How do you make a Laser Sword Build that works?

mauk2 · May 2015

Is there any way to build a Laser Sword build that can actually USE the Particle Acceleration advantage?

I have a toon that uses Laser Sword, Int and Rec are both super stats with Aura of Primal Majesty boosting everything, 262 End on a 258 equilibrium, geared for maximum cost reduction, and I'm lucky to get two cycles of the combo off before I hit empty.

Has anybody ever gotten this to work on a playable toon?

flowcyto · May 2015

Rush w/ an MA form helps. CoAP helps. Dark Transfusion helps. Cycling 2 AOs with Immolation, LnL, and/or Elec Sheath helps.

Pick 1-2 of these to supplement w/e ur already doing.

mauk2 · May 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

Rush w/ an MA form helps. CoAP helps. Dark Transfusion helps. Cycling 2 AOs with Immolation, LnL, and/or Elec Sheath helps.

Pick 1-2 of these to supplement w/e ur already doing.

What I've been doing is, I cycle between Pulse Beam Rifle to trigger Overdrive and drive Concentration, then Laser Sword to stack Particle Acceleration, then PBR to trigger Overdrive and concentration, etc, etc, etc.

It...sort of works? And make no mistake, the damage is something to behold.

I could remove Overdrive and put in Electric Sheathe...

Here's what it looks like after that change. Is this gonna work, or should I just stick to what i have and accept that there's really no good way to feed Laser Sword.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Lady Superior_4

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Fist
Level 6: Negotiator
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Relentless
Level 15: Covert Ops Training
Level 18: Paramilitary Training
Level 21: Coordinated

Powers:
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Pulse Beam Rifle (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness)
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Thunderclap (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Lightning Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Unbreakable
Level 32: Electric Sheath
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Maybe go all-melee and use Defiance with CoAP? I'd hate to lose the mobility....

flowcyto · May 2015

Well, the EU and the toggle not working directly off of Laser Sword attacks isn't making it easier on ya. Unfortunately the only easy fit is FotT, which means some Dex gearing. MSA could be shoe-horned in w/ a lunge to proc or w/e, or use Flashfire + Thermal Reverb and some End gearing. Then ur not reliant on PBR channels as much. Could also add Rush if using FotT.

I would def add Particle Smash, regardless- its a decent dmg cd that also takes adv of the Particle debuff. For AoE, ya can use Energy wave w/ Rev Polarity to suck mobs in for Smash's small radius.

Unknown · May 2015

This content has been removed.

mauk2 · May 2015

gradii wrote: »

Are you trying to use Q gear Primaries or nemesis Primaries?

Three vigilante secondaries and a full set of Legion primaries, with mostly L7 mods, on this particular toon. Now, that said, I'm gearing for Dex and End off-super on this toon. With AoPM and the Intelligence specs I've taken, the stats on this toon are just huge, almost like having five super stats. There is nothing it's bad at.

Never use that with a laser sword toon unless you wanna run END and REC both as superstats (or use AoPM)

Uh...

As you quoted, I am using AoPM and have REC as a super stat. Even so, I'm not able to sustain Laser Sword for nearly as long as I'd like. Granted, the ranged damage on the toon is MONUMENTAL, so I'll likely leave this one as-is. Why mess with a fun build, eh?

I'll probably level another toon to 40 as a dedicated laser sworder, if there's a playable build that'll run the monster.

And speaking of which....

Here's a rough swag at a laser sword build, what do people think?

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Laserdemain_1

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Fist
Level 6: Negotiator
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Relentless
Level 15: Covert Ops Training
Level 18: Paramilitary Training
Level 21: Coordinated

Powers:
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
Level 6: Lightspeed Dash
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Particle Smash (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness)
Level 29: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Electric Sheath (Rank 2, Matter Energy Union)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Versatility)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Tenacious (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto · May 2015

Looks pretty good for a LS build. If energy is still an issue then maybe get Dark Transfusion or CoAP in a later slot, or (since ur using FotT) take Dragon's Wrath or Dragon's Bite for Rush.

