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Huge bug with immense effect on game

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  • longschwanzerllongschwanzerl Posts: 59 Arc User
    The only information we couldn't give them was what exactly qualified a character to be able to use the bug, because as we know by now only some people were able to use it. But we knew from the beginning that it was generated in the guild ah. Sure that isn't 100% of the information needed to fix the npc, but like i already said, they didn't "fix" it, they just deactivated it. The information that it is generated through guild ah should've been enough for them to deaktivate the npc right away.

    That was the first thing I said to my guild mates when they announced that the npc was finally being deaktivated. Why not in the beginning when we first sent in the ticket.

    On a side note: I sent in another ticket with videos and pictures showing ridiculous character progress over 1-2 days and orb spam and whatnot. Those videos and pictures still have 0 views to this day. So I don't think it's a problem with the players or their tickets, it's a problem with the work ethics of the support team. Can't figure things out if you just spam auto responses and don't review stuff being sent to you...
  • dazy420#3112 dazy420 Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    Why then we're the PWE engineering saying that they were unable to reproduce for weeks?



    I think that here is where the issue truly is of what you say is true that you gave them full and complete information on how to reproduce.



    I have friends in the Russian community, and they were actively working to figure out how it was being done and reporting back to PWE. When they said that they had found it and reported how, the servers got shut down that night for the emergency patch



    So where is the disjoint between these two stories is perhaps the core question here

    I don't know if it is true that it was reported that early with information on how the bug was used, but I myself opened a support ticked and even wrote a private message to CM Shalenak about it the same day this thread was created. He responded the next day. So if support claimed not knowing where the money came from before 6th of July it's just an excuse. I agree that deactivating the npc back then should have been their first move.
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    When certain players keep trying on defending the wrong, as now is happening, it's easy to know why do the Admins ignore us all: because they can, due to a deplorable predominant mentality.
  • unusualsuspect1unusualsuspect1 Posts: 693 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    Who is defending what wrong now?

    We're discussing what actions could have been taken by PWE with the benefit of hindsight, not whether the act of exploiting was right or wrong. It was wrong, period. The exploiters chose to exploit, and for the most part it seems that they got punished for it. That is a good thing, but that's not what any of today's posts were discussing.
  • longschwanzerllongschwanzerl Posts: 59 Arc User

    I don't know if it is true that it was reported that early with information on how the bug was used, but I myself opened a support ticked and even wrote a private message to CM Shalenak about it the same day this thread was created. He responded the next day. So if support claimed not knowing where the money came from before 6th of July it's just an excuse. I agree that deactivating the npc back then should have been their first move.

    Exactly what I meant when I was talking about their work ethics. They basically were to lazy to investigate themselves even though they already knew where the gold was generated.

    "Let's wait and see if they can figure out every single bit so we don't have any work on that"



  • anasilva991anasilva991 Posts: 778 Arc User
    All i wanted was this exploit gone, ended up on loosing more than that.

    An immature guilty mixed with a depressed responsability i will take with me on how i brought this situation initially, maybe because sometimes its so much easier for people in this game to just easily hate then try to forgive and accept the ones they care about, realizing that in this story either you hate or you become the hate yourself, that soon or later creates a seeking blind justice, as none is the cause of everything bad or good in the world, people will make it so, karma.

    Thx for the ones that managed to help get rid of it, on the week it came on illyfue it was fixed like 3-4 days after, the damage could have been worse.

    Godbless.
  • fw2database#6189 fw2database Posts: 120 Arc User
    Worse?) With bidding gAH they got thosands dismonds on each lot. But I can tell more. They disabled gAH on client side only. And I can tell more... now if to enable it (any can do it with some knowledges) character after bidding a lot can overbid himself... more easily to use this bug...
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    FW2, most of people didn't know that, but now they do.
  • fw2database#6189 fw2database Posts: 120 Arc User
    > @copolong#9918 said:
    > FW2, most of people didn't know that, but now they do.

