Make Sidekicks Permanent Already

crypticbuxom · February 2015

Make Sidekick devices last forever, double the Zen price of the ones in the Store, make them all Bind to Account on Equip, and retro fix all the ones that exist already in player inventories.

Instant boost in sales for virtually no effort.

NOTE: Lets keep this thread on topic to the current devices that are already in game. This isn't to discuss a system that requires man hours.

ealford1985 · February 2015

I would rather have a Sidekick system like the Nemesis missions. Make our own sidekick.

Note: Sorry. Thought this was a discussion thread and not a Suggestion, should probably be moved there

kallethen · February 2015

Or even take the Companions from NW and work that into here...

riverocean · February 2015

Yup. I agree Sidekicks are a missed sales opportunity. Make 'em permanent - and raise the price. Even better come up with a really nice support sidekick (healing, shields, and rez) and sell that one in the Zen store too.

STO already has permanent bridge officers you can buy. So why the equivalent in CO are temps, is beyond me.

crypticbuxom · February 2015

Lets keep this thread on topic to the current devices that are already in game.

decorumfriends · February 2015

While nice for players, from a business standpoint on their end...they'd have to be out of their minds.

crypticbuxom · February 2015

decorumfriends wrote: »

While nice for players, from a business standpoint on their end...they'd have to be out of their minds.

When was the last time you saw a store Sidekick being actively used in game?

Making a store item that just doesn't make noticeable sales more appealing to purchase doesn't hurt.

spinnytop · February 2015

crypticbuxom wrote: »

Lets keep this thread on topic to the current devices that are already in game.

Let's not. The current sidekicks suck, and would continue to suck even if they had longer durations.

For this concept to have any merit, it would require new sidekicks. Preferably ones with at least some level of customization, or at least a good variety of ones to choose from.

Last thing we want is a squad of 10 hairyjuku girls in every alert.

xydaxyda · February 2015

make the devices have no limit but limit the time that the sidekicks can be out to 60 seconds or so...and give them a 1 hour cooldown.

Unknown · February 2015

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Unknown · February 2015

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flyingfinn · February 2015

kallethen wrote: »

Or even take the Companions from NW and work that into here...

That was the system they were going to implement to CO. But they applied it to NW and dumbed it down on customing side to the same level as NW characters, because resources.
True Story.

And, on my side anyways they would make more cash with current ones as perma sidekicks. Because there are some great ones (Like R.O.D.) there that most of of my characters would use. Some even multiple ones. Current ones not so much.

meedacthunist · February 2015

For the time being just making Z-Store sidekicks permanent would be great. There are some of them attractive for me just because of character concepts, like R.O.D.
But they simply last for too short.

So... They are too weak and they are time-limited devices. There's no point in paying for sidekicks in their current shape. Only sidekicks I've ever saw were Harajuku twins (because they're coming with a costume unlock), Steelhead soldiers and Indy Kids (because the two last ones are free).

jaazaniah1 · February 2015

Hmm, since there's little point to using vehicles now (other than for speedy traveling and giving characters who don't have heals a heal for SC) I wonder if they might not take a real look at the sidekicks as a way to improve the flow of revenue. That could be the next new shiny that everyone wants. Two tier sidekick system. Best ones in lockboxes; less useful ones in the z-store :rolleyes:

spinnytop · February 2015

My suspicion being that sidekicks are terrible because they don't want to risk making us yet even more powerful and trivializing the content even further.

Now, utility sidekicks... like a sidekick who is tough and generates really good threat, but has terrible damage..... a healer sidekick.... a sidekick that throws around powerful crowd control at various mobs etc

pantagruel01 · February 2015

My suspicion is that sidekicks are terrible because Cryptic has never shown any evidence of understanding how their own game works, so they create stats that seem plausible and aren't because PCs are way more powerful than they were ever supposed to be.

kojirohellfire · February 2015

decorumfriends wrote: »

While nice for players, from a business standpoint on their end...they'd have to be out of their minds.

As pointed out, considering that they're poor sellers, keeping them as they are would actually prove Cryptic are out of their minds.

spinnytop · February 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

My suspicion is that sidekicks are terrible because Cryptic has never shown any evidence of understanding how their own game works, so they create stats that seem plausible and aren't because PCs are way more powerful than they were ever supposed to be.

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4645721&postcount=1

pantagruel01 · February 2015

spinnytop wrote: »

http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showpost.php?p=4645721&postcount=1

Oh, I agree with most of what's in that article (and I've done a bit of game design), but the thing is, power balancing is almost totally unrelated to coding. Knowing "someone can combine powers X, Y, and Z, and do OMGWTFBBQ damage" is a specialized job, and frequently surprises designers even on games that offer much less flexibility than CO. As far as I can tell, CO doesn't have a balance team, and they haven't done a major "balance" pass since some revamps back in 2010; unless it's epically broken, it just stays the way it is.

crypticbuxom · February 2015

Cooldown doesn't need to happen. Stats or effects don't need to change. Just make them permanent and bind to account on equip.

jonsills · February 2015

crypticbuxom wrote: »

Cooldown doesn't need to happen. Stats or effects don't need to change. Just make them permanent and bind to account on equip.

Cooldown does make sense - when Robin gets the stuffing knocked out of him, Batman has to work alone until the kid can get up again. (Usually that results in the villain thinking he's got the Bat dead to rights, until the kid sneaks up and clonks him in the back of the head with some convenient blunt object.)

nextnametaken · February 2015

Replace the useless pet system with Sidekicks from the player's character roster.
There's no point getting pets but plenty in rolling up new characters, especially if you can sidekick them.
Then sell sidekick items that summon from the roster.
A player could spend $25 for five devices and summon five of his characters at once.

Best game ever.

spinnytop · February 2015

nextnametaken wrote: »

Replace the useless pet system with Sidekicks from the player's character roster.
There's no point getting pets but plenty in rolling up new characters, especially if you can sidekick them.
Then sell sidekick items that summon from the roster.
A player could spend $25 for five devices and summon five of his characters at once.

Best game ever.

At which point raising the challenge level of the game is 100% justified. They can raise all enemy populations by five times, and even make them tougher, since every player will have a personal super group to fight them with. No "it doesn't fit my character" arguments can be applied either... anyone choosing to play a lone wolf... well, they're choosing to play a lone wolf and will suffer accordingly ~.^

xydaxyda · February 2015

I want timer for sidekicks only because I don't wanna see em loitering around rencenter taking up space and such... admittedly it is a pretty selfish reason.

skylyger · February 2015

nextnametaken wrote: »

Replace the useless pet system with Sidekicks from the player's character roster.
There's no point getting pets but plenty in rolling up new characters, especially if you can sidekick them.
Then sell sidekick items that summon from the roster.
A player could spend $25 for five devices and summon five of his characters at once.

Best game ever.

You can actually do this in Guild Wars 1. Not only does the game have NPC heroes. but there is an option one can buy to allow one to add their own characters to their personal list of heroes to join their party. Its actually one of the most praised features they ever added.

Although I left that game behind due to my anti NC Soft position since they killed CoH. I have nothing but fond memories of having an entire party of my own characters wandering around reveling in each others company.

For some of us roleplayers having other actual players is as needless in an MMO as it is on a classic single/co op game like the old baldurs gates and the like.

To quote Kirito of SOA Abridged. Some of my best friends have been NPC's

chaelk · February 2015

nextnametaken wrote: »

Replace the useless pet system with Sidekicks from the player's character roster.
There's no point getting pets but plenty in rolling up new characters, especially if you can sidekick them.
Then sell sidekick items that summon from the roster.
A player could spend $25 for five devices and summon five of his characters at once.

Best game ever.

while everyone is getting all enthusiastic, bucket of cold water time

1. which powers will your sidekicked characters have?
2. which attacks/rotations will they use?
Unless they all are AT's , you are looking at them being programmed to do a standard set of attacks, regardless of how you would play that character.
3. If you want them to play , how you would play them, you are looking at a LOT of programming time, making each one individual.

THink of the current sidekicks and think of how many individual attacks/actions they use.
Then convert your character to using only that many.

riverocean · February 2015

I think the OP just wanted to make an simple (and relatively easy) suggestion for the current sidekick system.

Right now no one uses them. Most of us suspect that's because they cost too much for a temporary device. By making them permanent and perhaps reducing the cooldown - they suddenly become more useful.

While having a new system to create and power your own companion would be awesome - it also sounds labor intensive.

Let's face facts. Anything labor intensive - has a much less chance of actually happening.

So the original suggestion of making relatively minor changes to the current sidekicks, suddenly makes them more valuable. If they do well - then perhaps Cryptic will make more of them to sell to us.

And that's really the name of the MMO game right now.

thatcursedwolf · February 2015

The only sidekick I've ever purchased was the Harajuku Twins for the minigun unlock.

I generally don't buy one use or limited time items with Zen. The lockbox loyalty card got me to actually open lockboxes (one per box type) as it's basically a round about way to get a costume piece with a small chance of a bonus.

If they were a permanent device I might consider for the ones it makes sense thematically for.

pantagruel01 · February 2015

chaelk wrote: »

3. If you want them to play , how you would play them, you are looking at a LOT of programming time, making each one individual.

That isn't necessarily true, there are power weighting schemes that can be used, but it's still a quite large programming task for results that are mediocre at best.

jonsills · February 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

That isn't necessarily true, there are power weighting schemes that can be used, but it's still a quite large programming task for results that are mediocre at best.

Yeah, my dream for a sidekick system would be something similar to the Nemesis system, where the Sidekick selects a predefined powerset and then you customize their appearance, but I'd settle for the C-store Sidekicks being permanent and without a timer. Like I said, the cooldown makes sense - not everyone can bounce right back up after being flattened by Thugs - but I don't want to pay Zen for my sidekick, then be restricted to playing them for a total of one hour, just like the free sidekick from chapter one of Whiteout.

nepht · February 2015

I would buy a perm sidekick. I hate those limited use ones >_>

spinnytop · February 2015

One question: Everyone who regularly runs Aftershock to get the free Until soldier sidekicks from that mission, raise your hand.

pantagruel01 · February 2015

spinnytop wrote: »

One question: Everyone who regularly runs Aftershock to get the free Until soldier sidekicks from that mission, raise your hand.

That would require a sidekick to be more useful than the time required to run that much of Aftershock.

spinnytop · February 2015

pantagruel01 wrote: »

That would require a sidekick to be more useful than the time required to run that much of Aftershock.

I like Aftershock tho.

xydaxyda · February 2015

I got stockpiles of the one from Whiteout that I barely ever use. In fact I have yet to run the timer out on any of the sidekicks I have picked up from events and such... probably because I hardly ever use them because they have a timer.

spinnytop · February 2015

xydaxyda wrote: »

I got stockpiles of the one from Whiteout that I barely ever use. In fact I have yet to run the timer out on any of the sidekicks I have picked up from events and such... probably because I hardly ever use them because they have a timer.

So you don't use them because they have a timer... because you're saving their amazing damage output for a special occasion?

xydaxyda · February 2015

Yes.

Wait, I mean no.

I have used them during tough fights to soak up a little of the damage...but yeah that is rarely necessary and I can't even say it works as well as I think it does.(like when trying to solo luther black, the warden, or mechanon with a squishy AT)

pantagruel01 · February 2015

From what I recall, they have damage output on a par with a controllable pet, and don't benefit from any pet master specs, which makes them... pretty underwhelming, even if I didn't have to deal with them timing out.

jonsills · February 2015

The Steelhead Soldier from Chapter 1 of Whiteout is easy enough to get, and comes in handy when you want to solo something but can't (one of my toons is having a hard time sealing that Qliphothic Tear in the mall, and when I get back to him I'll have to go get that sidekick for the occasion).

But C-Store sidekicks? I have to agree, they should never time out. I don't want to pay that much for something I can only use for an hour total.

alexofspades · March 2015

Let us copy a build and costume and use that as our "sidekick layout". The sidekick, however, will have no gear equipped (to decrease its stats). It has infinite charges. Deactivating it puts it in a 10 minutes cooldown. If it dies, it goes into a 30 minutes cooldown instead.

One per account. Golds get two. Additional ones may be acquired for 200 zen. Alternatively, you could get one per hideout (as in, each one needs a 'hideout' to live in).

spinnytop · March 2015

aurinkosi wrote: »

Let us copy a build and costume and use that as our "sidekick layout".

Personally I think archetypes is the route to go for sidekicks. Being able to pick a fire sidekick, or a mentalist sidekick, or a darkness sidekick is fine enough for customizing their powers. If we expect our already over-worked programmers to figure out acceptable AI routines for freeform sidekicks, we're also going to have to pony up some fairly large amounts of patience when it comes to waiting for the content... and that's generally in short supply around here ( we're totally patient! ... right up until we start crying that they've abandoned us and don't care about us anymore ).

Costume tailoring is a no-brainer, since that doesn't require AI - well, unless you consider that maybe they need to implement player AI to prevent all these fashion faux pas I see walking around rencen, oh hohohohohoho!

Make Sidekicks Permanent Already

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