You'll prob want Dex SS'd for a build w/ FotT (esp if using Rush); ya can still gear some energy stats on the side (may not be needed w/ AoPM). I'd also pair Vindicator w/ Warden over Guardian, since the build is heavily combo-based and Warden shines at boosting combos (along w/ what it normally does).

monsterdaddy · May 2015

CoAP for max Laser Sword DPS with PA. I reach 4K DPS on a tank toon

mauk2 · May 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

You'll prob want Dex SS'd for a build w/ FotT (esp if using Rush); ya can still gear some energy stats on the side (may not be needed w/ AoPM).

I think I might be all right, the toon this is based off has over 160 Dex on top of the huge boost the Int tree spec Enlightened gives me. The base crit chance is 42 percent, which should be plenty to keep Form of the Tempest firing.

I'd also pair Vindicator w/ Warden over Guardian, since the build is heavily combo-based and Warden shines at boosting combos (along w/ what it normally does).

Ah, now that's a great idea. Made that change, so now the combo gets +15 crit chance, or, 57 percent. Severity is not as high as it could be, but oh, well, the damage is still good.

Now I have a hard decision: Give up ten points on all non-super stats (which are boosted by thirty percent), or get Warden Mastery for +10 percent combo damage and that sweet, sweet Grit buff....

Hrrrrm.

Here's the build:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Laserdemain_3

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Fist
Level 6: Negotiator
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Relentless
Level 15: Covert Ops Training
Level 18: Paramilitary Training
Level 21: Coordinated

Powers:
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
Level 6: Lightspeed Dash
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Particle Smash (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 26: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness)
Level 29: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Electric Sheath (Rank 2, Matter Energy Union)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Masterful Dodge

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Versatility)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto · May 2015

Warden Mastery is quite strong for the LS combo; I'd recommend it. Int Mastery isn't that much- though its okay for AoPM builds, its more like something to pick if the other two mastery options aren't any good or helpful at all.

I'd still SS Dex and get it to the 200-250 range at least, which shouldn't be too hard for AoPM. That gives ya a decent dmg boost from FotT (and more energy from FotT and general crit).

vonqball · May 2015

I think you would be best served with an INT, DEX, CON susperstat setup. Focus on skyrocketing your dex and get the Int spec that boosts secondary superstats. Combine this with the warden and vindicator trees for extremely high crit chance with combos. The amount of energy you get from FotT scales off of dex, so more is better. More damage from crits, more crits, more energy from crits. The synergy there is kinda ridiculous.

I've been working on a sword cyclone build that has similar issues, but laser sword is actually much easier to support. Mostly due to that huge crit chance bonus on combos from the warden tree.

mauk2 · May 2015

vonqball wrote: »

I think you would be best served with an INT, DEX, CON susperstat setup. Focus on skyrocketing your dex and get the Int spec that boosts secondary superstats. Combine this with the warden and vindicator trees for extremely high crit chance with combos. The amount of energy you get from FotT scales off of dex, so more is better. More damage from crits, more crits, more energy from crits. The synergy there is kinda ridiculous.

Huh....

I find this reasoning persuasive. Swapping from REC to DEX.

Plus, to make this even more sweet, I have MSA as my energy unlock with Int as a primary superstat. That's working WELL so far.

I am cautiously optimistic!

I've been working on a sword cyclone build that has similar issues, but laser sword is actually much easier to support. Mostly due to that huge crit chance bonus on combos from the warden tree.

Yeah, I'm speccing for the +15 percent crits AND the +10 percent damage on the laser sword combo with this toon. With the change to a DEX superstat boosted by the Int tree, this is looking pretty viable.

Thanks for the ideas!

As for your toon, that sounds pretty interesting, can you post a build?

mauk2 · May 2015

Also, just out of curiosity: Does anyone actually know what particle acceleration does, and is it actually better than R3?

It occurs to me I'm taking on faith that PA is good. ...and I'm not sure.

vonqball · May 2015

Particle acceleration makes each hit of the LS combo ramp up the damage of the next hit...and the energy cost. So, you need to hit all three times to get the full effect. I'm not sure of the exact numbers, but I have used it (on an AoPM hero), and the damage was pretty decent.

With high Dex, you may also want to start off a combo with a charged rush move. The cost discount they provide is also based on dex, so even more synergy there. Dragon uppercut does good damage, and the two powers would have a kinda "Power Rangers" feel if used together.

Here is a link to a pretty tight LS build I found a while ago.... http://www.fulldive.nu/2014/07/30/champions-online-etincelles-laser-sword-pyre-build/

vonqball · May 2015

Here is a link to the thread where I was asking for input on my cyclone build. Some good insights there on how to deal with high energy cost powers. Sterga gave me some pointers based on her Laser sword/cyclone build..which might be another track to consider.

