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Crashing Wave Kick + Crip. Challenge

uncertainprimeuncertainprime Posts: 21 Arc User
edited May 2015 in Power Discussion
I've been playing with a dodge tank using pistols and I was trying hard to come up with ways to boost his dodge without taking EM and without seriously compromising his DPS. What I came up with was popping Parry with EM with the occasional Righteous Fists EB and Crashing Wave Kick (CWK) with Ebb & Flow Adv.

So far, it seems to work really well, but I was wondering how effective putting Crippling Challenge on Crashing Wave Kick was as opposed to Two Gun Mojo. I know damage plays a roll in taunting but CWK has no cooldown so I could frequently tap it, which also synergizes well with Lock & Load with Two Smoking Barrels.

This seems too good to be true so I'm skeptical as to its effectiveness, and I don't want to leave the PH until I'm sure it'll work well for taunting baddies off of the squishies
Post edited by uncertainprime on

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,848 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    What is ur main attack? Is it TGM? Cause the problem w/ TGM is that even if its threat and dps gen can be quite high, since its a Ranged attack it won't work w/ Elusive Monk or CWK's adv (or Lock N Load's adv). I'm assuming a Ranged attack is not ur main one if ur taking all that melee-related stuff, but I'm not too sure from reading here.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
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  • uncertainprimeuncertainprime Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Actually TGM is my main. The thing is though (at least from my limited testing) a quick click of CWK fires off Elusive Monk and Ebb & Flow for a bit, and the use of Righteous Fists as the EB keeps it going, or at least gives a quick refresh.

    It's not perfect, Elusive Monk doesn't go on constantly, but between Ebb & Flow, Elusive Monk and Lead Tempest w/adv it seems to work reasonably well.

    Another option I would think be to replace TGM with Bullet Beatdown w/Break the Trigger and that would really help keep my dodge high. It seemed like TGM did considerably more damage overall though, so I wasn't sure it was worth the tradeoff.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,620 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    You really don't want to use your EB to maintain dodge in that fashion. You're just leaving enemies more chances to wipe you out. Plus the amount of dps you are losing because you are using your EB to help reduce L&L cooldown is hurting your performance outright. Don't use CWK unless you have lots of melee powers. And Bullet Beatdown doesn't all count as melee attacks either.
  • uncertainprimeuncertainprime Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I guess I wasn't clear on some points, sorry.

    I wasn't using the EB to reduce L&L, just for the occasional tick it kicks in to fire off Ebb & Flow and Elusive Monk. I'm not planning to use it for any serious length of time, it just seemed to work well for the second here or there that it kicks in.

    And you're totally right about the combo with Bullet Beatdown, but with the advantage every 2nd and 4th bit in the combo counts as melee. It's such a fast combo, would Elusive Monk go away for that split second? It seemed like it had a bit of lingering effect.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Damage does contribute to overall threat in a general sense, but Crippling Challenge automatically forces the target into attacking you unless it already has the 10 sec taunt debuff kicked in from having someone else use CC on it. I wouldn't worry about how much damage factors into the threat generation since it's an auto taunt.

    If your main concern is wanting to keep your dodge + avoidance at optimal levels at all times while in melee (especially since you have Parry - Elusive Monk) then it's probably best to use CC for melee powers like CWK, unless your playstyle using TGM involves point-blank range.

    Alternatively you can use TGM with CC as a ranged opening attack, switching from target to target to get them to come at you, then lunge in for the melee assault. You could also have something like Inexorable Tides with Challenging Strikes to help upkeep the threat.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,848 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    TGM ticks rapidly, so its great for adding CripC's flat threat (which is added per hit and is a separate thing from the other parts of CripC- like the taunt feature or the block disable).

    However, TGM's base dps can be high enough such that dropping CripC from it (to move elsewhere) may not cause aggro issues in most content- ur lowering threat gen a good bit, but gaining some dps to help compensate (not completely for threat, but somewhat). It may matter more vs. F&I; holding threat vs. them via dmg is considerably tougher since both targets have 200% dmg resist, but that resist doesn't impact the flat threat added from CripC/CS.

    Bullet Beatdown can be made all melee (w/ the adv, but then ur only getting that if ur also putting CripC on it). Otherwise, even normally w/ half the hits being Ranged, the combo does hit quite rapidly such that I don't think there'd be any gaps in EM. May be worth testing that out in the PH or PTS, though, just to get a feel for it and how much leeway ya have.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • uncertainprimeuncertainprime Posts: 21 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Had some interesting results with my build and now I'm again thinking I need to tweak it. I dropped CWK and went with Backhand Chop for the interrupt, CC, and helping to proc MSA. It's effective at interrupting and proccing, but I can't say I'm all that impressed with it's taunting ability. As a matter of fact, I seem to have more reliable results by switching to Lead Tempest w/Challenging Strikes.

    Next step is to go into Tank stance (been going Hybrid) and see how much more threat that helps me get.

    Nonetheless this has been an interesting experiment, and continues to be. I've been using a combo of Bullet Beat Down, Backhand Chop, Holdout Shot and Lead Tempest and it's certainly very survivable (not perfect yet).

    I feel silly for not realizing that Break the Trigger turns the entire combo of BBB into melee. Handy though, and it gives me more to think about.
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