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Basic Change to increase player-base.

xanadooamixanadooami Posts: 1 Arc User
edited June 2015 in Suggestions Box
This game needs 2 primary things. Comic-Book Outlining disabled by default (The game looks so much better graphically with it off), and some advertising. This is a truly great MMO that many are missing out on.
Post edited by xanadooami on

Comments

  • championshewolfchampionshewolf Posts: 4,375 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    xanadooami wrote: »
    This game needs 2 primary things. Comic-Book Outlining disabled by default (The game looks so much better graphically with it off), and some advertising. This is a truly great MMO that many are missing out on.

    Some like the comic book outlining and it was how it was designed based on that.
    Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
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  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I am one of those who like the comic book outlines. It does succeed in visually conveying a comic book feel. I'm not saying I want it in all my games, I just think it fits CO very well.
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Comic book outlines look like absolute garbage, as do damage spam numbers and automatic labeling of every enemy.

    The default camera controls are also crap.
    Basically whoever set up the defaults in 2009 jerked the game over big time.
    Was that Bill Roper?
    .
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    xanadooami wrote: »
    This game needs 2 primary things. Comic-Book Outlining disabled by default (The game looks so much better graphically with it off), and some advertising. This is a truly great MMO that many are missing out on.

    I disagree, comic book outlining looks awesome and gives this game some really good defining visual identity.


    Also, feel free to pay for the advertising campaign.
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    It has an "on/off" switch already. That's good enough and keeps both opinions happy.
    'Dec out

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  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I can wipe dog crap off my shoe but I'd rather not step in it in the first place.

    Cartoon Outline is crap.

    In fact we need some protest sign auras and one of them should say that.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I can wipe dog crap off my shoe but I'd rather not step in it in the first place.

    Cartoon Outline is crap.

    In fact we need some protest sign auras and one of them should say that.

    Cartoon Outline is awesome.
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Some people like the outline and some people do not, I personally don't care for it so I turned it off...that is why we have options and it took me all of 2 minutes fiddling with my graphics settings to figure it out. I get the impression that many people never poke around the UI to figure out what does what anymore so they blame the game when actually it is just an issue of impatience or laziness. Excessive handholding isn't necessary...if you're capable of starting up your computer and launching CO you should be able to figure it out.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The default shouldn't be ugly mode. If people want to make their game ugly they can spend the time to figure out how to turn the ugly on.

    Comic book outline exists because comic books were printed on the cheapest pulp paper available, and the inks bleed, black outlines define the area and trap the color as it is printed last and overprints the bleed of other colors.

    We are not printing anything in CO, the reason for comic book outline in CO is some one who doesn't play the game anymore, probably works for another game company, chose that as a default, because they thought it looked good and the game flopped in its first year, perhaps as a result of how ugly it was, (maybe it was something else, like no content.)

    The other hero games, with many more players, doesn't have ugly mode by default.
    Maybe that's their big secret to success, Cryptic will never know unless they try turning off the ugly mode.
    Oh wait, their other more succesful games don't have ugly mode by default, and they have thousands of players compared to CO's hundreds.

    There was a study a few years back, by NVIDIA I think, that found that over 85% of game players never adjust the video settings of the games they play. I know I didn't monkey with any preferences for probably a month into playing and when I found I could turn off comic book outline, I was pleased pink.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Ugly is subjective. I for one do not find the outlines ugly. Let it remain as an option to turn on or off.
    100% of the world is crazy, 95% are in denial.

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  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I hate the COLORING BOOK outlining, too, but it's a signature Champions Online thing, so I don't think you'll ever convince them to take it off of default.
    'Dec out

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  • flyingfinnflyingfinn Posts: 8,399 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Best ideas ever.
    CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
    And playing by myself since Aug 2009
    Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
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  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I prefer the Comic Book outline off, you get yourself a Targeting reticule then outline when targeting someone, you can turn it on/off in Options.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    The default shouldn't be ugly mode.

    The default shouldn't be boring mode. Cartoon Outline looks awesome.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Yeah, sure. Making the comic outline disabled by default is the secret weapon to CO suddenly getting a huge wave of players as if by magic, just because some of PW's other games don't have that graphical setting. Remarkable logic.
  • doomedluke1doomedluke1 Posts: 115 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    "Ugly" sometimes can be very subjective. Some like the outlines, some don't. It's an aesthetic choice, and repeating the word "ugly" a dozen times in a post won't convince those who like it that it's really ugly.

