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Existing Content: Needs more exposure

kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
edited October 2014 in Champions Online Discussion
I wonder how many of the players who joined since On-Alert have experienced all the major mission arcs in the game. Been through Monster Island crisis, Moreau's Lab, Lemuria's missions and lairs, Vibora's awesomeness......etc.

CN is putting out new content, but the existing content is also pretty awesome and fully fleshed out. Back from when the game had more resources and budget.

I wonder if a lot of the newer players never enjoy it because alerts are more accessible?

Maybe some of this content can be made more accessible and bring some of the depth that CO does have to more people. Thoughts on how to do that?
Post edited by kamokami on
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  • jamesbonnelljamesbonnell Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    offhand:

    We have alert queuing, and Rampage queuing, so why not instance queuing?


    And possibly even PQs for them.

    Moreau, Teleios Tower, Therakiel, etc etc.

    Just off the top of my head... alerts already scale to a certain level, these could too presumably without TOO much trouble..
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    Rather than adding even more queues and ways for players to never leave rencen, we should be RE adding the old rewards players could earn by actually getting out in the zones and playing the old content.
    Agreed. Part of the reason I used to do a lot of arcs was because most arc endings had something interesting as a reward. Not necessarily very useful, but interesting.
  • moxiedangermoxiedanger Posts: 189 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    100% agree on adding / re-adding significant rewards to significant instances. This doesn't seem like it would be at all resource intensive.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Do you guys think that would get the newer players going out into the world? Is the question one of motivation, in terms of lacking rewards, or is it more about the fact that Alerts are just way easier to access.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    kamokami wrote: »
    Do you guys think that would get the newer players going out into the world? Is the question one of motivation, in terms of lacking rewards, or is it more about the fact that Alerts are just way easier to access.
    If quests had rewards worth the time, people would be motivated to find them. Give Alerts diminishing returns like Rampages and maybe people would use the quests more.

    It would also be nice if there was more variation in the sensible content for level 40s. I'd like to see all the lairs be skull-scaled (so a bit more challenge for 40s) and have unique rare rewards.
  • gandalesgandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    There should be a lvl40 version of every Lair with different rewards, so there will be a lot of replayability.
  • bdragon4cobdragon4co Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I like these ideas!

    Maybe instead of simply queing for lairs, how about you travel to the lair entrance first and then it queus (or however its spelled).
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    If quests had rewards worth the time, people would be motivated to find them. Give Alerts diminishing returns like Rampages and maybe people would use the quests more.

    It would also be nice if there was more variation in the sensible content for level 40s. I'd like to see all the lairs be skull-scaled (so a bit more challenge for 40s) and have unique rare rewards.

    Yep scull scaling would be awesome. I wonder if adding unique rewards to the lairs is too much work for the current CO team though.

    I would also love more rewards. Maybe it would be easier to do if they were purely cosmetic? Instead of more gear....since that may be harder to add.
  • pantagruel01pantagruel01 Posts: 7,091 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    kamokami wrote: »
    Yep scull scaling would be awesome. I wonder if adding unique rewards to the lairs is too much work for the current CO team though.
    Pre-existing unlocks are probably the easiest, though old-timers are likely to already have them.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    kamokami wrote: »
    Do you guys think that would get the newer players going out into the world? Is the question one of motivation, in terms of lacking rewards, or is it more about the fact that Alerts are just way easier to access.

    You would have to ask those people. It could just be that new players don't know they can use the super jet to get to other areas. The early game has changed so much and I hardly ever do most of the Westside missions, so I have no idea if the game leads players to other areas anymore.
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  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    My favorite part of this thread is the way the view of it from the main forum page truncates the title to, "Existing Content: Needs more..."

    I couldn't agree more. :biggrin:
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited October 2014
    sterga wrote: »
    I have no idea if the game leads players to other areas anymore.

    Nope.
    If you have no habit of checking on Defender or the Crime Computer, there's no clear indication "move your sorry *** out of the Millennium City!".

    I can't recall Surhoff sending players to Defender or Justiciar once they're done with the Westside arc.
  • chaelkchaelk Posts: 7,732 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Eruption does drop, from Armadillo. it's End Primary gear. got it about 1-2 months ago
    http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=279291

    Socrates will give you ones for canada and desert, as well as north of city.
    you can get them from 12-15.
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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I'm just going to throw in here that a lot of players probably stop doing missions and start just doing alerts because missions are the same thing you get in alerts, but with lots of travelling and a bit of reading thrown in for added tedium. But let's go past that.


