of money in one year???
  • xxxdrackosxxx
    xxxdrackosxxx Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    bellylint wrote: »
    Ok I'm gona be blunt and end this thread. It's a done deal, the game is made, it's game over, the mecanics of combat aren't about to change they game is already programmed it's game over. Nothing that big can change in a game without changing a boat load of coding and defecto re-writing a new game.

    Accept the mecanics or just play another game as they are a billion more games out there and if the current mecanis fails, someone, maybe somewhere may understand and create a better game after this. But no game out there includes all the perfection people would seek in just 1 game, that ain't gona happen... ever. :cool:

    Trust me, if everyone quit the game because PWE put our feedback in the garbade, as you're saying, they will be obliged to think twice before making a "western-oriented" game.
    Because a true western-oriented game needs a huge budget and to do the modifications the community wants.
    Contrary to an Eastern-oriented game which is made to last...6months before another game by the same company is released.

    To sum up, we're doing our job as beta testers and we believe that we'll be heard, even if your opinion is the contrary.
    If we see that nothing changed then yes, I will be the first one to quit the game .
  • melonhed
    melonhed Posts: 19 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Hey guys,

    Just back after a few days to see how my thread is going, well devs, if all these replies so far haven't convinced you that you need moving combat in this game, then I don't know what to say, your game is doomed, because clearly you don't take notice of player feedback, if you ignore this, what else will you ignore that we ask for?

    People to go as far as to say they won't play your game if there isn't moving combat is a pretty big thing. Implementing this should be high on your priority list.

    Oh and, about the "new animations" that they need to create for this system. Not necessarily, all they need to do is mix and match a little their already existing animations.

    The top half of the body would attack as normal, the same as when you're not moving, and the bottom half could be the same animations as running, might look a bit off, but I'm sure it will save a lot of players to keep playing, I'd be happy with that at the moment. Sure you might have to add a few tweaks here and there, but it's very much possible.

    Anyway, waiting for an official response on this still, which were my original intentions when I made the thread. I just want to know if they're planning on adding it, if not, then please just reply with a no, we'll all move on and accept it, no point in letting a topic drag on for so long :/
  • fenrina
    fenrina Posts: 336
    edited February 2011
    melonhed wrote: »
    Just back after a few days to see how my thread is going, well devs, if all these replies so far haven't convinced you that you need moving combat in this game, then I don't know what to say, your game is doomed, because clearly you don't take notice of player feedback, if you ignore this, what else will you ignore that we ask for?

    No offense, there's been around 9 threads total asking for this. Maybe add 2-3 more for threads asking what style of movement is used. That's not a whole lot for a little under a year's worth of threads. I personally haven't heard any complaints ingame about this either.

    I don't think alot of people are talking about it at all. Out of all the things that could break this game, this looks like it's low on the chain. Likewise, I don't think it was a big contribution to WoW's success.
    melonhed wrote: »
    People to go as far as to say they won't play your game if there isn't moving combat is a pretty big thing. Implementing this should be high on your priority list.

    Of course there will be some who won't play without this. The question is how many and are they an important audience. I suspect pwe has far more information on this than we do. It's kinda important from a business standpoint to have those kind of statistics.
    melonhed wrote: »
    Oh and, about the "new animations" that they need to create for this system. Not necessarily, all they need to do is mix and match a little their already existing animations.

    The top half of the body would attack as normal, the same as when you're not moving, and the bottom half could be the same animations as running, might look a bit off, but I'm sure it will save a lot of players to keep playing, I'd be happy with that at the moment. Sure you might have to add a few tweaks here and there, but it's very much possible.

    That can break suspension of disbelief.

    Several of the animations involve stuff like jumping. (Evil Ward, at least one assassin skill, but I forget the name.) It wouldn't surprise me if there are some with spinning too. Those kind of animations would look horrible with that kind method. I don't really want to look at animations that make it look like my character is breaking her spine or otherwise hurting herself to move and attack. Some of the animations would loose their visual impact with this too.

