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Impossible Mr. Gemini
nextnametaken
Posts: 2,212 Arc User
How many level 30 enemies are in this picture?
I count 54.
54 level 30 mobs and their boss versus a team of five with nobody over level 18.
[image removed - please remove character names, Super Groups, and status before reposting]
As you can imagine we wasted ten minutes trying to complete the alert.
Generally what would happen is, I'd heal someone, and pull like 4 or 5 guys off the stack and they'd **** me, then I'd come back to life and by the time I got back to Gemini again, someone or two died, then I'd heal and get ravaged again, because you know healing the person who does too little damage to pull aggro really makes the mobs mad and then I'd be dead again, repeat over and over until I taught the team how to quit the alert.
Champions Online: Socrates Button Activate.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
I count 54.
54 level 30 mobs and their boss versus a team of five with nobody over level 18.
[image removed - please remove character names, Super Groups, and status before reposting]
As you can imagine we wasted ten minutes trying to complete the alert.
Generally what would happen is, I'd heal someone, and pull like 4 or 5 guys off the stack and they'd **** me, then I'd come back to life and by the time I got back to Gemini again, someone or two died, then I'd heal and get ravaged again, because you know healing the person who does too little damage to pull aggro really makes the mobs mad and then I'd be dead again, repeat over and over until I taught the team how to quit the alert.
Champions Online: Socrates Button Activate.
This post has been edited to remove content which violates the PWE Community Rules and Policies -Smackwell
Post edited by nextnametaken on
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And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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If nobody has/use AoE attacks during the fight Gemini will keep spawning more clones
All-in-all I don't see a huge problem or issue here. This is what Mr. Gemini does. Nerfing that makes him even easier to defeat than he already is.
Well I see a problem.
My self heals automatically called mobs who had nothing to do with me towards me, of course the same thing happened anytime I tried to save someone. Meanwhile level 10,13,15,15, and 18 could not do more than half damage to Gemini.
Then when the whole team wiped, multiple times, he reset to 100% health.
If I didn't tell people how to leave they would be stuck in that no win, no reward, no fun situation until they log out.
This same kind of low level, no hope of winning, nonsense has been going on for two years or whenever they made level 10 grabs, the level 6 smashes finished in 2 minutes.
It's bad business.
I see it as a challenge, some alerts take a little strategy to beat. Sometimes it's just game over, you have failed...which i think make games fun.
The average level 10 player doesn't know how to win or even lose the alert gracefully.
There is no obvious exit back to the game world, if there isn't someone there that knows how to get back to the regular and is willing to tell the others, then they are stuck in a situation where logging out is there only way to end the alert.
That is like a shoe store forcing you on the street bare foot in the snow every time you don't fit into a shoe you try on.
Anyway, this happened to me once on my healer also. The trick is, don't heal. I leveled up my healer using a Become device for whenever healing wasn't needed or more DPS was needed. We beat a situation like this after two people had ditched out, so it's not impossible.
I know it's not the solution you're looking for.
I've never heard of anyone who couldn't beat him. Maybe you had the bad luck of the draw to be on a team of people who just didn't know what they were doing.
But at the levels you mentioned --- they should've known better by then. By level 18 a player should have some vague idea how to fight an alert boss.... especially if they've been using Alerts to level.
I honestly don't know what to say.. except one bad situation doesn't equal a game changing crisis.
Gemini is easy enough already.. and people want to make him even easier. Sure why not.. heck why bother to fight at all.. we should just enter alerts.. click on a box and get an XP reward.
Why is it when people tell stories they don't tell it right?
So let's open this bag of worms, hold on let's open it wider. Let's name and shame. (there's a history of that behaviour)
Dude, we as a group were all having the crap beaten out of us, including you.
Do you know what I was saying when I kept getting face palmed: "I thought we had a healer. where is the support?". The moment I hit with my 2gun mojo all mobs were on me and then blam dead!
Btw, I'm that lvl 18 toon 2000hp, lvl 10 gear, no AoE. - the one on your ignore list - keep me there. What's your ingame handle and we'll keep it mutual.
I don't lvl with alerts. I do missions and jump into alerts and I especially like Gemini cause of his multiplication power, rocks when you are not geared up AND a lowbie cause it's challenging.
The boss does stop spawning about 20mins into the alert if you are having fun enough to stick around - some players do.
The rest of the team didn't bail, the leftovers stood around and had a chat about it - without the rage.
It's not about making Gemini easier, it's about fixing a crappy broken alert system that is draining this player of games.
That is because you don't hear from any body who quits the game the first time they get stuck in an unwinnable alert, which has probably been thousands of players by now.
You waste twenty minutes on an alert? That's insanity.
I just did three in that time, that's 2000Q and 3 steps closer to another character slot.
Alerts were designed for fast leveling and quick resource gain, basically they are Help A Citizen Missions plus some street mobs, which is basically 2 minute mission or 4 minutes if you are solo.
