Okay everyone put your adamantium pitch forks and quantum powered torches away u.u
I think that Cryptic North should take a year off from producing "content" and instead use that year to fix things, dig through the code and figure out how stuff works, do some extensive internal play-testing to really map out the balance of the game and figure that out.
Yes, people will complain, people will threaten to leave, people will whine that they're bored, compare you to world war two political groups, etc... After that year they'll all shut up when you start shoving bug fixes, effective balance tweaks, innovative content, and brand new features in their face.
"When your car gets a flat tire, you don't just keep going and hope you can make up for it with enthusiasm. You pull into the pit, fix it up, and catch up on the next lap."
I doubt they have any deciding power to do it if PWE wants them to churn out new alerts / Z store stuff consistently if it takes priority over bug fixes.
Okay everyone put your adamantium pitch forks and quantum powered torches away u.u
I think that Cryptic North should take a year off from producing "content" and instead use that year to fix things, dig through the code and figure out how stuff works, do some extensive internal play-testing to really map out the balance of the game and figure that out.
Yes, people will complain, people will threaten to leave, people will whine that they're bored, compare you to world war two political groups, etc... After that year they'll all shut up when you start shoving bug fixes, effective balance tweaks, innovative content, and brand new features in their face.
"When your car gets a flat tire, you don't just keep going and hope you can make up for it with enthusiasm. You pull into the pit, fix it up, and catch up on the next lap."
Your petition is 4 years too late.
....
Let's play that the maze is Cryptic Engine. .........We're here right now:
...........................................................................................................................This is where we're supposed to be.
CHAMPIONS ONLINE:Join Date: Apr 2008
And playing by myself since Aug 2009 Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
The pendulum is already swinging back to bug fixes. We had Fatal Err0r, we had a lot of seasonal events/lockboxes and bug fixes, we got Steel Crusade. Now it looks like we're getting more bug fixes. Exactly what gets fixed remains open for debate (and at least one forum self-immolation), but that appears to be the pattern right now.
Choose your enemies carefully, because they will define you / Make them interesting, because in some ways they will mind you
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Your petition is 4 years too late.
....
Let's play that the maze is Cryptic Engine. .........We're here right now:
...........................................................................................................................This is where we're supposed to be.
Says someone who has never worked in software engineering.
Quoted for truth. I can't even begin to explain to someone who's never coded just how difficult bugs can be to find - the more so when the bugs were first coded by someone who left the shop years ago, sometimes in a different language than is currently used, in code with no comments and little if any documentation.
(My personal least favorite was in the AF in the '80s, when we were trying to upgrade some old modules used in planning the SIOP. They were coded in FORTRAN. Not even FORTRAN 77, but the older version. And none of the original programmers were even still in the service, much less still assigned to Offutt AFB. Turned out to be quicker and easier to figure out what the code was supposed to do, then rewrite it ourselves in the language we were using - COBOL. Turing help the folks who have to maintain that code today!)
It should also be noted that CO uses some terrible spaghetti coding. Remember when the Nighthawk missions were added for a special event, and all the Chat died for a couple of weeks as a result? And the only way to fix spaghetti code is, again, to rip it all out and recode it from line 10. Not a quick process.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
Yeah, fixing bugs sucks and isn't usually easy work, but that's part of what coder's sign up for when they made that (often high-paying) career choice for a professional job.
I have some sympathy for programmers and engineers, but it only goes far. Many professional jobs have difficult tasks- that doesn't mean they should never be attempted.
"Difficult" is one thing. "Fixing every single bug in the code in one month" verges on the impossible.
"Science teaches us to expect -- demand -- more than just eerie mysteries. What use is a puzzle that can't be solved? Patience is fine, but I'm not going to stop asking the universe to make sense!"
"Difficult" is one thing. "Fixing every single bug in the code in one month" verges on the impossible.
The latter is not what I'd ask of them, though. Some headway into long-standing bugs would be nice, but to expect any MMO to be bug-free is outright silly imo.
Says someone who has never worked in software engineering.
Exactly. How would I know? I just the play the game and let the developers worry about bugs.
EDIT: I guess it would depend on the bug. I'm thinking more of an "Oops! We changed the name of Defender in RenCen to 'Power Armor Guy'" kind of bugs. What kind of bugs have people been finding?
EDIT: I guess it would depend on the bug. I'm thinking more of an "Oops! We changed the name of Defender in RenCen to 'Power Armor Guy'" kind of bugs. What kind of bugs have people been finding?
