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give us a vehicle weapon exchange for nerfed weapons
jasinblaze
Posts: 1,366 Arc User
in the past players have gotten refunds for prototype vehicles. now with the amount of q involved
that would be too much to refund.
my suggestion is give us an in game vendor that allows us to exchange plasma beams for different weapons. this would be in the spirit of retcons when other powers are nerfed. allow us to redo our vehicles.
i realize that balancing was in order but allow us to retcon our vehicles please.
that would be too much to refund.
my suggestion is give us an in game vendor that allows us to exchange plasma beams for different weapons. this would be in the spirit of retcons when other powers are nerfed. allow us to redo our vehicles.
i realize that balancing was in order but allow us to retcon our vehicles please.
Post edited by jasinblaze on
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RIP Caine
XS
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
People are screaming and crying about "losing their time/money/etc" with the loss of Plasma Beam (or more correctly, Shared Plasma Shear Stacking).
By itself, solo, it was a decent weapon...even the stacking was okay. The problem was the stacking of 'shear' was shared. Mine, yours, his, all added together, giving massive dps in groups.
Any ability, power, gear, clicky device, etc, that lets a toon just out of the tutorial -beat- a carefully min/maxed dps endgame power toon in a damage race is almost certainly either bugged, or being combined with something allowing bugged behavior.
Any trick that lets a tutorial level toon "out gun" an end game power dps toon, that is in fact so powerful, that if you don't have it, you will lose, is almost certainly broken.
"Everyone" knew it, people in /zone, /trade and /rampagers were crowing about it, and all the people that were after it had to be able to see that something had to be wrong with it.
I'd bet good money, that the majority of people using it -knew- that it was broken, and that the shared shear stacking was pretty much an exploit move...but -everyone- knew that if dps matters, and it's "outside", its "Go Plasma Shear or Go Home".
Did I use it? Heck yes, PBr2, from a vehicle I purchaced, so I could "keep up with the joneses". PB3 honestly wasn't needed, it was never about the weapon, it was always about the Shear.
Do I "want my money back" from "the cruel, heartless, meanie-faces" at Cryptic/PWE for "taking my totally not broken toy away from me"? Not really.
Sure, some people blew tons of globals or questonite or salvage getting those things.
However, to say "here, have all your money back, in whatever form, as an apology from us to you, for our stopping an exploit item" is the wrong thing to do.
Pretty much everyone knew it was broken, knew it was an exploit of a bugged mechanic, and didn't care...you wanted to "win" you needed the silly thing.
It wasn't until the stupid thing BROKE THE GAME that it was dealt with. Until the anniversary event, and the old "600+ total stacks of -anything- breaks the damage" bug was shoved in people's faces, did anything change.
It wasn't shear that did it, it's an old base code thing, too many effects, of any kind, from any source, and the game can't track damage done to the target. It was only everyone and their roboguppy using that one trick (with the cumulative stacks on target) that forced the issue to be confronted.
If a "refund" is offered, for people having a -known- (by the devs, even if "they" honestly didn't know and never considered) exploit device fixed, then it says "go ahead, exploit, cheat, etc, and we'll reward you for doing so".
Did they over-correct plasma beam? IMO yes, the cost/dmg adjustments -plus- taking shear away, are too much.
Do they "owe us" for "unfairly taking away our hard earned stuff" by making Plasma Beam "useless"? IMO no, too many people knew it was an exploit, and were too public about the subject, for me to believe that the majority of people throwing money (game or RW) at the item didn't know it would eventually be "fixed".
tl;dr
The power was bugged, most of us knew, the rest didn't want to. They fixed it, why should they "recompense us" for fixing an exploit we were hammering?
"Good can be found in heights, even in the deepest pits of evil" but "The valleys of evil always exist in the mountains of good."
~me
Plasma Beam's overpowering output for Vehicle Mark 2s was reported on PTS well before it went live. Cryptic assured us that in that state it was working as intended.
That defeats your entire argument.
Link?
....
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
I fully agree it's reasonable to make such an assumption, but my point was we can't say things like "they promised this and that" when that never happened.
As for the current balance, I think none disagrees the energy cost is too high now (even Kaiserin said so while she's been the most vocal about wanting PB changed). If PB is truly considered a useless weapon now, I think it would be easier and better for both cryptic and players to revert the energy cost changes then to implement "new tech" for exchanging weapons.
Plasma Beam has never been overpowered, the Plasma Shear however has always been bugged in that it stacks and shares with everyone else using Plasma Beam.
I would like the link about how "yes, everyone can share plasma shear, this is working as intended though" when I know for a fact (they fixed it recently, there's my fact, link to follow) that it was broken.
http://co-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?p=4462151#post4462151
Scroll down, they took plasma shear out.
Now, shear (not beam, just shear) has been known to be broken for some time, every day you could see conversations in /zone, /trade and /rampagers about it.
Thus, with a decent level of accuracy, one can say "pretty much everyone knew, and either didn't care, or didn't want to know" about the fact that it was basically an exploit.
People using it in large part knew, the devs knew and kept trying to make adjustments (why they didn't just get rid of it in the first place I don't know), and finally, they took it away.
It was an exploit, like using a specific device and a specific power in a specific place in a specific combination to auto-win, and when they got rid of it, people that got the most powerful version of said exploit possible, want their money back.
Everyone who was using it should have known they were going to get rid of it eventually, and either not gotten "the biggest, most expensive version" or said "okay, while it's there, I'll use it" and just accepted it would be taken away at some point.
No game considers a device/power/etc that can allow tutorial level toons to outgun well equipped end game min/max toons "fair, balanced, and WAI". Why people expected CO to be different is beyond me.
That said, I'm not opposed to refunds.
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this thread ins't about if the nerf was justified.
i too thought plasma was OP
but...
this thread is about wanting an exchange
stay on topic there are other threads to talk about whether the nerf was justified or not
take your argument there
So, to get this back on topic (hopefully w/o WoT)...
Data points I base my opinion on:
1: The device "plasma beam"s secondary effect "plasma shear" was lauded by people in /zone, /trade and /rampagers as being "indispensable" for any situation where speed damage mattered.
2: It was known that for "plasma shear" to be useful, you needed multiple people using plasma beam.
3: It was possible to drop the Bleak Harbringer in the Lemurian Invasion Rampage in one cycle with a group of Plasma Beam vehicles...to the point that PQs (private queue) for that fight said "LFM # People, Must Have Vehicle w/Plasma Beam".
4: So called "end game min/max'ers" in full teams of 5, could be routinely beaten in a dps race against a group of random mixed level toons who only had "in a vehicle with plasma beam" in common.
5: Plasma Beam's secondary effect Plasma Shear was a "make or break" device...if you didn't have it, you would lose (or be excluded in the case of LI PQs).
6: Plasma Beam was modified multiple times, trying to "fix shear"...and in the end, had 'plasma shear' removed.
7: I have yet to see a verifiable instance of "yes, plasma shear, which can stack into the hundreds and cumulatively shares the effect with all other plasma beam users, is actually how it's supposed to be" from any Cryptic/PWE Dev.
Conclusion: The device was working incorrectly, and was, after many attempts finally removed. (I say 'removed' as the current device bears only cosmetic relationship to the original.)
Opinion: This sounds to me like "yes, this is an exploit" could be accurate.
Thus, I say "no, cryptic/pwe doesn't 'owe' us a refund, nor do they 'owe' us a replacement". People should never expect 'compensation' for having an exploit fixed.
The word "exploit" doesn't mean what you seem to think it means. It's like saying the use of Two-Gun Mojo is an exploit. The fact that developers were still unable to get the balance right after multiple reviews over the course of two years says more about the developers than the players. Players shouldn't have to be the ones that pay the price for Cryptic's admitted mistakes.
I rarely respond to posts that are borderline troll-bait, but the fact that you're so vociferously opposed to players getting fair compensation that you would categorize them as exploiters makes me wonder where the hate is coming from. By the way, did you read Taco's farewell message?
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
galant is as much saddened by taco's departure as anyone. I think he is responding reactively more to the why was it nerfed comments earlier. compensation would help the community much. there is a precedent for it.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
why not go to the thread already asking that instead of trolling and derailing?
this thread is asking for an exchange , why dont you make a post asking for a refund
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
This argument is pointless though because companies NEVER think about future and overall revenue and only think about the dollar they can get right now. Its how economies die and the companies responsible crash and burns.