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Help with a force build please
Archived Post
Posts: 1,156,071 Arc User
Hi everyone,
First of all, I don't want to make an uber character, just a fun one that fits the concept : energy type toon.
Now, I've chosen the Force Framework because it fits nicely this concept, but I have some trouble finding usefull powers beyond lvl30
Here's the build i've come up with so far :
Build by championBuilder 0.2.4
Download this Build here.
Ryltaar: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 5: Super Endurance
Level 13: Super Ego
Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts (refraction advantage)
Level 1: Force Blast (rank 3)
Level 5: Personal Force Field (rank 3)
Level 5: Flight
Level 8: Force Eruption (gravity mist advantage)
Level 11: Field Surge
Level 14: Force Cascade
Level 17: Resurgence
Level 20: Condemn (Rank 3)
Level 23: Protection Field
Level 26: Rebirth
Level 29: Force Shield
Level 32: Shadow Shroud
Level 35: Nanobot Swarm
Level 35: Teleport
Level 38: Dark Transfusion
Talents:
Level 1: Impetus
Level 6: Energetic
Level 9: Indomitable
Level 12: Agile
Level 15: Daredevil
Level 18: Accurate
Level 21: Amazing Stamina
My problem is for lvl29 and above. I'd like :
- A nice crowd control power. Solved. Condemn FTW !
- a self damage buff. Most of them I see need either a passive form slot, or just won't help my crushing force damage Is there any damage buff I can use with force powers ? I've taken Shadow Shroud because apparently, it increases all damage, is it good ?
- Some form of heal. I've chosen Psionic healing (because it's clic/charge) but I read it scales with presence and my character doesn't have any. Is it still good without presence ?
Any input on powers you might think usefull is greatly welcome and thank you for your time
EDIT : Since my char is now 25, i've updated my build
First of all, I don't want to make an uber character, just a fun one that fits the concept : energy type toon.
Now, I've chosen the Force Framework because it fits nicely this concept, but I have some trouble finding usefull powers beyond lvl30
Here's the build i've come up with so far :
Build by championBuilder 0.2.4
Download this Build here.
Ryltaar: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 5: Super Endurance
Level 13: Super Ego
Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts (refraction advantage)
Level 1: Force Blast (rank 3)
Level 5: Personal Force Field (rank 3)
Level 5: Flight
Level 8: Force Eruption (gravity mist advantage)
Level 11: Field Surge
Level 14: Force Cascade
Level 17: Resurgence
Level 20: Condemn (Rank 3)
Level 23: Protection Field
Level 26: Rebirth
Level 29: Force Shield
Level 32: Shadow Shroud
Level 35: Nanobot Swarm
Level 35: Teleport
Level 38: Dark Transfusion
Talents:
Level 1: Impetus
Level 6: Energetic
Level 9: Indomitable
Level 12: Agile
Level 15: Daredevil
Level 18: Accurate
Level 21: Amazing Stamina
My problem is for lvl29 and above. I'd like :
- A nice crowd control power. Solved. Condemn FTW !
- a self damage buff. Most of them I see need either a passive form slot, or just won't help my crushing force damage
Is there any damage buff I can use with force powers ? I've taken Shadow Shroud because apparently, it increases all damage, is it good ?- Some form of heal. I've chosen Psionic healing (because it's clic/charge) but I read it scales with presence and my character doesn't have any. Is it still good without presence ?
Any input on powers you might think usefull is greatly welcome and thank you for your time
EDIT : Since my char is now 25, i've updated my build
Post edited by Archived Post on
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Comments
I'm not sure what the point of superstatting Ego is unless it's paired with Dex. Do you see enough big critical hits for it to be worthwhile? If I respec I'll probably swap one of mine for Strength. Knocking everybody down = More time to heal.
I'm having trouble picking powers already so I look forward to seeing other people's suggestions.
Ego helps with PFF regeneration, and adds bigger crits. Surprisingly, it's easier to find stuff with +DEX than +EGO so I'm just stuffing myself with END/EGO/DEX and it works quite nicely.
Thx for the tip on Psionic healing, i'll stick to resurgence then.
Aside from that, i'm havind the same problems as you : I have 4 main attacks (force bolt, force blast, force eruption and force cascade -> very fun
Any other comment is welcomed
If you intend to use Force Cascade, Energy Refraction upgrade for Force bolts should almost be required. Only way you will be able to get full use from Cascade. Which is a very situational power, there are times when I wonder if it is a waste and times I love it.
I am also a mainly Force based toon, currently level 19.9999 and I'm not sure what to take later in the game.
