It's time to start taking ideas from Neverwinter and STO

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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    On the gripping hand, you only incur the major cost of creating a seasonal event once. When it rolls around again in subsequent years, development only has to concern itself with minor tweaks before moving on to bigger and better things.

    Minor tweaks and adding a few fun new additions.
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  • thatcursedwolf
    thatcursedwolf Posts: 484 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    And today marks the beginning of the Risa Summer Event in STO, and I believe next week the summer Jubilee starts in Neverwinter. If you want to get people interested having events like these would be a start.

    So much could be done to get people playing, a brand new event zone would go a long way to getting people interested.

    Oh yay, yet another summer event grind. Wooo. I'd be soooooo excited and chomping at the bit to log in to another game for 25 of 35 days to do the same event each day.

    CO's event is that there is no event to sap your will to play.
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  • jzsquared
    jzsquared Posts: 0 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    You must be new here. Let me tell you how this works. Perfect World owns Champions Online. They don't have to answer to anyone about it. They are, however, licensed to make Neverwinter and Star Trek Online. They do have to answer to someone for those games, and the state that they are in. If they're not doing well, the license will probably be pulled. Therefor, they are more concerned with keeping their license for those games, than keep up a game that they own the rights to, and is pretty old.

    Also it has been mentioned before. If a game isn't making much money, they won't be putting more money into it to improve it. That's just a business decision. They will, however, keep players hanging on and paying more money, while putting in minimal effort on the game. Also the fact that they're revamping the tutorial is a bad sign. These free to play games, often work like the free to play mobile games. They thrive on new players. People who are curious, check it out, and spend some money on it before they realize what is wrong with it. They then get bored and move on. But at this point the company doesn't care, because they already made their money off of that player. So in order to survive, they need a constant revolving door of new players willing to spend money on the game. It takes minimal effort on their part, with maximum profit. How do you think games like Clash of Clans are doing so well?

    I've been playing this game since it first launched. I'm not playing it now, but I always come back to see what's new. I really enjoy playing my characters, and would love for them to add all of the features you mentioned. The cold hard truth is, they won't.
  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    As for the events. Again, this falls into my listing of "Things NW actually kinda did right" in that their events may be hit and miss IMO but they're pretty simple, smallish, and pretty much rigged up to a light switch so when things get a lil slowish...Boom...Mini-event. CO actually could benefit from such a thing...actually, I did a write-up on this suggestion a while back. I will now share it as optional reading through the magic of copy/paste.
    Crosschan wrote:
    Ok, this is one of the VERY few(See: VERY VERY FEW) things I would like to see taken from NW and adapted into CO.

    Disclaimer: I will be attempting to loosely translate this into CO Terms so it's not final math and such by any stretch.

    NW has the occasional "small weekend event"(STO does as well actually since alot of things in NW are kind of warped copies of STO things) which is something like...

    -A Special Alert with stuff like Special Mods(uncommon-ish drops), an event themed sidekick summon(semi-rare), and/or(usually and) some weapon geo unlocks(either fairly common or bought from a vendor with tokens). The idea with these, in theory, is that once they're all set up they can just flip the "switch" and turn them on for the weekend from time to time when something big isn't running. It gives players something to do. Keep in mind that in NW their Special Alerts are basically 1 per leveling tier so what they're essentially doing is letting players sidekick into the alerts of that tier and get a crack at the perks, lore, original rewards, and the special event rewards. CO would, of course, need it's own special alerts for this kind of thing since all the special alerts we have currently are in the rotation already.

    -The Farm Weekend(Better title pending) where these they put Grab Bags everywhere in the game's drop tables and you have to basically farm mobs with X levels of your toon's current level to get them. These could have Unlocks, Questionite(like ballpark 2k), Globals(like ballpark 50g), Tokens for Unlocks(Like the Lost Unlocks), Lost AFs(Which are BoE), or Special Mods. Keep in mind, from a design perspective, we already have what I would consider the basics of this already in the old Drifter Events. Also keep in mind you don't need a Key to open a Grab Bag so these are purely for fun and you get as many as you put in the effort to get so long as luck allows(these shouldn't be super hard to get really).

    Ok, so the thing most interesting to me in this setup after getting fun lil mini-events to run with friends, is the Special Mods. They drop from roughly R1 to R4 randomly off of anything in the event so they're not super hard to get. The end reward ring usually kicks in a R3 to R5 ontop of other rewards for completions(some cash, a token if there is one, and one of the other special rewards if you're lucky). Currently, in my experiences, most people are pretty meh in CO when it comes to R1-R3 Mods but in this case with the rarity of which Special Mod will be with which event and not knowing when it'll show up next...people tend to collect even the smaller ones just to combine up as much as they can in the time they have.

    So here's a guestimation/translation of what this could look like in CO:
    Because I'm lazy let's say these can either be Enchanting or Armoring(they're special and universal like that).

    Duelist(Cruel) Mod:
    -Utility Slot: +X% Acclaim Gain(I know I know) -and- +X Energy on Kill(Old PR Levels)
    -Offense: +X Str -and- +X Rec
    -Defense: +Def -and- +Deflection(weak)

    Velocity(Brutal) Mod:
    -Utility Slot: +X% XP Gain -and- +X% Device CD Reduction
    -Offense: +X Ego -and +X Critical Strike
    -Defense: +HP(Enough to not be a joke) -and- +Con

    Titan(Savage) Mod:
    -Utility: +X% Questionite Bonus -and- +X HP on Kill(Old PR Levels)
    -Offense: +X Armor Pen(weak) -and- +X Dex
    -Defense: +X Dodge -and- +X End

    Jackpot(Tymora) Mod:
    -All: +X Resource Bonus -and- +X% Droprate Bonus

    Ok, and the ontop of these base ones you could introduce....

    -Basic 2 stat combos which are the same number as their single stat versions...just split accross 2 specific stats(Dex/Ego, End/Rec/, Con/Str, and so on..)

    -Or one that emulates the Pss/Sss1/Sss2 split on Heirloom but at 1/2 the value.

