Input needed on a Fire/Munitions build

Comments

• flowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Well, as brought up in my thread that mixed chains w/ a CC build, there is one venue to make the chains pretty competitive dps, and that's stacking bleeds using the Kyoketsu Shoge advs on both Vile and Iron Lariat- taping both powers on cd (since taping still applies the bleed). The dmg of the chains is still low, and ya still need a main filler spell between the cds, but it gives ya a diff route to stacking bleeds rather quickly to rupture w/ Reaper's Embrace. It also works well w/ MSA since they are both short & cheap cd powers.
  
  The other highlight of the chain spells is the Vortex Technique adv on both Cyclone powers, as they can corral enemies in a pretty wide area, and clumping groups up like that is the fastest way for teams to AoE dps them down (plus offer some moderate CC). Again, the powers themselves will be rather weak in dps, but the added effects are what makes them potentially valuable. Crip Coils isn't a bad CC move either, its just that holds in groups tend to be broken quickly by dps.
  
  The green-colored Fire approach works, ofc, but Infernal SN (not the chain powers, just in general) may actually be the better/easier route, depending on the rest of the build (main thing Fire would have, imo, is a more universal Energy Unlock, since SP doesn't work w/ non-SN moves).
  
  On that note, if you are going Fire for the concept, then TR scales off of Endurance the most. Ya def don't need both Ego and Int as 2ndaries here either. I would go w/ an INT/Con/End SS setup, while gearing some Dex/crit on the side (or INT/Dex/End, and a side of Con). Int has Preparation to allow End to increase ur equilibrium, and you'd def want some Con gearing for the extra health and for Nimble Mind.
  
  Also, you may not get Clinging Flames up reliably w/o fully charging Pyre (which is good, but expensive) or taking Flashfire.
  
  Lastly, Sniper Rifle can be good for a long range opener and stun, but unless ya exploiting an AI's lack of range ya prob won't find many other uses out of it due to the interrupt aspect from taking any type of damage.
  
  The build looks to be powerful as is, despite some things I'd change.

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Thanks again, Flowcyto.
  
  I've rearranged the SS's and I decided to go Dex/Con/End as far as the PSS/SSS set up. Better HP will aid the build in terms of survivability. As far as your chains advice, I've already researched it and I just can't bring myself to bother with the Chain Powers until they see some of DPS increase to bring them in line with the other PBAOE's.
  
  It would suit the build thematically, but Crippling Coils serves nicely enough for the time being to fill in the 'chains' spot for the build. It's a great little power and one that I, and I think, a lot of others have overlooked in usefullness.
  
  I mainly put Sniper Rifle in for the Munitions theme, but I think Two Gun Mojo on its own can fill in the munitons spot on it's own thematically, quite nicely.
  
  I had also considered Gatling Gun as its 'heavy' enough for theme and it looks great, but I really couldn't justify having two maintained attacks, especially with the AoE component of Gatling gun, in the same build. So I decided to go with Defile, its fairly quick charging, and you throw off a full charge in the middle of of your single target rotation. Which will come down to Two Gun Mojo, and taps or charges of Defile, interspersed with the odd Crippling Chains on the ST big mobs (the ones where it will be worth throwing it into the rotation)
  
  As I look over the build now, regarding the energy unlock, it may be benefical to SSS Int in place of Endurance and go with MSA. I'll have to log into the test shard and see which unlock will work more consistantly, but I think the build should be just about tweaked properly after that.

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• superalfgorn Posts: 558 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Another problem is that Concentration scales off INT or EGO. So I would keep INT as a SSS and use MSA... with some quick recharge, ofc

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Alright so after some testing on the test shard, some research and some further thought on the build, I am happy to say that Hellspawn has been redesigned into a build that I am completely happy with so far through all of my testing.
  
  As I went back to the drawing board, I also went back to research Spawn himself, the impetus for this new build. I found that as well as munitions, he has been shown to use heavy weapons as have some of the other Spawn from earlier points in history.
  
  That led me to integrating heavy weapons, along with a touch of munitions, and a touch of fire into the build which has evolved into a real power house and one that is devastating fun to play as well as really well performing and powerful.
  
  So without further ado, let me reintroduce the new and improved Hellspawn.
  
