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blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
Hi old time lifer here, I quit for the last year or so but I'm curious to know the status of ol' Champs.
Post edited by blademaster5121 on
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Still chugging along, getting the occasional new costume or bit of content. When the layoffs hit a little while back, they lost a few folks from Neverwinter, a couple from STO - and none from CO, because apparently it doesn't take that much to keep us going. We're still making more money than it costs to keep our server share running, and unlike some companies (>coughNCSoftcough<), PWE doesn't seem inclined to shut anything down so long as it's making at least a small profit.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Hi old time lifer here, I quit for the last year or so but I'm curious to know the status of ol' Champs.

    ingame, very little has changed, depending on when you left, we got a new set of missions where we get to fight mechanon, which is nice.
    out of game, co has been moved back from ncnorth to some of the original devs.
  • deadman20deadman20 Posts: 1,531 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    hang_in_there__khajiit__by_galoogamelady-d5w5bcl.png

    Rescue's on the way! Maybe!
    Steam Guide to Modifications and Equipment (Champions Online) - DZPlayer's Builds (Last updated: 3/26/2018)
    And I will always be @DZPlayer122.

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  • stellariodragonstellariodragon Posts: 588 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    PWE doesn't seem inclined to shut anything down so long as it's making at least a small profit.

    If anything, PWE is trying to build a library of MMOs to fueled by Zen and ARC, so it would be against their over-all plans to end any of their MMOs. At least there will be light content and costume pieces for a few years. I kinda wish the community would shut down the whiners and accept the state of things. It's not COX, it's probably not going to get a new zone or a foundry. The days of having 10+ instances of Millennium city are long gone. CO is not going to go away though and it can be a cool and groovy place if we stop giving into negativity. :biggrin:

    As far as art goes, I'm starting to realize that criticism antagonizes passion, so people should really consider the trade-off before replying to every DEV update with a list of grievances. But that's getting off-topic.
  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    rianfrost wrote: »
    ingame, very little has changed, depending on when you left, we got a new set of missions where we get to fight mechanon, which is nice.
    out of game, co has been moved back from ncnorth to some of the original devs.

    Well.. That's bad. Unless by original you mean akinos, drannic, taco, etc, then that's bad. I like Cryptic North, they actually did stuff.

    Oh well. I'm disappointed by the lack of support throughout this game's history but at least it still lives.
  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    Still chugging along, getting the occasional new costume or bit of content. When the layoffs hit a little while back, they lost a few folks from Neverwinter, a couple from STO - and none from CO, because apparently it doesn't take that much to keep us going. We're still making more money than it costs to keep our server share running, and unlike some companies (>coughNCSoftcough<), PWE doesn't seem inclined to shut anything down so long as it's making at least a small profit.

    Jonsills still walks I see. Cryptic had layoffs? Please tell me the turtle still runs CM side.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Jonsills still walks I see. Cryptic had layoffs? Please tell me the turtle still runs CM side.
    TT actually got a promotion, but he still acts like our CM, because our CM is also CM for another PWE community that's apparently much more demanding than we are.

    And I've been here so long I went ahead and got the LTS, about a year and a half ago IIRC, so I wouldn't have to worry about renewing my sub. :smile: The extra character slots didn't hurt either...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    TT actually got a promotion, but he still acts like our CM, because our CM is also CM for another PWE community that's apparently much more demanding than we are.

    And I've been here so long I went ahead and got the LTS, about a year and a half ago IIRC, so I wouldn't have to worry about renewing my sub. :smile: The extra character slots didn't hurt either...

    I did the same a month before leaving. XD
  • biffsmackwellbiffsmackwell Posts: 4,739 Community Moderator
    edited May 2015
    Well.. That's bad. Unless by original you mean akinos, drannic, taco, etc, then that's bad. I like Cryptic North, they actually did stuff.

    Oh well. I'm disappointed by the lack of support throughout this game's history but at least it still lives.

    Arkayne is heading up the project now, and he's mentioned that they're starting off with some new costumes and they're planning new content.

    I wouldn't expect razzle-dazzle right away, but give them some time and I'm sure something cool will start happening.
    biffsig.jpg
  • blademaster5121blademaster5121 Posts: 956 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Arkayne is heading up the project now, and he's mentioned that they're starting off with some new costumes and they're planning new content.