    Bug can use Monarchs, so even if u know how and dont have vip12 u wont use it
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User

    It's not only a question of how such a mistake in the system had taken place here again, nor the idea that the exploiters are pears and not apples, which is inexorably true. It's very important that we can look a little beyond the first span from our nose, and we can discover and discuss how the consequences of that error in the system, has had an effect on the game. Sitting on the sofa with a cigarette in your hand and airs of pacifism to say that the bad guys have been caught and peace reigns again, is the childish mentality that has been eating away at everything.

    We have not been properly informed during the course of this whole problem, and that is another problem. Here's something that's not working as it should, and that's communication between them and us. As long as this communication is between the slave and the master, the situation of the game will not improve.


    All this is not over yet, there was someone who made a point of talking about the improper use of the Heal' function and only received snot on it. This is the problem with this community, that if you write a half-serious text about something, three-quarters of them will cry and tell you that you are rude, but when they have a solid complaint in front of them, they are only right to throw dirt on what they readed.


    And now they are very relaxed because certain players have been banned, in a more than insufficient total population. Which denotes the poor group perspective. This game couldn't afford a cleanse like that, and that means a lot.
    There are hardly any new players, I saw some but they disappeared soon, so there were only a few of us left, and we're all fed up.

    In Illyfue they have banned a few, those who claimed to have the world behind them and to represent the good and the community, have been the ones who have fallen on all fours to the option of doing things wrong. It's another thing that crawled long ago, ignored, as everything in this blessed space is ignored.

    Options?

    We can continue praying, wolf wandering, and howling at the administration, it's useless but beautiful.

    I am concerned about the economy of the game after this monumental shaking of the pillars.
    I am concerned about the balance between players (the survivors), because I see cracks.
    Well, I don't really care, but it's something I'm thinking about, and managers should do the same.
    I'm concerned about the distrust of security. At this point they could approach us and tell us a little bit about all this we have in hand. If Anole can write in the forum about the prizes of a contest, or that the shop has been repaired, why not address the plebeians and spend some time with them as well?

  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    @fw2database#6189 Yes, I know that being a Monarch is a requirement. I was just smiling at your information.

    I guess they're working on it. As they say. When players know before and better than administrators what happens in the game, the worst is to be expected.
  • fw2database#6189 fw2database Posts: 120 Arc User
    > @copolong#9918 said:
    > @fw2database#6189 Yes, I know that being a Monarch is a requirement. I was just smiling at your information.
    >
    > I guess they're working on it. As they say. When players know before and better than administrators what happens in the game, the worst is to be expected.

    Yes)) working on it)))
  • jespervestman12jespervestman12 Posts: 85 Arc User
    > @fw2database#6189 said:
    > > @copolong#9918 said:
    > > @fw2database#6189 Yes, I know that being a Monarch is a requirement. I was just smiling at your information.
    > >
    > > I guess they're working on it. As they say. When players know before and better than administrators what happens in the game, the worst is to be expected.
    >
    > Yes)) working on it)))

    Do u play the game mate are u from tytan? Whats youre ingame name if so?
    Wandering if I ever saw u around
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    I don't know him, but I'am from Illyfue, not playing in other server or character. A_Mortuum.
  • fw2database#6189 fw2database Posts: 120 Arc User
    If me then i dont play it
  • killermaschinkillermaschin Posts: 5 Arc User
    edited July 2018
    The game is dead. Even arena is boring now.

    And the funniest thing is:
    Banned people getting refunds of their purchases this year...what do we get, that still play? Only a broken game with no population
    Or a bankrupt company because of the refunds xD
    Post edited by killermaschin on
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User

    Game was boring and lacking on population before the banns, let's be honest.
    And if you suggest that to prevent the boredoom we should accept cheaters, let me tell you what the game shoul do before such a deshonor:

    Seppuku.