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=309871&highlight=spin

Unknown · May 2015

This content has been removed.

flowcyto · May 2015

mauk2 wrote: »

Also, just out of curiosity: Does anyone actually know what particle acceleration does, and is it actually better than R3?

The PA debuff gives ~7% Particle -resist per stack, so about 21% at 3 stacks (used to think it was more like 24-25% at 3 stacks, but apparently the Regen dummies have closer to 16-17% resist than 20%).

Quick dps tests using a tester PH Hybrid toon. Tried to go w/o as many stats and gear as possible, but LS's PA adv meant I still had to get R3 AoPM, R3 CoAP, full energy SS's, and wear 2/3rds of my gear to not have my energy drop over the course of a longer test. Annoying, but oh well.

w/ R2 + PA adv:

TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE  MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:18     381,404  364,157     1,474.31  397.30   21      1,739   960   0.31      7%     -4%      
Laser Sword  04:15     322,373  307,937     1,246.13  839.51   435     1,739   384   0.67      17%    -4%      
Plasma Burn  04:17     59,031   56,220      228.18    102.48   21      105     576   0.46      0%     -4%

w/ R3 (everything else the same):

TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE  MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:18     352,962  423,853     1,368.07  366.14   16      1,663   964   0.30      6%     16%      
Laser Sword  04:14     306,147  367,433     1,186.62  791.08   505     1,663   387   0.66      14%    16%      
Plasma Burn  04:15     46,815   56,420      181.45    81.14    16      83      577   0.48      0%     17%

crit RNG on the combo favored the PA test here (17% vs 14%), but the diff between the combos w/o PB factored in isn't too much even w/ RNG favoring the former here a bit.

Since its also buffing Plasma Burn that comes w/ the combo, that makes PA still slightly better than a normal rank by itself. However, unless the build was using another Particle dmg power that also did considerable dmg I'd normally get the basic combo to R3, since the PA debuff is quite prohibitive for energy and building overall (imo).

monsterdaddy · May 2015

I think my testing with PA showed a good 10% dps increase. I always used a CoAP so energy was never an issue.

Laser Sword is a very strange beast leading to some weird behavior. For example, each LS attack is so high in damage that using other powers, even the logical Particle Smash w/PA debuffs will lower your overall dps. Part of it is because the last attack is so high in damage, it would be better to just keep the combos going vs. interrupting the cycle.

Note: PA will proc to 3 stacks with just one strike.

All in all, I've found LS w/PA and UR = Massacre/Shred/Mental Storm/UR = Haymaker/Demolish/UR = Dragon Claws/Viper Fangs/Mental Storm. Seems the upper limit is around 4K in tank role with Laser Knight on Energy Shield.

jasinblaze · May 2015

no energy issues here decent dps and survivibility

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Endurance (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Acrobat
Level 9: Accurate
Level 12: Impresario
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Boundless Reserves
Level 21: Amazing Stamina

Powers:
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Particle Acceleration)
Level 6: Energy Shield (Laser Knight)
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Electric Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 17:
Level 20:
Level 23:
Level 26:
Level 29:
Level 32:
Level 35:
Level 38:

Travel Powers:
Level 6:
Level 35:

Specializations:
Endurance: Readiness (3/3)
Endurance: Kickback (2/2)
Endurance: Power Overwhelming (3/3)
Endurance: Hardened (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Endurance Mastery (1/1)

mauk2 · May 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

However, unless the build was using another Particle dmg power that also did considerable dmg I'd normally get the basic combo to R3, since the PA debuff is quite prohibitive for energy and building overall (imo).

I'm glad you posted this, because I just took my brand-new L20 into the Powerhouse and did me some tinkering, and I could find no advantage AT ALL for Particle Acceleration over R3.

And all that nothing raised the endurance cost, per swing, from 18 to 25. So, for the privilege of paying an extra 40 percent End, you get...diddly.

SERIOUSLY?! Who designs a game like this?

morigosa · May 2015

mauk2 wrote: »

I'm glad you posted this, because I just took my brand-new L20 into the Powerhouse and did me some tinkering, and I could find no advantage AT ALL for Particle Acceleration over R3.