First of all , face palmed is when you smack yourself in the face with your own hand.
I have one heal, that is also an attack, and if I used it pulled 3 guys off the stack at gemini and they blasted right through me in about 3 shots.
I suppose I could have just sat back for twenty minutes and watched you do your expert alert fighting.
How come you didn't heal and support?
Seven guys on one target.
Two people are attacking them, and not doing much to kill them really, they ignore them completely and continue to target the 'healer' whose not attacking anymore at all.
As you can see, zero aggro on the other three players, maybe that melee person punching Mr. Gemini in the pants is getting attention? Doesn't look like it.
Lightning girl, Fireball boy, and myself have already killed four or five of the clones,
But here we are just a few split hair seconds from the last picture and there's nine jerks attacking me, completely ignoring everyone else who is attacking them.
About half a minute later, after I and lightning girl die, followed by fireball boy, I run back to save gun girl and by the time she kills one of two big targets, the second attacker changes his mind to attack me, along with six other guys, half of them on the other side of Gemini, standing right next to the person punching him in the pants.
And again, eleven guys are targeting me, none are targeting pants punching person or useless fireball boy or ligntning girl. Gun girl was busy with two guys.
http://i.imgur.com/mFEjOCb.jpg
You just mind yer own **** and let rest handle themself how they can.
Too bad theres no Perk for defeating 5000 Mr. Gemini clones.
:biggrin:
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The odd thing is I don't think I've seen mr gemini make so many clones outside of stitch in time alerts.
Thank you to explain us how alerts work and why they are designed for, i suppose everyone in that thread is a newbie who knows nothing about this game (/ironic mode off)
Some people would say that leveling through alerts and chainkilling bosses like a wall street trader stacking subprimes desperatly would be insanity.
There are some people here who have different way of playing than yours, can you even conceive it?
Now in an alert i personally like challenges and beating the boss, whatever the time or effort it takes, except when it is blatantly impossible (perhaps it was the case here or not, i don't care it is not my point) . That is my subjective way of playing and i don't see why my way of enjoying the game is more insane than yours.
My point is calling people insane just because they have a way of playing different than yours pisses me off, maybe some people like capitalization of Q or Gs or pretend to complete the whole game and kill therakiel in like 2 minutes with the left hand while creating their next character with the right hand. Good for them. That does not impress me, and -on my behalf- *i* call it insane.
When people in harmon labs rush to warlord by teleport without caring about the rest of the team, *I* call it insane.
When people bail after 2.45 seconds in any alert because they don't kill fast enough the two first mobs and their prorata of kill per mob per second per questionite gained is waning, *I* call it insane.
When people think they have achieved something by leveling one toon to 40 per week because they are in a hurry of getting their next character slot, *I* call it insane.
And when i see the same people complaining about how lame are everybody around in alerts while wasting their times at standing in front of the PH using CO as an IRC channel and NOT doing anything but complain and talking crap in the zone, not only I call it insane, but it makes me cackle, alot.
All those views on "insanities" are mine and mine only and i am not forcing them on anybody, i would appreciate you would do the same. Your way of playing is not the best, it is just only *yours*.
You are aware that you can play a level 10 or 18 and still be an experienced player, right? Not everyone at those levels are newbies, sometimes you just have bad luck with a pickup group and sometimes good luck, sometimes you have AOE and sometimes not (as it appears there) and sometimes it is useful to complain and ignore people for no reason, and sometimes it is not.
Ah the joys of being a healer. You get all the blame any time anyone dies.
I let characters like yours die all the time while on my healer. I'm not being mean, just hear me out and remember this phrase: Dead Healers Can't Heal.
The problem is your lack of AoE. I remember specifically this one time where I was doing my healing duties but I kept dying over and over again. The problem was this guy who insisted on being the guy to pull every group of mobs, even when the rest of the team wasn't ready. He would go in and pull the mobs, but never used an AoE. The result is that he has damage aggro on one guy, and proximity aggro on six others. That proximity aggro counts for beans if any of his allies around him damages or heals anything. So as soon as I would heal him, all of the enemies, save for the one guy he was hitting, came after me.
At this point I have a choice to make. Keep healing the guy who's now only taking damage from one mob, or try to keep myself alive with six dudes beating on me. If I heal the guy, I'll last a couple seconds, then die. Dead Healers Can't Heal. If I heal myself, I keep getting aggro, and it becomes harder for anyone else to pull them off me. And then I usually die anyway. If I sit there and block and the rest of the team doesn't come in time, I'm just delaying my inevitable death.
So where's the support, you ask? Getting its butt kicked because the team can't hold aggro off of the adds.
I once heard a guy complaining about some selfish healer that wouldn't heal him, and just sat there and healed himself. I asked him if he was sure that was the case, and he said yeah, they're just a dumb, crappy healer. I told him that maybe he had mobs on him and was trying to keep himself alive. Dead Healers Can't Heal. He tells me nah, their health was full!