    I'm not saying moving combat is bad. I just don't think it is a big enough deal to claim the game is doomed without it or that it would add enough for the necessary changes.
  • katozuma
    katozuma Posts: 705 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Trust me, if everyone quit the game because PWE put our feedback in the garbade, as you're saying, they will be obliged to think twice before making a "western-oriented" game.
    Because a true western-oriented game needs a huge budget and to do the modifications the community wants.
    Contrary to an Eastern-oriented game which is made to last...6months before another game by the same company is released.

    To sum up, we're doing our job as beta testers and we believe that we'll be heard, even if your opinion is the contrary.
    If we see that nothing changed then yes, I will be the first one to quit the game .

    Lol, saying it was a western-oriented game was just to appease the pwe population, I believe it was said in a interview this game was in development still even when pwi was first release. If it was a true western-orientated game our feedback would been very essential during early development stages and not some localize,after cn-version release of the game stage. You don't make an western-oriented game then put westerner feedback last on the menu or completely tossing it aside.

    Sadly I would have to agree with Bellylint, it not going to happen,PWE doesn't have the power and the chinese developers over in china would laugh at the idea, seeing as the game is already release. Pwe job is just to publish,make little modification and localization and thats it.

    If you truly believe/feel moving and combat is must and without it the game is a fail/w/e, then its probably best to move to another mmorpg, just wondering do rift have moving combat?

    also regardless if you quit or not, the mods or crabclaw himself will close it

    for ex: http://fw-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=26101&page=160 , but in that thread he/she/whatever gender crabclaw is, mention they will be closing it beforehand. (Sorry Crabclaw, it was the only example i could think of, its just water under bride now so i doubt anyone would care at this point)

    Just let one or more trolls in and start an argument and mods will find a reason to close it. The this thread will go to the lower depths never to be seen/heard from again.
  • mayito2009
    mayito2009 Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I think Crabclaw is a she. And again guys is not going to happen, the US/EU versions of the game are based on the Chinesse version and if they dont have it, AINT GOING TO HAPPEN. So stop dreaming and wishing. It would be nice but the chinesse devs dont care about it.
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  • conterkiller
    conterkiller Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    If u say the pvp here is just stand still in front of ur target and spam skills..
    then CLEARLY..

    u haven't tried it that much.. o.O

    and/or.. u suck at it and don't really know the fck u'r talking about.. :S

    that's it.. :S

    just standing in front of ur target and spaming skills is a FAIL at 1v1.. also in GvG.. :S

    also.. the idea of moving while attacking its absurd here.. since the animation for normal attack is a lot longer than other MMO's.. and.. Normal attacks doesnt generate orbs.. wich are the ones that really helps out in PvP..
    i guess that.. if u actually knew what u'r talking about in the game.. u would know that..

  • vicioushuntress
    vicioushuntress Posts: 284 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    I read few posts...and was lazy to read rest of it...anyway...i do agree with 1st post, this combat is boring...moving would be much better, more fun, and yes, i tryed pvp, and i still think that this idea is great. I saw some ppl said that it would be hard and confusing if we would have to move/run around and target ppl...or that if some1 attacks you and u turn around u see ppl jumping around and runing, u wont see who attacked you.....1st of all...WTF?! Ofc that moving during combat would be more fun, it might be harder but pls -.-'' that would actually show some real skills at least...2nd i saw some ppl Qqing about orbs... -.- thats only thing that makes u move in this game...and some ppl don't do even that lol...

    thumb up for this idea ;)
  • spirithanyou
    spirithanyou Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Great Idea! Won't happen though, they aren't going to innovate when they can just re-use the previous engine(s) and add more flair to it. It's just the way their minds work, for the most part anyway. Less money spent, same profit.