Powerhouse isn't the best place for that test, though; the dummies there have low base resists. If you're specced int primary and already have resist reduction from that, then the advantage on laser sword won't help there.

Where it will help is out in the actual game, against high resist targets such as rampage bosses or Duratok & Ironclad in Forum Malvanum.

flowcyto · May 2015

morigosa wrote: »

Powerhouse isn't the best place for that test, though; the dummies there have low base resists. If you're specced int primary and already have resist reduction from that, then the advantage on laser sword won't help there.

Where it will help is out in the actual game, against high resist targets such as rampage bosses or Duratok & Ironclad in Forum Malvanum.

My tests weren't done w/ Detect Vuln, though. The resist on PA didn't seem to be capped at 0% (as it is w/ DV or Expose Weakness), as it went from -16-17% to +4% resist on the regen dummies.

mauk2 · May 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

My tests weren't done w/ Detect Vuln, though. The resist on PA didn't seem to be capped at 0% (as it is w/ DV or Expose Weakness), as it went from -16-17% to +4% resist on the regen dummies.

Yeah, that's interesting, but to justify the huge increase in END usage, that would have to stack to about +35 percent resist or more.

You ran your test for 4 minutes, and while I didn't log my stuff, I went at it for WAAAAY longer than any fight in-game would ever go.

An advantage that isn't an advantage. (sigh)

Maybe if there was more synergy in the other laser sword attacks, but if you try to use them you're forced into that clunky 'use this attack once for this buff, then use this next attack for it's buff, and then maybe, you can get a double-strength attack at the end'.

Yes, it CAN be done, but man it's clunky, and I don't need to log things to know that in a 'real' encounter, you'd never get that thing to work.

But, ehn, plain old laser sword is plenty cool.

flowcyto · May 2015

To be fair, if ya can find a way to negate the extra energy concerns w/ the PA adv, then you still have a dps increase w/ it over R3. Monsterdaddy's tank build w/ it is a good example of this (since it uses Defiance, CoAP, STR PSS for Physical peak, MSA, and Int SS):
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4757651&postcount=14

Its just that, barring a few setups like that, I find it unlikely where ur using the PA adv and it doesn't cause you to increase ur end building or cause you to sacrifice more dps stats for more energy stats at all. Defiance and AoPM are nice and all, but neither lead to optimal dps innately since they can't be used in the Brawler role, DT is risky w/ the stacking self-dmg and the inc heal penalty (counteracting it can be easy, but oftentimes the solution doesn't lead to optimal dps), and w/ CoAP ur tied to a circle as a melee'er and still out an extra power slot (and/or being able to use CoPD or CoRG).

The adv is nice when used w/ the whole LS mini-set, but I dun think most players bother w/ that.

monsterdaddy · May 2015

Thanks Flowcyto, I was beginning to think my post was ignored. PA is costly but very rewarding if you got energy figured out.

A good setup can allow a tank role to be close or even better at DPS than Brawler/Ranged under combat conditions vs. PH Dummy testing. IMHO, this type of setup needs two things: 1) You don't have to press a heal, and 2) you don't have to block. (Maybe add 3) you rarely get knocked to this list also.)

Let's say in Gravitar you have my tank at 4K DPS and a brawler at 5K DPS. Say I rarely block or press a heal but the brawler blocks or runs away for 2 seconds out of every 20, and also presses 2 heals. So figure about 4 seconds lost/20 or about a 20% decrease in DPS for the brawler lowering it to 4K and we're even in damage.

I came to this conclusion because I've had lots of folks report my tanks as top DPS in Rampages when tons of DPS builds are around. And my playstyle likes builds with Regeneration/Necrullitic Elixir and Laser Knight because I don't have to mash extra buttons.

If you can track some Rampages, I think you may find some interesting numbers.

flowcyto · May 2015

Well, Gravi is a bit of an odd beast (er, mistress) esp when it comes to melee. CoPD may be one of the best dps increases for melee vs. her, esp builds w/o Str or Con PSS.

For her, the usual solutions for Brawler builds like Earth Form or Stormbringer won't boost Laser Sword at all. Next best thing defensively is WotW, but then you'd want something like TKicks to increase ur dodge a bit, and even then its still possible to get RNG'd to death. That puts any LS build that wants to stay in Brawler in a bit of a bind vs. Gravi.

mauk2 · June 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

Monsterdaddy's tank build w/ it is a good example of this (since it uses Defiance, CoAP, STR PSS for Physical peak, MSA, and Int SS):
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4757651&postcount=14

Yeah, I've looked at that build a few times, and it's a doozy.