I told him that's absurd, nobody makes a healer to only heal himself. So I said I'll join him for a few alerts on my healer and see what the problem is. Third pull, so far everything is good, I'm healing junk left and right. But then I see the team go for the fourth pull, while I'm getting beat on pretty hard. I try to heal myself but the damage was too much. I die.
So I send him a message, telling him that I died because the third pull wasn't completely defeated. He said it's not his fault that I died. I asked him if he could see that I was still hurt before they pulled the fourth group. He says "It's not MY job to look at the health bars!"
Healers can't always do it all. If you want support, you gotta show them support as well.
This essay brought to you by the letter H.
Well, obviously with such reasoning, Living Healers Can't Heal either.Which contradicts slightly with this :
and this :
So i am not reallys sure to understand : do you let people die all the time as a healer or are you a selfless healer who keep dying in an heroic attempt to save your teammates?
Or maybe if i understand the rest of your post you don't heal people who are "stupid" enough to not have an AOE to pull away mobs from you?
Whereas i would agree with you that it is a team effort to A- protect the healer and B-not rush like an headless chicken in the next group of mobs before finishing the previous one, the fact to hierarchise who deserve to live or die depending of their aggro level seems kinda morally biased, subjectively speaking.
As i said earlier : everyone is entitled to play their toons as they like, including healers. Personally I would attempt to heal everybody in an alert, but that is just me, as a healer. Because for some reason Dead DPS can't DPS and Dead Tanks can't Tank, and Dead Group can't win the alert.
Exception (and once again i agree with you on this) for people who don't care about the rest of the group, being rude, take healing for granted, etc...
...or people who play healers who let people die because according them, they don't deserve to live. Like *yours*. I let them die all the time. Not being mean of course.
Well that right there says something about your mental health.
Nobody was even talking to you, take your medication, because you're starting to be paranoid and ramble about your insanity.
My way of playing alerts is the same exact way they were play tested on the test servers with the Devs in the alert teams, ie, the way they were designed to be played. Except halfway through the alert's lifetime they changed Grabs to XP alerts, and threw level 10s into them instead of the level 20s they were designed for and I don't think they ever bothered to test a bunch of sub level 20s fighting level 30 clone mobs. When I tested alerts on PTS, everyone, devs included, leveled to 40.
Well i don't know, who started to call someone insane because they like stay in an alert for like 20mn? I think it is you, no? :
Or did you forget take your medication?
Once again you are not the one to tell players how they should behave in an alert to please YOUR sense of ideal gameplay. I can even start a picnic in an alert if it damn pleases me.
And the fact you were not talking to me doesn't change the fact that your lecturing bothers me. And *i*am talking to *you* : if you don't want people interact or react with what you post, don't post.
This is another post like "oh look at all those stupid players who don't know what to do in an alert, except ME", plus displaying names of the characters, their level and with plenty of screenshots "evidences" to flatter your own ego. You have been overwhelmed by Gemini's clones... BIG DEAL.
I don't know if it was worth a whole post and a lot of screenshots and pointing fingers, for me it sounds like...insanity. So i decided to join the madness :biggrin:
Spending twenty minutes on a an alert affects 4 other players.
So if you want to have a picnic in the alert and prolong the repetitive button mashing while minimizing the rewards while wasting people's xp boosts and subscription time, you are trolling the alert, it's sociopathic.
Here let me define that for you so you don't go defining it four different ways again:
Sociopath definition, a person with a psychopathic personality whose behavior is antisocial, often criminal, and who lacks a sense of moral responsibility
Here's the right thing to do:
"This alert is unwinnable with this low level team, exit and pick up another Alert that's beatable"
That is what Cryptic should be doing before instancing these kinds of teams.
We've talked about it before but they prioritized vehicles over improved user experience and player retention has only suffered for it.
Living healers can heal. Living healers shouldn't commit suicide because a guy doesn't understand team dynamics.
I let people like that die. I don't just go around letting people die all willy-nilly.
How am I most useful to the team as a healer? By healing a guy who rushes in and gets me and himself killed, or by waiting until the entire group has gathered enough aggro on all the mobs before I start healing?
Suppose you were in that team, as well. Would you want me healing you, or dying with this guy every time he pulled?
People complain about healers because they don't understand how it works. I'm guessing he hasn't played a healer before, and doesn't understand that just by having a healer on the team doesn't mean that everyone gets free hp all the time with complete disregard of everything else.
One of my favorites was a guy who was really low level, decided it was his job to pull all sorts of aggro, and would die in a split second after pulling. Literally, I'd see his hp go from full, to half, to empty, within the span of one second. How am I supposed to heal that? And don't say hit him with a maintained heal before he attacks because we know how that ends up.