    ______________________________________________________________

    Ontop of that, and in less detail cause this is getting long, I'd like to see gear sets expand sideways instead of up, up and more up. I'd like to see variations on the Heirloom/Winter/Q-store Sets(although more focused on a "Primary Set(+3 Piece)" and "Secondaries Set(+3 Piece)" with the occasional "+3 Piece/+6 Piece Bonus Sets." Just the baseline stat allocation designs with neat effects added to them. I know I'd love to see something with Heirloom Scaling and the basic Heroic secondary effects like Off(crit), Def(Def), and Util(CD). IMO, the answer to the "Expansion of CO without raising the lvl caps and expanding gear upwards while at the same time getting people to run stuff is to go sideways, fill in gaps, and then add some crazy stuf(just no costume transforms please, unique auras would be ok so long as you can still see your hero IMO).

    ________________________________________________________________

    I'd like crafting back too(Even in NW they don't consider "Mod Combining" to be "Crafting" and that's before they revamped[see: Broke to pieces for random reasons] the whole system). As has been discussed in the past I don't think the idea of a Boff System like STO had prior to S9 is a terrible idea. The largest complaint I saw with that idea is we'd need some interesting variety in the "BS-Fu Department" on how to explain/validate it for a wide variety of heroes.
    ________________________________________________________________

    That's alot of words. Thanks for sticking around. -The End(For now). :biggrin:

    Ok, so there's that. Read it if you like or don't. It's there.




    This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Kaiserin
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  • klitty
    klitty Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    In STO, you can provide First Aid, which since it's Trek involves squatting next to the downed person and waving a tricorder around; the victim is then resurrected with a moment's paralysis (sometimes enough for bad guys to drop them again - it's happened to me a few times) and about 1/4 their HP.

    I don't know that you can generalize that for a supers game, though. STO can have that because a tricorder is a small, common piece of equipment that almost every member of Starfleet, the Klingon Defense Force, and the Grand Fleet of the Romulan Republic is issued as a matter of course. Can't think of anything comparable in comics.

    I have an idea, what about different First Aid Kit animations depending on the source of the powers? Like a healing drone ball for tech users, a friendly shaman thingie for mysticism and so fort, even give the option to gold users to select, change and color their First Aid Kit mini-power! :D

    And this is my reaction when coming back to check if you guys liked my idea:

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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    klitty wrote: »
    I have an idea, what about different First Aid Kit animations depending on the source of the powers? Like a healing drone ball for tech users, a friendly shaman thingie for mysticism and so fort, even give the option to gold users to select, change and color their First Aid Kit mini-power! :D

    And this is my reaction when coming back to check if you guys liked my idea:

    fire_community.gif

    I don't think they could make something like that based on a power set without making a power for it like block. I just think the ability to pick and ally up after tehy fell down within a time limit would work best. Neverwinter has it, and it can't be abused because falling again results in character death.
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  • klitty
    klitty Posts: 1,545 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I don't think they could make something like that based on a power set without making a power for it like block. I just think the ability to pick and ally up after tehy fell down within a time limit would work best. Neverwinter has it, and it can't be abused because falling again results in character death.

    Ah! Is it like the downed state of Guild Wars 2 where if they don't pick you up (or spam 4 like crazy and pray not getting hit by a wondering fly) you are dead really dead?


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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    klitty wrote: »
    Ah! Is it like the downed state of Guild Wars 2 where if they don't pick you up (or spam 4 like crazy and pray not getting hit by a wondering fly) you are dead really dead?

    It's like 15 seconds if not your character expires. This could be used in Champs, that way the Res powers are not 100% worthless. However, if a character falls a second time while they have what is called res sickness they are dead, so would need a res power. Being picked up during the on deaths door state revives a person back with about a quarter of their HP I think,.
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  • chaelk
    chaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I don't think they could make something like that based on a power set without making a power for it like block. I just think the ability to pick and ally up after tehy fell down within a time limit would work best. Neverwinter has it, and it can't be abused because falling again results in character death.

    yes, that one works better. You have a certain amount of time to res them before they have to respawn.
    You can still get timed out and you can still get repasted.

    so much res sickness, so many wounds.
    so many kits
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  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ok, not a huge fan of the injury kit mechanics from NW because they get pretty annoying pretty quickly but, on the other hand, giving everyone in the game a NW/STO-Style "Combat Rez" could work actually....but at a very low amount of hp. Then, to compensate, you boost and maybe tack on some other utility benefits to the actual rez power so that Cross, a Muni/Gad, can help a fallen comrade in a pinch but Vitae Fortia, A Celestial/Darkness Toon, can do it BETTER because she's invested in being able to do it better. :wink:

    Also, just because I want to min-rant about it, cut out Warlord and Gravitar's "Rez Tracking"...and put Warlord's fire patches on an expiration timer(10-20s, then it expires). Now I realize these aren't huge issues and that alot of people in this thread may have not even encountered them....but not everyone who fights these two are vets(or good because not all vets are good) and I have seen some horror scenarios in my travels. Just something to consider that I felt like mentioning.
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  • kaiserin#0958
    kaiserin#0958 Posts: 2,753 Cryptic Developer
    edited June 2015
    Culled some posts.
  • crypticbuxom
    crypticbuxom Posts: 4,439 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I certainly like the idea of having various "styles" that provide unique bonuses to already existing powers. Maybe when you rez someone and you have a certain style, you provide an extra bonus to them automatically like immune to damage for 5 seconds, rapid healing or automatically activate their form.
  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I certainly like the idea of having various "styles" that provide unique bonuses to already existing powers. Maybe when you rez someone and you have a certain style, you provide an extra bonus to them automatically like immune to damage for 5 seconds, rapid healing or automatically activate their form.

    I don't think we need to add more of anything at this point in time until we cull the stances (aka enrage, all the forms, and so forth and so on) and start bringing things back into proper balance instead of these band aid fixes.
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  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I certainly like the idea of having various "styles" that provide unique bonuses to already existing powers. Maybe when you rez someone and you have a certain style, you provide an extra bonus to them automatically like immune to damage for 5 seconds, rapid healing or automatically activate their form.

    I've recently been playing other games that do very interesting things with this kind of "power interplay". As someone who thinks Champions needs a big fat injection of "interesting" I think this would be a great way to do exactly that, especially because it already builds on a strength of the game, with is tweaking/customizing builds.
  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    You know, the past few days I started thinking about this and asking myself, "Why hasn't the Foundry been added?" Now, we've been fed several excuses, such as none of the art assets have been properly tagged, to resources needed to do it, and so forth and so on. Frankly, this late in the game, I don't buy it. I think the real reason is a much simpler one since we've been told that Foundry is ready for Champions, just that Champions is not ready for the Foundry.