But honestly, the complete lack of a rage-building attack makes it almost as clunky as my ranged/melee switcher I posted at the start of this thread.

COULD that beast feed Laser Sword? As long as you keep aggro, sure. Defiance is...a helluva drug.

And yes, I've got an old 40 that I might rebuild into something similar. I'd have to add a knock attack, though, it'd drive me nuts otherwise.

Probably Vicious Cyclone with Vortex. That's a great tank utility power and a good rage builder...

Hrrrrrmmmm.....

flowcyto · June 2015

mauk2 wrote: »

COULD that beast feed Laser Sword? As long as you keep aggro, sure. Defiance is...a helluva drug.

I'd imagine it does, since Monsterdaddy can get 4k or so dps from it as a tank :x
It may have some energy issues in lower quality gear, but that'd be my only concern about it when trying to field it atm- performance in merc/heroic-level stuff w/ lower-ranked mods.

And yes, I've got an old 40 that I might rebuild into something similar. I'd have to add a knock attack, though, it'd drive me nuts otherwise.

Probably Vicious Cyclone with Vortex. That's a great tank utility power and a good rage builder...

Sure. Vortex Cyclone's dps is crap, but that's my go-to for easy AoE w/ Enrage/Might builds. Its dps is too low to be using against bosses, though (imo).

sterga · June 2015

monsterdaddy wrote: »

If you can track some Rampages, I think you may find some interesting numbers.

How much DPS someone can do is determined by who is in the group. If there are a ton of high-end dps toons, everyone's DPS is lower. Most people do around ~2k dps in Grav. In F&I, it's more like ~1k dps.

Chances are if you do 4k dps as a tank in Grav, everyone else is spending the entire alert dead.

monsterdaddy · June 2015

sterga wrote: »

How much DPS someone can do is determined by who is in the group. If there are a ton of high-end dps toons, everyone's DPS is lower. Most people do around ~2k dps in Grav. In F&I, it's more like ~1k dps.

Chances are if you do 4k dps as a tank in Grav, everyone else is spending the entire alert dead.

Why would you say that? Higher DPS toons do not take away DPS from others, in fact it's probably higher for everyone given the sharing of damage resistance debuffs, Rimefire burst builds are prime examples (and may the only one) where DPS in actual combat conditions will exceed PH Dummy DPS.

Hellion's Laser Sword build is quite unusual, I think it was quite a paradigm shift using only Aggressor and Unleashed Rage to build Enrage stacks every 15 seconds. Which means Enrage isn't a major source of energy, CoAP is #1 followed by MSA and Defiance. But it does free you from having to pick a lower DPS knock attack.

You really could make some innovative builds with this, like Dragon Claws, Devour Essence, Bullet Beatdown or Ego Blades with Enrage instead of FotT and gain the benefits of STR PSS.

friezaliveson · June 2015

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Why would you say that? Higher DPS toons do not take away DPS from others, in fact it's probably higher for everyone given the sharing of damage resistance debuffs, Rimefire burst builds are prime examples (and may the only one) where DPS in actual combat conditions will exceed PH Dummy DPS.

Hellion's Laser Sword build is quite unusual, I think it was quite a paradigm shift using only Aggressor and Unleashed Rage to build Enrage stacks every 15 seconds. Which means Enrage isn't a major source of energy, CoAP is #1 followed by MSA and Defiance. But it does free you from having to pick a lower DPS knock attack.

You really could make some innovative builds with this, like Dragon Claws, Devour Essence, Bullet Beatdown or Ego Blades with Enrage instead of FotT and gain the benefits of STR PSS.

A bit off topic question but I saw you in a Gravitar tanking talk about dat Dodge 20k. Can I haz or rather I should pls post build.

I wanna make a Dodge tank!

flowcyto · June 2015

I think there's a bit of truth to either side of this. While other players do not inherently affect ur dps, they can bring a myriad of other factors that can. Its also about Gravi in particular. I notice w/ very heavy melee groups she does her close-range bubbles more often and its more liekly a random target bubble will blanket melee, and if ur a knock-prone melee unit that can destroy ur dps uptime. Sometimes its also just terrible Cascade RNG that singles out 1-2 players throughout and forces them on the defensive heavily (or just to die)- and that's more likely to happen to a melee than to a ranged unit.

sterga · June 2015

monsterdaddy wrote: »

Why would you say that?