    2

    :smile:
  • killermaschinkillermaschin Posts: 5 Arc User
    no i dont suggest to accept cheaters
    im just mad that they get refunds and if we dont get anything
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    Hi again, @killermaschin , I said 'if' because I wasn't sure of your argumentative principles. I apologize as far as you are concerned, but I keep my idea of Seppuku as a metaphor, of course.

    About the money back, I don't think we should meddle in that, as it's legally stipulated, and I doubt if it would be useful for those of us who are left to worry about returns.
    Morally it seems inconceivable, but as I say, legally, it's another story.

    Anyway, I would like to know, what proof, that these returns have been given...
  • dazy420#3112 dazy420 Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    Hi again, @killermaschin , I said 'if' because I wasn't sure of your argumentative principles. I apologize as far as you are concerned, but I keep my idea of Seppuku as a metaphor, of course.

    About the money back, I don't think we should meddle in that, as it's legally stipulated, and I doubt if it would be useful for those of us who are left to worry about returns.
    Morally it seems inconceivable, but as I say, legally, it's another story.

    Anyway, I would like to know, what proof, that these returns have been given...

    If you create an account you agree with the ToS. If I remember correctly ToS state that leaves are non refundable (and a charge back is only valid under certain stipulations). Why would somebody qualify for a refund if they were purposely disobeying the ToS and therefore getting banned. That I don't understand. Last time I checked you can't just get your money back for a service you already received (which PWE would be able to proof), especially after months have passed. My question is, what is the law that provides a "workaround" for that, I'm curious.

    As for the proof, one of our guildies received a screen of a former guildies refunds (around 500+ EUR) via whatsapp. Can't post it here since I don't have access to the screen (and even if I had I wouldn't post stuff containing other people's sensitive information on here). I don't know how much value this information has for you, take it or leave it, can't provide anything more unfortunately.

    Also now that they seem to be done with their 'investigations' I think some sort of statement would be nice.
    Is there going to be any kind of compensation? Or are we going to be left with this mess and nothing else is gonna happen? Maybe @anole300#5837 can shed some light onto this.
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    What Up, @dazy420#3112 ...

    -First of all, I don't have the bad habit of pronouncing myself categorically on what I don't know. The first thing I thought of, when we talked about monetary refunds was precisely this. I mean, I don't believe and I don't stop believing. Given what you said, I still lack information. For example, what conditions are necessary for the customer (that is what we are) to be entitled (legally, not morally) to ask for a refund?

    It's exclusive for the ability to recover, the ability to exploit errors in the system?...
    I don't know, maybe if the conditions for the first are met, the second fact is something to be solved appart.
    For example. And there're more '?'

    The players who have exploited the error have been banned. There have been consequences for their actions. It's logical that the same should happen with its economy, as long as the law provides for this. And I personally have nothing against it. Morally, everything is always more complex, if I depart from what is reasonable and purely logical, I would say something else, for example, I would say that these people don't deserve to recover money, and should be fined for the damage they have caused to the community and to the game itself, structurally. But frankly, I prefer to work with reason.

    Anyway, while I answer you again I doubt that this proof is true, the banned ones must feel very bad after having lost, (presumably, we will see what happens...) their Ego in Bit format. (I smile) It's not that I want to contradict you, it may be that someone wanted to take out his chest and say that in spite of his wrongdoing, he has money back, so he is less ashamed now; but, even if it's true, ignoring the case of that person, it's absurd to write more about it. Idk.

    What I do support is that someone comes to this uninhabited forum to give explanations, but I doubt it, contests and promotions....that's all we see after a monumental hole, of which we don't even know the innocence...

    But people keep opening Orbes, and after a lunge like this, if people keep opening Orbes the message is very clear to them: "Let the party continue".

    I have always said that it's a question of mentality, if the community is not united in what is relevant, it's impossible to have power in the decisions of the administration. And all we have to do is watch the game die, since I don't believe in miraculous resurrections. Keep in mind that this does not cost them money, some changes here, and others there, that is all we perceive, however for the people who bought this version, the profits have exceeded the costs, and now even if there are only four cats left spending euros, they will be fine. And all without putting a stick in the water.