    So, my thoughts started turning and asking the question, what would people actually create with the Foundry and the actual answer started making me think, maybe there is a deeper embedded reason to why than something that an intern could probably fix in a few months time, several years ago.

    So what am I getting at? Well simply ask yourself how many of you would actually create legitimate Champions stories or content for Champions and not try to recreate something else in the media? let's make no mistake, Champions still has cloning problems, and how many of them would try to recreate DC or Marvel content, but how many of our refuge crowd or even active members would sit back and try to recreate City of Heroes stuff through the Foundry? I bet the answer would actually be a startling quite a few people.

    Sadly as we have a bunch of people who still can't let go or accept the facts even if they are presented, I think it just boils down to one simple thing; Lawsuits. City of Heroes, as far as I am aware, has not reverted back to Cryptic's control, and as far as I am further aware, NCSoft still holds onto the IP in full.

    This leads back to November of 2004 when Marvel tried to sue Cryptic because players and of course their own employees were going into Champions and making duplicates of various Marvel properties there. The lawsuit lasted over a year and was settled out of court in December of 2005. And I don't think Cryptic wants to go through that again so have been reluctant because of that fact.

    So, I think it just boils down to the fact that the legalese of what many players would actually do has been causing a bit of gunshy towards adding the Foundry to Champions. It sucks, but it's a revelation I thought about when I realized how many people I've talked to alone would create stories based on their character just escaping from Paragon to Millennium City, alone.
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  • decorumfriends
    decorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    So you basically think they're lying because of a ten year old suit that was finally decided and as long as CO does its "due diligence" and removes offending characters and materials they're in no danger at all?

    Yeah, that's not a stretch at all. :wink:
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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    So you basically think they're lying because of a ten year old suit that was finally decided and as long as CO does its "due diligence" and removes offending characters and materials they're in no danger at all?

    Yeah, that's not a stretch at all. :wink:

    No, I think they are gunshy considering people will undoubtedly make not only Marvel and DC content, but also all the CoH people who can't give up the ghost who are going to try and recreate CoH content in the game. And since Cryptic does not own that IP anymore, and it has yet to revert. *shrugs* It's fine to be skeptical, even despite the fact they were raring to go with adding the Foundry then all the sudden got cold feet and kept saying it was technical issues.

    Today it might be true that they don't have the resources to convert, but all this time when it's a hotly desired feature and at least would get some pull of people into the game? Saying that might not have some measure of weight behind it, especially in the suit happy climate we live in, seems a bit naive to be honest.
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  • gandales
    gandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    No, I think they are gunshy considering people will undoubtedly make not only Marvel and DC content, but also all the CoH people who can't give up the ghost who are going to try and recreate CoH content in the game. And since Cryptic does not own that IP anymore, and it has yet to revert. *shrugs* It's fine to be skeptical, even despite the fact they were raring to go with adding the Foundry then all the sudden got cold feet and kept saying it was technical issues.

    Today it might be true that they don't have the resources to convert, but all this time when it's a hotly desired feature and at least would get some pull of people into the game? Saying that might not have some measure of weight behind it, especially in the suit happy climate we live in, seems a bit naive to be honest.

    So it would be the concern of STO foundry doing stuff similar to Star Wars o Neverwinter making scenarios based on ******** or elder scrolls universe.

    As far as I remember CoX mission architech never faced that issue at least in a significant quantity.

    If you claim was true they might as well shutdown the game entirely since clones has been significantly present in the game since launch
  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    gandales wrote: »
    So it would be the concern of STO foundry doing stuff similar to Star Wars o Neverwinter making scenarios based on ******** or elder scrolls universe.

    As far as I remember CoX mission architech never faced that issue at least in a significant quantity.

    If you claim was true they might as well shutdown the game entirely since clones has been significantly present in the game since launch

    It's a little harder to pull of Star Wars in Star Trek. Now you're reaching. The difference is night and day, because there you have two different mediums, one science fantasy versus soft science fiction, while here you have exactly the same medium; comic books. And Cryptic is required to police their stuff here, and as a result with the Foundry their workload is increased.

    Again, I never claimed it was anything other than a suspicion, so you're the one jumping to conclusions and reaching. And it does have precedent.
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  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1) This stuff, and other things like the "click here to farm free stuff with little to no risk" missions, does occur in both STO and NW.
    2. There is a legal precedent for knockoffs causing lawsuits.
    3. Reading is apparently hard. Just ask anyone in the Marvel/DC Knockoff SGs.
    5. Additional workload? The current workload on this(and other ingame violations) is barely upheld now.
    6. If missions of the above mentioned type become an issue then the fix is pretty simple. You just put in a "patch" that deals with the foundry and...oops, those kinds of missions got disconnected from the process and were accidently "lost." It happens in space all the time, especially with those aforementioned fish in a barrel farm missions. Heck, I haven't played NW in ages and I bet I could tell you(vaguely, I didn't memorize the names) which foundry missions I've done are still there and which ones were....oops).*
    7. The "F" word was misused on the previous page. :wink:




    *Clarification: I did test run a few farm-o-matic misions in the NW Foundry just to see if they were, IMO, exploits(they are) but never benefited from them because I didn't have a CW and most them required one. I did the same for STO but most missions like that I encountered were not exploits due to the system's actual restrictions and the mob not having their ability to fight back somehow stopped.
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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    You skipped 4

    Also your number 5 I am not so sure about. It's just too easy for people to change their names back and SGs can change their names back again and again and again.
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  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I think there is something to Cryptic's being gun shy with the Foundry. I also think they would just half a** it like everything else. Look at Hideouts, Nemesis and Vehicles as examples. The Foundry would be no different. It would be released with a handful of z-store items, then left to die. Most likely break in a few places or given half the options than expected and it would just piss people off.
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  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    1. I skipped 4....poo.
    2. I could write out a list to actually prove that point...and then get banned from the forums for doing so..see how that does/doesn't work? Just hit me up ingame sometime(when I'm not in some random state on assignment or am able to actually get the launcher to...launch) and I can more properly fill you in. Alternately, you could just stand in the Ren Center for about 30m or ask people on your friend's list. I'm not exactly talking about super secret information here. Actually, as hit and miss as Zonechat can be if you type a one word name in zonechat you can almost watch the horror stories and such pour in from people you don't even know. :eek:

    For me, it's purely something I pick up from past professional experience. I know, first hand, how not hard it is to be GM/CS in a much much much larger MMO than this one(or any of the three Cryptic Games....combined) so it's a bit of a pet peeve of mine. :cool:

    To paraphrase a popular saying....