It's using good tactics, not a morality issue. People aren't dying in real life. Tell me, what's the benefit to healing this guy if he's doing this? I get to feel morally superior as a martyr or something? If the guy learns to hold back until someone else has taken the aggro, and he starts doing his single-target attacks, and he takes some damage, by all means, I'll heal him. If he's gonna guarantee that 2/5 of the team is going to die at every pull, I'm just going to do my part to make sure only 1/5 of the team dies instead. At the end of the day, I'm still minimizing casualties.
Dead DPS deserves to be dead because they don't do enough DPS to keep the healer out of trouble. In this scenario, whether I healed him or not, he was dead DPS anyway. Now, do you think it's gonna be a dead group if I go heal this guy and die on every pull, or if I let this guy die and keep healing the rest of the actual team?
Again, if we were on the same team with this guy, you'd be telling me to heal him instead of you? Because once I've made my decision to heal him, I can't heal anyone else because I'm busy trying not to die. If I keep healing him, I die. If I switch to heal you, I die because he dumped all his aggro on me. Either way you end up without a healer.
Another similar scenario is when one guy decides he can take on a new group of mobs while the rest of the team is still fighting a group. The guy gets out of my range, so I have to decide if I want to heal these three people, or him. I literally can't do both. He's getting his butt handed to him, but the rest of the team is also taking damage. If I go heal him, the three people who are sticking together might wipe. So who's more important here? If I let that guy die, are you also going to let me die if I get some aggro somewhere down the line? My choice to not heal isn't based on some vendetta. It comes down to how I can be more useful to the team.
Having a healer on an alert team is a total game-changer when you're pugging. It changes the failure rate by a LOT. I don't level on alerts anymore without bringing along a Become Celestial anymore because that one device can change a losing team that can't survive a pull without casualties to a winning team. (Likewise my healer always had a Become Lemurians Power Armor for when healing wasn't needed.)
All I'm saying is don't do stuff that gets your healer killed, and don't be like "You're a healer, where's my support" when you're not doing anything to help your healer help you. I wasn't trying to come down on the guy for saying that, but after playing a healer for the first time, it was a real eye-opener seeing what healers have to go through. And it's been my experience that it benefits everyone if you keep the healer alive.
I'm kind of on the fence with showing people where the exit button is. I've seen people leave alerts after they die once on the first pull. They jump to the conclusion that since they died, the whole team is gonna suck. This has the same effect sometimes as what you're against here; making the alert a lot longer. Especially when two people drop out but the rest of the team just wants to get it done.
On the other hand, if someone doesn't know about it, and they can't figure out how to leave the alert, they'll just log out instead and wait to be booted from it.
If the game would put lone queued players into existing alerts, I wouldn't mind it at all then, make a big huge exit button.
TL;DR - GG pack an AOE next time topkek requeue.
This thread has turned into something.
*looks to smackwell and then at title* Hmm.
Simply put healer got hurt and out of whack cause it didn't go the way he/she wanted.
I've been in that situation many a times with my own healer - I try to stick around for as long as I can. It's my 20mins and the time of the other players who also remain behind. If you're impatient then bail. Adaptability is a wonderful trait, it comes in handy in life.
And I try not to let anyone die as a healer / support for whatever your reasoning for not doing so, it's not being a healer. I do my best with what I have. I can also rage and post screenshots of healers/support who run off to attack, but you know what. It's a game with different players, play styles and I take that into consideration.
You do not know what are the stats of the toons in an alert with you in spite of what the lvl indicates. And as far as I'm aware a lvl 18 toon does not solo an alert - it is a team effort.
It pretty presumptions and elitist to believe we all play the way you like or you think.
This entire exchange smacks of primadona behaviour and I want no part of it.
This is not a FPS. Nor is the alert a solo event, posting pictures, crying I didn't do enough damage and while excusing the healer who doesn't heal as well. Pfft.
Welcome to the wonderful world of MeMeOnline.
Dead healers, can't heal and dead shooters can't shoot. Thanks for the story anyway :biggrin:
We already agreed on that, the very problem here is you take as granted what nextnamewastaken said as being the truth. Unfortunately, i know very well bazodee and i am teaming with him a lot and he told me an entire DIFFERENT version of what happened in this alert and that guy is far from being the poor helpless victim trying to heal everyone around while being beaten to crap.
Nextnamewastaken pretends everyone around had not enough dps to protect him but the truth is HE was not a good healer enough to keep people alive and whined from beginning to end that he was dying all the time ..duh...EVERYBODY was dying....things like that happens and it is nobody's fault...Except for the one who is sociopathic enough to start a Troll-thread to whine even more beyond the alert adding screenshots and characters names to transform the truth to make himself look good and responsible while calling other lame and newbie-ish.