Typos I wouldn't even class as bugs, but even something as straightforward as 'find all the geometry holes and fix them' is a gigantic project.
Yeah, fixing bugs sucks and isn't usually easy work, but that's part of what coder's sign up for when they made that (often high-paying) career choice for a professional job.
I have some sympathy for programmers and engineers, but it only goes far. Many professional jobs have difficult tasks- that doesn't mean they should never be attempted.
Don't blame the developers. They're knee-deep in code not only written by people who aren't there any longer, they're also a much smaller team than the original. It's easy for a team of 30 guys to demolish 20 pizzas, but that becomes a more difficult task when you're just a handful of guys.
Don't blame the developers. They're knee-deep in code not only written by people who aren't there any longer, they're also a much smaller team than the original. It's easy for a team of 30 guys to demolish 20 pizzas, but that becomes a more difficult task when you're just a handful of guys.
Forgive the stupid analogy, I just woke up.
yeah, I'm not blaming CN. It seems like the original engine used for the game was overly convoluted and not up to the task for a dynamic world- def archaic by today's standards. Like, they can't get ground vehicles implemented or have traffic properly adjust to terrain w/o using a set track. Objects in this game are incredibly janky, and the basic targeting system is sluggish. Can't get the UI working in >5 man teams, pvp queues are basically messed up. Old items spilling out weird values and tooltips. Prob many other things I can't think of now.. all that show how much I'd rather they just make a CO 2 w/ a new engine, rather than patching up this creaky thing (pipe dream, I know).
Your petition is 4 years too late.
....
Let's play that the maze is Cryptic Engine. .........We're here right now:
...........................................................................................................................This is where we're supposed to be.
Since my heroes can fly, this was my solution to the maze.
-
Don't blame the developers. They're knee-deep in code not only written by people who aren't there any longer, they're also a much smaller team than the original. It's easy for a team of 30 guys to demolish 20 pizzas, but that becomes a more difficult task when you're just a handful of guys.
Forgive the stupid analogy, I just woke up.
If not devs, then blame is likely going to the management. When writing code there are some guidelines for future maintainance so if the original coder is gone it won't be too dificult for other devs to understand old code. At this point it would probably trace back to ATARI times.
If not devs, then blame is likely going to the management. When writing code there are some guidelines for future maintainance so if the original coder is gone it won't be too dificult for other devs to understand old code. At this point it would probably trace back to ATARI times.
In the same way it is desirable to give people credit for their achievements they should be also accountable for their mistakes. In that way, it is more likely to avoid the same or a similar mistake to be repeated in the future.
Because if nobody is to blame, then why are we complaining?
In the same way it is desirable to give people credit for their achievements they should be also accountable for their mistakes. In that way, it is more likely to avoid the same or a similar mistake to be repeated in the future.
Because if nobody is to blame, then why are we complaining?
We're complaining because the game isn't fulfilling certain needs that we feel it could fulfill because we have observed the potential for it to fulfill those needs and have varying ideas for what is standing in the way of it doing so. As an addendum to that, we have surmised that these needs will not be fulfilled anywhere else in the foreseeable future.
How is figuring out who to blame an effective tool in solving any of that? What do you envision will happen once we've all agreed on who is to blame?
We're complaining because the game isn't fulfilling certain needs that we feel it could fulfill because we have observed the potential for it to fulfill those needs and have varying ideas for what is standing in the way of it doing so. As an addendum to that, we have surmised that these needs will not be fulfilled anywhere else in the foreseeable future.
How is figuring out who to blame an effective tool in solving any of that? What do you envision will happen once we've all agreed on who is to blame?
nothing will happen either way really, nothing we say on here will affect a single thing really, and outside of a few contest design things, our actual affect on the game is the binary of pay/non pay, and that includes this thread, nothing will change anything with cryptic or pwi, and we will get what we get based solely on what pwi says we will get. its all pretty pointless really. people who are sick of it will continue leaving and the specific community that unconditionally accepts everything done here will still spend far too long yelling at any dissenters, but very little will be done and it certainly wont be done based on our feedback.
oh and zinger response..im waiting for them to take a full year ON.
We're complaining because the game isn't fulfilling certain needs that we feel it could fulfill because we have observed the potential for it to fulfill those needs and have varying ideas for what is standing in the way of it doing so. As an addendum to that, we have surmised that these needs will not be fulfilled anywhere else in the foreseeable future.