    "The accumulated filth of all their exploits, illegal RP, and other violations will foam up about their waists and all the players will look up and shout, 'Save us!' And CS will reply,'Have you tried using the support page FAQs on your issue about accidentally picking up chairs all the time? Thank you for choosing Champions Online.' "
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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    bwdares wrote: »
    I think there is something to Cryptic's being gun shy with the Foundry. I also think they would just half a** it like everything else. Look at Hideouts, Nemesis and Vehicles as examples. The Foundry would be no different. It would be released with a handful of z-store items, then left to die. Most likely break in a few places or given half the options than expected and it would just piss people off.

    They never half-assed the hideouts they told us exactly how they would work. Nemesis has always worked as it always has nothing has changed there so I wouldn't call that half assing it either. And vehicles, that I wouldn't say was half-assed either considering the engine.
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  • sistersilicon
    sistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    You know, the past few days I started thinking about this and asking myself, "Why hasn't the Foundry been added?" Now, we've been fed several excuses, such as none of the art assets have been properly tagged, to resources needed to do it, and so forth and so on. Frankly, this late in the game, I don't buy it. I think the real reason is a much simpler one since we've been told that Foundry is ready for Champions, just that Champions is not ready for the Foundry.

    So, my thoughts started turning and asking the question, what would people actually create with the Foundry and the actual answer started making me think, maybe there is a deeper embedded reason to why than something that an intern could probably fix in a few months time, several years ago.

    So what am I getting at? Well simply ask yourself how many of you would actually create legitimate Champions stories or content for Champions and not try to recreate something else in the media? let's make no mistake, Champions still has cloning problems, and how many of them would try to recreate DC or Marvel content, but how many of our refuge crowd or even active members would sit back and try to recreate City of Heroes stuff through the Foundry? I bet the answer would actually be a startling quite a few people.

    Sadly as we have a bunch of people who still can't let go or accept the facts even if they are presented, I think it just boils down to one simple thing; Lawsuits. City of Heroes, as far as I am aware, has not reverted back to Cryptic's control, and as far as I am further aware, NCSoft still holds onto the IP in full.

    This leads back to November of 2004 when Marvel tried to sue Cryptic because players and of course their own employees were going into Champions and making duplicates of various Marvel properties there. The lawsuit lasted over a year and was settled out of court in December of 2005. And I don't think Cryptic wants to go through that again so have been reluctant because of that fact.

    So, I think it just boils down to the fact that the legalese of what many players would actually do has been causing a bit of gunshy towards adding the Foundry to Champions. It sucks, but it's a revelation I thought about when I realized how many people I've talked to alone would create stories based on their character just escaping from Paragon to Millennium City, alone.

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  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    They never half-assed the hideouts they told us exactly how they would work. Nemesis has always worked as it always has nothing has changed there so I wouldn't call that half assing it either. And vehicles, that I wouldn't say was half-assed either considering the engine.

    I disagree. Hidouts, the extra rooms sit there visable and some you can get into. Never completed, I call that half assed.

    Nemesis, have been broken several times, have not been updated since on alert, and thus are no longer that tough due to how powerful our characters get. Do not have access to weapon geos, and many of the newer powers and in some cases costumes. I call that half assed.

    Vechicles, I consider these reversed half assed to be honest because they "accidently" gave us the ability to customize the colors to fit our individual characters and took it away. So now we are stuck with what they give us. "Be the hero you want to be, unless he uses a vehicle." Less half assed than the others but I will still see it that way.
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  • championshewolf
    championshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    bwdares wrote: »
    I disagree. Hidouts, the extra rooms sit there visable and some you can get into. Never completed, I call that half assed.

    Nemesis, have been broken several times, have not been updated since on alert, and thus are no longer that tough due to how powerful our characters get. Do not have access to weapon geos, and many of the newer powers and in some cases costumes. I call that half assed.

    Vechicles, I consider these reversed half assed to be honest because they "accidently" gave us the ability to customize the colors to fit our individual characters and took it away. So now we are stuck with what they give us. "Be the hero you want to be, unless he uses a vehicle." Less half assed than the others but I will still see it that way.

    The extra rooms are visible, that doesn't mean they were half assed. This is not the mark of half-assed because something you want hasn't been activated for you. The hideouts work, adding the extra rooms now, would really do nothing for the game as a whole.

    Nemesis has worked fine for me this entire time and those claiming it's broken is typically the result of them missing something.

    And Vehicles, that one I could care less about and in fact I don't think they should have added vehicles personally. But money talks and that's what they will do. You may not like it but developing things takes money and time.
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  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    They never half-assed the hideouts they told us exactly how they would work. Nemesis has always worked as it always has nothing has changed there so I wouldn't call that half assing it either. And vehicles, that I wouldn't say was half-assed either considering the engine.

    Actually...

    1. Hideouts were never completed, supposed to be an ongoing thing, and kinda never went beyond the 1st few pushes.
    2. Nemesis has been broken on and off over the years in many on and off again things. Not to mention it's one of the three main pillars of the original pitch to this game. Customization(Make the hero you want to make), Creation(powers, be the hero you want to be), and The Nemesis System(Make your own unique villain and thwart their nefarious plans).
    3. Vehicles, originally requested(multiple times) as basically a travel power but the attempt was made to make them more like a weaker starship...and then they couldn't be on the ground...and then the aesthetics on the majority of them look like they were made for a different game an accidently washed up on our shores while vehicles which would look the part are mysteriously absent. Then they were "Please Roll Face on Keyboard Here" OP. Then they tried to fix that but, mostly, 2 people flooded the PTS threads with so much BS that actual data was buried. Then they had to re-re-fix them again..which then one of those people lead some internet jihad "bait and switch" fiasco in an attempt to get the game shut down <looks around> which obviously didn't work.

    If you look over the history of CO and it's old dev teams(up until about Team Lordgar and Cryptic North with the current incarnation still in the "it's too soon to tell" grace period) then Cryptic has kind of alway suffered from a classic Kid in a Candy Story Syndrome where they would drop the current thing for the next her hotness. It has always been my opinion that the core of CO has never been properly fleshed out and developed. While monetization in a F2P Model is an important factor for profitability...it is not the only factor. A solid, well polished, fleshed out core game with fully(or at this point moreso than we currently have) realized unique aspects will also pull in players and provide them with enough piece of mind to consider actual financial investments. Yeah, Vets buy(or bought until Mad Scientist and Variable Robot came along...again, time will tell there) costumes to play dress up and be as pretty as we can be....but newbies are the lifeblood of MMOs and, in such, you want their initial impressions/experiences to be as perfect as is humanly possible. Vets know stuff is broken and are happy when it's fixed. Newbies tend to be less forgiving since they have no real investment(financial and/or time) to keep them here.