Yes, by like that, once again you assume everyone in the alert is a crappy player-except the poor, poor Nextnamewastaken - and take what he says for being the truth. Now how would you call a healer who is not caring anough about his team and not good enough to heal them, then whine and blame others about it? Would you call him a player like that ?
Once again that NOT what happened in that alert, take into consideration what all the participants viewed and experienced before distributing labels like "good players" or "bad players", the first one who complains is not always the right one.
Yeah once again you assume about bazodee whereas A-you don't really know what happened and B- you never played with that player. Unfortunately i DO know what happened and i DO know that player, plus the fact he has played healers for quite a time now and saved more than once the whole team during Gravitar at his own expense (yeah a little bit more challenging than Gemini, right?) and he did not create whining posts because he died and nobody was strong enough to divert Gravitar from targeting him.
So yeah, i think he understands perfectly how healers work, unlike Nextnamewastaken who should apply to himself his own lecturing before pointing fingers.
Well i don't know, just say that to the creator of this post who devoted Insane amount of time to say how his life was miserable and utterly devastated, describing in every detail how the other bad bad players were ruining his "subscription time". Looks he was dying to me.
And Dead healers deserve to be dead if they can't heal enough the dps for the dps protect the healer. Quite logical no?
And again, i agree on all that. That is not the point, the point is that in THAT particular alert the culprit was not the dps : it was the healer. Now may you expand your demonstration to bad healers not doing their jobs and not protecting their team ?
To be fair to the thread author, he was just arguing that the alert is too hard for low levels. You're the one that brought you into it.
We have a different interpretation about that, i guess. From MY perspective i think he started like this :
Of course, OTHERS are doing too few damage while HE was the top-notch healer. Just notice how he forgets to mention that his healing was unefficient enough to keep ANYONE alive. Including him obviously, better pretend "oh the dps were doing too few damage". So easy.
But fortunately he was there to explain everybody how to leave the map. Our savior.
and :
Yes of course. And Gungirl/bazodee did not kill any (certainly because she was not bathed into his Aura of Alert Expertise of Majesty).
Whereas i have a different version where she killed more than one dozen with ricochet throw around this moment. Which triggered the aggro of all the mobs which reached for her and kept killing her (because she was not healed efficiently :biggrin:) And no, she was not facing ONLY two mobs. He just forgot to take a screenshot of that. And to mention that in his complaints. Unfortunate.
So manipulation of pictures is something quite common in propaganda. Just not fall into it. You may turn INSANE.
What I see: A group of low-level characters failing an alert, and one guy wondering why he isn't getting healed, and he himself said he had no AoE. I just pointed out what the problem is there, and it's a problem regardless of who's the healer or who the DPS is. He could have been a level 40 powerhouse with amazing single-target DPS, but if he isn't using AoE, the mobs are going to take out the healer, especially in a case like this where the team is streaming in one-by-one (I'm assuming) and not waiting to gather up because unless someone is fighting the boss, he'll reset.
I'm not making any judgment, good or bad, on either person on both sides of the story. As far as Bazodee, I just let him know why I would act the same way as Next, based on the info he gave me.
The way I read it, he lumped himself in with the low-levels and just laid out the truth. The DPS weren't getting the job done. That's not a low blow to the DPS, they're just low level, that's all. The fact is that a team of low-level characters, whether there's a healer or not, is probably going to fail this alert.
Considering anyone can have any name in the game, I don't see it as name-and-shame as long as the @handles are gone.
You're reading too much into what I say and taking it personally for no reason. I'm not bringing up anyone's playing ability into it. I'm not saying anyone was to blame and that Next deserves any pity. I wouldn't even blame the players for being low level, because you don't always end up with a sub-20 team in these alerts.
I don't think he doesn't care about the team. The problem is that it's a very difficult situation. If the healer heals (in this situation) he dies. I know because I've been in that very same situation. If the healer doesn't heal, he'll probably die anyway or just be useless by doing nothing. There is no good solution to this situation, other than regrouping (which might lead to a boss reset) and trying again.
If Bazodee didn't bring up the whole "I thought we had a healer, where's the support" thing, I wouldn't have commented on the tough situation that the healer has there. Simple as that.
Unless I skipped a post, you're the first to bring up good/bad players here. I never blamed Bazodee for not having an AoE, I just said that it's part of the reason he probably wasn't getting any heals.
The only thing I assumed is that maybe he hadn't played a healer. If he has, fine, that doesn't change the facts about the situation, does it? From what I gather from both sides, the team was low-level and lacked enough DPS to keep up with the replicating. If any of that is wrong, please let me know. My responses were all based on the information he supplied.
A little hyperbolic.
Man, this isn't even a chicken-egg scenario, it's game mechanics. A guy who has five mobs on him will lose four of those mobs to the healer if he's only hitting one of them. I'm not blaming the DPS for not having an AoE. I'm just saying that's part of the problem. Again, don't take it personally.
And here's the problem. You're pointing fingers at players, when the real issue is that low-level alert teams tend to generally not do well. You're complaining that everyone's unfairly blaming the DPS, but at the same time you're trying to put the blame on the healer. You seem to know the situation better than I do. You tell me what the healer should have done.
Remember, I only entered this conversation to give examples as to why a guy with no AoE can get the healer killed.
I find it hard to believe that anyone will recognize anyone else just based off the pictures. If you do feel like it's name-and-shame because of the screenshot of the party roster, I'll remove that until names and statuses are blurred, too.
You're the one putting the whole "top-notch healer" stuff into the conversation. The guy didn't mention his heals being good or bad. It seems like fact to me. Or are you saying that the DPS was doing enough damage, but for some reason the healer kept dying despite that fact?
How close did you guys come to defeating him, and after how long? I know I've been in some low-level groups against this guy and a couple people dropped and it ended up taking what felt like a half hour. While I generally don't advise people to leave alerts, and I try until other people have quit, making it impossible, I also don't like having Double XP time wasted. Some XP boosts? Yeah, fine, I don't care. But if I know I'm gonna spend half an hour on one alert while the clock is ticking, I'm not a happy camper.
Okay, let's suppose that did happen. Would the fight have gone any other way? Maybe he was trying to do some damage to take out some of the adds so they didn't pile up even further? Would it have helped more if he'd healed instead? My experience tells me no, but since I can't exactly place myself in the exact situation, I can't say for sure either way.
Anyway, I did experience once what next is talking about. It was when the alert team I was in had no AoE attacks at all. I had one AoE attack which was a melee frontal (The HW power, I forgot the name) but it couldn't keep up with the mob spawns because I had to frequently energy build inbetween. It didn't help that the team was made up of mostly low levels, myself being around 20 at the time.
Alright. What *I* see is the author in his FIRST post pointing fingers at "people not doing enough damage to pull aggro out of healer" whereas it was simply NOT the TRUTH : The truth is Next was NOWHERE near "gungirl" and was NOT healing her so she COULD NOT pull aggro away from him because he was simply not THERE. Hence the "where is the support?" question.
The whole thing proceeded from a FALSE description of what really happened. NOT the fact the group can't win the alert. Everybody agreed on that.
I am sorry to disagree with you here when you say :
It sounds very much you are taking sides here, because you are assuming that bazodee is the "player who rushes/doesn't care/has not enough dps to protect you, etc." ,
ergo you are making a bad judgement according my opinion, since you are specifically questioning HIS character, you were not generic, you were very specific.
Would you have told your former story in that other alert without saying "characters like YOURS" it would have been another story and your example would have been relevant, without being personally offfensive.
There you draw a parallel and a comparison assimilating bazodee to the headless/uncaring player you have met in that other alert and i find it not fair to be honest. Especially knowing now that the situation is not at all as Next described it.
And when you say :
You are as well making a moral judgement that bazodee is the unexperienced newbie and Next knows very well what he is talking about, whereas, according what i know from that alert, bazodee just wondered ONCE where was the healer because she was not receiving ANY healing, and Next complained CONSTANTLY "protect me protect me protect me" from start to end, whereas, as you said it, it was a no-win situation. So another bad judgement.
Well i find this a bit fallacious if you consider that some of those names are quite recognizable, especially paired with screenshots. Now you have removed the faulty screenshots and i thank you for that, and as far i am concerned, i am satisfied.
Now it is not the first time Next is pointing fingers and name-shaming people without reason. I will not be cruel enough to post here the link to what i am refering to, but as far i am concerned, i find this quite distasteful. (And no, once again i was not personally involved).
Posting screenshots to say "hey we had quite a hard time" is ok, but alluding false responsabilities and stretching the truth to say the least is not.
Maybe i would have passed it if that was just a single post with generic strategic considerations, but when i have seen like TWO pages of comments from everyone going like "oh well those newbies without aoe..*sigh*" or "level 10 players can't take gracefully defeat" and "those players you mention, they should know better by then" etc.
Making look everyone in the alert like a complete idiot naive newbie EXCEPT Next who put on the mantle of the poor experienced player surrounded by a group of frail little unexperienced kittens.
So who pointed fingers at players first?
I am not only talking about bazodee here, because i just know him IG, but maybe the other participants would have their say in the matter. I would be very interested to know about what THEY saw. And especially WHO complained FISRT and the MOST during the whole alert.
So eventually Bazodee and I decided to put the truth back to its track. Looks it was fruitful. Having at least two sides of the story is always a good reason.
Well once again it doesn't change the situation indeed. Because the situation was as i described on the beginning of this post. And, indeed bazodee was not making a big deal out of it until it degenerated into an whole newbie-bashing thread alluding him inclusively .
Once again from the start when he told me about it he was much more laughing at the whole affair than anything, until being put in question. The author of that post, however seemed eager to take this whole thing VERY seriously.
Bazodee in the alert said to the other participants they had the option to either quit or wait for 20mn for clones to fall down, and suddenly it became "Me, Next, indicated to those newbie players how to leave the map" then in this thread he was complaining repeatedly on "how waiting for 20 mn would take his precious subscription time" or " how it would ruin the xp boost" and basically acted like losing this alert was messing up with his xp/g/questionite ratio . Refers to his posts to see WHO is taking the whole case personally.
If he wants rant about alerts, he can go for it, but he cannot allude other players responsabilities into it-as you said , this can happen, and nobody made a big deal about losing this alert, except HIM.
Not create this thread.
No. You entered this conversation because you believed from the start what Next was saying was the truth. And you drew a parallel with an irresponsible behaviour and attributed it improperly to the "gun girl". But it is ok, we forgive you
As far we are concerned, facts have been restored and infamous pictures have been removed, and we thank you again for that. Case closed.
I get how frustrating the situation can be, I've been there myself once, but honestly? When you jump into an alert, you should be prepared that you may end up being the highest-levelled player in the team. Sometimes you'll have to carry the team. I'm not intentionally bashing on lower levels, but it happens now and then for me where I'm the one who has to tank the boss villain even when I'm not a tank build, just to keep the others from dying, who have already died and respawned multiple times until I've drawn and maintain aggro.
Other times you won't be able to carry the team enough and this sort of thing happens. Also on the flipside it's not entirely fair to put blame on others for not being to draw aggro away from you if they're simply not capable of doing it, especially if you've made a build that you know can potentially draw a huge amount of aggro, like being a healer for one.
Ao, Multiple Man and Jack Fool are the only ones I can think of where I'd have to hope to be lucky to be dumped into a capable team mixup, or make sure you have a build with the tools to deal with the factors that can make them hard to beat. If you don't want to have to deal with the possibility of being put in a less than favorable team combo, then simply wait for those alerts to rotate out.
First of all in the first few posts you have absolutely zero knowledge of where I was in respect to Subrosa, ie, gun girl during the alert.
Second, if gun girl was doing any damage worth the space she's takking, the mobs would have been attracted to her before being summoned nine at a time on to me.
Third, even when I'm not attacking, the people who are attacking the mobs are being ignored, ie, they are doing too little damage to pull any aggro.
Fourth, I demonstrated this low level, no aggro HACK of alerts two years ago by entering alerts at level 7 directly from the tutorial and never dying, never even being attacked, because why? Not enough damage for enemies to care about me, so I know perfectly well how completely useless level 10s are in alerts. Nobody was blaming anyone for not doing enough damage, that's just the way low level players are. If level 10 to 15 players could regularly beat level 30 enemies, we'd never have needed level 10 to 30 content.
Fifth, I'm not a healer, I have one single heal/attack, and that single heal/attack pulls more aggro than four other players going all out.
Sixth, nobody was talking to you Carbonifier, but here you on some kind of mad crusade to avenge your hurt honor.
Eighth, nobody was naming and shaming anything, you shame yourself.
My guess? Running back from just having died, perhaps. It seems like the boss and adds were killing players left and right and they were falling like dominoes. (This was the same in one of the ones I did) But the "not enough DPS" part, whether it was to kill the boss or take aggro off the healer, seems like that was precise, right?
Could the team beat the boss? It's my experience that a low level team can't, usually.
No, Bazodee is just a guy who had a bunch of mobs on him and if he were to be healed, the aggro would all go to the healer. Is this true or not?
His character had multiple mobs on him, and if someone were to heal him, the mobs would be attracted to, and would kill the healer. Is this true or not?
It's not bad judgment, it's just the way alerts go with low-level characters. Let's say there was no healer there at all. Would it have gone better?
Saying that I won't heal a character like that is like saying that if I'm a squishy DPS guy, I won't got all-out on a boss and rip aggro from the tank, and then start kiting the boss around and ruining all the melee people's time.
What's the benefit of me healing him? Let's walk through it again. He aggros 5 guys. I start healing him. Now he's fighting one guy and I'm fighting 4. By the time he's done with the first guy, he can try to pull another guy off me (just one, because now he has to match my heal aggro with his single-target attack, yeah?). How do you think this plays out? Meanwhile, if I'm still alive, Gemini is making more dupes. Who are the going to run to? The closest guy. If that's still him, I have 4 guys on me and he now has six. I heal him, and meanwhile I take a beating from six guys and rip aggro from another four. Guess who's dead? Everyone, because as soon as I die, he's going to get clobbered by all these dupes who he couldn't stand up to without my healing.
Tell me, where does this get us?
No. I won't heal a guy if he's the only one around and has no way of taking a whole group of mobs away from me while I heal him. Doesn't matter how Next described it, only the facts matter. A guy who inadvertently dumps all his aggro on me and makes me die because I tried to heal him is not worth healing. Whether Next was involved in the thing or not, I don't care.
