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spinnytop
Posts: 16,450 Arc User
New Players, Quest Derailment, And How To Solve It
So let's talk about new players and their experience with quest progression. We're talking about someone who had to go through the tutorial, meaning they do get a mission that leads them to defender, who then branches them off to literally every other quest in the game in standard MMO fashion. They just spent the whole tutorial using the quest tracker to figure out where to go next, so naturally that's what new players would continue to follow. I think the one thing that derails them is their first Alert, after which they say "Wow that was hella fun, and check out all this xp!", which naturally motivates them to que again, and again, and again. When they go back to check their missions, they realize they're several levels past them. So now what? Now they actually have to figure out where to get quests their level.
They have two resources at this point: (1) the crime computer, (2) run around and look.
(2) is likely to lead to frustration and boredom, at which point the player goes back to alerts.
(1) the crime computer is about as crippled a resource as one could imagine. First, they don't really make a big deal about it. Second, it's not particularly interesting to look it; it looks like an accountant designed the interface, except that all the accountants I know would have put some thought into making the information it has a bit easier to digest; even now I find it overwhelming and lacking in organizational ques.
The crime computer needs a complete overhaul.
- First off, give it an interface that makes it look and feel like the player is actually interacting with some sort of crime computer. If something looks neat and gets the player immersed then they're more likely to use it; kids play with toys because they're colorful and make fun noises, apply this simple concept to the crime computer. Make it go beep and boop, give it a cool screen with buttons, etc...
- Second, make the crime computer as in-your-face as the alert buttons are. Give it a visible and interesting button (something that looks like a computer). Make this button pester the player to use it at times when it is logical to do so. For example, if a player has no quests, or only has gray quests in their log, then have it start flashing. Players will click on things that are flashing, it's just in their nature. Baby likes to push buttons, give baby a button to push!
- Third, make the information the crime computer provides concise and easy to digest. Instead of just a list of NPC and mission names, show a portrait of the NPC, show which zone they're in, then list under them a description of what they need help with (not a list of mission names, an actual description). Also, narrow down the level range of missions shown; same level, and slightly lower and higher only. Less is more. Only start increasing that range if the player has somehow exhausted all missions in their current range.
- Fourth, allow the crime computer to teleport players to the quest npc. Make it as convenient as possible for them to get out of M-City and get right to that other zone.
- Fifth, add information on rewards to the interface. For example when clicking on a mission, show the rewards right there. Also, have part of the interface give information on Recognition rewards; tell the player what sort of recognition a given mission's level range is going to drop, and what rewards can be gotten from that recognition (on another tab from the missions of course, keep everything nicely separated and clean). There are some pretty neat rewards that come from missions, but those rewards can't draw players to the mission if they don't even know they exist. By showing the rewards already in the mission computer and doing so quickly and simply, it gets the player interested in actually going there.
The main issue keeping new players from heading to other zones, and from doing missions in general, is both that the information on where they could be isn't being fed to them effectively, and because Grab alerts have a tendency of derailing a player's progression through the mission hierarchy. Use the crime computer to alert players to what they can be doing, tell them what they would be doing, what they can gain from it, and get them there asap so they can get back on track, and make sure that the crime computer doesn't wait for the player to check it out, make it demand their attention.
And no you can't charge us for it.
So let's talk about new players and their experience with quest progression. We're talking about someone who had to go through the tutorial, meaning they do get a mission that leads them to defender, who then branches them off to literally every other quest in the game in standard MMO fashion. They just spent the whole tutorial using the quest tracker to figure out where to go next, so naturally that's what new players would continue to follow. I think the one thing that derails them is their first Alert, after which they say "Wow that was hella fun, and check out all this xp!", which naturally motivates them to que again, and again, and again. When they go back to check their missions, they realize they're several levels past them. So now what? Now they actually have to figure out where to get quests their level.
They have two resources at this point: (1) the crime computer, (2) run around and look.
(2) is likely to lead to frustration and boredom, at which point the player goes back to alerts.