    Edit(stuff happened):
    Spar wrote:
    Nemesis has worked fine for me this entire time and those claiming it's broken is typically the result of them missing something.
    Basic stuff here...
    1. When was the last time you put away a nemesis?
    2. When was the last time you made a new nemesis?
    3. When was the last time you made a NEW Nemesis(the 1st one) on a NEW Toon?

    I do not think it's that others are missing something.....
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  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I can't make an Iron Man costume.


    How hard would Cryptic get sued if I made a Foundry mission that mirrors the events of the Avengers movie and they didn't destroy it before somebody saw it.



    Also, Club Caprice, the foundry mission.



    Also, Cryptic losing legions of players because they played the mission I made which was "too hard" and they blame the devs instead of me.
  • lucasjackson
    lucasjackson Posts: 106 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I can't make an Iron Man costume.


    How hard would Cryptic get sued if I made a Foundry mission that mirrors the events of the Avengers movie and they didn't destroy it before somebody saw it.

    Well I don't think they've gotten sued yet by someone remaking Age of Ultron with screenshots in Fan Base Alpha yet so you're probably good with a foundry mission
  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Well I don't think they've gotten sued yet by someone remaking Age of Ultron with screenshots in Fan Base Alpha yet so you're probably good with a foundry mission

    is Fan Base Alpha a part of the actual game? I don't think pics are an issue, since they're just pics of stuff in the game. There was that whole issue with people making Iron Man in game tho that is the reason anyone doing so now gets defaulted... If I make an Iron Man costume in the editor and take a pic of it, there's nothing Cryptic could reasonably do to stop me from doing that, ya know? On the other hand, if I use their foundry to make playable content that, say, exactly replicates a mission chain from DCUO, including their copyrighted characters....
  • bwdares
    bwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    crosschan wrote: »
    Actually...

    1. Hideouts were never completed, supposed to be an ongoing thing, and kinda never went beyond the 1st few pushes.
    2. Nemesis has been broken on and off over the years in many on and off again things. Not to mention it's one of the three main pillars of the original pitch to this game. Customization(Make the hero you want to make), Creation(powers, be the hero you want to be), and The Nemesis System(Make your own unique villain and thwart their nefarious plans).
    3. Vehicles, originally requested(multiple times) as basically a travel power but the attempt was made to make them more like a weaker starship...and then they couldn't be on the ground...and then the aesthetics on the majority of them look like they were made for a different game an accidently washed up on our shores while vehicles which would look the part are mysteriously absent. Then they were "Please Roll Face on Keyboard Here" OP. Then they tried to fix that but, mostly, 2 people flooded the PTS threads with so much BS that actual data was buried. Then they had to re-re-fix them again..which then one of those people lead some internet jihad "bait and switch" fiasco in an attempt to get the game shut down <looks around> which obviously didn't work.

    If you look over the history of CO and it's old dev teams(up until about Team Lordgar and Cryptic North with the current incarnation still in the "it's too soon to tell" grace period) then Cryptic has kind of alway suffered from a classic Kid in a Candy Story Syndrome where they would drop the current thing for the next her hotness. It has always been my opinion that the core of CO has never been properly fleshed out and developed. While monetization in a F2P Model is an important factor for profitability...it is not the only factor. A solid, well polished, fleshed out core game with fully(or at this point moreso than we currently have) realized unique aspects will also pull in players and provide them with enough piece of mind to consider actual financial investments. Yeah, Vets buy(or bought until Mad Scientist and Variable Robot came along...again, time will tell there) costumes to play dress up and be as pretty as we can be....but newbies are the lifeblood of MMOs and, in such, you want their initial impressions/experiences to be as perfect as is humanly possible. Vets know stuff is broken and are happy when it's fixed. Newbies tend to be less forgiving since they have no real investment(financial and/or time) to keep them here.


    Edit(stuff happened):


    Basic stuff here...
    1. When was the last time you put away a nemesis?
    2. When was the last time you made a new nemesis?
    3. When was the last time you made a NEW Nemesis(the 1st one) on a NEW Toon?

    I do not think it's that others are missing something.....

    Yep.




    .
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • crypticarmsman
    crypticarmsman Posts: 53 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Again, don't care. If they are committed to Champions then they need to be committed. Champions needs a lot more than just simple tutorial work if they really, truly are wanting to actually get the interest of people getting in on the superhero media hype. Otherwise, again, it's just words saying they are committed, and just more dust in the wind people will use as a reminder of these promises of commitment that panned no where.

    I think you can see for yourself (based on the frequency and type of updates CO receives) just how 'committed' Cryptic/PWE are to CO many people on this thread have provided concrete post from Cryptic personnel as to why CO is getting what it gets; but you either don't want to believe it - or think that they should just throw more development money at the game because they made it.

    Cryptic/PWE is a business. In business it's all about profit margins and return on investment. Cryptic is as 'committed' to CO as it's ROI allows. It's been that way for many years; and I don't see them changing their ROI business model just because. It really is unfortunate because there is a lot of potential in CO - BUT, Cryptic/PWE management no longer believe that investing beyond the model for CO will net a better ROI for the game down the road.
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  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    If you're driving your truck along, and people are dumping a cup of gas into the tank at intervals just short enough that you can keep going, the last thing you want to do is ram your foot down on the accelerator. If people don't start dumping more gas in, then all you did was go faster for a short bit before you ran out of gas.

    The game is self-sustaining. There is no reasonable expectation that the game will see any sort of swell of interest. There is no reasonable expectation that a bunch of development would cause a swell of interest. Some people may have a "I don't care if it kills the game, I want content!" attitude, but luckily the folks at CO actually are committed to keeping this game afloat which is why they're not going to ram their foot down on that gas pedal; they're going to keep it going nice and steady, so it keeps going for a nice long time.

    We should spend more time being grateful for what they do, rather than complaining about what we think they should be doing, because reasonably there's no reason for them to even do as much as they are. They could stop all development and nothing would change - since whatever development they do only ends up only paying for itself, then no development would net them the same level of profit. They're literally just doing it to throw us long-timers a bone, and most people reward them by whining about how they don't care and aren't doing enough and threatening to quit the game over a minor bug and constantly trying to give the game a negative-as-possible image with repeated posts about how terrible and bad everything is.

