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So...AoAC

stratluverstratluver Posts: 311 Arc User
edited February 2015 in Power Discussion
Let me first just say I'm not a build expert by any stretch. And with that...

I was bored and went on Test to see what AoAC can do for a build. I had previously been looking into a Rimefire build. So, I figured what the heck.

I had access to Justice gear, Vigilante's and rank 7's.

The build i settled into was a Dex/Int/Con. 288/344/214

I ended up with 30 sec cool downs on AD's and AO's (perma). 11 sec Rimefire. 9.9 sec Fire Snake. 2 sec Conviction (heal for 1426 non-crit). HP 10630. Offense 14%. Defense 58%. Crit Chance 36.5%. Crit Severity 109.1%.

In the Powerhouse this build was...wow. My best Rimefire was 9k but if I add the second hit they combine for 13K+. For me that seems good :redface:

Just thought this was fun to do. I'm sure in more capable hands this could be a very fun build.

I'd love to hear any thoughts from people more in the know.

Post edited by Unknown User on

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    pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Now, take that identical build, but replace AoAC with AoPM, and tell us the results...
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    stratluverstratluver Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    AoAC / AoPM

    HP 10630 / 11888
    Crit Chance 36.5%/37.8%
    Crit Severity 109.1%/111.5%
    Conviction 2@1426/2.2@1601
    AO & AD 30/33
    Fire Snake 9.9/11
    Rimefire 11/13

    Best combined damage 17k/19k

    Ran it through the Powerhouse...even more crazy.

    I guess my main thoughts trying this out were because I see, and do, the same builds over and over. I just wanted to see what something else looked like and performed. Obviously AoPM is the better choice but I don't think it's by much that I won't look into an AoAC build in the future :wink:. Just something different.

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    roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Aura of Arcane Clarity is just not quite good enough--certainly it can be made to perform with a heavy investment in your build--like Gradii.

    If it gave just a little bit better cost discount, or offered a little defense, or something a little bit more . . . then you would see it in game more frequently.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    gradii wrote: »
    I think AoAC should grant a good deal more charge speed reduction than it currently does.

    Yeah, CO hasn't really explored the potential of 'haste' effects that much. Its something that could make AoAC viable and more unique at the same time. I mean, it would make it more niche (builds w/ long-charge attacks), but having a solid niche is better than having no good niche at all.
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    kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    stratluver wrote: »
    AoAC / AoPR

    HP 10630 / 11888
    Crit Chance 36.5%/37.8%
    Crit Severity 109.1%/111.5%
    Conviction 2@1426/2.2@1601
    AO & AD 30/33
    Fire Snake 9.9/11
    Rimefire 11/13

    Best combined damage 17k/19k

    Ran it through the Powerhouse...even more crazy.

    I guess my main thoughts trying this out were because I see, and do, the same builds over and over. I just wanted to see what something else looked like and performed. Obviously AoPM is the better choice but I don't think it's by much that I won't look into an AoAC build in the future :wink:. Just something different.
    Just another thought to add to this mix...

    Looking at these numbers it definitely does look like AoPM shines brightest. I'd be curious though how the DPS compares between both. Ideally, one would hope to see that the reduced charge times would help an AoAC build attack faster and thus increse DPS.
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    stratluverstratluver Posts: 311 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Looking at these numbers it definitely does look like AoPM shines brightest. I'd be curious though how the DPS compares between both. Ideally, one would hope to see that the reduced charge times would help an AoAC build attack faster and thus increse DPS.

    I wish I knew how to do that :redface:. What I can tell you is that with AoPM my Rec/End were up which meant I could spam Avalanche over and over without stop. The poor Purple Gang just melted away. Versus AoAC, I had to watch my energy just a little in comparison.

    My gut tells me AoPM would just pull away and keep going.

    Another little tidbit, Ice Blast (AoPM) was hitting for 5k crits with Hard Frost advantage.

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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    stratluver wrote: »
    AoAC / AoPM

    HP 10630 / 11888
    Crit Chance 36.5%/37.8%
    Crit Severity 109.1%/111.5%
    Conviction 2@1426/2.2@1601
    AO & AD 30/33
    Fire Snake 9.9/11
    Rimefire 11/13

    Best combined damage 17k/19k

    Ran it through the Powerhouse...even more crazy.

    I guess my main thoughts trying this out were because I see, and do, the same builds over and over. I just wanted to see what something else looked like and performed. Obviously AoPM is the better choice but I don't think it's by much that I won't look into an AoAC build in the future :wink:. Just something different.

    How did the charge time reduction on AoAC effect the dps of charged powers in comparison to AoPM? Keep in mind that the charge time reduction scales with Presence.
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Just to get some more testing behind the comparisons- re-trained my Pres-heavy healer on the PTS to parse out all the diff passives in a more complete rotation:

    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&n=&d=1462fJHSYTK6300M000M103M503FA007G00J503M800ME04FG03EI0500000000000000002WIE438W0mTX

    (replace AoPM's slot w/ diff R3 passives for testing)

    Trying to account for the effects on charge and cd timers for this..

