"Find the Mark" and "Trapped".

williamkony · July 2014

When I get into the build-tweaking mood, I really take over this subforum, huh?

I have questions on two different Specialization tree options.

First, Find the Mark in the Guardian tree. The icon is applied to the enemy. Does the critical rate increase affect allies, as well, or just you?

Second, Trapped in the Overseer tree. In the "Guide to Spec Trees" stickied thread, Sage comments on Trapped saying "If you use Paralyze-type Holds or Sleeps, take this. Your team will thank you." Does Ego Sleep actually trigger this Specialization, or was he mistaken?

Basically, I'm revamping my Specializations on Toolbox, my switcharoo-ing versatility character. I originally had Guardian and Vindicator for the Offense/Defense feedback loops, but I've switched to have Sentinel for the various supportive abilities, as it gave healing for my tank and support modes and Wither which still helps my damage mode. The problem is, I'm not sure what to use for the second tree. My tank mode is doing wonderfully, and my support mode is performing "well enough" considering that I lack a direct heal at the moment (trying to get Become Celestial for when my shielding is inadequate). My damage mode has taken a considerable step back, however, and even though I still seem to be able to dole out enough damage to take the boss' threat in most Alerts, I feel it should be higher. If I can just further boost my team's damage output (and my own in the same swoop), however, that works out fine, too.

flowcyto · July 2014

williamkony wrote: »

First, Find the Mark in the Guardian tree. The icon is applied to the enemy. Does the critical rate increase affect allies, as well, or just you?

Judging by the wording on the tooltip specifying 'your' attacks, no. But I'll give it a quick test for ya:

2.2% player crit (base), 3/3 find the mark, used TGM to keep it stacked to 3 nearly the whole time, using R3 attack toys:

TYPE                          DURATION  DAMAGE  ENCDPS  DPS     AVERAGE  CRIT%  MEDIAN  MINHIT  MAXHIT  HITS  AVGDELAY  BASEDAMAGE  RESIST%  
All                           03:16     47,832  240.85  243.42  87.28    8%     69      47      253     548   0.39      55,985      14%      
Diminutive Drubbing           03:13     15,735  79.23   81.32   87.42    7%     69      58      209     180   1.09      18,404      14%      
Tiny Thrashing                03:08     15,642  78.76   82.81   86.90    9%     70      58      218     180   1.08      18,262      14%      
Miniature Mashup              03:09     15,569  78.39   82.16   86.02    7%     68      58      224     181   1.09      18,301      14%      
Mighty Micro Rocket Launcher  02:34     839     4.22    5.42    139.83   0%     101     89      253     6     77.35     962         12%      
Frag Grenade                  00:00     47      0.24    0.00    47.00    0%     47      47      47      1     NaN       56          16%

Pets should have ~6-8% base crit if FtM didn't work for them, 14-17% if it did. Test came up in the 7-9% range, so I'd say 'no' to FtM extending to allies.

Second, Trapped in the Overseer tree. In the "Guide to Spec Trees" stickied thread, Sage comments on Trapped saying "If you use Paralyze-type Holds or Sleeps, take this. Your team will thank you." Does Ego Sleep actually trigger this Specialization, or was he mistaken?

Also testing this out now- its a 'negative' to Trapped working for: Ego Sleep, Ego Placate, and the confuses. Trapped specifies Paralyzes, Incapacitates, and Roots only. Sleeps, placates, and confuses aren't technically any of those three.

jamesbonnell · July 2014

I like sentinel + sentry.

I'm a fan of Twist Fate... When it works with your eb, anyway.

Added kinetic darts to list it does not work with, annoyingly.

Won't help DPs much but for a multi-role character, I find it useful.

$.02

flowcyto · July 2014

since it was an edit I missed:

Basically, I'm revamping my Specializations on Toolbox, my switcharoo-ing versatility character. I originally had Guardian and Vindicator for the Offense/Defense feedback loops, but I've switched to have Sentinel for the various supportive abilities, as it gave healing for my tank and support modes and Wither which still helps my damage mode. The problem is, I'm not sure what to use for the second tree. My tank mode is doing wonderfully, and my support mode is performing "well enough" considering that I lack a direct heal at the moment (trying to get Become Celestial for when my shielding is inadequate). My damage mode has taken a considerable step back, however, and even though I still seem to be able to dole out enough damage to take the boss' threat in most Alerts, I feel it should be higher. If I can just further boost my team's damage output (and my own in the same swoop), however, that works out fine, too.

Fitting spec trees just depends on the build itself and ur own goals. W/o seeing the build, its kinda hard for me to give a recommendation. What toggle and stats are ya using? Any blasts or maintains? Other CC moves? A melee combo?

Could also just post the build, I guess

williamkony · July 2014

flowcyto wrote: »

since it was an edit I missed:

Fitting spec trees just depends on the build itself and ur own goals. W/o seeing the build, its kinda hard for me to give a recommendation. What toggle and stats are ya using? Any blasts or maintains? Other CC moves? A melee combo?

Could also just post the build, I guess

I suppose I could, yeah.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Presence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Energized
Level 6: Tireless
Level 9: Impresario
Level 12: Quick Recovery
Level 15: Negotiator
Level 18: Lasting Impression
Level 21: Amazing Stamina

Powers:
Level 1: Radiance
Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Night Warrior (Rank 2, Rank 3, Silent Running)
Level 11: Defiance
Level 14: Devour Essence (Crippling Challenge)
Level 17: Palliate (Absolve)
Level 20: Compassion
Level 23: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 26: Ego Sleep (Plagued by Nightmares, Nailed to the Ground)
Level 29: Mindful Reinforcement (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 38: Resurgence (Rank 2, Evanescent Emergence)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Ninja Vanish
Level 35: Swinging

Specializations:
Presence: Repurpose (1/3)
Presence: Selfless Ally (2/2)
Presence: Dominion (2/2)
Presence: Moment of Glory (3/3)
Presence: Vulnerability (2/2)
Sentinel: Torment (2/2)
Sentinel: Caregiver (1/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Wither (2/2)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Mastery: Sentinel Mastery (1/1)

I hotkey-switch between three different builds, predominately. Offense, in Ranged Damage role with Intelligence-stacking. Defense, in Tank role with Constitution-stacking. And Support, in Support role with Presence-stacking.

As stated, it had been Guardian/Vindicator before. I'm not sure exactly how much my attack power dropped from switching trees (or how much it went back up thanks to Sentinel's Wither effect), but through testing, taking Guardian again seems to bump the damage output up by about 10-15%.

Overseer is what I had switched to, thinking that Sentinel Aura would trigger Honor... Which it didn't. With Trapped also being a bust, I'm thinking I can get more out of some other tree.

Protector is a tree that I'm fond of, with Bulwark, Exhausting Strikes, Resolute, Unrelenting... A lot of fun specializations. But the tree does nothing whatsoever for my damage role, which has taken quite a few hits in this latest tweaking-spree.

As a side-note, I'm also iffy on Resurgence and, to a lesser extent, Force Shield. I had Bountiful Chi Resurgence and Rebuke before, with Rebuke being my Crippling Challenge power, but it was nowhere near potent enough in threat generation for my tank setup. I switched them both out, taking Devour Essence instead, and the second power slot has been bouncing around for a bit. Resurgence helps by giving a very powerful heal for tank mode as well as providing a way to break out of holds, but it's also admittedly a bit boring. I lack a direct healing power right now, but was hoping I could grab Become Celestial to handle healing when needed, with Mindful Reinforcement handling teammate health upkeep otherwise. Beyond that, there are a lot of interesting powers to choose from, and I'm simply not sure where to go with it if the Become Celestial thing works and negates my need for a healing power.

flowcyto · July 2014

So, three slotted passives.. hmm.
I know its a switcher/versatile build, but that seems a bit excessive. I'd prob just stick w/ 2 of them to streamline things a bit.

Pres PSS isn't a great choice for the multi-build, tbh. Vulnerability and Moment of Glory are great, but the up-time of Vuln won't be too high w/ only Ego Sleep to work from.

I may keep Sentinel, even w/o a power to proc Wither, just cause then ya can auto-stack Compassion w/o needing something like Seraphim or MN. It won't be a dps-oriented pick, but the heal-related stuff will still be nice for the 'tank' and 'healer' side of things. I'd prob just pair it w/ Guardian, just to round out the 'tank' and 'dps' sides- creating a bit of balance overall.