  • dazy420#3112 dazy420 Posts: 12 Arc User
    edited July 2018

    For example, what conditions are necessary for the customer (that is what we are) to be entitled (legally, not morally) to ask for a refund?

    If you check out the European consumer protection directive (the part about digital goods) it states that digital goods are non refundable if the consumer acknowledged before purchasing, that they will not have any right of withdrawal. This is a given considering that this is literally part of the ToS which everybody agrees on when creating an account (correct me if I'm wrong). So even legally I don't see anything that justifies a refund. Idk.

    Anyway, while I answer you again I doubt that this proof is true, the banned ones must feel very bad after having lost, (presumably, we will see what happens...) their Ego in Bit format. (I smile) It's not that I want to contradict you, it may be that someone wanted to take out his chest and say that in spite of his wrongdoing, he has money back, so he is less ashamed now; but, even if it's true, ignoring the case of that person, it's absurd to write more about it. Idk.

    Thing is, why would various people from different servers, with different entourages, state the very same thing independently? I highly doubt that there's a secret exploiters club scheming ways to delude the community.

    And while you think it's not worth talking about it, I think it is a very relevant thing to discuss. It's relevant for active players which might want to spent in the future. If I didn't know about it I would've prolly spent for the current spent rewards and astroplane mats. If more people knew about this, maybe more people would refuse to spent? Maybe even the 'four cats'? We don't know. But I don't think ignoring things is helpful. Awareness is key. This thread is proof in itself, isn't it?

    We already learned that PWE didn't take actions before they knew every single detail about the bug, even though it was reported before the thread was created. Those people that recreated the bug on a private server prolly wouldn't even have done that in the first place, if this topic hadn't been discussed publicly and the thing could still be going on even now. And those who were suspicious about the exploiters might still be frowned upon. 'You're imagining things. They just CS a lot' is what majority of people were thinking up until the day the first players got banned.

    I have always said that it's a question of mentality, if the community is not united in what is relevant [...]

    Unfortunately that doesn't even really work 'in real life'. I doubt it will ever on the internet. Unity and selfishness don't really go together and since you can stay 'hidden' behind your avatar, it's a lot easier here to be selfish than it is in the 'outside world'. What's right and wrong shifts depending on points of view and it becomes completely irrelevant when your point of view is solely focused on your own goals/whishes/whatever. Hell, I was threatened by some tool for reporting a player he likes, but he himself reported countless other exploiters (which he doesn't like). For them it's irrelevant that those people did the same selfish thing. It's hypocritical. But that's the mentality of our society and it's even worse on the internet.

    Anywho.. excuse the socialcritical digression lol..
  • copolong#9918 copolong Posts: 369 Arc User
    Ok, @dazy420#3112 I'am with you in a big per cent.

    Except for the digression thing. I think it would be very appropriate to have an aerial view of the issue in order to understand the structure of the picture. Those who said that the state of the community is something that has nothing to do with the issues of the game, are the ones who are no longer with us...

    I don't mind being the annoying one to talk about it in every post, unless the evidence tells me one day, that really, all things are not interconnected.

    Thank you for your input.
    I cannot add more to the question of monetary repayment, as it's not in my power to do anything about it. You see anyone explaining themselves? I'm not. I like it? As much as you.

    If the game has had security problems for a long time, why have people continued to spend money?
    If the game has had management problems for a long time, why are we still waiting to be treated as we have invested?

    As you can see, the evidence tells us one thing, but the individual decisions of many people have gone in another direction.

    In fact, only yesterday Orbes opened up, if after a problem like this, and the unacceptable management that has been carried out by the administrators, the people continue to spend, we are condemned to be treated like idiots. Life is like that, the righteous pay for sinners.
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