    Non-AoPM stats: 546 Pres, 135 Int, 90 Dex, 31 Con, 28 Rec, 15 Ego; 28.5% crit, 60% severity, 550-600 (17-19%) Offense.

    Rotation: MS, ES/NM, and Hex on cd, full-charge Eld Blast filler (usually came down to a 3x blast 1xHex 1xMS cycle).

    R3 AoPM 
    TYPE              DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS   AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All               05:16     740,431  703,671     2,340.17  681.17    5,022   1,087  0.36      16%    -5%      
Eldritch Blast    05:07     431,261  405,300     1,363.02  3,593.84  5,022   120    2.59      45%    -6%      
Mental Storm      05:16     235,734  217,758     745.05    346.67    491     680    0.57      0%     -8%      
Hex of Suffering  05:14     72,502   79,736      229.15    255.29    425     284    1.13      39%    9%       
Eldritch Bolts    03:56     934      877         2.95      311.33    321     3      118.00    100%   -6%
    Energy was easy- constantly at near-max or max.

    R3 AoED 
    TYPE              DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS   AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All               05:35     793,959  792,785     2,365.79  657.25    4,996   1,208  0.38      13%    0%       
Eldritch Blast    05:28     422,685  424,039     1,259.49  3,381.48  4,996   125    2.65      38%    0%       
Mental Storm      05:35     241,096  225,766     718.40    342.47    453     704    0.65      0%     -6%      
Hex of Suffering  05:31     79,448   87,258      236.73    268.41    391     296    1.15      39%    8%       
Ebon Lightning    05:21     49,876   54,865      148.62    639.44    714     78     4.23      0%     9%       
Eldritch Bolts    05:25     854      857         2.54      170.80    205     5      81.30     0%     0%
    Not really an ideal test for AoED, since the frequency of crit-enabled hits is pretty low w/ charged moves. Good to confirm that Ebon Lightning can't crit, though. Energy was bursty and just enough to fuel the build w/o other means.

    R3 AoAC 
    TYPE              DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS   AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All               05:28     709,704  702,175     2,160.44  580.30    4,434   1,223  0.40      13%    -1%      
Eldritch Blast    05:20     403,386  404,677     1,227.96  2,966.07  4,434   136    2.37      40%    0%       
Mental Storm      05:28     232,534  216,504     707.87    303.97    404     765    0.66      0%     -7%      
Hex of Suffering  05:26     72,892   80,099      221.89    229.22    363     318    1.08      33%    8%       
Eldritch Bolts    03:36     892      895         2.72      223.00    261     4      72.13     50%    0%
    Yeah.. eh. About 92% of the dps of AoPM and AoED here. Not bad, but not great compared to AoPM's wider benefits. Energy was in-between AoPM and AoED in levels.


    Going for a simpler build that's also Pres-based and spams one charged spell:
    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&n=&d=1462fJHSYTK6300F000F105FB00M5037F00LB03EI0500000000000000000000000000002WIE438W0ca1

    Conc isn't ideal w/ lower int, but the dmg diff between it and Manip stacks are only 2-3% passive dmg per, and I can't build Manip w/o adding more to the rotation than I'd like.

    Rotation: ES/NM on cd, otherwise just charge-spam Ego Blast while sitting in CoAP.
    Stats: same base as other build, but notably higher severity due to Merciless.

    R3 AoPM 
    TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:22     482,295  493,259     1,839.42  1,921.49  3,879   251   1.99      51%    2%       
Ego Blast    04:22     367,904  376,275     1,403.14  2,766.20  3,879   133   1.99      52%    2%       
Mind Opener  04:16     114,391  116,984     436.27    969.42    1,425   118   2.19      51%    2%

    R3 AoED 
    TYPE            DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All             04:36     505,709  555,934     1,827.64  1,590.28  3,824   318   1.40      37%    9%       
Ego Blast       04:36     362,594  395,875     1,310.42  2,589.96  3,824   140   1.99      46%    8%       
Mind Opener     04:32     107,975  117,882     390.22    922.86    1,394   117   2.35      44%    8%       
Ebon Lightning  04:34     35,140   42,177      127.00    576.07    652     61    4.58      0%     16%
    Again, not an ideal setup for AoED.

    R3 AoAC 
    TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:27     438,832  479,126     1,642.34  1,467.67  3,291   299   1.77      37%    8%       
Ego Blast    04:27     326,844  356,847     1,223.22  2,150.29  3,291   152   1.77      38%    8%       
Mind Opener  04:21     111,988  122,279     419.12    761.82    1,219   147   1.79      37%    8%
    ~89.5% of AoPM/AoED's result.

    And for fun: swapping to the Ranged dps role and taking Offensive passives, w/ no other changes..