    I wouldn't expect razzle-dazzle right away, but give them some time and I'm sure something cool will start happening.

    I had seen splosions said he is back-- wait wait arkayne be is back?? There may be hope for this game yet. I just wish they'd bring Tumerboy back to finish hideouts.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I just wish they'd bring Tumerboy back to finish hideouts.
    That would be cool, but currently they have him in STO, making space even more awesome than it really is (if you know what various astronomical structures look like, you can now identify which way galactic center is while in quadrant space - just look for the Sagittarius Arm of the Milky Way).
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Yeah. I will NEVER accept the premise that we'll never get significant improvement/new content, because its not something ANY of us actually CAN KNOW.

    We DON'T know. We can say "oh we don't think its likely" but none of us can say for sure whats going to happen with CO in the future.
    well, significant varies for people,what is significant for one player may be far too little for another. depends on what games set your expectations, for me actual new zones, even if smaller, and full power-sets, and new enemy groups and mechanics to consider something significant, others see individual powers, seasonal events and vehicles and are good. but with any business, certain trends emerge, things that make money get more money(sto in this case) and things that only subsist on the margins stay at subsistence level, or get shut down eventually. would love to be wrong. i was wrong about ffXIv being dead in the water after being taken down and relaunched, and that turned out really good. so hey, might be wrong here.
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Arkayne is heading up the project now, and he's mentioned that they're starting off with some new costumes and they're planning new content.

    I wouldn't expect razzle-dazzle right away, but give them some time and I'm sure something cool will start happening.

    O.-.o
    . . .
    HYPE!?

    deadman20 wrote: »
    hang_in_there__khajiit__by_galoogamelady-d5w5bcl.png

    Rescue's on the way! Maybe!

    Insert Zombie Kitty and you'd be warmer.
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • doktormarengodoktormarengo Posts: 52 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The games chugging along. I wouldn't expect any huge updates should you come back. We can never really know - but we can make a good assumption based on past experience.

    You can expect a few nifty costumes - an occasional (i.e rare) new bit of content - and some themed lockboxes that have have a nifty piece or two in them.

    But to paraphrase others - this game's glory days have come and gone.
    This is RiverOcean's 2nd Account. Can't combine my STO and CO accounts for some weird reason.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    Make up your mind bro. :rolleyes:


    You left out half of his sentence, the part that makes the point.



    But we can know the future of the game. To a degree at least. The game will keep running until it is no longer profitable for PWE to keep it going. It will continue to receive development in line with its revenue. Eventually it will cease to exist. Although this will be a sad day for some people, most won't even notice.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    The game will one day die. I can state this with certainty. It seems unlikely that it will be in less than a years' time; it may or may not be within the decade. All things end, however - this is the nature of entropy.

    I try to concern myself more with enjoying it now than with fretting about when it ends.
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    jonsills wrote: »
    The game will one day die. I can state this with certainty. It seems unlikely that it will be in less than a years' time; it may or may not be within the decade. All things end, however - this is the nature of entropy.

    I try to concern myself more with enjoying it now than with fretting about when it ends.
    you know, its funny that we say this, but that may not entirely need to be true. meridian 59 still is around, so is ultima online and eq1, and ashterons call is being transitioned into player run servers. final fantasy XI and guild wars 1 as well seems to be going into grandfathered perpetuity, so it seems like certain publishers like to kill their children(ncsoft, comes quickly to mind, for games that are not popular in korea) and others that have set aside ways to maintain a game long after its active years.

    now the snark in me would not that it would have been nice if co had had some active years first, but still, mortality is not always the fate of mmos. and some, like ashterons call 2 and dream of mirror online, even find a way to come back from the dead. and there is my favorite way of doing it, the phantasy star online/universe way where they are sill playable after the servers go down. I can still play the original dreamcast version if i so desired. no people, but frankly a game with an active forum is about as much interaction as i want with other players anyhow :tongue:

    and gradii, i do apologize, but i never played sto and only played nw for about a week and got bored, so i am unfamiliar with the updates, both games had a disconcerting lack of kicking people in the head.(and weirdly so ddi swordsman, how do you make a wuxia mmo and not have a unarmed style for female avatars?) :biggrin: my expectations were formed by swg and one other game, which i will not mention to avoid the co-forum haterstorm. but that is were i am seeing things from.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2015
    mbob69.jpg

    Eventually. There will be twilight for everything, CO included.

