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kamokami
Posts: 1,633 Arc User
I wonder how many of the players who joined since On-Alert have experienced all the major mission arcs in the game. Been through Monster Island crisis, Moreau's Lab, Lemuria's missions and lairs, Vibora's awesomeness......etc.
CN is putting out new content, but the existing content is also pretty awesome and fully fleshed out. Back from when the game had more resources and budget.
I wonder if a lot of the newer players never enjoy it because alerts are more accessible?
Maybe some of this content can be made more accessible and bring some of the depth that CO does have to more people. Thoughts on how to do that?
CN is putting out new content, but the existing content is also pretty awesome and fully fleshed out. Back from when the game had more resources and budget.
I wonder if a lot of the newer players never enjoy it because alerts are more accessible?
Maybe some of this content can be made more accessible and bring some of the depth that CO does have to more people. Thoughts on how to do that?
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We have alert queuing, and Rampage queuing, so why not instance queuing?
And possibly even PQs for them.
Moreau, Teleios Tower, Therakiel, etc etc.
Just off the top of my head... alerts already scale to a certain level, these could too presumably without TOO much trouble..
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It would also be nice if there was more variation in the sensible content for level 40s. I'd like to see all the lairs be skull-scaled (so a bit more challenge for 40s) and have unique rare rewards.
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Maybe instead of simply queing for lairs, how about you travel to the lair entrance first and then it queus (or however its spelled).
Yep scull scaling would be awesome. I wonder if adding unique rewards to the lairs is too much work for the current CO team though.
I would also love more rewards. Maybe it would be easier to do if they were purely cosmetic? Instead of more gear....since that may be harder to add.
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You would have to ask those people. It could just be that new players don't know they can use the super jet to get to other areas. The early game has changed so much and I hardly ever do most of the Westside missions, so I have no idea if the game leads players to other areas anymore.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I couldn't agree more. :biggrin:
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Nope.
If you have no habit of checking on Defender or the Crime Computer, there's no clear indication "move your sorry *** out of the Millennium City!".
I can't recall Surhoff sending players to Defender or Justiciar once they're done with the Westside arc.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279291
Socrates will give you ones for canada and desert, as well as north of city.
you can get them from 12-15.
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If we're talking about new players, we're talking about someone who had to go through the tutorial, meaning they do get a mission that leads them to defender, who then branches them off to literally every other quest in the game in standard MMO fashion. They just spent the whole tutorial using the quest tracker to figure out where to go next, so naturally that's what new players would continue to follow. I think the one thing that derails them is their first Alert, after which they say "Wow that was hella fun, and check out all this xp!", which naturally motivates them to que again, and again, and again. When they go back to check their missions, they realize they're several levels past them. So now what? Now they actually have to figure out where to get quests their level.
They have two resources at this point: (1) the crime computer, (2) run around and look.
(2) is likely to lead to frustration and boredom, at which point the player goes back to alerts.
(1) the crime computer is about as crippled a resource as one could imagine. First, they don't really make a big deal about it. Second, it's not particularly interesting to look it; it looks like an accountant designed the interface, except that all the accountants I know would have put some thought into making the information it has a bit easier to digest; even now I find it overwhelming and lacking in organizational ques.
The crime computer needs a complete overhaul.
- First off, give it an interface that makes it look and feel like the player is actually interacting with some sort of crime computer. If something looks neat and gets the player immersed then they're more likely to use it; kids play with toys because they're colorful and make fun noises, apply this simple concept to the crime computer. Make it go beep and boop, give it a cool screen with buttons, etc...
- Second, make the crime computer as in-your-face as the alert buttons are. Give it a visible and interesting button (something that looks like a computer). Make this button pester the player to use it at times when it is logical to do so. For example, if a player has no quests, or only has gray quests in their log, then have it start flashing. Players will click on things that are flashing, it's just in their nature. Baby likes to push buttons, give baby a button to push!
- Third, make the information the crime computer provides concise and easy to digest. Instead of just a list of NPC and mission names, show a portrait of the NPC, show which zone they're in, then list under them a description of what they need help with (not a list of mission names, an actual description). Also, narrow down the level range of missions shown; same level, and slightly lower and higher only. Less is more. Only start increasing that range if the player has somehow exhausted all missions in their current range.
- Fourth, allow the crime computer to teleport players to the quest npc. Make it as convenient as possible for them to get out of M-City and get right to that other zone.
- Fifth, add information on rewards to the interface. For example when clicking on a mission, show the rewards right there. Also, have part of the interface give information on Recognition rewards; tell the player what sort of recognition a given mission's level range is going to drop, and what rewards can be gotten from that recognition (on another tab from the missions of course, keep everything nicely separated and clean). There are some pretty neat rewards that come from missions, but those rewards can't draw players to the mission if they don't even know they exist. By showing the rewards already in the mission computer and doing so quickly and simply, it gets the player interested in actually going there.
The main issue keeping new players from heading to other zones, and from doing missions in general, is both that the information on where they could be isn't being fed to them effectively, and because Grab alerts have a tendency of derailing a player's progression through the mission hierarchy. Use the crime computer to alert players to what they can be doing, tell them what they would be doing, what they can gain from it, and get them there asap so they can get back on track, and make sure that the crime computer doesn't wait for the player to check it out, make it demand their attention.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Also, when you talk to Dr. Greg Land out by Snake Gulch, he offers you a mission to go check things out in Canada ("Out of the Frying Pan"), while Justiciar offers you one to go to the Desert ("Dry Gulched"). And of course there's the Queen City arc, which starts by talking to one of the MacKenzie brothers at Force Station Steelhead.
Basically, those who don't know how to leave MC just aren't trying. Or are deliberately trying not to go.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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It's actually the fact that Grab Alert XP derails their quest progression, and the game makes no effort to get them back on track. Blaming the player for "not trying" is wrong in this case, because players generally don't want to keep doing a quest chain that's gray because the color indicates that it is less rewarding and hence a waste of time. At that point (see my long post above for the rest of this explanation).
Long story short - they added something to the game that's guaranteed to derail quest progression, and never overhauled their dinosaur of an interface that should get players back on track. I've been playing for years and I still don't use the Crime Computer to find quests because the interface is god awful. You want me to try doing something in your video game, you better make sure it doesn't feel like trying to find information in a long poorly organized list.
This actually isn't true. We're not all accountants, and most players don't bother whipping out the calculator to do XP/hour calculations repeatedly to make sure they're leveling at peak efficiency. People take the path the game shows them - currently the game is only doing a good job of showing players the path to alerts. Players would do missions more if the path to those missions was made more clear, more tempting, and more convenient.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
That leads me to the topic of why I even play the game. If a game is fun, shouldn't you be sad when its over? The way I see it, this game is about the Journey, not the destination.
Which part is the journey is subjective; for many players, the journey continues long after they've hit level 40.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Is.
Painfully.
True.
I'd even go as far as saying the game interface not only does nothing to direct players to quests, but actively detracts attention from them.
As soon as the new player enters the game he's welcomed by a very big and somewhat obnoxious welcome window mentioning alerts, but no comparable advertisement is given to missions. It creates an impression that alerts are a primary way of playing the game to 40 lvl by design.
The Crime Computer has a very small and nondescript button, it needs to be as easy to find as is the Alerts interface.
More, it's interface is terrible and also needs a serious overhaul.
Not only it does not include every mission ingame (there are contacts not mentioned in the Computer at all), but also it needs to be easier to read.
Not as monotonous as it is now, quests need to be separated by their level range and location, mission rewards including resources and XP also need to be visible in the Crime Computer.
True. I don't find end-game quite as exciting, though. When you're on top, its nice too see all of the villains you've stepped on to get there, but it does get lonely. Maybe they should involve your nemesis more?
It's just too bad that one of the things that cryptic was fairly clear about recently was that they have no plans for the nemesis system
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- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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I don't think I'll ever stop hoping for a 5 man alert where 5 players square off against 5 nemesises all at once in an ultimate brawl. There doesn't even have to by anything else to it... let the nemesis side bring some henchmen (cause they need them to stand a chance), then just have us fight each other. Throw in a mechanic that prevents all 5 nems from aggroing to the same person for the entire fight, and it'd be great.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Haha that would be so fun!
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I second this.
Thirded. I like the GRAB Alert for this exact reason, but feel it falls short. Preventing all-out tanking is-... Iffy. On one hand, I love the idea of it being a comic-book-esque battle where each Nemesis focuses on the hero they hate most, but I'd also foresee a lot of complaints about tank characters being made useless.
Cupid@Tool-box, stunningly radiant stag ready to play matchmaker between villain and arrow!
Vixon@Tool-box, frighteningly eager to summon despair for his adversaries!
Jebin Zedalu@Tool-box, elementalist weaponmaster. ...One of these things is not like the others!
Not to derail, but part of the reason Nemesis system feels like it shows up "too late" at lvl 25 and second travel power really feels too late to be of a ton of use, lvl 35, is because level forty wasn't meant to be the games level cap. Basically, all those decisions about at what point in the games leveling curve these things should show up was made back when the early design for the game had 50 as the cap.
Fifty was the intended level cap, and I had a level 46 or so back in the original alpha. the game was fine and had no scaling issues, although at this point stats were barely implemented and stats and loot ere using the older version one definitions and scale. There was even once a perk in out perk list shown at level 40 only that was an incomplete bar showing progress to fifty, taken out somewhere along the way when I wasn't looking.
We can hit cap in what seems like moments now as it is, i've long thought Champions would benefit from more. More more more content, zones, levels, and points to spend on stats, talents, specs gear scaling up a bit higher with new level ranges, all of it.
So, not only does existing content need more exposure, we need a lot more of it. Gateway is the beginning, I hope.
CripC could still be allowed to work for its 'fixate' aspect even if another Nem is gunning for their rival- maybe have the fixate last a bit longer vs a Nem. CS shouldn't work as easily since that could promote thoughtless AoE-spam tanking, imo.
Also, in this sort of encounter, would the Nems be as they normally are typed, where they aren't immune to CC, or would they more or less be normal boss types?
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
The best encounters in this games are wasted either in low level or they are set in such a way that very few people play them.
Low level lairs have some of the best boss fights in the game like stronghold prison or DD Factory. However, with luck players play them once if they are not going for the alert leveling right away.
Another case are Therakiel Temple, which is played by very few. It should be divided in encounters and set as smaller rampages or just smaller lairs.
Imho, they should really think what they could do to reuse content but at the same time CO does not have a clear end-game strategy.
I have never run Therakiells temple. What's it like? I hear these tales of finding Therakiel's Sword and getting all kinds of epic items from it!
It is so fine that the best lair in the game that is barely run by players. I am not sure if rewards changes or fundamental changes but that I know is right now is not working out for most people playing the game.
Should make people run Therakiel's temple a bit more methinks.
The website changing into Arc doesn't help either. The old website used to have page links found on top of the site dedicated to showing all available APs, Comics, zones and end game along with how to access them.
The site doesn't even promote its own content anymore aside from what can be bought. And its a testament to why players are less likely to be found in these unique locations.
It would take a dedicated team to make the game more accessible and increase population. A team Champions still doesn't have even with Cryptic North.
That's not because the lair itself is lacking, but because of other factors:
1 - Terribly low drop rate for costume parts and no gear rewards. No rewards = why to bother to play?
2 - Gated behind Vibora Bay Apocalyse, and more and more people don't bother with playing through this crisis on their alts. It's just too long and repetitiv after one, maybe two plays. Really, this VB unlock fiasco must cease to be mandatory. That's the last unneeded crisis lock in the game. Soemone kill it finally.
I believe THIS thread is one they SHOULD heed. Many a great suggestion herein. Many people who disagree on other points are in SUPPORT here.
Keep it up people. I hope someone at Cryptic takes heed of THIS thread.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
Those are great ideas, easy to implement. They could make the same they do with MI and Lemuria crisis to be an optional thing.
The rewards are crucial not only for TT but also for andrith and mandragalore.
I still think it is a bit too long but I would settle for a decent reward scheme, no atunement and a queue for it.
Because they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they can't take things on the forums into consideration when making decisions. I like to think the devs know their audience better than we do, as a small part of the larger player base.
Therakiel's temple may be too long for the OnAlert era. Alerts, even rampages, are much shorter. Breaking up TT into sections with a boss fight at the end may help. For all we know, the average CO player is someone in their 30s with kids and a family to take care of and simply doesn't have the time to spend an hour plus on content.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Frankly, they should not. They may look for suggestions, especially if it's about things that don't work in the current shape, but that's all.
This forum has maybe like... 50 regular posters (and I'm really generous with this one) at best. That's not even a one MC zone, let alone a viable sample of the population.
Hmm, I should have originally added: "and I support this stance." Hopefully, those quoting me didn't mistake me for thinking otherwise. The sentence was merely to preface my statement which followed.
Mainly that, many of you, albeit a small fraction of the player base, are making EXCELLENT suggestions. And it is my fervent hope that these suggestions are brought to the attention of the DECISION MAKERS at Cryptic/PWE.
Of course there are other things that many of us would like them to pay attention to, but this thread is probably at the core of what ought to be done. Bugs, balancing, new (insert your fav here), etc should be addressed afterwards, IMO.
-=-=-=-=-=-(CO in-game handle: @WarCan )-=-=-=-=-=-
"Okay, you're DEAD, what do you do NEXT?"
-Beginning to Black Fang.
-Black Fang to Vladic.
-Vladic to End.
Just put the unlocks back into it(converting dated gear with unlocks into straight up unlocks) and call it a day for the most part. :biggrin:
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer