Tank/Leveling Build [Heavy Weapons] would appreciate input

Comments

• flowcyto Posts: 12,851 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  I'd consider swapping Con PSS for Str PSS, since the latter has better dps, better defense, and still saves energy costs via Physical Peak. Swapping to Defiance can solve most/all energy issues; else, ya can get some more Int to help power MSA further if ya want to keep Invuln (ie. using a STR/Con/Int SS setup). Can always gear some Rec on the side for equilibrium w/o SSing it.
  
  Support Drones are giving ya an energy penalty when they're out, and they can die pretty easily trying to heal you in melee w/ all the AoE they can be hit by. I'd consider dropping them if its not a problem for the theme. Conviction can also be better for energy return than Bionic Shielding, since the former can trigger MSA (though either heal is fine).
  
  Lock N Load could be replaced w/ Aggressor, or Ego Surge w/ Nimble Mind for better burst dps. Could also consider adding Arc of Ruin for its special ad debuff, and it can apply CS instead of Brimstone on single targets.
  
  Specs could be the usual Warden + Vindicator, for a combo of high dps/threat and good defense. Protector could also work if ya want to trade some dps/threat and defense for Bulwark and the Active Defense cd reduction.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

  0
• carrionbaggage Posts: 729 Community Moderator

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  In addition to Flow's suggestions (all good ones, as always)...
  
  Adding Decimate so frequently in your attack rotation will noticeably lower your damage output. If you feel you need a source of Crippling Challenge and a short cooldown for MSA, I would recommend squeezing in Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge) and using it every few seconds in-between Annihilate spam.

  0
• morigosa Posts: 710 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  Alternatively, if you want a lunge, I'd suggest Pounce, since it has knockdown - a good start to a heavy weapons attack sequence is pounce, eruption, brimstone - and that's three stacks of knockback resistance on your main target and you can open up with annihilate without sending your target flying like a golf ball.
  
  (Unless, of course, one of your allies has Skarn's Bane, in which case it'll strip knockback resistance from your enemies and you're pretty much just out of luck.)

  0
• insaneyack Posts: 51 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  [Edit: Saw morigosa's suggestion after I posted. I could remove unbreakable and replace it with pounce. I do hate knock back, thats why spamming brimstone is so nice. Thanks for the suggestion!]
  
  Thank you flowcyto and carrionbaggage.
  
  I changed the build based on the suggestions you both made. Aafter reading through Flowcyto's themed tank link I selected the advantages based on what I found there. I was surprised that FlowCyto does not typically select full defense advantages but instead appears to put 2 points into them, like with strength's [Juggernaut] and Warden's [Fortified Gear]. I was wondering why that was? I am not arguing for or against that choice, I just want to understand the decision.
  
  I looked at flowcyto's suggested Heavy Weapon themed tank:
  http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=10&n=&d=1134WbAMBPE61F0H000G10JG209I900GC047G00J503GE0J9P01G601QG01G90K000000001rWG3SXU3UbT
  
  I believe the primary difference between my new spec and Flowcyto's suggested spec is [Cleave] and the adjustments in warden and mastery of warden for advantages.
  
  I was wondering, would [Cleave] be better than [Annihilate] for single target agro? I don't really care which of the two I choose, I would just like to make sure I can get and maintain agro.
  
  A few other questions about Flowcyto's Heavy Weapons build:
  Flowcyto uses a range energy builder, is this preferable to a melee energy builder? I think from the theme stand point I would rather keep the melee energy builder, but I could switch it to boomerang if ranged energy builders offer any significant benefits.
  
  Flowcyto includes [Resurgence] where I have [Masterful Dodge], which is better?
  
  Last note, it seems that Block is only ranked once in most of Flowcyto's builds, I had read that I should double rank it, is this not true?
  
  Here is the new build with the adjustments:
  
  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name: Demolition
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Strength (Primary)
  Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
  Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Devastator
  Level 6: Mighty
  Level 9: Enduring
  Level 12: Quick Recovery
  Level 15: Relentless
  Level 18: Physical Conditioning
  Level 21: Covert Ops Training
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Bludgeon
  Level 1: Guard (Rank 2)
  Level 6: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
  Level 8: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
  Level 14: Brimstone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
  Level 17: Defiance
  Level 20: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 26: Arc of Ruin (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
  Level 29: Masterful Dodge
  Level 32: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Unbreakable (Rank 2)
  Level 38: Aggressor
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Lightning Flash (Rank 2)
  
  Specializations:
  Strength: Swole (2/3)
  Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
  Strength: Brutality (2/2)
  Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
  Strength: Overpower (1/3)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
  Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
  Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

  0
• flowcyto Posts: 12,851 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  insaneyack wrote: »

  -snip-

  Ur answer for most of this those questions aimed at me: at some point its all subjective, comes down to choosing between various good_viable options, and ur seeing my personal prefs (since its my document, after all). There are numerous ways to build even a powerset-focused tank; I am offering just 1-2 templates for each for brevity.
  
  If ya want to change some of them around- go right ahead. I already discussed in the guide that one should feel free to alter any builds to their taste. Ex: I usually pick Resurgence + 1 other AD over MD + Unbreakable cause I prefer not use use the latter AD rotation for most of my tanks, nor find it appropriate. But, if one wanted to take them to better min-max their tank build regardless of theme, then be my guest. On the flipside, I prefer to not have a melee end builder cause I find them annoying w/ the way the game's targeting system works- that's not directly tied to theme but just to my prefs.
  
  Also, most of the templates I listed are not full builds and have some free adv points, so if ya see something that ya want to rank more, or you want change around the ranks, then go ahead. If I put something at R2 w/ free adv points left, its likely cause I deemed it as a good option, but not the highest priority to fully rank.
  
  Lastly: Either Cleave or Annihilate can work w/ a HW tank. Ya can even combine them via Brawler's Setup, though that makes the build more dps-focused and lower on Defense. I'd stick to Annihilate if ya like the feel of the attack more. Regardless, the main diff between Cleave and Annihilate is whether ya pickup the combo-related boosts in Warden not.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

  0
• insaneyack Posts: 51 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  I appreciate your responses Flowcyto! For the record, I am finding that your personal preferences end up paying off more than they should. It is really not fair, I think you were genetically engineered to master Champions Online.
  
  About me: I have been a very casual CO player having pre-purchased the life time subscription while the game was being developed. I got my first 40 about 3 months ago (Very casual). It was a tank, and I have reset his powers and stats more times than Britney Spears has gone to rehab. Only 2 months ago did I discover that I could buy gear from the questionite store that leveled up with my toons. The toon I am working on now has full armadillo gear which has made keeping my gear up to date super easy, I should be 40 really soon...
  
  I realize I am ignorant about allot of Champions mechanics and game play. It's only fair that you be warned, I really don't know what color the red fire truck is. Kinda sucks being this stupid, but I appreciate you Flowcyto for taking the time to educate me.
  
  My defense power experience prior to reading Flowcyto's guide: Using my level 40(now) might tank I tested out several defenses in the battle station, team of 5, hard difficulty with str/con/rec gear. I found that defiance let too much damage through, regeneration didn't heal fast enough, lightening reflexes were almost as bad as regeneration but without the healing component and that Invulnerability was the only viable defense. A month ago I read that defiance is better for hard hitting bosses, and logically that makes sense. However, only recently, having looked at Flowcyto's various guides (I swear it is like being a fat kid in a candy store), I discovered that ightening reflexes is freaking awesome. Flowcyto's spec http://powerhouse.nullware.com/powerhouse.html?v=10&n=&d=1324eABMPET61F07200A10JDG0GA703A600DL057G00AH05DM00AB04AF03QG01000000000d7u3SXU2MGB for Dual Blades opened my eyes to the possibility that everything I thought I knew, just might be more wrong than Liberace at a topless bar.
  
  I have a level 32 camped out in the power house, geared in a full set of the samurai guestionite gear (Yeah I know I should have bought the 3 armadillo secondaries, color me stupid). I was able to load up that full spec, and HOLY COW, I ended every test fight with full health and no endurance issues. Everything melted like butter. I couldn't follow the guide exactly, because of the gear requirements, but HOLY COW MAN. I really couldn't understand why Flowcyto picked certain talents, I always thought you wanted to focus on your primary and secondary super stats, but some how... beyond my meager understanding, that build was fun, and effective.
  
  My character concept is a goblin in a construction outfit wielding a Giant Wrench. Dual blades still allows me to use wrenches, just not the really big one, and parry doesn't block with a giant wrench, but who cares? I don't die in alerts even when the battles take 10 hours to complete, I just kick back, heal and KEEP all the agro to myself. I made some VERY minor changes to the build, I changed the energy builder to Rain of Steel, and smoke lunge to Eruptions (Got my Big Wrench Here![Based on carrionbaggage's direction]). Otherwise I followed the directions exactly (minus the gear suggestions but I will change that once I hit 40).
  
  Sorry for being long winded, I was excited to report how awesome Flowcyto's builds are. I actually can't wait to hit 40 so I can start making a fleet of 40 tanks. Unfortunately I am going to go broke buying cosmic keys for the legionnaire gear...
  
  On a side note, Flowcyto, are all of your builds as survivable as the Dual Blades build? I cant seem to survive when I choose defiance/conviction, maybe it gets easier once you're higher level? Last note.. Thanks Flowcyto for making that guide! You = awesome.
  
  [Edit: Clarified the paragraph where I talked about my testing of various defense powers]

  0
• flowcyto Posts: 12,851 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  Well, thanks for the detailed feedback. Its a bit much, but I appreciate it :x
  
  In terms of comparing the defensive passives- generally they all can be used to make sturdy tank builds. What matters as much (or arguably more) than the passive is the defensive powers, heals, gear, and stats you pick. I could go into detail about each, but I feel its easier to say that even the weakest of them (PFF) can still have strong tank builds avail.
  
  For my themed builds, I wasn't focused on optimizing the builds fully, since that often comes w/ destroying a good bit of the theme (that and it would get repetitive offering nearly the same backbone for each powerset- I wanted to show off some variety overall). I tried to keep the defensive powers at least somewhat thematic- so I may not always choose the best one for mitigation or w/e, but whichever one I pick I usually try to support it appropriately (ex. taking field surge and a good block enhancer for PFF, BCR/RR and dodge-related stuff for LR builds, using Defiance for energy-hog builds, etc). Ofc, not all the passives are equal, and some are gen better for leveling (ex. Regen for solo, Invuln for solo or Alert trash) while others are more like late-bloomers (ex. many Defiance builds, some LR builds that get dodge boosting options later on), but by lvl 40 they all should be solid enough for most content.
  
  As a general rule, if you include least one reg heal (conviction, BCR, bionic shielding, or DE for melee), at least one AD (pref MD or R3 Unbreakable if only taking one), a good block enhancer, 1-2 powers w/ CripC/CS, and Con as a SS somewhere then ur generally gtg for most content by lvl 40 as a tank (assuming ur gear is rel up-to-date).
  
  If ya want more advice, its probably better to point to specific builds ya have (or prospective ones) and we can groom over them here if ya want to optimize them more. Better to do it that way than to continue throw out vague general advice, imo :x

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

  0
• insaneyack Posts: 51 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  Hello, Sorry I was away taking advantage of that double experience weekend.
  
  From Flowcyto's response I believe I will respec my character at 40. I will use Flowcyto's heavy weapons build for the basis of my character. I grabbed Decimate and Aggressor, decimate to move around quickly and pull down flying idiots, and aggressor to pop just before I attack the boss because it seems that many range DPSer like to lead off with a boost to damage when attacking the boss. Here is the build:
  
  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name: Demolition
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Strength (Primary)
  Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
  Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Devastator
  Level 6: Covert Ops Training
  Level 9: Physical Conditioning
  Level 12: Healthy Mind
  Level 15: Body and Mind
  Level 18: Quick Recovery
  Level 21: Relentless
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Bludgeon
  Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
  Level 6: Eruption (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
  Level 8: Defiance
  Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
  Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 17: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 20: Brimstone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
  Level 23: Unbreakable (Rank 2)
  Level 26: Guard (Rank 2)
  Level 29: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 32: Arc of Ruin (No Quarter, Challenging Strikes)
  Level 35: Decimate (Nailed to the Ground)
  Level 38: Aggressor
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Swinging
  
  Specializations:
  Strength: Swole (3/3)
  Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
  Strength: Brutality (2/2)
  Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
  Strength: Overpower (1/3)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
  Warden: Slaughter (3/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
  Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
  Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

  0
• flowcyto Posts: 12,851 Arc User

  February 2015 edited February 2015

  Looks pretty good overall. Hope ya have fun w/ the build 8)

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

  0