    I like the outline and sometimes only disable it to improve the performance. But when I do that, I get the impression there's something missing in the game and they don't look THAT great.

    A few games have this kind of feature and it's characteristic of this games, like CO and Borderlands. Those who only care for perfect, photo-realistic graphics will always complain, but then I think they're kinda playing the wrong game.

    On the other hand though, it might not be a bad idea to show in the tutorial how to disable it, since there's a lot of comments in CO videos in YT, for example, saying they left the game because of "cel-shading" (even though this is NOT cel-shading).
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    On the other hand though, it might not be a bad idea to show in the tutorial how to disable it, since there's a lot of comments in CO videos in YT, for example, saying they left the game because of "cel-shading" (even though this is NOT cel-shading).

    I'll bet you won't find any comments on any other game that players left because it lacked comic book outline.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I'd use Comic outlining if it didn't wreck my tech. And didn't look like something slapped together in Second Life.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Yeah, sure. Making the comic outline disabled by default is the secret weapon to CO suddenly getting a huge wave of players as if by magic, just because some of PW's other games don't have that graphical setting. Remarkable logic.

    You can't fathom that they won't just log out forever at level 1 and 2 like they do, instead you jump to the conclusion that thousands of players are going to log in for the first time simply because the ugliness has been turned off. Where's your logic?

    We've already lost thousands of players at level 1 and 2.
    That's why there's a new tutorial, but if the default video is still hideous nasty comic book outline, I'm sure the graphics are going to turn people away, like it has in the past and all the development effort of a new tutorial will be wasted again.

    The outline actually diminishes the 3D effect by making everything look like a poorly masked sprite.

    This conversation has happened before.

    Some 500,000 players have come and gone since then. Outline was here, now make it disappea like all those players have!

    Note, the game trailer does not sell this low resolution crayon outline trash, it sells nice clean 3D.
  • auldwolfauldwolf Posts: 103 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    If you read MMO sites, everyone knows about Champions Online. The problem isn't the awareness, it's more the awareness of it being a grindy, messy, restrictive, unfun game that no one in their right mind wants to play any more. It's what I keep seeing on sites like Massively. I have tried to convince Cryptic to look outside their forum echo chamber. Read articles about their game elsewhere. The fact is -- no one likes what CO has become.

    Everyone loved it in open beta, everyone hated the day one patch, everyone hated the ham-fisted nerfs it's taken since. Everyone hates how it's grindy, restrictive, and focused around number creep, a high stat ceiling, and end-game. Everyone hates how it discourages alts, creativity, and experimentation, forcing people into cookie cutter builds. Everyone hates how it's one, long, linear grind to the end, instead of having many zones to choose from along the journey. (Instead of working on this, they could've added, say, a London zone at level 15, or a Moon zone at level 25.) Everyone hates the new focus on restrictions, everyone hates how it's moved more towards being a traditional MMO with sepcialisations. Everyone hates that Cryptic is now so desperate that they have to rely on so many forms of lockboxes and alternate currency.

    And it's not like we didn't try to tell them who they should listen to. They went down this road of their own choice. They appealed to the 0.1~ per cent who were noisy enough for Cryptic to be sensitive to them. And more and more the forum became an echo chamber as people just gave up on CO. People outside of the forums will tell you, right now, what CO needs to do in order to be popular again. They all know of CO, they all also just hate what it is now. They've tried it, and it's horrible.

    What we need is a backflip to the glory days of the open beta -- a low stat ceiling, almost no restrictions, very little grind with easy to obtain upgrades, an allowance to create bizarre characters and have them workable (because min-maxers only make up for 0.1~ per cent of the game, as we now know for a fact), new zones along the levelling path, retooling content so that it doesn't have forced grouping, ignoring the end-game for now to allow for more zone choice along the journey (since the strength of CO is in alts, not end-game), and all balance focused around open beta where people truly felt powerful (with new content being added as it's retooled to fit that balance).

    That's what would get people back. For the tiny echo chamber, you could have a throwaway 'Pro Server' or something. And for the majority, you could do what I've suggested.

    We've all tried to tell Cryptic what would get their game going again.

    We have tried. From open beta to now, god we've tried.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    You can't fathom that they won't just log out forever at level 1 and 2 like they do, instead you jump to the conclusion that thousands of players are going to log in for the first time simply because the ugliness has been turned off. Where's your logic

    I see you're still terrible at detecting sarcasm.

    Nobody is able to fathom anything about whether or not just how big a deal the default comic outline is and exactly how many players it has caused to leave, and certainly not from a few comments from some random youtube videos.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I see you're still terrible at detecting sarcasm.
    No I don't stop to think, "this person is being a troll" every time I respond, I assume posters attempt to use some intelligence when posting, not instantly resorting to absurdity every time they open their mouth.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Nobody is able to fathom anything about whether or not just how big a deal the default comic outline is and exactly how many players it has caused to leave, and certainly not from a few comments from some random youtube videos.

    We don't need to know exactly or roughly how many players left because of comic book outline, all we need to know is comic book outline has been the default, and we've lost over two million players. Maybe there is a connection, maybe not. Got nothing to lose by turning that garbage off.

    Nobody will stop to say "Hey this 3D game doesn't look like a crappy sprite based 2D game with comic book outline! I'm disappointed!" and if they do, they can dig through the "Advanced" options and turn the crap back on.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    auldwolf wrote: »
    If you read MMO sites, everyone knows about Champions Online. The problem isn't the awareness, it's more the awareness of it being a grindy, messy, restrictive, unfun game that no one in their right mind wants to play any more. It's what I keep seeing on sites like Massively. I have tried to convince Cryptic to look outside their forum echo chamber. Read articles about their game elsewhere. The fact is -- no one likes what CO has become.

    Dear Werewolf Finds Dragon,

    Do you honestly think you are the only person who reads both the forums and MassivelyOP? Because this isn't what you're "seeing", it's what you're saying. Maybe next time, you'll at least test our intelligence a little bit, instead of insulting it by repeating the same talking points in the same language and claiming it's somebody else.

    Love,
    LegendOfVinnyT
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    We don't need to know exactly or roughly how many players left because of comic book outline, all we need to know is comic book outline has been the default, and we've lost over two million players.

    bart_simpson_correlation_causation.jpg
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    auldwolf wrote: »
    If you read MMO sites, everyone knows about Champions Online. The problem isn't the awareness, it's more the awareness of it being a grindy, messy, restrictive, unfun game that no one in their right mind wants to play any more. It's what I keep seeing on sites like Massively. I have tried to convince Cryptic to look outside their forum echo chamber. Read articles about their game elsewhere. The fact is -- no one likes what CO has become.

    Everyone loved it in open beta, everyone hated the day one patch, everyone hated the ham-fisted nerfs it's taken since. Everyone hates how it's grindy, restrictive, and focused around number creep, a high stat ceiling, and end-game. Everyone hates how it discourages alts, creativity, and experimentation, forcing people into cookie cutter builds. Everyone hates how it's one, long, linear grind to the end, instead of having many zones to choose from along the journey. (Instead of working on this, they could've added, say, a London zone at level 15, or a Moon zone at level 25.) Everyone hates the new focus on restrictions, everyone hates how it's moved more towards being a traditional MMO with sepcialisations. Everyone hates that Cryptic is now so desperate that they have to rely on so many forms of lockboxes and alternate currency.

    And it's not like we didn't try to tell them who they should listen to. They went down this road of their own choice. They appealed to the 0.1~ per cent who were noisy enough for Cryptic to be sensitive to them. And more and more the forum became an echo chamber as people just gave up on CO. People outside of the forums will tell you, right now, what CO needs to do in order to be popular again. They all know of CO, they all also just hate what it is now. They've tried it, and it's horrible.

    What we need is a backflip to the glory days of the open beta -- a low stat ceiling, almost no restrictions, very little grind with easy to obtain upgrades, an allowance to create bizarre characters and have them workable (because min-maxers only make up for 0.1~ per cent of the game, as we now know for a fact), new zones along the levelling path, retooling content so that it doesn't have forced grouping, ignoring the end-game for now to allow for more zone choice along the journey (since the strength of CO is in alts, not end-game), and all balance focused around open beta where people truly felt powerful (with new content being added as it's retooled to fit that balance).

