Fire Build, Advice needed

mauk2 · May 2014

Hello, all!

I've been working up a very old Pistol build, and sadly, the damage, while good, isn;t what I'd hoped.

I have read that fire does a lot more damage, so I've worked up a build. The idea is, I will have two builds, one for solo with defiance, and one for teams with fiery form.

Please look this over and see what you all think.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Pyrotic

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Squall
Level 6: Wordly
Level 9: Daredevil
Level 12: Amazing Stamina
Level 15: Quick Recovery
Level 18: Boundless Reserves
Level 21: Ascetic

Powers:
Level 1: Throw Fire
Level 1: Fire Strike (Wild Fire, Kindling)
Level 6: Fireball (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Defiance
Level 11: Compassion (Rank 2)
Level 14: Killer Instinct
Level 17: Pyre (Rank 2, Backdraft)
Level 20: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Concentration
Level 26: Conflagration (Rank 2, Burning Rain)
Level 29: Heat Wave (Rank 2, Engulfing Flames)
Level 32: Flashfire (Sweltering Heat)
Level 35: Fiery Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 38: Immolation (Rank 2)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Ego: Mental Endurance (3/3)
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Follow Through (2/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (3/3)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto · May 2014

mauk2 wrote: »

I've been working up a very old Pistol build, and sadly, the damage, while good, isn;t what I'd hoped.

I have read that fire does a lot more damage...

Er, no. At least not w/ the post-buff TGM, pistols are one of the best dps builds out there atm. TGM used to be quite weak, though.

Fire ain't bad dps atm; just more work and much more energy-intensive, by comparison. It does have great AoE dps w/ UA + Conflag- prob its strongest aspect is its best boss dps move also happens to be an (expensive) AoE.

That said, Firestrike is a waste of time, imo. Only reason to have it at all is for a cheap 100ft spell, but even that's not necessary. Its base dps is poor, and its kindling adv is additive dmg.. so it doesn't usually amount to much. Time building up firestrike is time better spent using higher dps moves (again, unless ya can't be w/in 50ft).

Fireball's Unstable Accelerant adv, however, is a cornerstone of optimal Fire dps, and something you don't want to skip. It buffs burning effects, notably makes Conflag hit a good deal harder.

Killer Instinct as an energy unlock won't work for Fire since KI only gives energy w/ Munitions powers. For Fire, you either want Thermal Reverb w/ END gearing or Molec Self-Assembly + INT gearing.

Though I can understand having 2 diff passives to swap between 'tank' and 'dps' modes, picking 2 diff toggles doesn't make sense here and is costing ya a power slot. Concentration is what you'd want for both 'modes'. Also, if you pick Ebon Void as ur block, you'll want the VD adv too.

You also are lacking in defense moves and/or heals. Its not an AT- ya don't have to be squishy even w/ Fiery Form on if ya can help it (and due to the DR on passive dmg for FF's, usually not worth making a full 'glass cannon' build anyways).

Here's how I'd rework ur current build, trying not to change too many of the powers:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Endurance (Secondary)
Level 15: Constitution (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Squall
Level 6: Healthy Mind
Level 9: Boundless Reserves
Level 12: Investigator
Level 15: Acrobat
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Accurate

Powers:
Level 1: Throw Fire (Fuel My Fire)
Level 1: Fireball (Rank 2, Unstable Accelerant)
Level 6: Fiery Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Concentration
Level 11: Pyre (Rank 2, Backdraft)
Level 14: Defiance
Level 17: Conflagration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Thermal Reverberation
Level 23: Flashfire (Sweltering Heat)
Level 26: Ebon Void (Rank 2, Voracious Darkness)
Level 29: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Resurgence (Rank 2)
Level 35: Fire Snake (Rank 2, Trail Blazer)
Level 38: Immolation (Rank 2)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Teleportation

Specializations:
Intelligence: Preparation (2/2)
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Detect Vulnerability (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Avenger: Ruthless (2/2)
Avenger: Round 'em Up (3/3)
Avenger: Relentless Assault (3/3)
Avenger: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

For this build, you'd gear mainly for Int, a decent amount of End and Con, and maybe a bit of Dex and Rec. Grab crit gear too, when ya can.

(edit: swapped in Firesnake, as Ajanus pointed out below, its a great cd for Fire dps)

ajanus · May 2014

Fire build essentials:

Fireball-Unstable Accelerant
Conflag-R3
Flashfires
Fire Snake-Trailblazer
Thermal Reverb
Concentration

Endurance as a secondary superstat

Doesn't matter for passive: Fire Form, Invulnerability, AoPM, Defiance, Night Warrior...all will work. Only thing is, since you had Defiance listed, you will probably want Con as a superstat too.