Here are the things I can add though:
1. Your superstats should be END and EGO. No question. PFF scales with both. Mix in some REC (if needed) and a lot of DEX.
2. Check out the Circle of Arcane from the Sorcery skills. It sets up a circle that will fill your END bar up for as long as you want. The damn thing lasts for hours if you stand inside of it.
Now, VoltPD is talking about a strategy where you use a different way to get END with upgrading Force Bolts. That's a fine way to go but I prefer my way.
Here is how my current engagements go:
1. Stop flying to let my END have *just enough* to laydown the circle of arcane.
2. Small Force Eruption to setup polarity mist thingy that increases damage (now I'm getting END and +DMG by standing in this spot)
3. Charge up Force Blast to the fullest and let it be my Alpha Strike.
4. Tap Force Blast to unload volley after volley of Force Blast. This results in about 1/3 the amount of DMG per shot but each one also has a chance to CRIT. With my EGO a superstat (to help with PFF) that's not something to over look. (Hence the recommendation for more DEX)
5. Pull next mob to this same spot or move on.
Now, my very next power will be Force Cascade. With the Circle going I'll be in full attack mode even using this massive END draining power.
DRAWBACKS:
Last night I was teaming with one other guy. He would engage the mobs while I was still setting up my Circles of Arcane and Mist thingy. By the time I was ready he had at least one target down. Not a big deal but just a heads up.
Also, it is really important that you have enough recovery to setup the Circle without having to engage the enemy. If not then this strategy does not work as well.
So .... all this text just to say:
Look at getting Circle of Arcane. I quess you could look at the other circles if you don't care about the END building. I think I saw one for +DMG as well. PROTIP: Only one circle out at a time. Don't try to take two...
Arms is better for Might players (STR/CON focus), Myst is good for Force (EGO/PRE) and Science is good for Socery/PA (INT focus).
Arms
Utility Major: 1) END, 2) EGO, 3) INT
Utility Minor: 1) CON, 2) END, 3) EGO
Defense Major: 1) CON
Defense Minor: 1) STR, 2) DEX, 3) REC
Offense Major: 1) STR, 2) DEX, 3) REC
Offense Minor: 1) CON, 2) STR, 3) DEX
Mysticism
Utility Major: 1) EGO, 2) INT, 3) END
Utility Minor: 1) EGO2) PRE3) INT
Defense Major: 1) PRE
Defense Minor: 1) EGO, 2) END, 3) INT
Offense Major: 1) REC, 2) DEX, 3) STR
Offense Minor: 1) PRE, 2) REC, 3) STR
Science
Utility Major: 1) INT, 2) END, 3) EGO
Utility Minor: 1) INT, 2) END, 3) CON
Defense Major: 1) PRE/CON
Defense Minor: 1) INT, 2) END, 3) EGO
Offense Major: 1) DEX, 2) REC, 3) STR
Offense Minor: 1) REC, 2) DEX, 3) CON
Might - STR/CON
Electricity - REC/END
Fire - PRE/REC
Force - EGO/END
Ice - DEX/REC
Archery - DEX/INT
Gadgeteer - INT/END
Munitions - DEX/EGO
Powered Armor - STR/INT
Dual Blades - STR/DEX
Fighting Claws - STR/DEX
Single Blade - STR/DEX
Martial Arts - STR/DEX
Telekinesis - CON/EGO
Telepathy - EGO/PRE
Darkness - CON/END
Sorcery - INT/PRE
Supernatural - CON/REC
Energy Refraction is a chance to proc an additional self force field which is an energy form. So when you shoot Cascade it draws most of the power from a free proc energy form. Would love to see somebody provide some numbers of exactly what EGO does for your PFF. I can tell you superstatting CON give me about 3,600 HPS and my Force Field absorbs around 1,600 I think at level 25. I have no EGO or EGO equipment.
How I was using it was when the mobs got in around me I would pop that so it held them (so I would not take damage) then I could do my work on them at that point.
I have retconed out of the power at this time because (though I found it useful) I think it was a bit early for me to use that kind of power. Now I am at some point where the mobs are hitting alot harder and some form of CC is going to be big help so I am considering another go with it.
Instead I took PSIONIC HEALING. Great power. I can heal myself even during combat and heal my teammates. It scales off of presence though so ... I guess I should have built up that stat.
I also found that EGO SPRITES is a nice crowd DoT attack. Uses next to no END and ticks damage away while you keep fighting.
Also, SUMMON NIGHTMARE is a great first shot since it grabs the aggro and does decent DoT.