    R3 Ego Form 
    TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:30     573,604  626,250     2,122.10  2,294.42  4,794   250   1.99      40%    8%       
Ego Blast    04:30     446,411  487,378     1,651.54  3,258.47  4,794   137   1.99      41%    8%       
Mind Opener  04:26     127,193  138,872     470.56    1,125.60  1,738   113   2.38      39%    8%

    R3 Quarry 
    TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:27     559,235  589,166     2,093.73  2,320.48  4,692   241   1.99      45%    5%       
Ego Blast    04:27     436,639  460,049     1,634.74  3,234.36  4,692   135   1.99      45%    5%       
Mind Opener  04:23     122,596  129,117     458.99    1,156.57  1,721   106   2.51      45%    5%

    R3 NW 
    TYPE         DURATION  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All          04:33     640,040  640,040     2,336.77  2,230.10  4,914   287   1.88      39%    0%       
Ego Blast    04:33     480,658  480,658     1,754.87  3,269.78  4,914   147   1.88      39%    0%       
Mind Opener  04:29     159,382  159,382     581.90    1,138.44  1,790   140   1.94      39%    0%

    Wtf, Night Warrior? I guess Detect Vuln and NW's -resist only work to 0% resist (DV at ~11% for these specs), but ya can see a nice result from getting some mileage from NW's -resist and slight charge time reduction.

    So yeah.. I wouldn't be jumping at the opportunity to use AoAC atm, but there's some promise there, I guess.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    *bows to the mighty flowcyto*

    My thanks. I figured AoPM and AoED would top out the DPS, but I am at least glad to see that AoAC wasn't horribly behind.
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    What was your charge reduction with that much presence?
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    What was your charge reduction with that much presence?

    At ~550 Pres, R3 AoAC was at 20% charge speed increase.

    I don't think that the charge speed bonus only scaling w/ Pres is intended for the self-version. It just seems too arbitrary and goes against what the tooltip states (just like other auras, Pres scales up the ally benefits, but the self-benefits all are listed as scaling w/ SS's- charge speed included). That, and Pres will never be an ideal dps stat as is.

    Other problem w/ AoAC- its bonuses are oddly skewed at this level:

    (cost discount / CDR / charge time)
    Hybrid-self: 36% / 36% / 20%
    Hybrid-ally: 29% / 29% / 13%

    Support-self: 32% / 32% / 18%
    Support-ally: 75% / 75% / 14%

    I mean, I know the ally benefit is supposed to be much stronger as Support vs. as Hybrid, but what the heck? The self-benefit only being ~half vs. for allies in Support doesn't make sense when compared to the other 3 aura passives w/ this same SS investment (790 in SSs total). Ex: AoED Hybrid-self vs. Support-ally = 69% vs. 78%, AoRP: 97% vs. 116%, AoPM: 72 vs. 95.

    I have a feeling that if AoAC's scaling was 'fixed' and more in line w/ the patterns of other auras, then it'd be a fine passive.
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Okay... just one more question from me. Could you do a comparison of no-passive vs AoAC, while spamming a charged power using full charges?
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    Sure. Using a simpler build and Exp Blaster, since it has a decent charge time (2 sec) and can stack/proc Manip w/ each use:

    http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=11&n=&d=1462QHSJTYK6300L0007303L503E900L800LB03000000000000000000000000000000002WID42c60CAT

    No Passive: 
    TYPE                  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS  AVERAGE   MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All                   239,059  260,993     960.08  2,490.20  1,833   3,480   96    2.62      38%    8%       
Experimental Blaster  239,059  260,993     960.08  2,490.20  1,833   3,480   96    2.62      38%    8%

    R3 AoAC: 
    TYPE                  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All                   253,555  276,826     1,059.57  2,414.81  1,835   3,523   105   2.30      33%    8%       
Experimental Blaster  253,555  276,826     1,059.57  2,414.81  1,835   3,523   105   2.30      33%    8%
    Crit rng is a bit low for this result, but its about a 10-12% dps increase over no passive.

    R3 AoPM: 
    TYPE                  DAMAGE   BASEDAMAGE  ENCDPS    AVERAGE   MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  CRIT%  RESIST%  
All                   286,408  292,931     1,152.08  3,014.82  2,211   4,213   95    2.64      41%    2%       
Experimental Blaster  286,408  292,931     1,152.08  3,014.82  2,211   4,213   95    2.64      41%    2%
    About a 20% dps increase over no passive, for AoPM.
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    That's wierd... a 20% reduced charge time, when only spamming a charged power, should net a straight 20% increase in dps

    Though oddly enough, the one giving the 20% increase is AoPM...

    Is it because you were having energy issues with AoAC and weren't able to spam charges back to back?
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    flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,742 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    spinnytop wrote: »
    That's wierd... a 20% reduced charge time, when only spamming a charged power, should net a straight 20% increase in dps

    Though oddly enough, the one giving the 20% increase is AoPM...

    Is it because you were having energy issues with AoAC and weren't able to spam charges back to back?

    Nah, no energy issues at all. Remember that its only affecting the charge time, not activation time or the small input delay from spamming one power.

    Its not going to be a 20% increase in dps unless it affects all cast times evenly. Here its more like a 12-13% overall speed increase if you count total cast time (which is close to the ~10% dps increase result I got; the remaining 2-3% gap is likely due to the AoAC test having 5% less overall crit by random chance).
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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    spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited February 2015
    More like Aura of Does Everything Better Than All The Other Auras >:|
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