    If we're talking about new players, we're talking about someone who had to go through the tutorial, meaning they do get a mission that leads them to defender, who then branches them off to literally every other quest in the game in standard MMO fashion. They just spent the whole tutorial using the quest tracker to figure out where to go next, so naturally that's what new players would continue to follow. I think the one thing that derails them is their first Alert, after which they say "Wow that was hella fun, and check out all this xp!", which naturally motivates them to que again, and again, and again. When they go back to check their missions, they realize they're several levels past them. So now what? Now they actually have to figure out where to get quests their level.

    They have two resources at this point: (1) the crime computer, (2) run around and look.

    (2) is likely to lead to frustration and boredom, at which point the player goes back to alerts.

    (1) the crime computer is about as crippled a resource as one could imagine. First, they don't really make a big deal about it. Second, it's not particularly interesting to look it; it looks like an accountant designed the interface, except that all the accountants I know would have put some thought into making the information it has a bit easier to digest; even now I find it overwhelming and lacking in organizational ques.


    The crime computer needs a complete overhaul.

    - First off, give it an interface that makes it look and feel like the player is actually interacting with some sort of crime computer. If something looks neat and gets the player immersed then they're more likely to use it; kids play with toys because they're colorful and make fun noises, apply this simple concept to the crime computer. Make it go beep and boop, give it a cool screen with buttons, etc...

    - Second, make the crime computer as in-your-face as the alert buttons are. Give it a visible and interesting button (something that looks like a computer). Make this button pester the player to use it at times when it is logical to do so. For example, if a player has no quests, or only has gray quests in their log, then have it start flashing. Players will click on things that are flashing, it's just in their nature. Baby likes to push buttons, give baby a button to push!

    - Third, make the information the crime computer provides concise and easy to digest. Instead of just a list of NPC and mission names, show a portrait of the NPC, show which zone they're in, then list under them a description of what they need help with (not a list of mission names, an actual description). Also, narrow down the level range of missions shown; same level, and slightly lower and higher only. Less is more. Only start increasing that range if the player has somehow exhausted all missions in their current range.

    - Fourth, allow the crime computer to teleport players to the quest npc. Make it as convenient as possible for them to get out of M-City and get right to that other zone.

    - Fifth, add information on rewards to the interface. For example when clicking on a mission, show the rewards right there. Also, have part of the interface give information on Recognition rewards; tell the player what sort of recognition a given mission's level range is going to drop, and what rewards can be gotten from that recognition (on another tab from the missions of course, keep everything nicely separated and clean). There are some pretty neat rewards that come from missions, but those rewards can't draw players to the mission if they don't even know they exist. By showing the rewards already in the mission computer and doing so quickly and simply, it gets the player interested in actually going there.


    The main issue keeping new players from heading to other zones, and from doing missions in general, is both that the information on where they could be isn't being fed to them effectively, and because Grab alerts have a tendency of derailing a player's progression through the mission hierarchy. Use the crime computer to alert players to what they can be doing, tell them what they would be doing, what they can gain from it, and get them there asap so they can get back on track, and make sure that the crime computer doesn't wait for the player to check it out, make it demand their attention.
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Nope.
    If you have no habit of checking on Defender or the Crime Computer, there's no clear indication "move your sorry *** out of the Millennium City!".

    I can't recall Surhoff sending players to Defender or Justiciar once they're done with the Westside arc.
    When you're done with the Westside arc, Surhoff gives you the option of either doing the Canadian crisis or the Desert crisis. Once you've done that, each quest hub loads you up with a bunch more stuff to do, eventually leading deeper into the region. As you approach 20, you can get missions to other areas too; for instance, the fellow at Greenskin Base whose name escapes me gives you the option of returning to MC to talk to Corporal Antoine, who starts you on a mission chain that culminates in defeating Kevin Poe again, as well as another that has you reporting to Silver Avenger Sanchez and ultimately locating the Gadroon invasion base in MC. He also sends you to talk to Kinetik, who's looking into the disappearance of the Mayor's daughter. And so forth.