TELEKENSIS (the power) was cool and fit my theme but I'd save it for later in the game. That power needs to give you something to throw. Otherwise it just takes waaay to long to find something to throw, lift it, find a target within range and throw... seems more like a "hey watch this power" than a real power.
TELEKINETIC WAVE was cool. Used a bit of END and has a 20 second timer on it. Seems like a much better cone force/wave/blast power than FORCE CASCADE.
I tried some things and here's my comments.
Condemn is absolutly tremendous ! It hits really hard (+2600 on crits @ lvl25 and rank 3), hold targets during 17 seconds and is quite wide. I just love it and it helps a lot with any kind of mobs (only elite Villains are imune to the hold).
The down side of it : you need to fully charge it in order to apply the hold for sure (tap can hold them, but much weaker chances...). And since my equilibrium isn't great (around 60 of 230 max energy), I can't open with it. But it is definatly worth it ^^ If you don't have a CC yet, try it
I've also taken the polarity mist from Force Eruption and it is a really nice dps boost, helps a lot and very easy to reapply the 20 seconds buff. Nice ^^
With the hold and the damage buff, I survive longer and hit harder, all cool.
Now, for my last powers, I was thinking of :
- Rebirth : situational but can be useful I think. Has anyone tested yet ?
- Nanobot swarm : -30 seconds on cooldown, since I have 2 defensive cd (resurgence and field surge), it can help
- Dark transfusion : unlimited energy for 15 seconds but how much health do you loose while you have it ?
- Shadow shroud : another dps boost
Any thoughts on those powers ? Thx again ^^
Force Cascade is currently my 2nd favourite power in the game (behind telekinesis)
It will completely consume your energy though IF YOU ARE NOT IN AN ENERGY FORM. Took me some time to realize this when I first got it (comes from not reading the description) but in an energy form the energy is greatly reduced and as it consumes the form. As someone else stated, the best method for this is the energy refraction advantage for energy bolts since this procs an energy form occasionally.
At level 20 my fully charged force cascade is hitting everyone in the stream for 2x the damage of a force blast and higher chance of knockback. Give it a try.
(I do try to avoid using it though once I've activated field surge though, wouldn't want to break that early
I feel for all of you still attempting to use PFF.
If only I could respec it off, if it wouldnt' cost 5times the money I have on the toons its stiting on..... (nice one Cryptic!)
I know, it does seem awfully weak now. I do not have a great deal of Ego, I chose end and rec which In hope to respec when the free one comes through. I do however try and equip ego items on my character, and it barely holds up for the first 2 seconds against 3 henchmen.
EGO affects only the regen rate of your PFF. Since it can't regen when fighting, it won't help you that much
The strengh of your PFF is based on your END. So keep stuffing yourself with END.
@BarxBaron : to be honest, I made this character post-1st september, which means I never had the "good" PFF. So from my perspective, it isn't broken at all, I think it works well even... Not amazingly well granted, but well enough
Which begs the question : do you find the Force framework weak because of it's status at the moment, or because you miss how it was before ?
I took the hold on my force cascade. If I need to throw it, it knocks everyone back, puts them in a force bubble and gives me time to build energy. That with force detonation is guaranteed to kill henchmen. Once I rank up force cascade, there wont be anything left to put into bubbles after it goes off. I love that things rarely get near me. It isn't an active build like electricity, and it takes longer to get powers off, but those powers hit awfully hard.
I have issues with the PFF. I think it is about 50% too weak, but it is manageable. You just need to be careful with how fast you blow through groups.
Like I said earlier if you intend to actually use Cascade you need an energy form. The one I chose was Refraction buff for my force bolts. This power at random procs an additional force field which is considered an energy form. I can fully charge up cascade and with positioning 1 Shot most henchman, there seems to be a cap of 5 mobs that it can affect but I have 1 Shot 5 henchman at once easily.
Another option I heard about in Beta was taking one of the sorcery circles which is considered an energy form to use as the catalyst for Cascade, nice in that you are not waiting for a random proc you can create it whenever you need. Bad in that you obviously must cast the circle before being able to use the cascade.
I think Force is one of the more versatile power sets in the game. It seems to fit both aggressive and defensive minded players. I tend to walk the line between both, using Force Bolts to reel enemies in, setting off a Force Eruption (with the Polarity advantage) to knock them back and then using Force Blast (with extra damage from Polarity) to finish them off. If they approach again I set rev up energy with Bolts and set off another Force Eruption.
Ditto Dwarven_Lord about being careful with groups. For tougher mobs I'll take my time and keep a careful eye on energy use. This sometimes means using one fully charged Force Blast to put one enemy close to max damage. Or using Containment Field to take one out of the fight while recharging and doing damage to another using Bolts. This strategy has worked great for me with same level enemies and with patience and effective distancing has worked with 4 count mobs one level above. I'm loaded with DEX for increased critcals and added some higher intelligence to reduce power costs.
I do have Personal Force Field but if I pick my first target well I don't have to worry too much about it being weaker than before. But after reading this thread I'm going to think seriously about picking up the Circle of Arcane Power.
I did the second thing you mentioned Volt. It's called Circle of Arcane and you use up all of the power it generates in lvl 1 with Force Cascade.
Personally, I prefer a PBAoE over a cone version of the same thing I am already using... You really should try out the Circle of Arcane. It works out great for the regular force blasts.
I can't recommend it enough. The circle turns your toon into a machine gun of Force Blasts since you do not have to build energy any more. For the best effect, I tap Force Blast. Gives me a better chance to Crit and it will auto lock onto the next target. VERY efficient IMHO.
Does anyone use a satisfying one at the moment ? Thx for the help
Build by championBuilder 0.2.4
Download this Build here.
Force Knight: Level 40 Champion
Superstats:
Level 5: Super Endurance
Level 13: Super Strength
Powers:
Level 1: Force Bolts -- Energy Refraction
Level 1: Force Blast -- Rank 2, Crippling Challenge
Level 5: Personal Force Field -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 5: Flight -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 8: Force Eruption -- Rank 2, Gravitational Polarity
Level 11: Force Shield -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheath
Level 14: Force Cascade -- Rank 2, Containment Blast
Level 17: Field Surge -- Rank 2, Rank 3
Level 20: Psionic Healing
Level 23: Protection Field
Level 26: Rebirth
Level 29: Ego Hold
Level 32: Concussor Beam -- Rank 2, Rank 3, Accelerated Metabolism
Level 35: Quarry
Level 35: Teleport
Level 38:
Talents:
Level 1: Impetus
Level 6: Indomitable
Level 9: Energetic
Level 12: Mighty
Level 15: Bodybuilder
Level 18: Relentless
Level 21: Tireless
Still haven't decided on a final power, don't really need anything else... Ego hold is also not for sure, I'm still playing around with what CC I like (I have the force one, but the not allowed to hurt him inside it gets annoying), but I have a respec to play with after tonight
I do highly recommend something for straight up damage, that's why I have concussor beam. Force blast is ok, and has pretty nice end efficiency, but just doesn't cut it sometimes. Besides, I gave that crippling challenge
Build up your superstats, line up all your enemies and fully charge force cascade...it is something special
How does it work for you guys ? Do you have some real exemples of what you do when using force cascade+hold ?
Edit : question to Mr.Funsocks : how well does psionic healing work for you ? It is based on presence, how much can you heal yourself (or others) @lvl40 ?
I took Resurgence and I get 1200HP @lvl25, it's about 1/3 of my life, not bad ^^
Another question about Crippling Challenge for Force Blast : I can see a +20% increase while soloing is nice, but what about groups ? Having the end instance master villain locked on you might be a bit dangerous no ?
i don't have energy refraction but i did have gravitational polarity (cloud i guess you could call it) out
so i was one who was not very impressed with it since i could only get off one full power shot, and the damage was less than force blast but then again i am comparing rank 1 of cascade to force blast 2 fully charged
Lvl 13 ATM
I figure the extra strengh helps with knockbacks,(and damage) just about 100% of the time I knockback(also being able to pick up just about anything and toss it like a cookie is nice
I also took Laser sword so the strengh helps out with my damage there - too bad thats the only laser sword attack... a cone would be nice..the fast animation allows me to spam it(provided I have the end) even un ranked the damage is pretty nice
I went Con as my second simply because I plan on being really active in fights, opening with force blast and/or erruption then leaping, slicing n dicing once they get into melee range. also extra HP is good for when PFF drops.. I've got about 1900 HP in "average" stance at lvl 13.. that seems to be pretty good from what I've seen compairing other toons my level or above
I also took PFF as it fits my concept, although relfexes would fit my concept more... I dont have any Dex in my build...perhaps since I'm strengh/Con Invul. would be better suited
I plan on picking up electricity later on to help with my ranged damage, just not sure what attack (and when) to pick up
I'm also not sure what hold/CC I choose...right now my Stats (@13) from Highest to lowest are:
Con 64ish, strengh 60ish, End 40 ish, recovery 35-38 ish, dex 30 or so and the rest in late teens
Force cascade's hold is the sex. A fully charged cascade will usually take out or badly wound (to like 5% health) all the henchmen, and if you aim it right you can just make it so you miss one villain, take him out, and if there's more, you take them out when the cascade ends.
All heals scale with presence. I still take one on every character, you have 14 powers, wtf are you gonna do with 'em all? It heals me now for about 1300 when I'm in defensive role, heals others for about 1000, which isn't a lot, but having your own heal is just incredibly useful.
Crippling challenge is a taunt skill. Generally, I'm the best defensive guy in most groups, so I want to be taunting, but if I'm not, I just don't use it, I use concussor beam.
One last question : how much damage do you need to do to "break" the bubble from force cascade ?
(If it's too much, my teammates might find it anoying
Another question actually.
I have PFF right now and with the free respec, I was considering changing it for Regen (like my other characters). I think PFF is ok, but when fighting big master vilains with a lot of charged up attacks, I often feel defenseless...
But before doing so, is regen effective without CON as superstat ? I can't really compare with my other toons as they are CON/DEX or CON/END so...
Or maybe I should drop EGO and Go with END/REC ? Any thoughts ?
P.S : my character is mainly Force based.
PFF is pretty nice, with end as a superstate, I have about 5-6k health, and my PFF is about 4-5k and will regen at least partially within a few seconds. Tends to work best on things that either can swap aggro to someone else for a bit, or can fall victim to CC. Master villains tend to be hardest, as I'm probably not in a group and they're invulnerable to most all knockbacks and holds.
Rec as a superstat is mostly unnecessary as force, force shield and all your force bubbles (including the protection field you can cast on other people) give ludicrous amounts of end.
This is because the arcane circle is an energy form, and cascade consumes an energy form.
I tried the arcane circle myself, was excited because I could finally unleash a fully charged cascade. But its not worth it (imo) - takes a few seconds for the circle, then a few more seconds to charge and fire cascade. Ok - good damage if you have a few bad guys lined up, but didnt seem to be a lot more damage fully charged over quarter.
What I found was great (after seeing this thread) was energy refraction on force bolts - every time it goes off - free cascade! Works well.
When i first got it, id use containment field on a dummy...then i would blast the dummy, force blast would go straight through and do its full damage as normal AND do and AOE outwards as well.
But...when i left the PH, i found this no longer worked:
- Contaiment field on
- Fired force blast
- It SAYS its doing the 240 dmg for example TOO the target effected by the hold
- No damage actually taken
So i went back INTO the PH to test it again...then nope, force blast was no longer doing damage to the target effected by contaiment field with force blast "field absorbtion" advantage, it says it is in the combat message, it did it when I FIRST GOT the power, but now it doesnt do crap to that target...at least the AOE still works.
Any of you guys know whats going on here? Ive bug reported it, but no reply yet ><.
According to Champion Builder, it absorbs up to 1 damage for 10 sec. I've never used it but from what people are saying, either CB is wrong or the power is bugged.
Seems my ticket status has turned into the auto "we are looking into it" idea.
Hopefully they notice it as a bug, one wat or the other.
I had a couple of open powers, so I picked up force blast and containment field. I went to the target dummies, put one in the containment field, blasted it with force blast, checked my combat log. All damage was absorbed by the containment field. No worries, I hadn't taken the force blast advantage yet, so that was expected.
Then, I went back, picked up the advantage...went back to the dummy, repeated the process. Same exact thing happened. No graphical change in either power. According to the combat log, all damage was still absorbed by the field. I was so weirded out I went back and checked I had actually selected the advantage. Then I retconned everything, reselected, and tried again. Still didn't work.
I think I've heard of other people getting it to work, but it certainly never did for me. I know the devs mentioned this in a chat recently, so apparently they think it should work, but I've never seen it. Right now there are so many bugs with existing powers it's hard to tell how things are actually suppose to work though.
As for holds... I hate Force Hold. The bubble makes the hold next to useless, unless your are using it to get force detonation combo or to get out of a hairy situation, in which case, I'd say get another ability, say smoke bomb or something, as opposed to wasting adv points and gimping yo' moves.
I'm probably gonna go with the hold from Telekinesis (Ego Hold, not the Choke move) and give it the slow adv. Its not AE, but its cheap and reliable, with added utility with the slow to boot.
So im right, it is bust...and no1 seems to care is what gets me, this is an important thing!
On PTS its still doing the same thing =z