    That's what would get people back. For the tiny echo chamber, you could have a throwaway 'Pro Server' or something. And for the majority, you could do what I've suggested.

    We've all tried to tell Cryptic what would get their game going again.

    We have tried. From open beta to now, god we've tried.

    I'm sorry but the language in this post is so wrong I almost pause to address it. Massively = Bitter CoXer Hate Tank when it comes to their comments. So you're essentially saying CO should ignore it's actual playerbase in favor of people who just want CoX2? Now if we take out the...

    -"Facts(Opinions)"
    -"Percentages(Made up)"
    -Nostalgia(Since we're stronger post On-Alert than Pre-Launch)
    -"We(You)"
    -"Everyone(You)"
    -"No One(You)"



    ...there's not much left here really. Honestly, if this game was less grind they would just give you Justice upon entering the Powerhouse at LvL 6....and then you could talk to the trainer to Auto-40. Please, in the future, when trying to make a post like this just use proper pronouns and state your opinion. Trying to speak for the masses when you weren't elected to speak for the masses is just a very easy way to be dismissed.

    Also, honestly, why are lockboxes such a big deal? Yeah, I don't care for them(because I am too unlucky with RNG to even bother) but I know other people who like and use them. I also have been, so far, able to quite easily keep up with all the things I would actually want from them. Also, I like the Loyalty Stamps because that's when I actually do buy and use keys...because my rewards are garanteed. Now I will freely admit that when you "lose" with a CO Lockbox it is my opinion that your loss is more terrible than if you were to lose with a STO/NW Lockbox but that's minor tweaking on the losing end really. It seems to be a common Anti-CO Talking Point to string up the lockboxes on some kind of pole as the Ultimate Evil. Seriously? Don't like? Don't Use. Not Necessary. Next.

    __________________________________________________________________________


    And on the subject of this whole "Great Comic Outlines Debate", let us pretend for a moment this is even on the radar of being a fraction of an issue...this is where the line in the sand is drawn? Not Playable Content? Not Bug Repairs? Not Balance? This...this is the Big Bad Thing? If this one thing were switched to not be the default we would be up to our necks in rejoicing newbies who wouldn't hit 40 and run out of things to do or lose interest? They would be entirely content to continue playing because that horrible outline isn't default and going into the game's options was just a step too far and an overall ludicrous demand? I understand the concept of aiming low but this, to me, seems like one of those issues so low that if this were a cartoon you would have popped out of the other side of the planet and gravity would reverse. This makes the 4th color preview option in the tailor/creator not working look like a planet destroying catastrophe by comparison. Trivializing this issue would be an upgrade IMO.

    __________________________________________________________________________
    We don't need to know exactly or roughly how many players left because of comic book outline, all we need to know is comic book outline has been the default, and we've lost over two million players.

    This is such a stretch, and I don't even know where it's trying to stretch to be honest, that it wouldn't make the US News....
    ...although I would admit I am jealous of Silicon's pic because I think it's funnier than my reply...curse you, Sillicon. :tongue:
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  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    crosschan wrote: »
    And on the subject of this whole "Great Comic Outlines Debate", let us pretend for a moment this is even on the radar of being a fraction of an issue...this is where the line in the sand is drawn? Not Playable Content? Not Bug Repairs? Not Balance? This...this is the Big Bad Thing?

    Yes. When I came to this game I thought it looked horrible, I downloaded City of Heroes because their advertising looked 1000% more super cool 3D than the flat cartoon characters Champions Online uses.
    But wow CoH looked absolutely terrible and it crashed the first time I met a new person, so I came back to Champions and complained about the crappy outline to someone who told me that I could turn it off. I've never turned it back on except to test my memory of how bad it looks.

    I didn't get around to bug repairs. I didn't know anything about balance. The only content I saw was the tutorial and I was already pretty disappointed, frustrated really. I couldn't chat in zone so I assumed I couldn't chat at all. The tasks in the tutorial weren't interesting hero stuff, I was collecting garbage, shooting stationary targets, making deliveries, b-o-r-i-n-g, the default controls were stiff, the damage spam was hideous, the sirens in the tutorial were irritating, the music is extremely repetitive and has nothing to do with the action taking place, and as mentioned before the comic book outline made my brand new computer look like it was running a Playstation from 1996.