He said he doesn't have AoE. I'm basing my decision off of that, and my personal experience in trying to heal a guy like that. I don't care if he's the best player in the world, his actual limitations in-game that he has no control over at that point is what makes me come to the decision.
Like I said, the best solution is to try and regroup the team. It can cause a boss reset, but at least the entire team is there to pick up adds. That group seems like it needed a plan, like designate one or two guys to killing adds as soon as they pop up. But this is kind of a hard thing to do during an alert.
I didn't say anyone was an inexperienced newbie. You're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say. Unless you can point to a single time that I commented on his particular play style or skill, you're just making things up. What I did comment on, for the nth time, is the situation and the level of the characters and the stated lack of AoE.
It seems quite a bit to me that the team did not have enough DPS to cope with Gemini. Hell, maybe if Next had a DPS character, things would have been different, right? But you can't fault someone for what character they have. Just like I never said it was Bazodee's fault for not having AoE. It was just part of the reason he wasn't being healed.
Nobody called any specific players out. Bazodee called himself out. Guess what, I didn't know it was him until he said it was!
A - AoE only came into consideration when he said he didn't have any.
B - The only way to take a "graceful defeat" in this kind of alert is to ditch out, which apparently Next helped people do. I can't think of another way, other than RPing with the bad guy before disconnecting or something, I dunno.
C - I personally didn't say any of these people should "know better."
No... the level numbers themselves spell out the fact that that team is going to have a rough time. Would you put that team together willingly and try to take out Ao'Qephoth? Come on, don't take this personally already.
Sure, but regardless of who complained and what the truth is, the alert was still viciously difficult for those levels, right? I think that was the point of the thread.
Again, at least from where I'm sitting, I'd never have known it was him until he raised his hand and laid it out for everyone.
If the character name was the biggest problem, the best solution would be to send me a private message to remove the image showing the name, if he thinks his character is that recognizable.
Wait, so first you say "But fortunately [Next] was there to explain everybody how to leave the map. Our savior," and now you say it was Bazodee that told them they had the option to quit?
Why put the blame on Next for showing others the door, shedding a dim light on it, then attribute the move to your buddy, making him look like a real helpful dude?
Nope, I shared my experience with Next. "Don't heal." Then Bazodee came in and let us know that he had no AoE, and I explained why "Don't heal." Doesn't matter if Next's account of things are true or not. Fact - Character levels were low across the board. Fact - Healing a guy that has proximity aggro will put all that aggro on you, and you'll take a larger beating than the guy doing damage to one other guy.
What Next said about who complained about heals or wiping or whatever is irrelevant.
I gave an example of a similar situation (two, actually) that explains why someone might not want to heal someone else.
I agree with all of this. PUGing alerts is a box of chocolates.
I've actually tanked a boss as my healer before, with a team of low-DPS people. I didn't yell at anyone, we got the thing done, good times were had.
Still, it's a game, and sometimes you lose. Adjust your expectations. That way, when something like this happens, instead of needing to analyze the alert in great depth, you can just chalk a rare mark into your loss column.
Whoever you are, be that person one hundred percent. Don't compromise on your identity.
Moving on is what I'm certain many players did after being stuck in a map and not knowing a way out or being in lowbie Alert team and feeling like raw meat instead of heroes.
I didn't throw my hands in the air and rage quit at the first sign of difficulty, I figured it out and kept on playing. People who are inclined to stick around are going to stick around.
I agree. The failure rate on these alerts is way lower these days anyway.
No one has quit this game because of Gemini, ever.
I could very much agree with this on the part of matching up builds. I seem to recall that Neverwinter does match up a variety of classes when queuing for dungeons and skirmishes. I imagine it's a little more difficult to do so on CO because Freeforms can be anything. Perhaps if we had it balance the team based on roles?
As to the original issue with Mr. Gemini... It all comes down to that the group queued lacked effective AoE to take out the clones as they get spawned. The trouble cascaded down from that and lead this topic into derailing arguments on who healers should heal (and I'm surprised nobody touched on how much more difficult it is to heal in Alerts since the team target hotkeys don't work on Teamup groups, just normal Teams).
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The problem is that the roles might not translate to what is actually expected from the players using those roles. The best example would be support, since players who make use of support passives aren't necessarily support builds in the traditional sense, like being healers.
Then there's the ambiguous hybrid role. I don't see how a role-matchmaking system could realistically determine just what kind of teams hybrids should be put in.
And if people can't be bothered to learn how to do simple things (like click on the Socrates icon located on the mini-map) --- I don't know what to say.
You can level up fast.. get effortless XP (alerts) .. and don't really need to repair or upgrade your gear.
The game isn't perfect.. it could use some serious love from the devs. But in general this is just about the most simplified and easy MMO around.