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SpinnyTop's Review of Mechanon Part 2
spinnytop
Posts: 16,467 Arc User
NOTE: I solo'd it so my perception of it may not be as intended... though it can only be skewed in a good way since it wouldn't have been more fun in a group.
Appearance - All the explosions were very cool.
Sound - All the explosions were very cool.
Combat - All the explosions were very cool.
Trash Mobs - It never went beyond "just aoe everything down", even while solo, even without an optimized toon. I just auto-targeted the closest thing and spammed attacks. Typical mindless CO fun. Would be nice to have an option to skip this part since it's obviously just a time sink.
Boss Fight - The boss fight was neat. The early parts were a bit tedious, but once I was actually fighting Mr. Robotpants there was actually stuff to pay attention to that he was doing. Had I, for example, just mindlessly pushed buttons, I would have probably died repeatedly. Nothing he did required anything beyond "hold block", and any other "challenge" was the usual business you have to do when dealing with a mob that has high dps and lots of hit points, but he was quite fun and exciting compared to everything that lead up to him thus far.
Conclusion - Hopefully the next part leaves out the trash mobs, and the boss fight steps up the complexity a bit more.
Appearance - All the explosions were very cool.
Sound - All the explosions were very cool.
Combat - All the explosions were very cool.
Trash Mobs - It never went beyond "just aoe everything down", even while solo, even without an optimized toon. I just auto-targeted the closest thing and spammed attacks. Typical mindless CO fun. Would be nice to have an option to skip this part since it's obviously just a time sink.
Boss Fight - The boss fight was neat. The early parts were a bit tedious, but once I was actually fighting Mr. Robotpants there was actually stuff to pay attention to that he was doing. Had I, for example, just mindlessly pushed buttons, I would have probably died repeatedly. Nothing he did required anything beyond "hold block", and any other "challenge" was the usual business you have to do when dealing with a mob that has high dps and lots of hit points, but he was quite fun and exciting compared to everything that lead up to him thus far.
Conclusion - Hopefully the next part leaves out the trash mobs, and the boss fight steps up the complexity a bit more.
Post edited by spinnytop on
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Dear spinny,
Will you marry me?
Yours affectionately,
Michael Bay
An eloquent and 100% accurate assessment. Well done.
More action at Champions Online Comics @ http://co-comics.webs.com
The thing I remember most from Mr. Mechaknock was mindlessly bashing lunge button a soon as it came out of cooldown because of his repeated knocks.
Well, to be fair, the alternative would be that your lunge just sits there on your hot bar looking sad because it's just wasting space :<
Knocks give lunges a reason to exist! ( o3o)/
The character I did the fight on has 5* strength, in case you were wondering >.>
* - or whatever the bare minimum is.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
you sure you did the right mission? If you did you clearly did it with a freeform champ with a self heal.
I've tried doing the steel crusade daily's and i cant solo them at all. My lvl 40 solder has to face plant 20 times just to complete the second rescue missing in the persons head. I tried the one in space and the frist 3 pack of mobs past the blast doors just eat me alive.
scaling with level is a lie. my lvl 18 brute had the same results. I have stop doing the dailies cause they are just too hard
I even had a lvl 40 guildy who was The Unleashed AT and i was a lvl 18 Grimoire sidekicked to lvl 40 and we still had trouble doing the last mission and couldnt beat the boss at all.
Scaling with level is a lie. and i'm sad. I was excited about it too.
You also have to remember this is built for 3 heroes of average builds, not a single one.
It is perfectly possible to made through three first dailies on the Soldier AT. Maybe not on elite, but then there's no point in doing it on elite.
The only reason why I'm not doing it again and again with the Soldier is because with freeform or the Savage it's just easier and faster. But the thing is doable with no deaths.
I agreee that no squishy AT (and probably some of the squishy FFs as well) can do the last cislunar mission, but Brain Freeze and Waste Transmission are doable.
Honestly I was surprised even with middle-lvl freeforms. I did the patients with a lvl.17 LR tank and had to be more careful than usual on Brainfreeze. My lvl.32 AoPM "dps" really had trouble on Hard with it. I gues that to solo it with an Offensive Archetype needs a lot of "potions"!
I actually found it refreshing from the usually very easy missions!
The last mission was impossible to solo on Hard with the Lvl.32.... but we did it in a duo, and I shouldered 90% of the final fight. Honestly once you get the rythmin of the fight Mechanon is not too hard as long as you have decent self healing abilities.
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Yeah but to know about that you gotta pick up the item, read about what it does, and equip it and use it during the fight with the boss...
that is just way too hard.
Easier just to complain about the knocks.
And then you have nut jobs like me who play a melee main and deliberately ignore the stability belt because it makes the fight feel more epic.
Don't judge me.
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Not very relevant, considering that boring tedium knockback spam does not comes from Mechanon, but from minions on the way to him. 1 sec self-inflicted root won't keep you in place when knocks are spammed by two or three of them.
And both my toons used for farming this mission use combo attacks, so it's not like zero G or being pushed back can prevent me from attacking. Or prevent frm clicking Unleashed Rage.
It's not even difficult. It's just boring and tedious when instead of environments you experience mostly wall textures and limited viewpoint.
Well, 2000 Q per run is enough to bother. It can be anyway played with eyes closed. Brace yourself back to the wall, taunt the group, kill them, taunt the next group.
It's just said it's the most interesting thing this mission had to offer. So much hype. For so little.
Weeelll... Mayyyyybe if CC wasn't nuked to the ground with On Alert, mobs could use some more diverse moves.
Certainly easier than pretend an intelligent person, you should know something about it. But just because you had difficulty with reading device tooltips do not assume everyone else is that "brilliant"...
I judge you....
Awesome!
I'm probably missing something, or maybe it's because I played mostly on Sho Nuff who's over 300 STR, but I've never been knocked by anything on the way to Mechanon yet. Which minions are knocking you around?
Also, this...
directly contradicts this...
...making it appear like you're changing your commentary for some strange reason...
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The big robot dudes use Roomsweeper and (I think) Haymaker.
the belt roots you...
i didnt think roots gave knockback resistance
can we get a confirmation on this?
The minion knocks are the melee villain-class brawlers using Haymaker and Roomsweeper. The Mark XLI has two knocks: In all stages of the fight, it uses Chest Beam, which hurts like a mother with or without the knock, so if you don't block it, you may die anyway. And in the force field stage, it uses a chain of single-fire missiles to try and push you into the force fields, which are the main source of damage in that part of the fight.
Ranged with flight, so Stability Belt would be counter-productive, but any solo fight with Cislunar is epic by definition. (Besides, once Prime gets through the robot arm stage, Chest Beam is the only attack that can really hurt her. I should record a staged RP run with two other players where they keep the robot arms down, then sit back and watch as Prime points out the deficiencies in Mark XLI's implementation.)
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
wink wink.
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I did it with a freeform using Personal Force Field o3o
Archetypes are meant to be played in a group using trinity mechanics. You didn't have a tank or a healer, so that's why it didn't work.
The event does in fact scale with level. It, however, does not scale with the gimp-level of your character, which is going to be pretty high with archetypes. Try to bring a tank next time
I will also do the mission with you if I happen the be logged in. @foxiandfriends
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Hi,
My name is SpinnyTop. I complain about the game not being exciting and actiony enough, and I'm here to disagree with the comment above. Knocks are one of the few things in this game keeping it exciting and actiony... if you're to the point where you're calling knocks boring and tedious, then it's time for you to move on to another game.
Sincerely,
Oh right, I already gave my name above... and we're on a forum... I am a potato.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Makes me think it would be more interesting in Mechanon's hideout if killer robos were using Binding Shots or knock-to powers.
Also, henchmen class nanobot spiders in the Brain Freeze mission could use their rate of self-replication increased.
Only today I did notice the lowliest of them also are self-replicating, because most of the time they're dead before they could do it.
Are you winking because you know what you just said makes no sense? o.o If I punch you with my super strong punch, it doesn't matter if you're underwater, you're gonna go flying. Especially in zero-G you're gonna go flying... hella further in fact.
Knocks are fun. Stuns are okay too. Add roots and snares in there as well. Don't forget repels.
Also was it just me or did some of the new NPCs seem to move really fast.. like super speed speeds?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Can you solo Mechanon with your Unleashed?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Water may be more resistive than what's expected on land but is not resistive enough to stop something from being thrown in a path due to forceful impact.
In a zero gravity environment like space, there are no resistive forces like air or water so logically something that is caused to fly from being hit hard will fly even further than expected.
Except you are not falling down, which kills large part of utility of knockback powers as well as their dynamics, be they are used by NPCs or players.
They simply don't matter that much because no fall damage. And everything is more static as well. They're just repels.
On the Cislunar map with all tubes and devices around they also limit your viewpoint by pushing upward into ceiling and objects there. Which isn't very high on aesthetics.
But I guess you simply have very low requirements to be entertained.
Yes, gameplay wise knocks do lose a large part of their appeal if there's no falling down. It makes sense if you are using your brain. Try it, it's not very hard.
You're not the only nutjob. Some days you just wanna let go on a mook with that fully-charged haymaker.
Even better when they try to backup out of range so you're chasing them while cocking and charging the haymaker.
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Whatever form knockback takes in different environments (ground, air, underwater, zero-g), the design principle remains the same: Break the timing of opponents' attacks, whether it's by the momentary stun or by knocking them out of range, and force opponents to pay attention to their position in the combat area (i.e. don't stand at the edge of the roof).
This is why I hate the brawler spam in the corridors of Cislunar, but I love the the Mark XLI fight, especially the force field stage. The corridors are too small to maneuver in, making the knocks a nuisance more than a tactic. (The camera-blocking conduits certainly don't help, but LoS-breaking corners and doorways do.)