(1) the crime computer is about as crippled a resource as one could imagine. First, they don't really make a big deal about it. Second, it's not particularly interesting to look it; it looks like an accountant designed the interface, except that all the accountants I know would have put some thought into making the information it has a bit easier to digest; even now I find it overwhelming and lacking in organizational ques.
The crime computer needs a complete overhaul.
- First off, give it an interface that makes it look and feel like the player is actually interacting with some sort of crime computer. If something looks neat and gets the player immersed then they're more likely to use it; kids play with toys because they're colorful and make fun noises, apply this simple concept to the crime computer. Make it go beep and boop, give it a cool screen with buttons, etc...
- Second, make the crime computer as in-your-face as the alert buttons are. Give it a visible and interesting button (something that looks like a computer). Make this button pester the player to use it at times when it is logical to do so. For example, if a player has no quests, or only has gray quests in their log, then have it start flashing. Players will click on things that are flashing, it's just in their nature. Baby likes to push buttons, give baby a button to push!
- Third, make the information the crime computer provides concise and easy to digest. Instead of just a list of NPC and mission names, show a portrait of the NPC, show which zone they're in, then list under them a description of what they need help with (not a list of mission names, an actual description). Also, narrow down the level range of missions shown; same level, and slightly lower and higher only. Less is more. Only start increasing that range if the player has somehow exhausted all missions in their current range.
- Fourth, allow the crime computer to teleport players to the quest npc. Make it as convenient as possible for them to get out of M-City and get right to that other zone.
- Fifth, add information on rewards to the interface. For example when clicking on a mission, show the rewards right there. Also, have part of the interface give information on Recognition rewards; tell the player what sort of recognition a given mission's level range is going to drop, and what rewards can be gotten from that recognition (on another tab from the missions of course, keep everything nicely separated and clean). There are some pretty neat rewards that come from missions, but those rewards can't draw players to the mission if they don't even know they exist. By showing the rewards already in the mission computer and doing so quickly and simply, it gets the player interested in actually going there.
The main issue keeping new players from heading to other zones, and from doing missions in general, is both that the information on where they could be isn't being fed to them effectively, and because Grab alerts have a tendency of derailing a player's progression through the mission hierarchy. Use the crime computer to alert players to what they can be doing, tell them what they would be doing, what they can gain from it, and get them there asap so they can get back on track, and make sure that the crime computer doesn't wait for the player to check it out, make it demand their attention.
And no you can't charge us for it.
Post edited by spinnytop on
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I don't need to scroll through Canada and Monster Island missions to find Millennium City missions like Fatal Error to share.
Every contact should be in the crime computer, for two years I've had to explain to hundreds of players that they can pickup and turn in about 99% of missions to most contacts and almost immediately that rule is broken by Julie or Burt or Kodiak or Kinetic or McKenzie or Citizens. By the time we are done with those missions, they've forgotten the lesson about Socrates.
It would help if there was a key bind for the damn thing.
I'm not sure the rewards are meaningful. People are often above level twenty when they ask me what they can do with recognition, and the thrill of getting costumes is lost on people who only play one character. No new players that I've met in the past year have any interest in grinding for Q to get zen. They play a game for a fun distraction, not for grinding and microtransactions. Once the Q exchange is explained to them and they do a little math, exclaim a vulgarity and I never see my new friend again.
There's really no need for no personality, no voice over, no animation, never in danger NPC contacts to be teleported to.
I've played with thousands of players, I never had to go to their home or jail cell to do it.
I've read a million billion things online, never had to travel to the author to hear their story.
I can order any product legal or illegal off the internet from my smartphone.
I think super heroes should be able to deal with stuff using their communications gear.
If Defender can yap at me and every noob in the tutorial, while he hangs out in Champions HQ, its pretty well established that advanced communications equipment is in use and two second face to face meetings aren't necessary to get the job done.
It would be different if we had to rescue the NPC from some danger, or they were going to team up with us and add some depth to the adventure, like the rare escort mission. But the majority of them simply loiter all day and are disappointing to contact.
I don't know what you are getting at with the descriptions of missions.