    Also, why isn't this in the suggestions forum?
  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I like Spinny's post....so let's play with that for a momment.

    1. If I saved up some cash and refitted my truck to be able to handle larger payloads then I could get a larger variety of jobs hauling stuff. Sure, it's a risk...but it's also an investment. Also, I could get my own set of truck decals(maybe paint that on the trailer too) and such to advertise my services when I was using that truck. Maybe put out an ad or two in some free publications, make some flyers, and/or use that internet thing.

    2. We've also tried the no additions bit for a while. It had something to do with some dungeons and a dragon. I dunno, it was pretty horrible but we got over it eventually. This, IMO, is just the combination of a series of unhappy accidents, a lack of communication, and a direction that the new team may have all figured out but they're not exactly forthcoming on the details so that uncertainty does kinda lead to concern. Now concern is ok but when it gets all ragey, insulting, and name-calling...yes, those people just look stupid. Those people should likely check out this link right here.

    3. I actually am grateful for what has been done for the most part. I mean, it's in this game I play(when not on the road as of recent...too much). I like that game. I do play it. I pay to be able to play it. If I did not like it...I would stop paying for it and, in turn, stop playing it. I play this game because I have ideas that I like to bring to life. So long as I have those ideas and enjoy them then I shall continue to play. When the ideas die...so too, likely, will my interest/desire to play. It's that simple for me and I would suspect it's that simple for others as well.

    4. I try not to make it a habit to pay money to people for "favors" or to be "thrown a bone." That kinda defeats the point of "favors" and sounds more like "services"....or "bribes" and if I'm going to bribe people to get stuff in this game it's going to be a ton more Me-centric. :biggrin:

    5. As for the bit about the Suggestion Forums...well, the past has shown alot of vets that The Suggestion Forums tend to be where ideas(and the conversations about them) go to die. I just made a post like 10m ago about how I believe, unless mistaken, the last idea that came from The Suggestion Forums was The Earth Powerset(And a year later, it's passive). At least the conversation here is, IMO, more lively and interesting. :wink:
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  • decorumfriends
    decorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    spinnytop thinks it's some kind of immediate response:

    How hard would Cryptic get sued if I made a Foundry mission that mirrors the events of the Avengers movie and they didn't destroy it before somebody saw it.

    Zero. All they have to do is remove the offending material upon complaint, not "before somebody saw it".

    This stuff was all laid out in the CoX suit. I'm going to guess that "people will make copyrighted and trademarked material" affects their decisions on the Foundry exactly zero, as well. I don't see why such a thought is even needed. The stuff they've told us are perfectly reasonable reasons (especially the "This is Cryptic. No one tagged anything!" part)
    'Dec out

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  • codewar65
    codewar65 Posts: 134 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    The game is self-sustaining. There is no reasonable expectation that the game will see any sort of swell of interest. There is no reasonable expectation that a bunch of development would cause a swell of interest. Some people may have a "I don't care if it kills the game, I want content!" attitude, but luckily the folks at CO actually are committed to keeping this game afloat which is why they're not going to ram their foot down on that gas pedal; they're going to keep it

    Agreed.

    Catch 22. People don't play because there is no new development. No new development because there are not enough players supporting the game. Something needs to give to make one of the two happen.
  • flyingfinn
    flyingfinn Posts: 8,382 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    codewar65 wrote: »
    Agreed.

    Catch 22. People don't play because there is no new development. No new development because there are not enough players supporting the game. Something needs to give to make one of the two happen.


    PW takes a Leap of Faith and throws some Real Monee to Cryptic's CO Team.
    Only thing that has a chance of working.
    Because, do people really think that suddenly, Out of Nowhere CO gets a Tidalwave of New People to play CO and spend Real Monee on it? And Things get Better?
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  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    crosschan wrote: »
    I like Spinny's post....so let's play with that for a momment.

    1. You went a bit too deep with the truck metaphor. CO is not actually a truck. Because you went to deep, it's hard to relate anything you said to the game. Advertising CO is like advertising WindowsXP... the video game world is moving forward, and for all its customization CO isn't noteworthy anymore. Yes, we look at it through nostalgia goggles and see this shining brick of pure gold... but ultimately we'd be advertising a block of wood.

    2. Yeah, we had a no new stuff thing for a while... then we got new stuff for a bit... and we're still getting new stuff, but the game isn't growing in population or raking in dough any more than it was while there was no new stuff. In fact, the game may be even less active than it was during that period.

    3. Neat. Don't know what part of my post this is commenting on.. I never said you had to play the game after you lost interest... in fact I've commonly stated the opposite; it's fine if you lose interest in a game and stop playing it. CO isn't as important as some people make it out to be, it's just another video game.

    4. They're not expecting you to pay them to "throw you a bone". They're throwing you the bone for free. When you pay, you get what you paid for, i.e. the exact thing you clicked on in the cash shop, or the exact benefits of the subscription. If you stopped paying and never paid for anything ever again, they would still throw the bones, and you would have the same access to those bones that everyone else does. So don't worry, your habits are safe and secure and completely unaffected and in fact are supported by the staff.

    5. You should post a post in the suggestion forum that tells everyone to post their suggestions in this section instead then, if you really believe that ;)
  • joltrabbit
    joltrabbit Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    At this point I feel like trying to come up with ways Champions Online can make PWE money in order to validate new content. Anything else I want is moot versus that.

    Feel free to shoot me for saying this: There have been two major ways to make money in gaming of late.

    1. Go F2P
    2. Go Mobile

    The second wouldn't happen in it's present form and it's not big enough of a name to survive if it did. We could see an offline mode much like Neverwinter but without a revenue stream there's no point.

    We are supported by lockboxes (or I'm told we are). I went life time during early launch ($250 for the game and LTS fee) and haven't spent a dime more since. At this point I feel equal parts being owned and evil. I'm just now feeling like I'm breaking even and I have yet to give PWE a cent (Which feels a bit sad as they saved us from going down with Atari).

    A Foundry system is badly needed but I've heard it will cause massive, game-wide issues to the code of the game. Do I know anything about coding? Heck no. It's just a wish that I'll never see come to life. I just know with money and bodies we would have it already and we're not making the money to do it.