Because that is what my parsers reflect. Grav's HP doesn't change every round, but the players that show up do. Most people are not doing 4k dps. If some is doing that much, everyone else is doing a lot less. DPS depends on the competition and can easily vary wildly from team to team.

kaiserin · June 2015

I don't think you're reading those parses correctly. This is a game where you can stack debuffs/dots/etc with little to no penalty (with a few exceptions), so having multiple DPS would not take away damage from a player. If anything with additional debuffs kicking around it should go up.

pantagruel01 · June 2015

I have been in multiple Gravitars with multiple people doing high dps; I've never noticed it impairing my dps. The big things that affect DPS are:

Is someone else using debuffs that match my attacks?
How much time do I have to spend on staying alive, instead of attacking.

If there are multiple dps toons, there may not be toons that help me with staying alive. Other than that, other dps are only a problem if they run around catching me in bubbles centered on them or with force cascades aimed at them.

mauk2 · June 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

If there are multiple dps toons, there may not be toons that help me with staying alive. Other than that, other dps are only a problem if they run around catching me in bubbles centered on them or with force cascades aimed at them.

This.

I'm not a Gravi expert by any means, but I find a lot of high DPS players (not toons, players) don't really have a strong sense of tactics. Hit it harder, until it breaks.

Nothing wrong with that, but you need to have a sense of teamwork, too, a sense of who is doing what.

For example, if I'm on a DPS toon and there's a tank that I can overburn and take aggro from, is it smart to overburn the tank?

If the tank is smart and has the baddie pointed away from the other DPS/support? No, it's better to ease up and let the tank take the aggro back. This lowers MY dps, but the other folks near me who might get face-planted or knocked or stunned by attacks coming at me instead of the tank, their continued high dps more than makes up for it, in most cases.

In a Gravi with a lot of serious high damage toons, where Gravi's attention is flicking around like mad, those runs tend to be very chaotic and messy. So a lot of people spend time dead, or time blocking or recovering from knocks/near-death.

I could completely believe that aggregate damage goes down in such cases.

Another thing that makes me crazy in alerts: A high damage DPS toon takes aggro from the boss...and starts running while they keep right on attacking.

Good god, what good does that do?! Now all the melee lose damage as they have to chase the boss around. If you overburn and take aggro you can't handle, then STOP ATTACKING and START BLOCKING.

Don't run around like a panicky mouse. Criminy.

sterga · June 2015

If you guys want to run a parser or twenty and tell me that you find tons of people doing 4k dps in Grav or that DPS doesn't change by as much as several thousand based on who else is on your team, go for it. It's not that having lots of high dps toons impairs your own, but that you have most people on the same level.

If I end up in a Grav where I'm the only person doing high damage, my dps is going to appear higher than it probably is. If I end up in a Grav where most people have around the same build level as my character, then my dps shows up lower, but it's probably more accurate.

I have a 10K dps parse on a 2 min Ripper. It makes me giggle, but it basically shows why parsing on short content is pointless if I want to actually see if my toon meets my build goals. It's also why I take the numbers on DPS with a mountain of salt and instead see how I do VS everyone else over a long period of time.

kaiserin · June 2015

Damage is going to vary due to other factors. Gravitar is a team setting, meaning there's going to be people throwing around different buffs and debuffs. If someone is running AoPM or AoED, there's going to be a boost in damage. If someone is holding consistent aggro on her, the dps will have a easier time. If there is strong support players won't have to spend as much time taking care of themselves. There's also crit/power variance that you're not going to get an accurate read on in a short instance. etc etc.

I do have some logs where you were present last Gravitar run and your damage does vary quite a bit...but so does your attack delay. The runs with the highest output have you at the shortest delays, where the lower ones have a much greater delay. This is likely due to having to block more, getting knocked, getting killed, etc.

mauk2 · June 2015

Just so folks can see, here's the build I'm currently leveling:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Laser_Queen_4

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Fist
Level 6: Negotiator
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Covert Ops Training
Level 15: Healthy Mind
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Acrobat

Powers:
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Lightspeed Dash
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 20: Sword Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Electric Sheath (Rank 2, Matter Energy Union)
Level 35: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
Level 38: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Versatility)
Level 35: Retractable Wings

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

I think this build incorporates all the advice and comments in this thread.

I just hit level 30, and I'm running a set of three armadillo and three...non-physical boosters.... darn it can't remember which one that is....

I've been VERY pleased with this toon. Yes, I have to block some when the aggro gets too hot, but as long as I'm busy on the lunge and conviction buttons, I can indeed keep laser sword fed even at 30, although that's without the nigh-useless particle acceleration.

Hilariously, sword cyclone is actually much easier to maintain as long as I'm hitting three+ baddies.

I'm also pleasantly surprised at the durability, LOTS of hitpoints for the level thanks to the Con secondary boosted by the Int spec.

I'll let folks know how it runs once I hit forty. I'm already getting gear, just bought a DUC as a matter of fact. Now to start scraping for a set of legions, and as soon as my 500 zen hits I'll be able to pop a set of Vigilante on there to boot.

Many thanks to all for the advice! This is a lot more fun than I expected.

flowcyto · June 2015

Hmm, I don't think the DUC takes resistance past 0%, so it may not be good to combo w/ Int PSS's -resist (which also has the same issue). DV + DUC strikes me as good for F&I, but for most other content it'll prob be a waste to combine them.

sterga · June 2015

kaizerin wrote: »

Stuff and things.

So, some of that is basically what I said and some of it is "well no kidding" (being dead affects my dps... no...) and none of it seems to show what I've said as incorrect. If you really want to argue, I have a few months of logs I can dig into and we can do this for all of eternity.

My basic point was that people claim all of these numbers for their DPS output and that is not what I'm seeing. What I am seeing is wild variations and very, very few people pumping out these special numbers. Do your own extensive parsing and see for yourself. Or you can believe that 10k dps for an offense laser sword build in alerts is normal and not just a silly fluke.

I found that purple secondaries can be very close to the vigilante gear. I have Int secondaries that give +37 and only picked up vigilante for the offense secondary. With Int pri you can probably have over 40% base crit without using a gamblers or crit secondaries. Of course, with AoPM passive, you don't really need to use a sentinel broach or heal bonus gear either for better heals.

You may want to consider putting only 1pt into Detect Vulnerability and two into Tinkering since you have the DU core. It may be more useful to you with Wardicator than the extra damage pen. Especially if you plan to upgrade to the Justice set.

Elixir is a better heal than BCR. Not having the damage debuff is nice.

pantagruel01 · June 2015

sterga wrote: »

So, some of that is basically what I said and some of it is "well no kidding" (being dead affects my dps... no...) and none of it seems to show what I've said as incorrect.

All I can say is that it doesn't match up with my experience.

sterga wrote: »

My basic point was that people claim all of these numbers for their DPS output and that is not what I'm seeing. What I am seeing is wild variations and very, very few people pumping out these special numbers.

I'm not sure what that has to do with anything you'd previously said. Yes, even if I don't get killed, my dps in Gravitar can easily vary by a factor of 2 or more. However, the low parses are almost always in runs where everyone parses low, and high parses in runs where multiple people parse high, because in the end most of the things that help me do more damage help other people do more damage too -- AoPM, AoRP, defense debuffs, entinel aura/mastery, a capable tank holding aggro, and so on. You're saying that somehow other people doing more damage makes your damage lower.

mauk2 · June 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

Hmm, I don't think the DUC takes resistance past 0%, so it may not be good to combo w/ Int PSS's -resist (which also has the same issue). DV + DUC strikes me as good for F&I, but for most other content it'll prob be a waste to combine them.

...well crud.

Didn't think of that, saw it in zone chat and had the G to hand and impulse bought it. (sigh)

Well, okay, it'll keep nice and safe in my hideout until I find a good home for it.

Dang, man, gonnz take me a week or more to build up a stack of G again.

Unknown · June 2015

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Unknown · June 2015

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mauk2 · June 2015

Well, the new laser sword toon has hit 40, and it works pretty darn good. Equipped with 3 Armadillo pieces and three cyber suit pieces, it can land crits of 4k against powerhouse dummies. In hybrid role I still need to pop lunge every couple of combo cycles, but I expect some cost gear will fix that.

And boy, does it do damage.

Well, good damage for a melee toon anyway. Plus, it's mondo durable, which I did NOT expect. I can run the Powerhouse danger room at max settings, no sweat, and even gather up the entire room and drop the whole lot.

So, for gearing, where should I go? Dump everything into the secondary super stats to max AoPM? That's what I'm thinking, and load up like crazy on off/def gear. I'm probably getting three vig pieces and three legion pieces, it's just a matter of which ones and how they're slotted.

mauk2 · June 2015

Oh, and here's a copy of the build at 40, just a few minor tweaks.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Laser_Queen_5

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Dexterity (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Fist
Level 6: Negotiator
Level 9: Body and Mind
Level 12: Covert Ops Training
Level 15: Healthy Mind
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Acrobat

Powers:
Level 1: Laser Edge
Level 1: Laser Sword (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Lightspeed Dash
Level 8: Form of the Tempest
Level 11: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 20: Sword Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Rank 3, Voracious Darkness)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Masterful Dodge
Level 32: Electric Sheath (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Unbreakable (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Versatility)
Level 35: Retractable Wings

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto · June 2015

The build looks good overall. As far as gearing: I'd prob keep the 3-set Armadillo 2ndaries for a while, since Vigil pieces are quite the investment. Since the build isn't too heavily dodge-based, I'd get the justice/heroic gear defensive w/ maxHP and/or defense over dodge/avoidance, and prob the utility primaries that mix even amounts of cost reduction w/ CDR and add impact mods for more CDR (since for this build both of those stats are nice, though cost reduction diminishes pretty harshly when paired w/ Int SS). Offensive slot is a bit more up to you and some other variables- like can ya attain a DUC or not, do ya want more bonus healing or more crit? etc.

I'd also have a target maxHP in mind, like 10K or 12k, and gear up to that point- as far as determining how much Con or Growth mods ya wanna stack vs. the other stats.

mauk2 · June 2015

flowcyto wrote: »

The build looks good overall. As far as gearing: I'd prob keep the 3-set Armadillo 2ndaries for a while, since Vigil pieces are quite the investment.

I will hold them over for a bit, but I'm a lifer and can just buy the Q if I like, generally every couple of months. This build is more than nice enough to tool out.

Since the build isn't too heavily dodge-based, I'd get the justice/heroic gear defensive w/ maxHP and/or defense over dodge/avoidance,

So, skip avoidance/dodge and just stack defensive/offensive to pump Wardicator. Yeah, was leaning that way.

and prob the utility primaries that mix even amounts of cost reduction w/ CDR and add impact mods for more CDR (since for this build both of those stats are nice, though cost reduction diminishes pretty harshly when paired w/ Int SS).

So 1 each impact and gambler in the utility slot and balance the cd and cr. Sound advice again.

Offensive slot is a bit more up to you and some other variables- like can ya attain a DUC or not, do ya want more bonus healing or more crit? etc.

Er, I already bought a DUC for this toon and was told it wouldn't stack well with the Int spec I took. I have it socked away, becoming dusty and unloved. I almost always go for more crit, and with this build, that's almost a certainty.

I'd also have a target maxHP in mind, like 10K or 12k, and gear up to that point- as far as determining how much Con or Growth mods ya wanna stack vs. the other stats.

Standing at 40 in the basic q gear, the toon is running 9248hp. So, 10k is almost trivial. I was going to load up on secondary stats, to pump up AoPM, but honestly, every SS is nice to have on this toon. 3 vig's plus AoPM will get me to 300 int without anything, so I was thinking three each dex and con, as big mods as I can afford, although in practical terms, that's usually 7's.

As is typical of a toon I level these days, this one arrived at 40 with 548 G after I paid back the 100 G starter loan I gave it. Plus I have another 3-5 hundred in sellable goodies socked away for when I have the attention span to deal with the AH. A set of Legions usually runs me 1500-2k, and R6/R7 mods another 2k-ish. My impulse buy of the DUC has me a little low on G so I'll hold off a bit while the funds pile up again.

Not like this toon needs anything, I'm mainly kitting it to see what it turns into.

flowcyto · June 2015

Yeah its been a while due to the forum migration and I forgot about thew DV and DUC thing. Def save that for a diff toon if ur not gonna sell it off.

How do you make a Laser Sword Build that works?

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