"Patrol five rooms for xp"
"Beat the villain, you can ignore the trash mobs"
"Collect x shiny things"
"Beat x bad guys"
Doesn't sound any more attractive and/or potentially adventurous, but I guess that would help me quickly avoid 'collect x shiny objects' missions that are boring and an extra 20 seconds per object.
Individual mission panels contains the extra information about the mission, clicking a mission name in the crime computer pops up that info. It seems the missions with rewards aren't in the crime computer. I guess this is so people like me couldn't just share those missions out to new characters and run only that content, hordeing rewards and upsetting some kind of balance like in the auction house, without tying up my limited mission log space.
Most of the mission rewards are bind on pickup gear so I don't know how that system is really helping the game at all. Then you have something like Fatal Error, that may or may not reward a costume drop. How would the info panel work for that? Show some costume drops and a little icon labeled "Nothing valuable" for when you may not get the drop?
Contacting an NPC shows their portrait in the mission panel. I don't think this really ads anything to the game. People play characters for their character, not some NPC face. Doug Mckenzie's mug isn't going to inspire anyone to fight for Canada's freedom from evil.
The contacts , for the Adventure Packs show the rewards and that doesn't increase the number of players playing this content at all. 243 Steam players in game, 2 people in Aftershock, solo, who will not get the reward because they won't be able to defeat the boss. Telling them they can pick an item they'll never be able to get and is only usable on a limited style of character design isn't all that helpful.
Not sure how you came to ^that^ conclusion. I meant a description of the general purpose of that NPC's missions. You know, flavor text. "Collect x things" isn't gonna get anyone excited.
People use that gear. I certainly do while I'm leveling up. Remember how MMOs are mostly about collecting gear?
It would work the way common sense dictactes... not the nonsense you just spouted.
Bland interfaces get bland responses. Maybe you like to just look at a wall of text (lord knows you write enough of them), but players like pictures. Maybe we're beneath you because of that.
Duh. Because those missions have the same low visibility everything else in the game does. That's kind of the point here genius... using the crime computer to increase the visibility of these rewards. Try to keep up.
Here we go again...
[citation needed]
[citation needed]
Someone will want it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I'm saying that preventing access to missions that provide thoserewards by locking them out of the crime computer and forcing people to an NPC isn't helping.
How does 'common sense' work for new players who have no idea they are going to get screwed out of rewards after a two and half hour quest as they often are with the Action Packs and Comics? There was a guy on COX channel today saying how he's fought Shadow Destroyer three times and didn't beat him. That's three times, no reward for three people. How does common sense tell a person that they may get absolutely nothing more than 35,000 resources from Fatal Error if they never ran Fatal Error before?
You make a lot of assumptions that don't make any sense.
The pictures are already there in the mission panel, not a single one of any players I teamed with ever said "WOW that picture of Defender's head really excites me, lets do that mission"
Some of those missions are at the very first contacts in the game. If you return to the powerhouse after level 10 you are going to see that those guys have a mission. I often find those missions in the journal of someone I teamed with. They couldn't complete them and they are stuck with them taking up two slots each. How will those missions stand out in a list of other missions and walls of 'flavor text." People don't read the help, don't read the On Alert intro text, don't read mission texts, now you expect somehow that stuffing all the data into the crime computer with a hundred other quests will change that.
Oh look at that, a guy has been in CoX channel and zone chat asking if anyone has a partially compelted Resistance in their journal for over twenty minutes.
[10/28 17:41] [Zone #1] ThatGuy@thathandle: ... Seriously? Nobody does Resistance these days?
Nobody can find it because Defender is practically invisible and that big yellow exclamation mark over his head just means he's happy to see me. Right?
Look at that, an interface is available for counting a certain group of players, you don't use it, you deny its usefulness, but Cryptic should go out of their way updating an interface because you assume people will use it. I think we can predict that people won't use it because people do not use what is already available to them.
People are told about Socrates in the tutorial, but 98% of all players I meet in game need to be told about it again, and never once clicked on it before I told them about it.
Simple logic a level 23 and a level 12, by themselves, do not have a enough DPS and defense to finish off the boss and collect the mission rewards after a two hour mission. Prove me wrong with the average AT and the default gear you get while leveling to those levels.
Most missions don't even have rewards. For example, 90 Help A Citizen missions in MC, not a single reward outside of XP.
Personaly, since i started the game i used it like 3 or 4 times, because i think it's boring, confused and, well, useles, precisely due to the mess that is the quest list in the current version.
I think the idea of show only the quests near of your level and sort of the quest per area, could really help a lot... and personaly, the "beep boop" sound effects would be welcome :biggrin:
How is that relevant? If you're in a team doing quests together, why would you need the crime computer? Everyone is already on board with what's being done. Flavor text is a part of games, it gets players interested. Maybe not the ones you always reference who suspiciously always line up exactly with every claim you make.
"Most of the mission rewards are bind on pickup gear so I don't know how that system is really helping the game at all." <-- then why did you type that?
Screwed out of what reward? If there isn't a reward, then a reward won't be listed. If it has a chance to drop, it'll say it has a chance to drop. Common sense.
People with common sense realize that sometimes in games you don't succeed. My neighbor's thirteen year old doesn't have much common sense, he cries like a baby anytime he fails at a video game.
Aesthetics in video games isn't a new thing. Not sure where you get your ideas of what makes an attractive interface, but the more I listen to you the more I think you work for the DMV. Also if you think the purpose of the pictures is to make a player say that, then you're being ridiculous. It's not by the way; it's an eye catch and it just makes the interface more fun. Remember fun?
The fact that you wrote this means you didn't read everything I wrote. Go re-read. Pay attention to level ranges.
The "stuffing all the data in the crime computer" thing you're talking about is what we have now.
Resistence can be solo'd. If someone is unable to complete it, they are free to drop the quest. This isn't secret knowledge either, everyone can see the abandon quest button. Your theoretical scenario doesn't make much sense; most people aren't as braindead as "ThatGuy".
Yes, because if you show people a terrible interface and then hide it behind several windows and never mention it again, their natural reaction will be to not use it. You keep pointing out all these flaws with the current crime computer... are you sure you're defending that it should stay the same?
Socrates is just another quest giver. No different from Kinteic standing on a street corner in Millenium City.
Then common sense dictates that the only reward listed will be the XP. If those two players can't finish the mission, then they're free to abandon it, and having to do so isn't some massive punishing blow to their self esteem. They just move on to do something else.
You're not really making a good case for why the current crime computer is useful at all. You do realize that after a complete overhaul that it would effectively be a new thing right? We're not just taking the old crime computer, changing the color, and putting it back out there again. That's what overhaul means Next.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The game could certainly use more beeps and boops
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I like STO's episode system. It's very well organized and intuitive to use. It would be nice if we could get similar system going in CO.
Yes, Crime Computer needs an overhaul. It needs to be better organised, less tiresome to browse, better segregated, more informative with formatting, level ranges, mission rewards.
It simply needs to be a better visual interface.
Just look at the alert interface in comparison. It avoids monotonous block of dull texts.
Sad thing is, I've never seen a GM post in the Suggestion Box like they did back in the day. I think most our suggestions aren't even going to these guys any longer.
Seriously, there's not even a single Q&A session that took place in months/maybe years... It's sad that they're not giving a damn about their playerbase.
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That way, opening the crime computer goes straight to the crime computer, no need for the one-option dialogue box.
Then, everything you have said.
I know that this is not what you guys are talking about, but could this be helpful?
http://web.archive.org/web/20130808213245/http://champions-online-wiki.com/wiki/Mission_Level_Locations
I have been told that this will be recreated on the new CO WIKI.
Until then...
just that...
love the ideas
Gone but not forgotten...
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Yep. This would makes life quicker, easier and makes more sense.
Another person mentioned organizing the crime computer based on locale of the quest, which makes picking up quests for a new area much quicker. Add in some icons to indicate repeatable quests, dailies, escorts, etc... for ease of decision-making. In the case of escort quests, send the person to the escortee.
I would love to see the quest cap also increased, as I am constantly having to drop quests in order to make room. I then have to pick up those dropped quests again. This is quite annoying and results in less game flow. My suggestion is double the number of quests in the quest log. As mentioned by another person, list the quest reward/s in each listing as well.