    Yes, I'm one of those people who logged out in the tutorial.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    We don't need to know exactly or roughly how many players left because of comic book outline-

    Since you incessantly love to brag about how accurate you think your methods of population numbers analysis are, I'd say you need to know exactly how many before you assert that the comic outline is a probable and significant enough cause of players leaving.
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Next, that is an actually very interesting account of one player's introduction to CO and how it struck them in a nonpositive fashion due to various design choices. It also raises 3 points for me though.

    1. The two pics are subject to opinion but the CoX one does look kinda shopped...which makes me think of the outrage that came down upon Watch Dogs and Aliens: Colonial Marines. The CO one is just a cartoon though so it's not like it's exactly more honest to the game itself. Also, where on Earth did you even see CO Advertising since this has been a bit of a hot button debate topic for years now?

    2. The Comic Outlines were 6th on your list. Do you think if the control layout/sound/missions/chat(overall MMO-ness of a MMO really)/UI spam were better that you may not have even noticed some default graphical choice? Would a better initial gaming experience/introduction have just swept you up for "The ride" and excited you more?

    3. Someone did stop to tell you how to get rid of it. This, to me, is an example of why vets must realize that newbies are important and valuable to the future of MMOs....and that we should all be so helpful as this person who helped you.
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  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Since you incessantly love to brag about how accurate you think your methods of population numbers analysis are, I'd say you need to know exactly how many before you assert that the comic outline is a probable and significant enough cause of players leaving.

    No all I need to do is look at how many level 1 and 2 players in New Champions Super Groups leave the game permanently to determined that it must be something they experience as soon as they log in and try the game that drives them away. They download 8 gigs of data, they spend time making a character, they enter the tutorial and leave forever. What makes them quit? The cut scene? MacAvoy? Socrates? Damage spam? Those damned siren loops?

    Well what made me want to pull my garbage can over and vomit in it was the graphics quality issues caused by comic book outline.

    Here's a good old post from teh Champions Online forums about it.
    They'd be awesome if they were antialiased. I stopped using them when I was on a 4 thousand dollar gaming desktop and took a screencap, posted it to facebook, and got picked on for having a crappy computer running a bad resolution. It only makes the appearance look nicer if it doesn't make the appearance uglier.
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    sistersilicon points out:

    bart_simpson_correlation_causation.jpg

    Well done, but you're wasting your breath. Capt. Pseudo-Science hasn't listened in two years, he's unlikely to start now. :biggrin:
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Well, here's a good old post from....this very thread?
    kallethen wrote: »
    I am one of those who like the comic book outlines. It does succeed in visually conveying a comic book feel. I'm not saying I want it in all my games, I just think it fits CO very well.

    So, I guess that means there's no issue really.*

    *If this post looks silly to you...then you get it. Congratulations. :biggrin:

    P.S. The post! It's coming from inside the thread! Get out now!
    Sorry, couldn't resist the reference.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Why is changing the flag for Comic Outlines from "On" to "Off" by default so terribly contentious? As far as I can tell, no one's proposed removing the option, just changing the default flag. I mean, I don't remember this much fuss when the default option for half-graphics was turned to "Off".

    For myself, I find the comic outline generally just makes the whole image look like someone was trying for a cel-shaded look, and missed. I don't know if turning the outlines off would seriously affect the number of new players staying in any particular fashion.

    The gripping hand is, when analyzing numbers of "New Champions" who've dropped, one must find some way to control for the banned spambots we've been afflicted with recently...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    The gripping hand is, when analyzing numbers of "New Champions" who've dropped, one must find some way to control for the banned spambots we've been afflicted with recently...

    Those numbers are from two years ago, long before we had any bots, which showed up this year with the silver player Global increase. Of course there are plenty of people with multiple accounts, but characters at level 1 don't get you any kind of benefit unless all of them are just logging in to check the numbers in New Champions SGs. I don't know what benefit that would be though, unless there's a lot of people really concerned about the games population numbers, like more of them than players?