That only leaves Ego or Int as primary superstat. Both are good, you just have to decide which spec tree you like better. I prefer Ego...some prefer Int. I'm sure once testing is all said and done one will be better than the other, but the difference is probably so minimal that it's not worth mentioning.

If you stay with Defiance/Con, you should build as a tank. Fire Strike with Crippling Challenge is a nice start. Adding Challenging Strikes along with Unstable Accelerant to Fireball will complete it.

With both Con and End, Dark Transfusion makes a great way to manage Energy. However, it does put a damage dot on you for a time, so knowing when it is safe to use it will be a key factor. Which brings me to...

Active Offenses and Defenses. Not entirely necessary, but they can be most helpful when backed into a corner...or you have a damage dot from Dark Transfusion.

Flavor. Always enjoy some flavor powers. Rimefire Burst, Strafing Run, Arcane Sigils, Pyro Blades all make fun additions to your fire powers...just use personal preference when adding them.

theravenforce · May 2014

I've currently got a Fire build - Solaris, who is END PSS and does pretty well for herself in terms of DPS and burst damage, considering her END PSS situation.

Her original build is was EGO/CON/REC but I changed it for energy reasons and the fact that I wasn't actually getting as much as I wanted out of it.

Here is her updated and current build, it occasionally grabs aggro from Frosty or Kenina, if I'm going particularly heavy on the DPS. Critical strikes are abundant without using the active offensive and even outside of using healing devices, she survives pretty well and I was impressed to see her be able to tank alert bosses and generally survive pretty well. Anyway here's her build:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Solaris - Current Build

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Endurance (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Energetic
Level 15: Investigator
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Accurate

Powers:
Level 1: Throw Fire (Fuel My Fire)
Level 1: Fire Strike (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Fireball (Rank 2, Unstable Accelerant)
Level 8: Fiery Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conflagration (Rank 2, Burning Rain)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Concentration
Level 20: Thermal Reverberation
Level 23: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 26: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 29: Fire Snake (Trail Blazer)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Flashfire (Sweltering Heat)
Level 38: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Fire Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Superspeed (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Endurance: Readiness (3/3)
Endurance: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Endurance: Outburst (1/3)
Endurance: Power Overwhelming (1/3)
Endurance: Hardened (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Endurance Mastery (1/1)

Just tested this build and was critting relatively well with Fireball for 8-9k:

[Combat (Self)] Your Fireball deals 8801 (9086) Fire Damage to Regenerating Test Dummy B.

I'm working to improve her build at the moment, going to make a few tweaks and see what the difference is between both. I'll post if the change yields significant differences in terms of damage.

Personally I don't like END as a secondary super stat, in my experience it can rock as a primary super stat, it's pretty under estimated. But that's just me.

Note: Ego Surge is my AO of choice on this build, despite not statting CON it grants me an extra 9.1% chance to crit, pushing up my chance to 41.3% which is just fine for me. I didn't chose Immolation as Solaris doesn't suffer from energy issues so the cost discount would be negligible in addition to the INT she already has. But as with all my builds, this is a concept build and both Immolation and Ego Surge fit the bill. I simply preferred extra crit chance over extra energy cost reduction.

theravenforce · May 2014

Solaris Test Build wasn't much different from her current build and in fact...underperformed in comparison. The highest Fireball I got on it was 8.2k with every debuff on it...which is odd. (This was on Regen Dummies)

However, I found that Fireball did hit at least 2k harder with this build on level 40 test dummies (non regen)

[Combat (Self)] Your Fireball deals 10493 (9446) Fire Damage to Test Dummy.

Sustained DPS for it was higher than Solaris current build solely because I based it off Conflag numbers which were around 2.4k on crit (75% crit severity).

Needless to say, I prefer this test build. Here is the test build:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Solaris - Test

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Endurance (Primary)
Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Glacier
Level 6: Agile
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Energetic
Level 15: Investigator
Level 18: Coordinated
Level 21: Accurate

Powers:
Level 1: Throw Fire
Level 1: Fire Strike (Rank 2, Kindling)
Level 6: Fireball (Rank 2, Unstable Accelerant)
Level 8: Fiery Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 11: Conflagration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Concentration
Level 20: Thermal Reverberation
Level 23: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
Level 26: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
Level 29: Fire Snake (Rank 2, Trail Blazer)
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35: Flashfire (Sweltering Heat)
Level 38: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Fire Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Superspeed (Rank 2)

Specializations:
Endurance: Readiness (3/3)
Endurance: Gear Utilization (3/3)
Endurance: Outburst (1/3)
Endurance: Power Overwhelming (1/3)
Endurance: Hardened (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Locus (2/2)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Endurance Mastery (1/1)

That being said...both work well, and I'd perhaps use the former build for levelling perhaps? (Since Conflag with Burning rain for moving mobs etc)

salutage14xx · May 2014

Full ego fire snake+ strafing run = gg

* fiery form optional*

flowcyto · May 2014

theravenforce wrote: »