    Also, when you talk to Dr. Greg Land out by Snake Gulch, he offers you a mission to go check things out in Canada ("Out of the Frying Pan"), while Justiciar offers you one to go to the Desert ("Dry Gulched"). And of course there's the Queen City arc, which starts by talking to one of the MacKenzie brothers at Force Station Steelhead.

    Basically, those who don't know how to leave MC just aren't trying. Or are deliberately trying not to go.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Rewards for legacy content need an overhaul period. They need a sort of reward type that can't be gotten from alerts, or be updated with merit / questionite rewards perhaps. They need to be made relevant. Something has to be there to justify the slower level progression other than just experiencing the content for solely for the experience of visiting all the different locations.
  • arimikamiarimikami Posts: 475 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Most MMO players are min/maxers, even if they don't realize it, and almost always take the path of least resistance. About the only way you'll get the majority of people to do content other than alerts is by removing alerts from the game.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    jonsills wrote: »
    When you're done with the Westside arc, Surhoff gives you the option of either doing the Canadian crisis or the Desert crisis. Once you've done that, each quest hub loads you up with a bunch more stuff to do, eventually leading deeper into the region. As you approach 20, you can get missions to other areas too; for instance, the fellow at Greenskin Base whose name escapes me gives you the option of returning to MC to talk to Corporal Antoine, who starts you on a mission chain that culminates in defeating Kevin Poe again, as well as another that has you reporting to Silver Avenger Sanchez and ultimately locating the Gadroon invasion base in MC. He also sends you to talk to Kinetik, who's looking into the disappearance of the Mayor's daughter. And so forth.

    Also, when you talk to Dr. Greg Land out by Snake Gulch, he offers you a mission to go check things out in Canada ("Out of the Frying Pan"), while Justiciar offers you one to go to the Desert ("Dry Gulched"). And of course there's the Queen City arc, which starts by talking to one of the MacKenzie brothers at Force Station Steelhead.

    Basically, those who don't know how to leave MC just aren't trying. Or are deliberately trying not to go.

    It's actually the fact that Grab Alert XP derails their quest progression, and the game makes no effort to get them back on track. Blaming the player for "not trying" is wrong in this case, because players generally don't want to keep doing a quest chain that's gray because the color indicates that it is less rewarding and hence a waste of time. At that point (see my long post above for the rest of this explanation).

    Long story short - they added something to the game that's guaranteed to derail quest progression, and never overhauled their dinosaur of an interface that should get players back on track. I've been playing for years and I still don't use the Crime Computer to find quests because the interface is god awful. You want me to try doing something in your video game, you better make sure it doesn't feel like trying to find information in a long poorly organized list.
    arimikami wrote: »
    Most MMO players are min/maxers, even if they don't realize it, and almost always take the path of least resistance. About the only way you'll get the majority of people to do content other than alerts is by removing alerts from the game.

    This actually isn't true. We're not all accountants, and most players don't bother whipping out the calculator to do XP/hour calculations repeatedly to make sure they're leveling at peak efficiency. People take the path the game shows them - currently the game is only doing a good job of showing players the path to alerts. Players would do missions more if the path to those missions was made more clear, more tempting, and more convenient.
  • bdragon4cobdragon4co Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Alerts can derail you from quest progression, but I think that mostly has to do with how much you play them. "Min/Max" players who go the Alert route to leveling their characters miss out on a lot and although they level fast, you'd also miss just about every perk in the game.

    That leads me to the topic of why I even play the game. If a game is fun, shouldn't you be sad when its over? The way I see it, this game is about the Journey, not the destination.
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    bdragon4co wrote: »
    Alerts can derail you from quest progression, but I think that mostly has to do with how much you play them. "Min/Max" players who go the Alert route to leveling their characters miss out on a lot and although they level fast, you'd also miss just about every perk in the game.

    That leads me to the topic of why I even play the game. If a game is fun, shouldn't you be sad when its over? The way I see it, this game is about the Journey, not the destination.

    Which part is the journey is subjective; for many players, the journey continues long after they've hit level 40.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited October 2014
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Long story short - they added something to the game that's guaranteed to derail quest progression, and never overhauled their dinosaur of an interface that should get players back on track. I've been playing for years and I still don't use the Crime Computer to find quests because the interface is god awful. You want me to try doing something in your video game, you better make sure it doesn't feel like trying to find information in a long poorly organized list.
    ^This.
    Is.
    Painfully.
    True.

    I'd even go as far as saying the game interface not only does nothing to direct players to quests, but actively detracts attention from them.
    As soon as the new player enters the game he's welcomed by a very big and somewhat obnoxious welcome window mentioning alerts, but no comparable advertisement is given to missions. It creates an impression that alerts are a primary way of playing the game to 40 lvl by design.

    The Crime Computer has a very small and nondescript button, it needs to be as easy to find as is the Alerts interface.

    More, it's interface is terrible and also needs a serious overhaul.

    Not only it does not include every mission ingame (there are contacts not mentioned in the Computer at all), but also it needs to be easier to read.

    Not as monotonous as it is now, quests need to be separated by their level range and location, mission rewards including resources and XP also need to be visible in the Crime Computer.
  • bdragon4cobdragon4co Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    spinnytop wrote: »
    Which part is the journey is subjective; for many players, the journey continues long after they've hit level 40.

    True. I don't find end-game quite as exciting, though. When you're on top, its nice too see all of the villains you've stepped on to get there, but it does get lonely. Maybe they should involve your nemesis more?
  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    The nemesis system should be a MUCH bigger part of the game.

    You should get a nemesis earlier, and he/she/it should show up at random in person and/or sending tough minions after you.

    Nemesis missions should be shareable, and each nemesis /reward handled seperately for missions sake.

    Nemesis in general should be MUCH tougher, and the minions a LOT more challenging as well. but mostly the nemesis itself, a nemesis is supposed to be a serious threat to your hero.

    While it's true that sometimes a hero will have a joke of a nemesis, we should have a choice of nemesis difficulty each time we create one, and rewards scaling on how difficult we decided to make our nemesis.

    Nemesis should also sometimes be in charge of the bank robberies in city center, which of course should use skull tech so they scale to level.

    Add to that, we really need versions of that in westside, and downtown, maybe warehouse takeovers by gangs for westside, and penthouse hostage situations for downtown.

    and player nemesis should be able to end up being behind ANY of these with a decent chance per player entering.

    It's just too bad that one of the things that cryptic was fairly clear about recently was that they have no plans for the nemesis system :/
  • jonsillsjonsills Posts: 6,314 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    We must storm the gates with freshly baked zombies until they change their minds.
    I don't have any baked zombies, but the Visible Man was pan-frying a bunch of them around Johnny Hercules earlier today...
    "Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"

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  • spinnytopspinnytop Posts: 16,450 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    We must storm the gates with freshly baked zombies until they change their minds.

    I don't think I'll ever stop hoping for a 5 man alert where 5 players square off against 5 nemesises all at once in an ultimate brawl. There doesn't even have to by anything else to it... let the nemesis side bring some henchmen (cause they need them to stand a chance), then just have us fight each other. Throw in a mechanic that prevents all 5 nems from aggroing to the same person for the entire fight, and it'd be great.
  • kamokamikamokami Posts: 1,633 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I don't think I'll ever stop hoping for a 5 man alert where 5 players square off against 5 nemesises all at once in an ultimate brawl. There doesn't even have to by anything else to it... let the nemesis side bring some henchmen (cause they need them to stand a chance), then just have us fight each other. Throw in a mechanic that prevents all 5 nems from aggroing to the same person for the entire fight, and it'd be great.

    Haha that would be so fun!
  • bdragon4cobdragon4co Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I don't think I'll ever stop hoping for a 5 man alert where 5 players square off against 5 nemesises all at once in an ultimate brawl. There doesn't even have to by anything else to it... let the nemesis side bring some henchmen (cause they need them to stand a chance), then just have us fight each other. Throw in a mechanic that prevents all 5 nems from aggroing to the same person for the entire fight, and it'd be great.

    I second this.
  • williamkonywilliamkony Posts: 581 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    spinnytop wrote: »
    I don't think I'll ever stop hoping for a 5 man alert where 5 players square off against 5 nemesises all at once in an ultimate brawl. There doesn't even have to by anything else to it... let the nemesis side bring some henchmen (cause they need them to stand a chance), then just have us fight each other. Throw in a mechanic that prevents all 5 nems from aggroing to the same person for the entire fight, and it'd be great.

    Thirded. I like the GRAB Alert for this exact reason, but feel it falls short. Preventing all-out tanking is-... Iffy. On one hand, I love the idea of it being a comic-book-esque battle where each Nemesis focuses on the hero they hate most, but I'd also foresee a lot of complaints about tank characters being made useless.
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  • iamruneiamrune Posts: 964 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Remember, this post is coming to you from the guy who actually discovered remote contacts and the ability to call them and take and turn in missions from a distance, back when it was a "bug".

    Not to derail, but part of the reason Nemesis system feels like it shows up "too late" at lvl 25 and second travel power really feels too late to be of a ton of use, lvl 35, is because level forty wasn't meant to be the games level cap. Basically, all those decisions about at what point in the games leveling curve these things should show up was made back when the early design for the game had 50 as the cap.

    Fifty was the intended level cap, and I had a level 46 or so back in the original alpha. the game was fine and had no scaling issues, although at this point stats were barely implemented and stats and loot ere using the older version one definitions and scale. There was even once a perk in out perk list shown at level 40 only that was an incomplete bar showing progress to fifty, taken out somewhere along the way when I wasn't looking.

    We can hit cap in what seems like moments now as it is, i've long thought Champions would benefit from more. More more more content, zones, levels, and points to spend on stats, talents, specs gear scaling up a bit higher with new level ranges, all of it.

    So, not only does existing content need more exposure, we need a lot more of it. Gateway is the beginning, I hope.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,220 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Thirded. I like the GRAB Alert for this exact reason, but feel it falls short. Preventing all-out tanking is-... Iffy. On one hand, I love the idea of it being a comic-book-esque battle where each Nemesis focuses on the hero they hate most, but I'd also foresee a lot of complaints about tank characters being made useless.

    CripC could still be allowed to work for its 'fixate' aspect even if another Nem is gunning for their rival- maybe have the fixate last a bit longer vs a Nem. CS shouldn't work as easily since that could promote thoughtless AoE-spam tanking, imo.

    Also, in this sort of encounter, would the Nems be as they normally are typed, where they aren't immune to CC, or would they more or less be normal boss types?
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  • gandalesgandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    I think level cap raises should be abandoned in favor of meaningful but different alternate progression systems.

    the game should be rebalanced around a level cap of 40, with multiple extra ways to advance a character once that cap is hit. STO does this fairly well. (although they have a higher cap)

    Remember theres games which do fine without using levels at all.

    The best encounters in this games are wasted either in low level or they are set in such a way that very few people play them.

    Low level lairs have some of the best boss fights in the game like stronghold prison or DD Factory. However, with luck players play them once if they are not going for the alert leveling right away.

    Another case are Therakiel Temple, which is played by very few. It should be divided in encounters and set as smaller rampages or just smaller lairs.

    Imho, they should really think what they could do to reuse content but at the same time CO does not have a clear end-game strategy.
  • bdragon4cobdragon4co Posts: 121 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    Therakiels temple is fine. Don't touch the best lair in the game, aside from giving people more reasons to run it.

    I have never run Therakiells temple. What's it like? I hear these tales of finding Therakiel's Sword and getting all kinds of epic items from it!
  • gandalesgandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    Therakiels temple is fine. Don't touch the best lair in the game, aside from giving people more reasons to run it.

    It is so fine that the best lair in the game that is barely run by players. I am not sure if rewards changes or fundamental changes but that I know is right now is not working out for most people playing the game.
  • drmechanodrmechano Posts: 46 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Only thing I'd do to these instances is probably just up the droprate on the costume pieces to about 10% and update the drops for On-Alert.

    Should make people run Therakiel's temple a bit more methinks.
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,443 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    The game has needed a reward drop chance and better direction toward these unique places since On Alert was first implemented.

    The website changing into Arc doesn't help either. The old website used to have page links found on top of the site dedicated to showing all available APs, Comics, zones and end game along with how to access them.

    The site doesn't even promote its own content anymore aside from what can be bought. And its a testament to why players are less likely to be found in these unique locations.

    It would take a dedicated team to make the game more accessible and increase population. A team Champions still doesn't have even with Cryptic North.
  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited October 2014
    gandales wrote: »
    It is so fine that the best lair in the game that is barely run by players. I am not sure if rewards changes or fundamental changes but that I know is right now is not working out for most people playing the game.


    That's not because the lair itself is lacking, but because of other factors:

    1 - Terribly low drop rate for costume parts and no gear rewards. No rewards = why to bother to play?

    2 - Gated behind Vibora Bay Apocalyse, and more and more people don't bother with playing through this crisis on their alts. It's just too long and repetitiv after one, maybe two plays. Really, this VB unlock fiasco must cease to be mandatory. That's the last unneeded crisis lock in the game. Soemone kill it finally.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 963 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    I hear, quite often, that "devs" shouldn't make decisions based on the vocal minority found in most forums.

    I believe THIS thread is one they SHOULD heed. Many a great suggestion herein. Many people who disagree on other points are in SUPPORT here.

    Keep it up people. I hope someone at Cryptic takes heed of THIS thread.
    .

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  • gandalesgandales Posts: 340 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    That's not because the lair itself is lacking, but because of other factors:

    1 - Terribly low drop rate for costume parts and no gear rewards. No rewards = why to bother to play?

    2 - Gated behind Vibora Bay Apocalyse, and more and more people don't bother with playing through this crisis on their alts. It's just too long and repetitiv after one, maybe two plays. Really, this VB unlock fiasco must cease to be mandatory. That's the last unneeded crisis lock inthe game. Soemone kill it finally.

    Those are great ideas, easy to implement. They could make the same they do with MI and Lemuria crisis to be an optional thing.

    The rewards are crucial not only for TT but also for andrith and mandragalore.

    I still think it is a bit too long but I would settle for a decent reward scheme, no atunement and a queue for it.
  • stergasterga Posts: 2,353 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    warcanch wrote: »
    I hear, quite often, that "devs" shouldn't make decisions based on the vocal minority found in most forums.

    Because they shouldn't. It doesn't mean they can't take things on the forums into consideration when making decisions. I like to think the devs know their audience better than we do, as a small part of the larger player base.


    Therakiel's temple may be too long for the OnAlert era. Alerts, even rampages, are much shorter. Breaking up TT into sections with a boss fight at the end may help. For all we know, the average CO player is someone in their 30s with kids and a family to take care of and simply doesn't have the time to spend an hour plus on content.
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  • meedacthunistmeedacthunist Posts: 2,961 Arc User1
    edited October 2014
    warcanch wrote: »
    I hear, quite often, that "devs" shouldn't make decisions based on the vocal minority found in most forums.

    Frankly, they should not. They may look for suggestions, especially if it's about things that don't work in the current shape, but that's all.

    This forum has maybe like... 50 regular posters (and I'm really generous with this one) at best. That's not even a one MC zone, let alone a viable sample of the population.
  • warcanchwarcanch Posts: 963 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    warcanch wrote: »
    I hear, quite often, that "devs" shouldn't make decisions based on the vocal minority found in most forums.

    I believe THIS thread is one they SHOULD heed. Many a great suggestion herein. Many people who disagree on other points are in SUPPORT here.

    Keep it up people. I hope someone at Cryptic takes heed of THIS thread.

    Hmm, I should have originally added: "and I support this stance." Hopefully, those quoting me didn't mistake me for thinking otherwise. The sentence was merely to preface my statement which followed.
    Mainly that, many of you, albeit a small fraction of the player base, are making EXCELLENT suggestions. And it is my fervent hope that these suggestions are brought to the attention of the DECISION MAKERS at Cryptic/PWE.

    Of course there are other things that many of us would like them to pay attention to, but this thread is probably at the core of what ought to be done. Bugs, balancing, new (insert your fav here), etc should be addressed afterwards, IMO.
    .

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  • crosschancrosschan Posts: 920 Arc User
    edited October 2014
    Uhm, Therakiel's Temple is already broken up into 3 pieces with the crystals.

    -Beginning to Black Fang.
    -Black Fang to Vladic.
    -Vladic to End.

    Just put the unlocks back into it(converting dated gear with unlocks into straight up unlocks) and call it a day for the most part. :biggrin:
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