    I have one New Champion left and I think if I delete them and join the tutorial they will not be in the New Champions because I sent the other New Champion to a penthouse hideout and the Millennium City map or 'left the tutorial' must trigger "Not a new champion" flag, because deleting that character left their new incarnation supergroupless in the tutorial.
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    What about new players who are unsure of which archetype to play so they try one out for a few minutes and if they decide they're not into it they delete it and try again? I did that same thing when I first started playing, I tried every archetype before deciding on the one I liked best. There could also be people who download the game and get into the tutorial only to have it crash on them because their computers couldn't handle it...and also this is a f2p game that takes up less than 5gigs on your harddrive...it is very simple for the curious to load it up and check it out and then delete it if they're not into it.

    How many of that last group hinge their decisions on the comicbook outlining...we can never truly know.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    What about new players who are unsure of which archetype to play so they try one out for a few minutes and if they decide they're not into it they delete it and try again?

    If you delete a character your character vanishes from the super group. If they made a new character immediately after entering the tutorial and testing their energy builder, then they'd likely still be in the same New Champions SG (unless that SG hit 498 players, then they get put in another), and then we can look at the other numbers of drop outs before level 6, or 12, or whatever level that leaves only 1% of New Champions reaching level 40.
    xydaxyda wrote: »
    How many of that last group hinge their decisions on the comicbook outlining...we can never truly know.
    That's like leaving the refrigerator door closed and saying you'll never know if the light turns on.
    If we open the door, we can start looking at what changes that creates.
    Leaving the door closed leaves us ignorant, in the dark, and hungry.
  • xydaxydaxydaxyda Posts: 817 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    Oh yeah, well so much for that theory... my other two points still stand though.
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I think it would be nice to allow people to try out an AT. Like give them 48 hours. Then after their time is up, when they try to use the character they change the build or delete the character and start over. Int he case of the purchasable ATs I mean.

    The free ones they can retrain to change. I dont know, just a basic idea.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    bwdares wrote: »
    I think it would be nice to allow people to try out an AT. Like give them 48 hours. Then after their time is up, when they try to use the character they change the build or delete the character and start over. Int he case of the purchasable ATs I mean.

    The free ones they can retrain to change. I dont know, just a basic idea.

    You can do this with all of the tens of thousand of games on Steam now. Pay for it, try it for two days,dislike it? get your money back.

    All the AT's should be free.
  • crideasbanecrideasbane Posts: 14 Arc User
    On the other hand though, it might not be a bad idea to show in the tutorial how to disable it, since there's a lot of comments in CO videos in YT, for example, saying they left the game because of "cel-shading" (even though this is NOT cel-shading).

    I'll bet you won't find any comments on any other game that players left because it lacked comic book outline.

    This. If the decision is that it *must* be the default, then the tutorial should instruct the player how to disable it. Otherwise, you are literally risking lost revenue over a single checkbox hidden in a video options menu.
  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Why is changing the flag for Comic Outlines from "On" to "Off" by default so terribly contentious? As far as I can tell, no one's proposed removing the option, just changing the default flag. I mean, I don't remember this much fuss when the default option for half-graphics was turned to "Off".

    For myself, I find the comic outline generally just makes the whole image look like someone was trying for a cel-shaded look, and missed. I don't know if turning the outlines off would seriously affect the number of new players staying in any particular fashion.

    If you turn it off by default, you might as well remove it. The majority of people would never find it after that. Think about all the questions you get in zone from new players who can't find something that's practically right in front of their nose. My question is, what's the harm in leaving it on? I don't know if leaving outlines on would seriously affect the number of new players staying in any particular fashion. If it wouldn't make any difference, why change it? Just cause someone typed it? Remove Grond from the Desert. Change for the sake of change is always a change for the worst.

    Also, I don't think anybody in the history of time thought half resolution gave a game a better look. People with performance issues actually are going to look at graphics settings to see what they can turn down, so there was no danger of people not finding that. However, nobody ever went into a game and thought "Hmmm, I'm having 'low character outline' issues, better check the graphic options to see if I can turn that up..." - on the other hand, someone might think "I wonder if I can turn this off...". Simply put, having outlines default to on makes the most sense.
  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    On the other hand though, it might not be a bad idea to show in the tutorial how to disable it, since there's a lot of comments in CO videos in YT, for example, saying they left the game because of "cel-shading" (even though this is NOT cel-shading).

    I'll bet you won't find any comments on any other game that players left because it lacked comic book outline.

    This. If the decision is that it *must* be the default, then the tutorial should instruct the player how to disable it. Otherwise, you are literally risking lost revenue over a single checkbox hidden in a video options menu.

    At this point we would just be insulting players intelligence. We might as well have Jack Fool walk up to the player and say "Hey kid, did you know games have graphic options? Also that thing under your hands is called a keyboard! Woo hoo!" and then one shot them.
  • nextnametakennextnametaken Posts: 2,212 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    My question is, what's the harm in leaving it on?
    It's ugly, it cheapens the look of the game. It doesn't even make sense where it applies, it even hilights the game's flaws.
    The ugly outline garbage is not what they sell in their advertisements so the game should not have it on by default. The default should be the sweet clean 3D as sold in the videos and screenshots.

    This is a huge design failure.
    PlushVioletDeinonychus.gif

    Why does the tent get an outline, its not important, why do the cops get an outline? they are inactive NPCs
    Why is there thick dark black inside of a tree when there's no shadows anywhere on the map.
    Why are there jaggy black lines on my screen when I have every setting maxed out?
    Why is the head and chest of characters and the roof of a car in one continuous outline but the character's bottom halves are not outlined?

    Any middle school student could tell you that light usually comes from above and adds a highlight to objects at the top , it does not cast a massive black tar band across everything it touches.

    There are little black dots on the sidewalk where the 3D modeler did not match up the mesh.
    They want $50 for a free form slot and they can't even get their tutorial map right in six years, and the comic book outline default points that out to every player as soon as they walk up to their first NPC.

    Dirty default comic outline mode make it look like a five year old helped the devs touch up the game with his black crayon. It's like building a nice new subdivision and adding graffiti to every person, rock, tree, landscape flaw and object.
    I don't know if leaving outlines on would seriously affect the number of new players staying in any particular fashion.
    First impressions are important.
    If it wouldn't make any difference, why change it?
    It will make a difference. Do people buy bruised fruit with black marks all over it? No.
    Post edited by nextnametaken on
  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    My question is, what's the harm in leaving it on?
    It's ugly,

    You already lost me, because I think it looks great. I'm not the only one either.
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    He lost me at his insistence that his PoV was a majority and that it would make a difference. I'm good with next when he has actual pertinent data to work with. I just get bored with the data he makes up in his head.
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • themightyzeniththemightyzenith Posts: 4,599 Arc User
    edited June 2015
    I love the comic book outlining....for me (and we can only talk for ourselves and not for others unless we have irrefutable proof of their thoughts) it makes our characters look so much better.
    zrdRBy8.png
    Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
  • iceih03iceih03 Posts: 204 Arc User
    I play with Comic outline on all the time, just because I like it. But with my old computer I used to turn it off. In my opinion the problem is that there is not a line thickness option, at low resolutions it looks very bad and I guess that at very high it is imperceptible.
  • purin1purin1 Posts: 433 Arc User
    Coming from someone who has never liked comic books in his life, and still does not to this day, I enjoy the comic outline style of the game. I don't like all of my games to look the same, so I'm completely fine with CO being stylized in this way. I think the game looks ugly without the comic outlining, but that's just... y'know, my opinion. We have the option to turn it off if we don't like it, and if it really hurts someone's performance it will most likely be turned off if they go with the recommended settings for their machine in the first place. Besides, it takes all of two minutes of tinkering with the options to turn it off.

    And if someone will really quit the game after one or two minutes of playing it over something that takes so little effort to simply switch off, then what makes you think they will play the game for any extended amount of time for the rest it has to offer? If someone quits over something like this, the moment they find something else just as trivial that they don't like will cause them to quit as well.
    I strive to be the strongest swordsman alive.
  • KagamiTheMagicalCatGerlKagamiTheMagicalCatGerl Posts: 357 Arc User
    purin1 wrote: »
    And if someone will really quit the game after one or two minutes of playing it over something that takes so little effort to simply switch off, then what makes you think they will play the game for any extended amount of time for the rest it has to offer? If someone quits over something like this, the moment they find something else just as trivial that they don't like will cause them to quit as well.

    SJWs are ruining everything.
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