How is figuring out who to blame an effective tool in solving any of that? What do you envision will happen once we've all agreed on who is to blame?
If the game is not fulfilling your its potential is because either something that was done or something that was not done. Either way, in order to achieve this goal it is important to look for the source of the problem, which includes the group of people involved.
I am not sure which is your concern, the people who should take the most of the blame are, most likely, long gone from the game by now. Proper credit assignment is usually what professional companies' organization strive for, I don't understand why you are so reluctant about it.
If the game is not fulfilling your its potential is because either something that was done or something that was not done. Either way, in order to achieve this goal it is important to look for the source of the problem, which includes the group of people involved.
For that to be important, you have to explain what happens when we figure out who we decide to blame. Anything? Does anything happen? Because I think the opposite will happen.. nothing.
For sure not signed. The game needs money to stay alive. If you've got just a few people on your team and tight budgets then your options are:
1. Do everything you can to make enough $ in the short-term to justify your continued existence from one quarter to the next.
2. Do the above + address a few of the most critical long-term issues on an ongoing basis.
3. Shut things down and move on.
Most people do #3. We seem to be at #1 through the sheer will and effort of CN, for which I am very thankful. We'll hopefully make headway into #2, but it may take some time.
Cash is the oxygen of a business. It has to be your first priority - then you can worry about longer term stuff like food and shelter. Given all the lockboxes coming out, it's pretty safe to say that no one can afford to take even a single quarter off of the current release cycle let alone a full year.
For that to be important, you have to explain what happens when we figure out who we decide to blame. Anything? Does anything happen? Because I think the opposite will happen.. nothing.
So if the people to blame are gone... then what will pointing fingers at them do?
Oh, are you a Cryptic executive now?
Not sure, how to answer this. It seems that you are taking Cryptic's defense too seriously.
Fine, they can take your year off doing whatever they want, including playing dcuo.:biggrin:
Not sure, how to answer this. It seems that you are taking Cryptic's defense too seriously.
Fine, they can take your year off doing whatever they want, including playing dcuo.:biggrin:
To correct you, you were taking the "find who to blame" thing too seriously, and I was tearing apart your entire logic for doing so... which was easy, because it was about as flimsy as a wet tissue.
It can be safely assumed that all the code-scanning and understanding stuff is being done as it comes along. So, while we keep getting odd new things, CN hopefully and slowly gets more skilled with the tools.
Comments
Your petition is 4 years too late.
....
Let's play that the maze is Cryptic Engine.
.........We're here right now:
...........................................................................................................................This is where we're supposed to be.
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Forum petitions are nicely melodramatic, but otherwise pointless.
Who cares?
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Not any DR devs though. CO does not need (nor want) time gates and super uber elite queues on top of alt-hostile systems.
That... that actually looks like it would be fun.
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
(My personal least favorite was in the AF in the '80s, when we were trying to upgrade some old modules used in planning the SIOP. They were coded in FORTRAN. Not even FORTRAN 77, but the older version. And none of the original programmers were even still in the service, much less still assigned to Offutt AFB. Turned out to be quicker and easier to figure out what the code was supposed to do, then rewrite it ourselves in the language we were using - COBOL. Turing help the folks who have to maintain that code today!)
It should also be noted that CO uses some terrible spaghetti coding. Remember when the Nighthawk missions were added for a special event, and all the Chat died for a couple of weeks as a result? And the only way to fix spaghetti code is, again, to rip it all out and recode it from line 10. Not a quick process.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I have some sympathy for programmers and engineers, but it only goes far. Many professional jobs have difficult tasks- that doesn't mean they should never be attempted.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
The latter is not what I'd ask of them, though. Some headway into long-standing bugs would be nice, but to expect any MMO to be bug-free is outright silly imo.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Exactly. How would I know? I just the play the game and let the developers worry about bugs.
EDIT: I guess it would depend on the bug. I'm thinking more of an "Oops! We changed the name of Defender in RenCen to 'Power Armor Guy'" kind of bugs. What kind of bugs have people been finding?
Epic Stronghold
Block timing explained
Don't blame the developers. They're knee-deep in code not only written by people who aren't there any longer, they're also a much smaller team than the original. It's easy for a team of 30 guys to demolish 20 pizzas, but that becomes a more difficult task when you're just a handful of guys.
Forgive the stupid analogy, I just woke up.
yeah, I'm not blaming CN. It seems like the original engine used for the game was overly convoluted and not up to the task for a dynamic world- def archaic by today's standards. Like, they can't get ground vehicles implemented or have traffic properly adjust to terrain w/o using a set track. Objects in this game are incredibly janky, and the basic targeting system is sluggish. Can't get the UI working in >5 man teams, pvp queues are basically messed up. Old items spilling out weird values and tooltips. Prob many other things I can't think of now.. all that show how much I'd rather they just make a CO 2 w/ a new engine, rather than patching up this creaky thing (pipe dream, I know).
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Since my heroes can fly, this was my solution to the maze.
-
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
If not devs, then blame is likely going to the management. When writing code there are some guidelines for future maintainance so if the original coder is gone it won't be too dificult for other devs to understand old code. At this point it would probably trace back to ATARI times.
Why is figuring out who to blame important?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
In the same way it is desirable to give people credit for their achievements they should be also accountable for their mistakes. In that way, it is more likely to avoid the same or a similar mistake to be repeated in the future.
Because if nobody is to blame, then why are we complaining?
We're complaining because the game isn't fulfilling certain needs that we feel it could fulfill because we have observed the potential for it to fulfill those needs and have varying ideas for what is standing in the way of it doing so. As an addendum to that, we have surmised that these needs will not be fulfilled anywhere else in the foreseeable future.
How is figuring out who to blame an effective tool in solving any of that? What do you envision will happen once we've all agreed on who is to blame?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
oh and zinger response..im waiting for them to take a full year ON.
If the game is not fulfilling your its potential is because either something that was done or something that was not done. Either way, in order to achieve this goal it is important to look for the source of the problem, which includes the group of people involved.
I am not sure which is your concern, the people who should take the most of the blame are, most likely, long gone from the game by now. Proper credit assignment is usually what professional companies' organization strive for, I don't understand why you are so reluctant about it.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Unlimited funding is a fantasy... Sure you could do anything with unlimited funding. But thats an impossibility too.
For that to be important, you have to explain what happens when we figure out who we decide to blame. Anything? Does anything happen? Because I think the opposite will happen.. nothing.
So if the people to blame are gone... then what will pointing fingers at them do?
Oh, are you a Cryptic executive now?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Sure, I'll join you and Caliga.
#CONQUERDEADSUPERGROUP
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
1. Do everything you can to make enough $ in the short-term to justify your continued existence from one quarter to the next.
2. Do the above + address a few of the most critical long-term issues on an ongoing basis.
3. Shut things down and move on.
Most people do #3. We seem to be at #1 through the sheer will and effort of CN, for which I am very thankful. We'll hopefully make headway into #2, but it may take some time.
Cash is the oxygen of a business. It has to be your first priority - then you can worry about longer term stuff like food and shelter. Given all the lockboxes coming out, it's pretty safe to say that no one can afford to take even a single quarter off of the current release cycle let alone a full year.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑・ิᴗ・ิ)۶٩(・ิᴗ・ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Not sure, how to answer this. It seems that you are taking Cryptic's defense too seriously.
Fine, they can take your year off doing whatever they want, including playing dcuo.:biggrin:
Pssst, I'm not actually looking for signatures ~.^ a master troll like you should have spotted that right away
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
To correct you, you were taking the "find who to blame" thing too seriously, and I was tearing apart your entire logic for doing so... which was easy, because it was about as flimsy as a wet tissue.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You wont mind if I kick you then
thats a JK btw :P
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
black text isn't even close to invisible tho, git gud
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Sorry my bad!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Yo but git gud tho.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Wuts this thread about again?
blargyboo!
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Nah, git gud.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It doesn't matter what you're looking for. Guess I'm not the master troll you think I am.
PARSER USAGE GUIDE: click here for an easy how-to ٩(๑・ิᴗ・ิ)۶٩(・ิᴗ・ิ๑)۶
Spectre beats Eido in an SG run: VIDEO HERE
Fine u3u ur no TuffTeddy that's for sure.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
Original u3u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It can be safely assumed that all the code-scanning and understanding stuff is being done as it comes along. So, while we keep getting odd new things, CN hopefully and slowly gets more skilled with the tools.
Thank u3u you u3u weeaboo u3u.
Click here to check out my costumes/milleniumguardian (MG) in-game/We need more tights, stances and moods
On the internet, everyone is a girl. :>
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)