    I'm open to ideas. We need cash and interest. And unlike Marvel Heroes, we can't charge insane amounts of cash for new hero skins. Can you imagine someone paying $49.99 for Defender with all his powers free of endurance use?


    @Rejolt when you see me in game. Forum member since late 2008, beta tester and LTS.

    Still trying to make a Might/Electric toon that gets something out of Shockwave (darn you Stormbringer for not boosting Sonic damage!).
  • xmyuikix
    xmyuikix Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »

    Also, Cryptic losing legions of players because they played the mission I made which was "too hard" and they blame the devs instead of me.

    You heard it here first people! It's all Spinny's fault! :biggrin:
  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Spinny:
    1. Sorry if I went too far. I just liked the metaphor....but Steel Crusade did bring back a noticable amount of my friends who used to play. The problem, from my observations, was it looked like the 1st hit in a 1-2 combo...and 2 never really materialized.

    2. Actually, IMO, the population should go up(even if it's slight) about this time of year and right around Thanksgiving due to school/college breaks and such. The ideal plan, IMO, would be to focus on having something(like an event and/or content injections) focused at this periods.

    3. It was more in response to the "We should take more time to be grateful for what they do" bit but then clarifying with my personal opinions and such on what keeps me here. Sorry if I droned on a bit too much there.

    4. I was just basically saying that I pay for this product and have certain comparitive basic expectations(which you are right to point out are beyond the basic "you pay, you play, the end" expectations). This is, after all, a MMO. Therefore by it's very nature there is a certain base expectation for progression(in content and storyline) and overall growth. Now I may very well be completely in the wrong to ask for such things....but that's not really going to stop me from asking. It's a MMO. I will simply enjoy what I enjoy and ask for more on the oft chance it shows up.

    5. Look around, I don't need to make such a post. More than a few people have apparently figured that out. If I did actually make such a thread then I would likely have a bunch of people chime in "thanking me" for giving them "permission" to use the forums or some other such blah blah blah.
    Jolt wrote:
    Can you imagine someone paying $49.99 for Defender with all his powers free of endurance use?

    They were called vehicles. It wasn't pretty and when it was fixed....the response was even less pretty.

    __________________________________________________________________________

    Ok, so here's my current thought/questions. CO makes more than enough money to pay the low low server bills and it has a dev team. Portions, not all, of that dev team make costume sets for lockboxes, the Z-Store, The Gold Vendor, and occasionally from time to time the actual game via events and such. So this means we have, believe it or not, "extra devs", in theory(How many is unknown, of course). The overall message seems to be that everything needs to have at least some kind thought towards monetization. It's a business, it's a product, and there should be profits. Ok, so....

    -Does the improvement of the overall core game itself, therefore providing a more solid, stable, and less ugly experience for the new player in hopes they remain and drop some cash in the game play a noticable priority in the game? I mean, they are re-re-re-doing the tutorial for this very reason, right?

    -Does this improvement expand to what many, like myself, would consider the "Basics of MMOs" like bug repairs, less SNRs, and baseline balancing?

    -Is there any point in the equation where this expands to actual reinforcement of the 3 Core Pillars like Creation(Tailor/Creation), Powers(Additions, Balancing), and The Nemesis System(Missions, Repairs, Features)?

    -So, with all that stuff above, does actual new playable repeatable enjoyable CONTENT have any place in CO?

    I know when I am asked what I would ideally want out of CO my usual answer is(after the basics like Bug Repair and Balance)...
    -Champions Online Season 2: This Space(Pun Intended) Reserved for Snazzy Title.
    -Alternate Advancement System(No LvL Cap Increases) tied into above point.
    -Repeat Above 1-2 times per year(more would be better but this is just my baseline).

    So, as someone who believes in the Vicious Circle of "More Players to get More Content" vs. "More Content to get More Players" and sides, firmly, in the latter side of the debate....will they ever actually take the plunge and invest? It looked, for a moment, like that was the purpose of CN...but now they're gone. So....???

    -Lastly, if I'm just being foolish and the answer to all of this is basically, "No, take what you have and make the most of it," then what is the actual purpose of the "extra devs"? I would suspect it's a touch more than picking up the drycleaning and lunch for the costume devs(a la Caliburn-Style). :wink:
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  • joltrabbit
    joltrabbit Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Lord, I missed much of the vehicle crazy during my years absence from CO so I can't comment on that, CC. I just know that a vehicle is not a hero so it's not quite the same.

    Imagine a pre-made, awesome 40 with everything shy of Justice Gear with Mod 9s for 50 bucks (players have to have something to do!). That's basically what other games are selling.

    As for enjoy what we have: If we had a re-worked reward system so all existing PvE content was worthwhile to play I'd do it all again on a new toon and ignore Alerts.


    @Rejolt when you see me in game. Forum member since late 2008, beta tester and LTS.

    Still trying to make a Might/Electric toon that gets something out of Shockwave (darn you Stormbringer for not boosting Sonic damage!).
  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    joltrabbit wrote: »
    Lord, I missed much of the vehicle crazy during my years absence from CO so I can't comment on that, CC. I just know that a vehicle is not a hero so it's not quite the same.
    Pretty much.
    Imagine a pre-made, awesome 40 with everything shy of Justice Gear with Mod 9s for 50 bucks (players have to have something to do!). That's basically what other games are selling.

    IMO, that could potentially be more damaging becuase the "P2Win" community would rage and...you just paid for a LvL 40 so you can....what exactly? Now maybe a "leg up" toon that's LvL 20 with a set of heirloom? Also, could you imagine the rage of players who got Heroics with R9 Mods and still ended up getting 1-shot by everything because they never actually learned how to play in the 1st place?
    As for enjoy what we have: If we had a re-worked reward system so all existing PvE content was worthwhile to play I'd do it all again on a new toon and ignore Alerts.

    Like, I dunno, putting all the unlocks lost from On Alert(and the Legacy Devices) back into the game where they belong with the addition of some new unlocks(See: Old Stuff Rotting in Live Files for Years) injected into the end bits on mission arcs to further encourage players(new and old alike) to go out into the world and run missions? Something like that? :biggrin:
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  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    crosschan wrote: »
    -So, with all that stuff above, does actual new playable repeatable enjoyable CONTENT have any place in CO?

    I think so, yeah. The problem is, they've kind of missed the pitch on the "repeatable" part. The enjoyable part never really came into play due to that, but I also feel like they missed the pitch there.