Here's how I'd take the spec, ditching one passive and CC for a build that can focus on any of the 3 major roles (or a hybrid of such) and still do fine:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Presence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Radiant
Level 6: Showmanship
Level 9: Shrug It Off
Level 12: Ascetic
Level 15: Healthy Mind
Level 18: Academics
Level 21: Diplomatic

Powers:
Level 1: Radiance
Level 1: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Concentration
Level 8: Aura of Primal Majesty (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Killer Instinct
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Reverence)
Level 17: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Lead Tempest (Rank 2, Tread Softly, Challenging Strikes)
Level 23: Compassion
Level 26: Shadow of Doubt (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
Level 29: Mindful Reinforcement (Rank 2, Revitalizing Boost)
Level 32: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 35: Iniquity (Rank 2)
Level 38: Ascension (Rank 2)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Ninja Vanish (Rank 2)
Level 35: Swinging

Specializations:
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Sentinel: Caregiver (2/3)
Sentinel: Sentinel Aura (3/3)
Sentinel: Moment of Need (3/3)
Sentinel: Genesis (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

Not easy to throw these sort of builds together and make them functional in all formal roles, but its still a fun exercise.

AoPM is ur DPS and Heal passive (Hybrid and Support role, respectively), using Concentration for tank and dps modes, Compassion for healer mode. AoPM will help you gain the stats you need for this wide-spread of powers, and Invuln is a strong enough passive on its own to tank most content just fine w/ all the heals ya got. Shadow of Doubt w/ CripC is a move purely for the 'tank' aspect. I picked SoD cause it can AoE a bit, apply CripC, and has a dmg debuff that's nice for tanking. When not tanking, simply don't use it.

I wasn't sure if LT should have CS and Tread Softly over R3 and no CS. Just depends if ya prioritizing the tank or dps side of things more, I guess.

MF, Ascension, Conviction w/ reverence, and Iniquity should be enough heals to see you through all roles. Ya can replace Ascension w/ Palliate/absolve if ya want the aggro drop. I picked Iniquity for an ally heal as even in healer mode ur likely to have decent health, and Conviction or MF can heal up the deficit (also cause Iniquity doesn't cost any energy).

May want to get 2-3 diff sets of gear too, since ya can swap between gear as well as Role w/ the build changer- this will further help you specialize. More Con and Ego for Tanking, more Ego and Dex for DPS, more Pres/Dex and +heal% for Support.

williamkony · July 2014

Heh, I appreciate the above-and-beyond assistance, but I have no intention of changing those aspects of the build at this time. X)

I like Night Warrior's sneaky playstyle (even if I can't utilize it with allies around), and the passive only takes up one power slot. I wouldn't be able to put in anything terribly game-changing in its place, and certainly not as fun.

I use Defiance for tanking due to energy requirements. Invulnerability can't give the large energy spikes that Defiance can. Force Shield can help with energy management against groups of enemies, but is nearly useless with bosses. Not to mention it's only good against enemy groups if I arrive first and get a nice chunk of the enemies on me before my allies do, as opposed to Defiance keeping me fueled off of the efforts of just one enemy most of the time.

Ego Sleep's cooldown stands at around 7-8 seconds with my Intelligence and/or Cooldown gear. That synchronizes nicely with the durations on the plethora of effects it tosses out.

Shadow of Doubt has a lengthy cooldown given the fact that it's supposed to be the sole source of Crippling Challenge. Devour Essence hits far more often, with decent damage and healing that racks up tons of threat.

When I'm tanking against groups of enemies via Lead Tempest, the Sentinel Mastery ability keeps me at full health extremely easily, negating the need for Tread Softly's defensive bonuses. Thus, an extra Rank in the power goes much further.

Unless it's been fixed, Revitalizing Boost on Mindful Reinforcement is not actually working.

I suppose one thing that might help me decide on a tree is, what kind of damage-per-second is expected out of dedicated damage builds? If I'm too far behind whatever the "accepted" DPS count is, then a damage-oriented tree is probably my best choice to even the field.

flowcyto · July 2014

williamkony wrote: »

Heh, I appreciate the above-and-beyond assistance, but I have no intention of changing those aspects of the build at this time. X)

I like Night Warrior's sneaky playstyle (even if I can't utilize it with allies around), and the passive only takes up one power slot. I wouldn't be able to put in anything terribly game-changing in its place, and certainly not as fun.

Seems like if anything builds like this could benefit from more free power slots. But its ur build, ur goals, I guess.

My version is still a nice build for anyone looking for one that can switch between any role and do it pretty well. It was fun to make too, so..

I use Defiance for tanking due to energy requirements. Invulnerability can't give the large energy spikes that Defiance can. Force Shield can help with energy management against groups of enemies, but is nearly useless with bosses. Not to mention it's only good against enemy groups if I arrive first and get a nice chunk of the enemies on me before my allies do, as opposed to Defiance keeping me fueled off of the efforts of just one enemy most of the time.

Better to have a working EU than rely on Defiance energy, imo, esp cause the extra energy is null and void if you use the other passives.

But ya could replace Invlun w/ Defiance if ya want- point of my build was that you shouldn't need Defiance's energy cause you have other passives ya could use, so any tank passive could work fine.

Ego Sleep's cooldown stands at around 7-8 seconds with my Intelligence and/or Cooldown gear. That synchronizes nicely with the durations on the plethora of effects it tosses out.

Well ur goals are diff than my build's, but on boss-type enemies you'd still have about less than half uptime on Trapped w/ just ego sleep at 7-8 sec. Sentinel Mastery's duration is also reduced by mob rank like that. Pres's Vulnerability also won't have as much up-time since it only lasts 5 sec, and Ego Sleep has a bit of a delay on its effects (usually).

Shadow of Doubt has a lengthy cooldown given the fact that it's supposed to be the sole source of Crippling Challenge. Devour Essence hits far more often, with decent damage and healing that racks up tons of threat.

Ranks lower SoD's base cd, so its cd would actually be shorter than ego sleep's atm.

Sure, DE works, but I dunno how it fits into the build conceptually- it just seemed stuck in there cause DE is does 'everything'. That's why I axed it- just didn't make sense thematically to have it, nor did it jive w/ Muni as far as EUs or w/ Concentration.

Anyways, unranked DE also won't be healing you for that much. If ur just using it as a bread n' butter move, its better to stick CripC on something else and rank up DE normally. CripC has a cd on its effects, so it doesn't need to be spammed.

When I'm tanking against groups of enemies via Lead Tempest, the Sentinel Mastery ability keeps me at full health extremely easily, negating the need for Tread Softly's defensive bonuses. Thus, an extra Rank in the power goes much further.

Yes, against easy content Sentinel's healing aspects can carry ya through, but I was talking using the tank build for something more challenging where the extra dodge can actually be quite helpful. But again, depends on ur priorities or goals w/ the build, cause getting it to R3 can also be good- that's not for me to dictate.

Unless it's been fixed, Revitalizing Boost on Mindful Reinforcement is not actually working.

It procs when its depleted, last I checked. Unless ya mean the amount returned is bugged, which it could be.

I suppose one thing that might help me decide on a tree is, what kind of damage-per-second is expected out of dedicated damage builds? If I'm too far behind whatever the "accepted" DPS count is, then a damage-oriented tree is probably my best choice to even the field.

Depends much on powers chosen and gear level. For Muni and DE, it'd be on the upper end. 4k-5k perhaps w/ decent gear and the proper dps role- higher if ya stack enough extra powers/cds on top or upgrade the gear/mods.

tdits · July 2014

flowcyto wrote: »

Anyways, unranked DE also won't be healing you for that much. If ur just using it as a bread n' butter move, its better to stick CripC on something else and rank up DE normally. CripC has a cd on its effects, so it doesn't need to be spammed.

Also, CC doesn't scale with Tank Role SS bonuses or Tank roles 10% multiplicative bonus. It's always 400 threat. Aside from the taunt you're probably better off getting more damage out of your attack. And you probably don't even need the taunt. Anyone taunting something that actually needs tanking should be able to handle the four seconds of attention.

It's really a much better advantage in PvP than it is in PvE. Even when you fight Baron it's a luxury and not a necessity.

flowcyto · July 2014

tdits wrote: »

Also, CC doesn't scale with Tank Role SS bonuses or Tank roles 10% multiplicative bonus. It's always 400 threat. Aside from the taunt you're probably better off getting more damage out of your attack.

Hm, has that been tested to be true, or is it going by description values?

Not that I don't believe the lack of scaling- if anything its just more reason to CC/CS to scale up better to help 'fix' the threat:damage imbalance in this game. Really inane for the added values to still be static when On Alert skyrocketed player damage by comparison.

"Find the Mark" and "Trapped".

Comments