    The game has very small following now. However, as long as it is not generating losses, I think it will stay.

    So it's not going anywhere anytime soon.

    And more important, after having some success with STO and NW, if PWE and Cryptic wanted to get rid of CO then the game would be dead long time ago. Because I doubt CO survival would be really crucial for anyone upstairs.
  • sucrafma1sucrafma1 Posts: 48 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I wonder if they will ever actually finish with the Awakened Archtypes? I hope so. It would be nice to have a new powerset.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,770 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Good
    ||||||||||
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Hi old time lifer here, I quit for the last year or so but I'm curious to know the status of ol' Champs.

    Ryder Williams, is that you?
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    If anything, PWE is trying to build a library of MMOs to fueled by Zen and ARC, so it would be against their over-all plans to end any of their MMOs. At least there will be light content and costume pieces for a few years. I kinda wish the community would shut down the whiners and accept the state of things. It's not COX, it's probably not going to get a new zone or a foundry. The days of having 10+ instances of Millennium city are long gone. CO is not going to go away though and it can be a cool and groovy place if we stop giving into negativity. :biggrin:

    As far as art goes, I'm starting to realize that criticism antagonizes passion, so people should really consider the trade-off before replying to every DEV update with a list of grievances. But that's getting off-topic.

    Taking a defeatist attitude doesn't help anything. Players not giving feedback or reminding the devs of areas that need improving is not a good thing.
  • drmechanodrmechano Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Everything dies yes...but then there's things like Ultima Online.

    Technically the first MMO (that wasn't a MUD), opened it's doors waaaay back in 1997....

    ...and its still going to this day.

    It too does not have a massive following these days, probably on par with CO.

    An MMO that is over a decade old, coming up close to 20 years still running.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2015
    drmechano wrote: »
    Everything dies yes...but then there's things like Ultima Online.

    Technically the first MMO (that wasn't a MUD), opened it's doors waaaay back in 1997....

    ...and its still going to this day.

    It too does not have a massive following these days, probably on par with CO.

    An MMO that is over a decade old, coming up close to 20 years still running.

    Putting CO on pair with cult games like UO is, however, a wishful thinking.

    These games are no longer popular now, but they were really popular back in their days. And back then they were something good.

    CO is a game that never was really best at anything and never was AAA title, so its very survival is a miracle (or rather, its IP must be kept afloat).

    In the end CO is a fairly nondescript game with dressing dolls room attached and that's about it. It never rocked with story, never had huge population, and only worked moderately well with freeform until power creep and lack of balancing made it falling apart.

    Let's not pretend CO is some kind of niche cult game.
  • drmechanodrmechano Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    I know but Ultima Online isn't exactly thriving with population today, heck you ask anyone who started playing MMOs after the first WoW expansion pack and they've probably never heard of it.

    Well it is true that CO is a niche game, the superhero MMO market is now down to just two, us and DCUO (after the closure of CoH/CoV for some unexplained reason despite having more population than CO at the time and actually doing pretty well financially for a niche MMO). So it sort of does have a cult status, a small cult that is trying to awaken Cthulu from his slumber (and thus is doomed) but a cult none the less.

    Perfect World seem to be content to let MMOs just chug along (unlike NCsoft) so I doubt our immediate future is that bleak.

    Sure in five to ten years time it'll probably go but for now, we few, we brave few, we band of buggered have a place to call home that isn't ruled over by GMs/Community managers willing to troll livestreamers under the guise of 'enhancing the experience' (which DCUO does have, no, seriously, go look it up).
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2015
    drmechano wrote: »
    but a cult none the less.
    It's hard to call a game a "cult" one, when the most possible internet reaction about CO being closed would be like...

    "Champions Online was shut down? Never heard about this game before."

    Not sure if having any players, no matter how few, makes anything into a "cult" following.
    By this definition there are only cult games on the web.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It's hard to call a game a "cult" one, when the most possible internet reaction about CO being closed would be like...

    "Champions Online was shut down? Never heard about this game before."

    Not sure if having any players, no matter how few, makes anything into a "cult" following.
    By this definition there are only cult games on the web.

    Still even if that happened its still be a success . What would most likely be said in that event would be " Follow up to City Of Heroes sunsets after 6 years "

    No Cryptic MMO has even been a failure. Thats a good track record.

    Gotta love the monthly doom threads.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • rianfrostrianfrost Posts: 578 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    nepht wrote: »
    Still even if that happened its still be a success . What would most likely be said in that event would be " Follow up to City Of Heroes sunsets after 6 years "

    No Cryptic MMO has even been a failure. Thats a good track record.

    Gotta love the monthly doom threads.
    eh, define failure. none have shut down abruptly..but if we are talking realized potential...
  • draogndraogn Posts: 1,269 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    drmechano wrote: »
    Everything dies yes...but then there's things like Ultima Online.

    Technically the first MMO (that wasn't a MUD), opened it's doors waaaay back in 1997....

    ...and its still going to this day.

    It too does not have a massive following these days, probably on par with CO.

    An MMO that is over a decade old, coming up close to 20 years still running.


    Neverwinter for AOL came out in 1991 :)

    Though the oldest MMO would probably be Meridian 59, released in 1996, but not by much.

    MMO's rarely die completely, though some may as well be considered dead.
  • nephtnepht Posts: 6,883 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    rianfrost wrote: »
    eh, define failure. none have shut down abruptly..but if we are talking realized potential...

    Realized potential? Not trying to be being mean here but LOLWUT.

    Cryptic set out to make another silly day glow super hero game. Cryptic made another silly day glow super hero game.

    As much as I love this game much like the PnP game, its that, just a game. Nothing more. When ever CO ends I will still be playing Champions , the online version has only been a shall we call it a "side quest" at the most.

    Potential fully realized.
    nepht_siggy_v6_by_nepht-dbbz19n.jpg
    Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
    They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
    I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    It's hard to call a game a "cult" one, when the most possible internet reaction about CO being closed would be like...

    "Champions Online was shut down? Never heard about this game before."

    Not sure if having any players, no matter how few, makes anything into a "cult" following.
    By this definition there are only cult games on the web.

    Cult following doesn't necessarily involve a group of people dedicated to a well known or popular entertainment medium that's considered a cult classic like Blade Runner or Simpsons. It doesn't matter the if general internet populace might have never heard of CO before. If the game is under the triple-A mainstream radar but yet has a sizable audience, it can count as being a "cult" game.

    I think the following description from Wikipedia is pretty spot on:
    A cult following is a group of fans who are highly dedicated to a specific area of culture. A film, book, musical artist, television series or video game, among other things, will be said to have a cult following when it has a small but very passionate fanbase.

    Another one concerning cult video games:
    A cult video game is a video game that has maintained a dedicated cult following among gaming enthusiasts, although not meeting commercial success upon release.
  • gandalesgandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    rianfrost wrote: »
    i was wrong about ffXIv being dead in the water after being taken down and relaunched, and that turned out really good. so hey, might be wrong here.

    Interesting you mention ffxiv. I got into that game about 6 month ago after reading how that company did not give up on its game and remade it. They took responsability and I admire them for that.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    CO hardly needs to be "Remade".

    It needs some heavy work, but if we had halfway decent dev attention, it could easily be done in about 10 patches over time.

    And here's where I chime in with my pet theory that Foundry is so deeply embedded in newer versions of Cryptic Engine, they can't upgrade CO without implementing it, which we've been told on numerous occasions is a monumental task that would grind all other development to a halt.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    CO hardly needs to be "Remade".

    It needs some heavy work, but if we had halfway decent dev attention, it could easily be done in about 10 patches over time.

    At which point heavy work equals being remade?

    About 10 patches certainly would not be enough even if they were adressing only issues with known bugs.Unless they were very large patches.
  • bwdaresbwdares Posts: 1,517 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    CO hardly needs to be "Remade".

    It needs some heavy work, but if we had halfway decent dev attention, it could easily be done in about 10 patches over time.