Mark XLI, on the other hand, is the opposite of spank'n'tank. It demands mobility. Who cares if it's spamming knockbacks? You're not supposed to be standing still! (Floating still?) The challenge isn't to hold your ground, but to control Mark XLI's movement with your own. A good boxer can lead his opponent into a location in the ring where he has an advantage, whether that's the middle or the ropes. Depending on the stage of the fight, you can move Mark XLI the same way. I like to control the perimeter and set picks off the broken pylons during the robot arm stage, then switch to a radial alignment, parallel to the force fields, in the second stage.
The more I run Cislunar, the more I appreciate the design of that encounter.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
So basically, this fight is only tactical in the sense that you should have a ranged power that doesn't root you so you can forever kite to avoid being knocked into the ceiling?
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Except when they interrupt a charged or maintained attack; also the whole preventing you from doing anything while you're flying back, even if you don't hit the ground. Did you know that there is a travel power in this game that simulates the zero-g environment? It's called flight, many characters have it. It prevents that hitting the ground thing too, and yet knocks have managed to remain relevant towards flying characters for years.
You're getting your face mashed into the wall cause you got sent flying. Ironically the way to get around this is turning your camera towards the wall.
Yes... that makes total sense. You want them to start removing mechanics, making the fights more bland. Yet I, who wants more mechanics, am the one with low requirements. Indeed meed, indeed.
Your brain forgot about a lot of things. Go ahead and reread the first part of my post if it forgot them again already. Speaking of which, have you sorted it whether earlier in the thread you were talking about mechanon's knocks or not? Kenpo asked about that and oddly enough you just kind of didn't respond... it's actually important that you clear that up so we can acknowledge the correct context of your complaints.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Everytime this happens I get a glimmer in my eye and hope it's the game engine learning owo
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Powers like force cascade also do tons of damage tho, so that's why it's okay that they root. I mean, if the rooting is an issue, you could just take another power that doesn't root you... but you chose power over utility
Personally I found the knock heavy fight in zero g pretty great. In some ways, better than a knock heavy fight on the ground. We don't get enough epic mid-air battles in this game.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If he wants to get any power on his punches, he does. Maybe he can move a bit while throwing jabs, but for a strong hook? He sets his feet and puts his thighs into the rotation. Notice that in many MMOs, the attacks that root are usually the attacks that do more damage. And dodging may be a d100 roll, but blocking is an active skill. Keep your gloves up at all times.
"Kiting" may be a dirty word in open world encounters or if you're trying to drag a boss out of his room. But if you're locked in the room with it, why not use all the space you need? In most encounters, the boss moves you. (See also: Warlord, Don't Stand In The Fire.) This is one where you can move the boss. I'm not saying my technique would work for every ranged toon, let alone melee. But after facing bosses who are rooted (Kigatilik, Warlord, Bleaky, the Roin'esh General, Cybermind, Gravitar) or barely move (Endbringer, Clarence, Anniversary Mega-Ds), it's refreshing to see a boss who's a willing dance partner.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Eh, I guess I've just played games too much. In the Mech-Mark-XL1 fight I just picked a corner with a lip, turned on the Regen and wore him down. If there was a force-field stage, I must have cheesed my way through it.
With that said, I see hella problems with my level 40 ATs. So, that should be fun.
Overall, it's a nice clean encounter. I give it a thumbs up!
OKKKKAAAAAAAY then....O_o"
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
Any good boxer punching for power self-roots and drives through and from the floor. Volume punchers who are trying to score points however ignore this because KO power isn't their concern.
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How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
As for the dodge on demand, I mean pushing a button to dodge instead of relying on RNGesus to grant me this lucky dodge. (Have YOU praised RNGesus today?)
And still didn't care for the roboguy fight.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Now you have me wishing CO had double-tap dodging on WASD like Unreal Tournament. I have no idea how that works in a tab-targeting MMO, but I don't think it's unsolvable.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
Guild Wars 2 has double tap dodging and tab-targeting so you're spot on in that it's generally not unsolvable.
My Amazon author page
How to build a freeform character...the Kenpo way
Demon Keypo's Building Guide
Freeform Builds Directory (Last updated: 04/23/2016)
Serving since September, 2009 / 65 Characters, 63 Level 40's
invincibility frames is one way. Another way is to give the player 100% dodge and avoidance chance during the dodge animation.
It's not as if the idea is insane or something... we already have powers that move players around, like evasive maneuvers, lunges, and that one power in dual pistols that nobody uses. The problem with those powers is that it counts you as being at the point of origin until the power finishes casting, meaning it functions more as a delayed teleport than a dodge.
It's unlikely they would use double-tap for it; more likely they would bake it into powers like those, and maybe add a few more.
It's unlikely they would do that at all though because it doesn't match their design philosophy. CO is a strict RNGesus cult.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yes, I know, it's a lot of words. Just fill a sandwich baggy with ice and set it on your head o3o
My super cool CC build and how to use it.