  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name: Hellspawn
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
  Level 10: Strength (Secondary)
  Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Fist
  Level 6: Tireless
  Level 9: Impresario
  Level 12: Quick Recovery
  Level 15: Negotiator
  Level 18: Wordly
  Level 21: Amazing Stamina
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Throw Fire
  Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 6: Decimate
  Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 11: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 14: Form of the Tempest
  Level 17: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 20: Brimstone (Rank 2, Aftershock)
  Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 26: Pyre (Rank 2, Backdraft)
  Level 29: Lifedrain (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 32: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
  Level 35: Unbreakable
  Level 38: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Fire Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Teleportation
  
  Specializations:
  Dexterity: Combat Training (3/3)
  Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
  Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
  Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
  Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
  Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
  Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
  
  Throw fire is our energy builder. Colored a nice green it makes for a nice necroplasmay look and feel and for my money, it's always nicer to have a ranged energy builder for pure ease of play style for those moments where you need to build a little energy.
  
  Cleave - Rank 2/3 - A beautiful, deadly effective attack with a nice, wide AoE frontal cone. It's effective all game long for wiping out henchmen effectively and with style.
  
  Decimate - Our leap. I chose to take this here for ease of play in the earlier levels, but you can hold off, rearranging the power selection, taking Two Gun Mojo here and Vicious Decent at 23 for a deadly combo. Vicious Decent, ranked with it's special descent can topple enemies, allowing you to them slam down a Brimstone, laying a patch of fire to the ground, and then slam down Pyre laying down another patch of fire and knocking enemies down again before mopping them up with Cleaves and Annihilates. Its deadly, effective, and fun.
  
  Invulnerability - Rank 2/3 - Our defensive passive, it is iconic for the character and it represents ease of play all game long in both Alerts and when solo.
  
  Two Gun Mojo - Rank 2/3 - Spawn is often seen dual wielding guns when wanting to conserve the power of his suit or not use them. Take two of the bigger pistol options and it looks amazingly in theme. On top of that it is a ranged maintain with very good damage. It has several fun uses. Those moments you can't close on the big single target? Be it for a game mechanic or for some silly person in an alert running the boss in circles. Introduce him to as much lead as you can blast into him. Then, when soloing, lets remember Annihilate and it's knock function. Send the baddie flying across the room, spam Two Gun Mojo, then lunge and slam into him. Visually stunning and deadly effective.
  
  Form of the Tempest - This is taken to buff our melee damage and our one ranged attack. You'll be critting a lot with this build, so we take advantage of that fact by building rush quickly with Two Gun Mojo and our other attacks. Its simple, there is no managing or worrying to maintain it/sustain it and the damage and energy gains make it more than worthwhile for this build.
  
  Annihilate - Rank 2/3 - Our big single target boss killer in conjunction with Two Gun Mojo. I like to full charge it, and if the boss is not Main Villain or higher, it sends him flying. As soon as he's in the air, spam Two Gun Mojo for a full maintain, charge in and hit him again. On bosses that are knock Immune, it's quite easy to place in maintains of Two Gun Mojo between taps/charges of Annihilate for wonderful damage.
  
  Brimstone - Rank 2/Aftershock - Amazing ability. It looks brutal ad stunning, you leap up slam your weapon into the ground and lay down a patch of fire. Combine with Pyre and optionally (as mentioned above) Vicious Descent ranked with it's knock down for a lethal combo to clear rooms in style.
  
  Molecular Self Assembly - Admittedly this would perform better with SSS'd Int, but it works well here as well, with constant ticks from Conviction taken later in the build A case could be made here for Thermal Reverb with Pyre and Brimstone, I'll have to look into it and see which one provides the optimal energy gains, but for right now, my testing shows that MSA performs fine.
  
  Pyre - Rank 2/Backdraft - A wonderful ability that allows you to lay down another patch of fire, and with Backdraft, also allows you to knock down the mobs in the fire.
  
  Lifedrain - Rank 2/3 - An inconic and wonderful heal. It really fits nicely with the theme of Spawn's soul stealing ability of his suit and it allows us to remain actively on offense even when pausing to heal.
  
  Ego Surge - Nimble Mind - Our Active offense. It buffs up our crits, which are already substantial and really beefs things up when you need to pack an extra punch.
  
  Unbreakable - Unranked but still effective as our Active Defense when we need it. When things become a bit much, pop this off along with Conviction, topple the enemies around you down leaving them burning in fire while you consume health with lifedrain (which also benefits nicely from our heavy crits) until you're topped off and get right back into the action.
  
  Conviction - Our second heal and our steady, fast refreshing cooldowns to keep MSA ticking away and providing a steady stream of energy returns.
  
  And there we have it, the retooled, reworked Hellspawn. A deadly, effective, fun combination of Heavy Weapons, a little Munitions and Fire. As always, comments, thoughts, advice on bettering the build are all welcomed.

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• superalfgorn Posts: 558 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  The main thing I would definitely change is that you "must" have 2 points in Agressive Stance from the Vindicator tree as they loop with The Best Defense.
  
  Also, given that you already have Cleave, I think you should switch to Enrage as a toggle. You have plenty of knocks to quickly build stacks... plus the infernal rage sounds more suited to an hellspawn... In this case go STR as a PSS. And by the way, sTR has generally a better Spec tree.
  
  Also I would take away Pyre as it is quite reduntant with Brimstone... but you can keep it if you like to double up.
  
  
  
  
  PowerHouse (Link to this build)
  
  Name: Hellspawn
  
  Archetype: Freeform
  
  Super Stats:
  Level 6: Strength (Primary)
  Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
  Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)
  
  Talents:
  Level 1: The Fist
  Level 6: Healthy Mind
  Level 9: Coordinated
  Level 12: Body and Mind
  Level 15: Covert Ops Training
  Level 18: Field Ops Training
  Level 21: Survival Training
  
  Powers:
  Level 1: Throw Fire
  Level 1: Cleave (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 6: Decimate
  Level 8: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 11: Two-Gun Mojo (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 14: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
  Level 17: Annihilate (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 20: Brimstone (Rank 2, Aftershock)
  Level 23: Molecular Self-Assembly
  Level 26: Lifedrain (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
  Level 32: Unbreakable
  Level 35: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 38: Aggressor (Rank 2)
  
  Travel Powers:
  Level 6: Fire Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
  Level 35: Teleportation
  
  Specializations:
  Strength: Swole (2/3)
  Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
  Strength: Brutality (2/2)
  Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
  Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
  Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
  Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (2/3)
  Vindicator: Focused Strikes (1/3)
  Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
  Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
  Warden: Slaughter (2/3)
  Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
  Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
  Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

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• ajanus Posts: 501 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  It occurred to me this concept allows the use of both 2GM AND Epidemic...Drifter would be proud.

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  It actually does, that's right, Ajanus. This build has been surprising me more and more ever since I started it.
  
  I went to the test shard and decided to test it with Strength PSS'd and replaced Pyre in the build Earthsplitter, and went with Enrage and Agressor and I have to say it really works out really well.
  
  The only thing I'd consider changing is the lunge being respecced at 23 or so into Vicious Decent for added PBAoE of knocking the mobs down (to full the energy ticks from Knocks) as well as being a fun combo combined with slamming down Brimstone and laying down the patch of fire and using cleave to mop up the henches and the Annihilate knock, Two Gun Jojo, Vicious Decent lunge to knock down and Annihilate the bigger ST's (that are knockable) starting the chain again when soloing, of course.
  
  It leads you to this feeling of being this big pin ball, that's really a wrecking ball slamming around all over the battlefield and the added bonus of having the ranged ENergy builder (which just looks so great colored a nice green) along with Two Gun Mojo, for the derp moments in Alert where someone has agroed' a big target and is running it in circles or away, or when you just can't close to melee really ties the build together nicely, both in theme and in concept.
  
  So a big thanks to Alfgorn for suggesting that way to run the build. Though the FoTT set up still manages to work nicely with less Ramp up time and less need for managing/maintaining than Enrage.
  
  Both ways have proved super effective though.

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  One final question here, for those in the know, with Brimestone laying down the patch of fire, is that alone enough to take Thermal Reverb as my energy unlock, used most every fight or am I better off sticking with MSA proccing from Conviction here?

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• ajanus Posts: 501 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  I am fairly certain that it does work with Thermal Reverb, but can't test it at the moment so not 100% sure on that.

  ---

  
  Remember: Half the people you know are below average...
  
  Do not correct a fool, for he will hate you for it. Correct a wise man, for he will appreciate you for it.
  
  Don't be like the Qularr. They would not last one round in the Interstellar Galactic Arena...
  
  Handle @brayv

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  No, I know it does work with Thermal Reverb, I've researched that quite well. What I am curious about is if I will see better more consistant energy gains with Thermal Reverb or MSA, with the quick cool down on Decimate/Conviction.
  
  I haven't had the time to test the two yet on the test shard and was just curious if anyone else had experience with both.

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• helbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Decimate and Conviction are perfect for melee to keep MSA going pretty consistently. Applying Clinging Flames with anything other than Flashfire is pretty unreliable.

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  That was what I was wondering. Thank you very much, Helbjorn for your advice. Thats the way I was already thinking, but I just wanted to be sure I was on the right path there.

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  The other question I had, before I left earlier, there were ways to maintain Enrage stacks, I believe Earthsplitter does that, but with as fast as Cleave+Arc of Ruin (which I've worked into the build) are you still able to Disorent mobs and build stacks fast enough not to have to worry about having a a way to maintain stacks, outside of Enrage (the ability itself) ?