    Steel Crusade was neat, and it looked cool, and it certainly tried to be repeatable content, but it fell short.

    1. While the costume pieces were good, and something that makes 100% sense to repeat in the future (with more variety), there could have been a few more things on that vendor to really make people want to keep going to these missions, and more importantly to make people who aren't into robot costumes want to keep going there... it's been said time and time again, temporary devices. Devices that do cool useful things; instead of a certain number of charges, give them a time limit after which they disappear. It's really common sense - people like cool powers, make content that allows them to farm extra temporary cool powers. Also mod boxes... boxes that give a few random mods... everybody loves mods right? It's moooood mooood it's better than bad it's good...


    2. Steel Crusade looked cool, but it wasn't particularly engaging... just another "run down the hallway and pop the HP balloons" adventure. If there's anything I've learned from playing [Loli-MMO] it's that content doesn't need to be looooooooong to be engaging or satisfying. In fact, long unengaging content is deadly, deadly poison. In that other MMO they've largely cut out the "trash mobs" and dungeons are now just a series of of fun, exciting boss fights. They don't take as long, but the time they do take is filled with excitement and action, without any of the "let's get this part over with" parts. I honestly believe that if they had cut out all the "hallways of pathetic enemies" parts of Steel Crusade, and just given us a shorter version where all the parts were as engaging and fleshed out as the final boss fight (the instanced one) it would have been a much bigger hit.

    Yes I know, there are legions upon legions of people who immediately cry out "But we LIKE the hallways of pathetic enemies! We want to feel like gods!"... well congrats, there's already butt loads of content to fulfill that need and they don't need to spend a single 'nother second on producing more.


    I think that new, repeatable, content does have a place in the CO plan... but if they're going to spend their time on it, then make the result worth the time spent. If all they can produce is reskinned content that people will do once and then be bored of, it's just not worth it; I'd rather they put that time into costume sets that people will actually use over and over again and get continuing enjoyment out of.
  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    joltrabbit wrote: »
    Imagine a pre-made, awesome 40 with everything shy of Justice Gear with Mod 9s for 50 bucks (players have to have something to do!). That's basically what other games are selling.

    A pre-made freeform? Well, that just took 90% of the fun of a freeform character and removed it... would I at least get a free retcon?

    Also, unfortunately, CO's endgame grind isn't particularly satisfying due to some odd choices....like tiny crafting requirements with insanely low drop rates.... and upgrades that became less and less exciting as they grow...


    If I buy a level 60 in [Loli-MMO] it thrusts me right into the most exciting and fun part of the game (because those devs understand interest curves and make the game more interesting the further you get) where this grand spectacle of end-game progression opens up for me, with all sorts of things I can do to make meaningful gains! In CO the most common response I've heard from players freshly hitting max level is "...so what I do now? ....wait really?"


    I think it would make more sense to give players a discount on buying another character slot each time they hit level 40 xD
  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Actually, I could sometimes be one of those "hallway trash liker peoples" I guess but, at the same time, what you propose would be a form of variety and would provide game diversity so....

    /signed :biggrin:

    P.S. I like how Steel Crusade's unlocks were themed and suspect that had CN gotten to do more than that then we may very well have seen a different theme there as well...but that never quite happened and I, personally, only run Steel Crusade when either a friend returns to this game so I can "show em the ropes" or when a doomy says there's nothing new ever ever so I show them Steel Crusade...and sometimes, if they're nice enough, tag along. I do get what you're saying though because I actually have no need to run Steel Crusade because I have all of it's pretties.


    Also, just because we're on the subject of Steel Crusade, I do not feel it's flawless either.

    1. The Sewer Map, when combined with a team and certain powers, can slideshow grind the entire map to a halt...and that's if you're lucky.
    2. Mechanon has a boss room with boss room mechanics but don't worry about those...he's going to knock-pin you into a wall where, if you're lucky, you can spin the camera to see. if you cannot see that's not an issue either....just keep hitting attack buttons and he'll fall eventually. It's just that the whole fight seems like it was built to contradict itself and defeat it's own mechanics. IMO, Mechanon loses all knocks except Chest Beam which brings the boss room more into play as a potential threat.

    3(this is the biggie). I have heard multiple guesstimations, explanations, and speculations on this one but, from my casual uneducated observations, it appears that the System CO uses for cutscenes decays over time. This appears to affect every single cutscene in the game from NPCs who forget how to walk(so they just hover-drag across the ground) to voice bits that explain somewhat important mechanics in the middle of a boss fight not working(Socrates in Cybermind's fight)...I believe if you looked at all the cutscenes in the game you would see more broken than functional and it appears to get worse as time goes on.
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    Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
  • spinnytop
    spinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    crosschan wrote: »
    /signed :biggrin:

    1. That sounds great! Kind of glad I never ran that part in a team.


    2. Yeah, the fight was a bit messy; you can tell they didn't have much time to polish it. What I really like about it is that it's a stage where powers and environment actually interact with one another... off the top of my head I can't think of any other encounter in the game where that happens, and it's one of the things I wish they would explore some more. On the other hand, I never experienced the "mashed against a wall" issue any of the times I fought him, and no, only one of my characters has high strength and that one never ran that dungeon.


    3. Everyone hates cutscenes anyway, get rid of em! They should start doing that thing that everybody loves where the game does all the cutscene stuff while you can still control your character.
  • crosschan
    crosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    3. Everyone hates cutscenes anyway, get rid of em! They should start doing that thing that everybody loves where the game does all the cutscene stuff while you can still control your character.

    Agreed, or at least....
    1. Allow for ALL cutscenes to be skipable and just do the "You stand there and chat while you wait on things to either set up and/or that one person who hadn't seen the cutscene yet to watch it"...like STO has.
    2. Fix the bug that was introduced with Whiteout Part 2(it was originally introduced in parts and not all at once. it was combined into one thing after all parts were released) where if you are using the mouse buttons to move and look around it will lock the mouse in the middle of your screen during cutscenes(even if you alt+tab out to another window/monitor).
    3. Fix the cutscene decay issue mentioned above.


    There have been devs in the past that said the cutscenes in CO were more like scene setting in a play where it's basically distracting you while they put everyone in place or get everyone in place via the actions in the cutscene(which is likely why Ice Slide is the single most dagerous travel power in the game because it can move you into those cutscenes with no control...to get mauled) so I am not entirely certain how "fixable" this thing is but, IMO, the bugs could be fixed at the very least because...well...they're bugs.
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    Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer