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How do I best replicate a CoH feel?
kitsuneichiban
Posts: 23 Arc User
Everything I've played in CO so far has felt lacking to me. Not the characters, and not the atmosphere, and not the graphics, so it took me a while to be able to put my finger on what was bothering me, but I finally worked it out.
Villains didn't seem to care that I was hitting them. Fireballs, energy beams, swords, whatever, my attacks were causing at best a light flinch when I was hitting some random street punk. Compared to CoH where a hero right out of the gate could kick a thug half a block away, I was feeling very un-super.
So I turn to you, the wise community, and ask advice on powers to pick for a character that actually feel like they have significant weight to them. I'm thinking more along the lines of knockdown and knockup than knockback, because I always hated having to chase around some minion while the blaster was busy pinballing him all around a room, but a little knockback can be fun to have when messing around solo.
Villains didn't seem to care that I was hitting them. Fireballs, energy beams, swords, whatever, my attacks were causing at best a light flinch when I was hitting some random street punk. Compared to CoH where a hero right out of the gate could kick a thug half a block away, I was feeling very un-super.
So I turn to you, the wise community, and ask advice on powers to pick for a character that actually feel like they have significant weight to them. I'm thinking more along the lines of knockdown and knockup than knockback, because I always hated having to chase around some minion while the blaster was busy pinballing him all around a room, but a little knockback can be fun to have when messing around solo.
Post edited by kitsuneichiban on
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And I'm sorry to say you won't get the CoH feel over here, unless you make yourself wait a couple of seconds before you hit your next attack. Snorf, snorf.
Y'know, people keep saying this, but unless you had somehow managed to saddle yourself with only one attack power it wasn't particularly true.
With that said, yeah, it sounds like a lunge could help the OP out with any knockback concerns.
Often WAY more than an ex-CoXer will intend, actually.
Heh, well, not because of that, but because it's an entirely different game.
kitsune, I advise you not to even try and make this game a CoX surrogate. Things work too differently over here, and you'll likely never even get close to what you're after. Just learn Champions and try to work with the stuff that Champs does better than CoX did, and try not to wistfully sigh about the places where CoX was better. This seven year CoX vet knows how you feel, but...it's gone, ya gotta move on.
Oh, and also run through the settings and check. I seem to recall that there's a control about "simple" or "more complicated" animations. It's possible that maybe you're just not seeing the full anis. But I'm in no way sure. It may be something that controls your animations. I've never really fiddled with it.
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Words more sage and wise have not been spoken.
And lol to kj.
Kind of funny...because I actually had to slot KB in my CoH super strength attacks for them to knockback and appear to have any "significant weight to them".
Anyways, previous posters have pointed you in the right direction, so there is really nothing more I can add.
VARIANT
"Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."
-Abraham Lincoln-
Actually it was quite true unless you were power modded up with a set pieces, using haste from super speed and had some decent recovery going, especially with slower power sets. Most attacks had at least a 1 second cast time.
Before I got set pieces my SS build had a delay going on from my first power to my last even after a cycle so it was 3 punches and a wait period, even with haste going. After the set bonuses yea, the delay was minuscule.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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In CO, on the other tentacle, my blasting powers work constantly right there in the tutorial, no problem. In fact, that's how I build up energy for my big blasting attacks!
So there you go. To reproduce the CoH "feel", just toggle your energy-builder on for a second, then back off again and hit things.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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My favorites are:
Dragon Uppercut from MA. Love the animation for it. Uppercut from Might is similar and works well with Haymaker, but I don't like the animations for either.
Rising Knee (MA) is a great knockdown.
Inexorable Tides (MA) is a fun knockup. You can actually bounce multiple enemies using this.
Onslaught (earth) lets you take clumps of rock and bash people in the face with it. Occasionally knocks bad guys down.
Iron Cyclone (might) is my favorite trash mob killer for a melee tank. Take the Vortex advantage to suck everything to you while the rest of your team AoEs things to death.
Fault Line (earth). I had this on a melee tank. It's not amazing but it was useful for knocking up adds that wandered over to someone else.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
Thing is in CO unlike the Champions PnP the magic gene ( its a thing ) is rampant in almost EVERYBODY it seems. So when you wallop a thug they like that all you got...then they fall over :P
Dont try to have a CoH feel embrace the CO dumbassness \o/
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
RIP Caine
Then you were frankly doing something wrong, because I never experienced this. By the time I cycled through my entire attack chain on each of my characters, there was always a power freshly recharged for me to use again, and another after that and so on.
Yet by your own admission a while back you only played up to about level 4 which isn't long enough to form a valid opinion about the game. It would be like playing just the tutorial and the first two Purple Gang missions here and judging CO just by that.
By level 6, depending on archetype and power choices most CoH characters developed a semi-decent attack chain. By level 8 or level 10, there should not have been a "wait period" in your character's attack chain at all.
Anyway...I agree with most of the comments on here, some of the big hits from might and martial arts are the way to go if you want to add some extra oomph to your attacks.
Which is the only time it should have happened. As I stated, by the time you were in the level 8 - 10 range, you should have had a total of 6 or 7 powers to use not including Brawl.
Then I am sorry to tell you, your nostalgia goggles were extra thick, because yes, you did have a delay through each cycle of your powers. You did your cycle which was 4 to 5 powers long then you waited from the last till the CD on the first came up. Even with my SS/WP/Soul brute build, which was very twinked, with haste, there was still a delay between my last attack and the first one CD coming up, I had to throw in brawl just to have something to do between there, not to mention brawl with brutes was actually deadly as we experimented a few times in Siren's Call with brawl only fights. It was extra painful in the pre level 20 game because the downtime was horrendous.
It wasn't until AFTER the addition of the set enhancements with things like global CD reduction and such and their ability to have added recharge on powers that normally would never get it, that you actually started removing the downtime between the last power used and the first power attack. This was with all my characters, except, my mastermind. And that was because I played a bodyguard mastermind and all I sat back and did was use traps while my thugs did all the work.
So, pre issue 9, you had downtime, post issue 9, if you twinked and built up the character with haste and set piece mod enhancements, you dramatically reduced or removed downtime between last and first attack.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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I will say, however, that what I saw of the plant powers I really loved.
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No, still wrong. I never had the issue you're describing and it's not "nostalgia glasses" either. Once I was out of the early levels, I never had to wait on my attack chains. I don't know what you were doing, but you were clearly doing something wrong. And heck, I never made any use of the set enhancements either, so that certainly wasn't it.
Maybe you just sucked?
That is all.
RIP Caine
conversely i'm thinking you have your coh hater glasses on because i played a ss/elec brute and i do not recall any significant downtime once i learned how to space my attacks right. and i really didn't recall seeing that with my ma/sr scrapper who was my namesake, at least not a noticeable one. and the pace of the two games ddi geve the relative animations a differing feel of power for me. for me one of the many problems with co is the game-play feels spastic and melee animations look clipped and lacking weight, rising knee was mentioned and i think it highlights the unfortunate nature of the comparison, as the street justice knee attack had such a feel of weight and follow through, whereas rising knee lacks any real feel of force. this especially shows on the martial arts ones, thunderous kicks looks absurd and both energy builders have no feeling of weight at all. for me the pace felt more tactical whereas co feels like its trying to be a fps.
so do i, i still hope that the dryad costume was a hint..though a lot of time has elapsed since its release.
Sorry, but as a gameplay decision, I can't support that.
- David Brin, "Those Eyes"
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Um, because it's not enough to make a valid critique of the game? As another example, it's like watching only five minutes of a movie and claiming you can't be bothered with the rest because "it's boring."
you could get to level 8 or so in less than 20 minutes, would you respect the opinion of someone who downloaded this game played the tutorial, and assumed the whole game was just your energy builder and your secondary attack? its fine, people have different opinions and valuations, but your comment sounds bizarre, if you were an elec/elec blaster, you had 3 attacks, lightning bolt took some time..the trade off was it usually could one shot a white con minion, but you also had a second shot that recharged very fast, and if you picked elec as your secondary, you had a modestly damaging immob too and your brawl, and your origin power .
So yeah subjectively, you were bored, no other argument needed there, but for anyone who knows what you are talking about, your statement sounds weird because those werent the mechanics we played elec was simply not that slow and to someone who knew the games, it comes across as a lie, we know how many attacks you had. and how they cycled, and it seems like astroturfing to make co look better in comparison than it is.
^Pretty much.
The game may be solid and great, but it doesn't matter for me if I don't feel like playing it for long enough to see it.
Actually I don't have CoH hater glasses on, I just actually remember playing the game and what frustrated me. I know you rian and others like to imagine CoH was flawless, but it was far from it,a nd the gameplay you people describe was not legendary like you prescribe it as.
Furthermore, you sit there and already shoot your foot in your counter argument with "space your attacks right". What in the world does that mean, you have to sit there and wait between attacks while waiting? Seriously, you aren't helping your counter argument.
As far as weight to attacks, I couldn't disagree more. CoH attacks never felt weighty, being rooted throughout the cast animation which could be a second or longer at times, didn't make it feel weighty, it made it feel tedious at times. This is why people got so annoyed when BaB's tried to change how some power sets run and gun style game play worked because they had the least root time between attacks. I remember when they tried to increase that with fire and ice in particular, since a lot of blapper, corrupter and dominator builds relied on ice because of it's short root times, and they tried to lengthen those times.
COs attacks allow for you to move with few exceptions that actually root you in place, which is actually better and allows for flowing. The whole weight argument doesn't make sense since screen shake makes that weighted feel for me.
Hell rian, you only appear when people criticize CoH instead of posting it as a golden child that delivered no wrong.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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i have mentioned in the past that i had issues with the game, particularly with the introduction of hero packs, but i get drawn in when i see people either passing conjuncture as fact, or people trying to pretend there were these large gaps in the attack chains when realistically, there weren't, you had to actually pay attention to your chain and unlike co you didn't just spam one power over and over, but that is far from feeling slow, and eyah, i stand by the weight comment, im not talking about some silly screen trick, im talking about crane kick looking like the character has properly shifted their weight and hit their opponent, compared to thunderous kicks clipped animations, or the absurdly choppy kick in the original martial arts energy builder, or the aforementioned rising knee.. and you have cooldowns here as well, try throwing dragon kick twice in a row, in fact every charge melee attack i have used roots you.
and finally, no, spacing your attacks means knowing which attacks had faster recharges and hitting them in the right order to not have a wait, once you threw a longer recharge, you knew which attack flowed into the next, if you remember billz and werner used to post a lot on how to make maximized attack chains. that is what i meant by spacing it out.
Closing.