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• helbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Aggressor the AO is a good way to maintain/build stacks. If I take it I rank it to three always. Unbreakable has an advantage, "Better You Than Me" that also refreshes or adds Enraged stacks as long as you're getting hit. You don't have to rank the power itself for it to still be quite effective as an AD, especially since its rework.
  
  Many of the Might/HW powers have means of adding or refreshing Enraged during regular use. Check their power descriptions in the PH to determine which fit your build best.
  
  Also, any other power that knocks or attempts to knock will also add or refresh Enraged (Force powers, Expulsion, Energy Wave, Chest Beam, some Telekinetic powers, etc).

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Just to clarify something from earlier: the flashfire-like patch from full-charging Pyre and Brimstone (w/ aftershock) also has the same effect as Flashfire and will proc TR, even if no enemies are hit w/ it (Pyre can also stack Concentration out of combat, as can Brimstone w/ FotTiger).
  
  As far as the prev-posted Enrage build, the only moves that won't help stack/maintain Enrage are TGM and Lifedrain. If you are using the other moves/cds at least periodically then it shouldn't be too much an issue, as Enrage's duration is a bit longer than most other toggles (duration increases w/ Con).

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• helbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  flowcyto wrote: »

  Just to clarify something from earlier: the flashfire-like patch from full-charging Pyre and Brimstone (w/ aftershock) also has the same effect as Flashfire and will proc TR, even if no enemies are hit w/ it.

  
  To further clarify, Flashfire automatically applies Clinging Flames to all affected targets at onset. The remaining fire patch then has a 10% chance/tic to apply Clinging Flames similar to the other fire patch powers mentioned (Pyre's patch is 15%/tic).
  
  So, as stated, Flashfire is the most reliable applier of Clinging Flames in the power set.

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• flowcyto Posts: 12,859 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  That is correct about flashfire, but ya don't need CF applied to anything to get TR proced when using Pyre or Brimstone's version, since they don't require a target to use- you just have to remain close to the patches for the TR buff to work. My point isn't in regards to CF, since you can get TR to proc w/o it.
  
  W/ regards to TR vs. MSA: it really just comes down to the stating for the build. TR is fueled by Endurance, MSA by Int. Int is typically more convenient/efficient for ranged builds, but certain builds already using End as a SS (energy hungry ones) could benefit from TR. For a build w/o either, MSA is easier to use, but neither is going to make as much an impact w/o stating.

  <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // A basic FF building guide (see 1st reply) // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
  - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!

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• helbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Well, using Pyre as an example - with my Fire/Might builds it costs about 80 energy up front to charge it in order to net around 100 or so. That's if you use it as you describe - without a target. With a target(s), it makes no difference whether CF procs or not thanks to the 3 sec internal cooldown (as long as you stand in the patch). If you're staying mobile in combat, you could very well take a loss using Pyre if you step out of the patch and CF doesn't proc.
  
  Brimstone being a cheaper charge is more efficient, netting about 160 energy, but the same limitations apply as for Pyre.
  
  Or I can click a 30 energy Flashfire from rest (and range) on a target to net well over 210 due to its longer duration and guaranteed CF proc. And I can remain mobile out to the range of the power and still get the return.
  
  Can you use the fire patches from Pyre and Brimstone to proc TR? Absolutely. Are they as reliable or efficient as using Flashfire? No.

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• crgmoore Posts: 105 Arc User

  June 2014 edited June 2014

  Thank you Helbjorn and Flowcyto. That was what what I was thinking that the build as stands with all of the knocks and knock attempts along with Agressor/Enrage and Unbreakable perked with just Better You than Me which I have worked into the build will be enough to keep the Enrage stacks applying/maintained over the course of combat.
  
  Its my first real foray into HW/Might set up and I wanted to make sure my thinking along with Alfgorns advice and help tweaking the build was on the right track.
  
  As always, you guys are amazing and a big reason why I love this community. I love being able to share and tweak build ideas here on the forums.
  
  The build is really, by far, along with my own Golden Sentinel Force/Elec power of the Cosmos build, my favorite so far in terms of playstyle and sheer fun. There is something so gratifying about slamming around the battlefield with the lunge and all of the Knocks and the benefit of range from Tow Gun Mojo and Lifedrain when needed that have really made this enjoyable for me.
  
  So again, my thanks to you guys and everyone else that has taken interest in the build. I'll repost my slightly tweaked build in a bit here for anyone else that has been interested in leveling it up and trying it out for themselves.

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