    With it's spaghetti code, the best way to fix the game would be to remake it. Upgrade it to the new engine and get the foundry going. And be upfront about it. Tell the player base, hey we are going to do some heavy work on this game, probably going to take the majority of the next year, do not expect a lot from us int he mean time as we will be too busy fixing this horribly coded game and when we are back, you will have a better CO.

    Ahhh...one can dream.
    #Mechanon!(completed) #New Zones! #Foundry!
  • quasimojo1quasimojo1 Posts: 642 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    draogn wrote: »
    Neverwinter for AOL came out in 1991 :)

    Though the oldest MMO would probably be Meridian 59, released in 1996, but not by much.

    MMO's rarely die completely, though some may as well be considered dead.

    Some MMO history for those who might be interested in such things: MUD aka British Legends was the first commercial non-graphical multiplayer online RPG. Next came Island of Kesmai (1985ish), mostly text still, but some rudimentary graphics here and there. Kesmai was really the first "MMO company" to have a portfolio of different online games in different genres. They had the first fully graphical multiplayer online game as well, a WWII flight simulator called Air Warrior, which was quite revolutionary back in its day (1988ish). I have some first-hand knowledge about these as I was the "TrailTurtle" (online marketing manager) for them on CompuServe in the early 90's. (Don't get me wrong, Neverwinter was a big deal too, but it was far from first.) These games had nice ROI's back then, as most customers were paying $12/hour of play.

    Back to CO, I hate to burst anyone's bubble, but no one is going to make a huge new investment in a 6+ year old MMO that was not very successful and, by all accounts, has a poorly architected foundation. I've been a fan and supporter of the game, but at some point you have to face facts: this is basically as good as it's going to get. But, that doesn't mean that it can't continue to hobble along for a long time, if that's all you're looking for.
    LTS since 2009. Author of ACT parser module for CO. Founder of Rampagers. Resident curmudgeon.

    "Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    Who said anything about taking it down? Write the code for CO 2.0, while CO 1.6 here keeps on running. When 2.0 is ready, then take the one down and start the other running.

    Not that I'd expect that to happen, as it would be rather a massive capital investment, and without a likely ROI of greater than 1, the investment just isn't going to be there. Good thing I'm having fun playing v1.6...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

    - David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited May 2015
    "Only" engine update? A game engine is a foundation for everything, from graphics to physics to calculations. Updating a game engine equals basically writing a new game.
    Especially things like AI tends to be coded rather deep.
  • sistersiliconsistersilicon Posts: 1,687 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    The point is CO 1 could easily become "CO 2" with an engine update and added content + fixes.

    theres no need for a seperate CO2, CO2 is what you breathe out.

    And here's where I chime in again with my pet theory that Foundry is so deeply embedded in newer versions of Cryptic Engine, they can't upgrade CO without implementing it, which we've been told on numerous occasions is a monumental task that would grind all other development to a halt.

    If the engine upgrade was easier than that, you'd think they would have done it by now. They could have done it any time in the last 5 years STO has had a newer version, let alone NW or Dan Stahl's Super Secret Project #4, and yet it hasn't happened. A six-year-old MMO doesn't fall two (three?) major versions behind on its engine without a damn good reason. CO is on its own pre-Foundry branch and there it's going to stay and major upgrades to that version are not going to justify their development cost.
    "Only" engine update? A game engine is a foundation for everything, from graphics to physics to calculations. Updating a game engine equals basically writing a new game.
    Especially things like AI tends to be coded rather deep.

    Theoretically, Cryptic Engine should be upgradable without major surgery to an individual game's assets. Apparently, the difference between theory and practice is a user-generated content editor.
    Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
    They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
  • decorumfriendsdecorumfriends Posts: 2,798 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    gradii is offhand:

    The point is CO 1 could easily become "CO 2" with an engine update and added content + fixes.

    theres no need for a seperate CO2, CO2 is what you breathe out.

    I think you're being a little fast and loose with the word "easily" there, as meedacthunist notes.
    'Dec out

    QDSxNpT.png
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited May 2015
    rianfrost wrote: »
    eh, define failure.

    These forum discussions change even less than the game does uwu

    But just like the game, they remain entertaining.
This discussion has been closed.