    The inevitable truth is, this combat system that most mmorpgs use is slowly dying, and being replaced by a more action oriented system. The idea of mixing real time and tactical point and click sounds great on paper, but in execution it rarely hits the mark. Tactical combat should stay in the tactical games like Atlantica Online where the game is turn based, where it works, while games like this with their beautiful looking animations deserve better.

    If you think this guy has the wrong idea, please educate yourselves on games like Dc Universe Online and Vindictus. These games blow the current standard of combat systems on mmorpgs out of the water and show that it is indeed possible and much better overall to have that freedom, as it adds so much freedom and destroys limitations that previous mmorpgs faced.

    I'd say try Dc Universe Online and then dare tell me that you'd rather go back to this ancient system we call point and click. I too enjoyed the system many years ago but i just cannot stand it anymore.

    That is my opinion anyway, take it for what it's worth. Why fight standing still when you can fight, dodge, roll, spin, flip, block, counter, break, bounce of wall, grapple on wall, etc.

    Personally i find it more fun when i can take my sword, run up to a wall, bounce off it, do a 720 spin and cut my enemies head off, rather than taking turns slashing and casting generic spells, but that's just me.

    Edit: On the problems with long animations vs free movement combat, i am sure that it isn't difficult to just lock the movement while the animations are going on, and then free it up as they are done. That is a possible solution, but regardless this old combat system that has been recycle for many years needs to make way for a better system, a more action oriented system which as im sure your all aware, is the current next gen plan as i have pointed out above with two examples.
  • xxxdrackosxxx
    xxxdrackosxxx Posts: 410 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    Great Idea! Won't happen though, they aren't going to innovate when they can just re-use the previous engine(s) and add more flair to it. It's just the way their minds work, for the most part anyway. Less money spent, same profit.

    The inevitable truth is, this combat system that most mmorpgs use is slowly dying, and being replaced by a more action oriented system. The idea of mixing real time and tactical point and click sounds great on paper, but in execution it rarely hits the mark. Tactical combat should stay in the tactical games like Atlantica Online where the game is turn based, where it works, while games like this with their beautiful looking animations deserve better.

    If you think this guy has the wrong idea, please educate yourselves on games like Dc Universe Online and Vindictus. These games blow the current standard of combat systems on mmorpgs out of the water and show that it is indeed possible and much better overall to have that freedom, as it adds so much freedom and destroys limitations that previous mmorpgs faced.

    I'd say try Dc Universe Online and then dare tell me that you'd rather go back to this ancient system we call point and click. I too enjoyed the system many years ago but i just cannot stand it anymore.

    That is my opinion anyway, take it for what it's worth. Why fight standing still when you can fight, dodge, roll, spin, flip, block, counter, break, bounce of wall, grapple on wall, etc.

    Personally i find it more fun when i can take my sword, run up to a wall, bounce off it, do a 720 spin and cut my enemies head off, rather than taking turns slashing and casting generic spells, but that's just me.

    Edit: On the problems with long animations vs free movement combat, i am sure that it isn't difficult to just lock the movement while the animations are going on, and then free it up as they are done. That is a possible solution, but regardless this old combat system that has been recycle for many years needs to make way for a better system, a more action oriented system which as im sure your all aware, is the current next gen plan as i have pointed out above with two examples.

    +1, I totally agree with you ^^
  • mayito2009
    mayito2009 Posts: 316 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    To make your argument valid you cannot compare F2P with P2P, that is the bottom line, most of the P2P the devs seek feedabck from players, F2P almost never you see devs seeking feedback from players.
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  • spirithanyou
    spirithanyou Posts: 3 Arc User
    edited February 2011
    mayito2009 wrote: »
    To make your argument valid you cannot compare F2P with P2P, that is the bottom line, most of the P2P the devs seek feedabck from players, F2P almost never you see devs seeking feedback from players.

    This is true enough. However even the f2p developers should start looking at a new system as even f2p games now have combat and freedom of movement. Both markets are evolving and to stay competitive, it is inevitable that they must face the music ^_^.
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