That being said...both work well, and I'd perhaps use the former build for levelling perhaps? (Since Conflag with Burning rain for moving mobs etc)

Probably. Most bosses won't be that mobile (unless its like Kev Poe or some looney is kiting them), so I'd prob use r3 on Conflag for max lvl, but perhaps Burning Rain when grinding normal mobs.. since they like to scatter around and do weird pathing things in melee.

aiqa · May 2014

flowcyto wrote: »

Probably. Most bosses won't be that mobile (unless its like Kev Poe or some looney is kiting them), so I'd prob use r3 on Conflag for max lvl, but perhaps Burning Rain when grinding normal mobs.. since they like to scatter around and do weird pathing things in melee.

Agreed on getting r3, most mobs die before responding and running out of the range of conflag anyway, and a 20% damage difference is pretty huge. With an OA, fireball+adv, r3 firesnake and mediocre gear I'm getting between 2.4 and 3.4 crits on conflag, and with those power plus flashfire about 4.5k sustained dps. When optimally geared I'd say a pure fire themed dps build should be able get somewhere between 5.5 and 6k dps.

Two powers I'd never forgo on a fire dps build, and are missing on all builds in the thread, rebirth and palliate+absolve. You can be sure you will pull more agro than you can handle during fights like gravitar or in therakiel's temple. And even on things you can handle, the number of powers you need to juggle besides spamming conflag, makes your dps drop much more than it would on other sets when being knocked or held or forced to block.

This is my fire build.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name:

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Ego (Primary)
Level 10: Recovery (Secondary)
Level 15: Endurance (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Tempest
Level 6: Wordly
Level 9: Daredevil
Level 12: Amazing Stamina
Level 15: Jack of All Trades
Level 18: Field Ops Training
Level 21: Command Training

Powers:
Level 1: Throw Fire
Level 1: Fire Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 6: Fiery Form (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Thermal Reverberation
Level 11: Concentration
Level 14: Fireball (Rank 2, Unstable Accelerant)
Level 17: Fire Snake (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 20: Flashfire (Rank 2, Sweltering Heat)
Level 23: Conflagration (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Palliate (Absolve)
Level 32: Imbue (Rank 2)
Level 35: Masterful Dodge
Level 38: Rebirth

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Blazing Speed (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
Ego: Insight (3/3)
Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Find the Mark (2/3)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

ajanus · May 2014

I see a lot of people with different builds and advice, and that's really good. However, I need to stress this point:

The nerf to dodge/avoidance/Dex gear really did a number to builds such as this. Usually on my dps, I just took a dodge/avoidance Primary Defense gear and didn't put any stock into actual defenses because that was usually enough to keep me up in whatever I was doing. Since then, I have made a few adjustments that I think work a lot better, and just makes sense overall.

1. Right now, there is absolutely no reason to not make Con one of your superstats. A lot of dps PSS have specs tied to secondary stats, so you can buff those by just piling on the Con.

2. I have since switched my Primary Defense slots to all Defense because it boosts the Vindicator/Warden setup and helps all damage reduction, not just "if you dodge."

3. With all of the Cost Reductions through gear/specs, I haven't found a build that just flat out runs out of energy to the point of needing 2 energy stats. Plus Con + End = Dark Transfusion shenanigans. Energy issues are nonexistent.

This will make a huge impact on a lot of things that can 1-shot you or pile on a lot of damage really fast, like Gravitar or Fire/Ice. Having 10k+ health with Active Defenses and heals will make life much easier for support toons. And best of all, you really won't need threat dumps or self-rezzes because your toon will be able to handle it while tanks/supports regain control. I have always considered those more of a personal preference than a necessity.

aiqa · May 2014

ajanus wrote: »

1. Right now, there is absolutely no reason to not make Con one of your superstats. A lot of dps PSS have specs tied to secondary stats, so you can buff those by just piling on the Con.

2. I have since switched my Primary Defense slots to all Defense because it boosts the Vindicator/Warden setup and helps all damage reduction, not just "if you dodge."

3. With all of the Cost Reductions through gear/specs, I haven't found a build that just flat out runs out of energy to the point of needing 2 energy stats. Plus Con + End = Dark Transfusion shenanigans. Energy issues are nonexistent.

The fire energy unlock does not work that well, to be able to really spam conflag, you need a decent amount of END, adding REC to that lower the END requirements, so enables for more EGO which adds to damage. I am not a fan of trying to make up for that with dark transfusion, that lowers your overall survivability much more than CON adds to it.

I am curious how much dps you get out of a fire build like that though.

And agreed on dodge gear, that is mostly useless except for LR builds. Just get defense gear for dps builds.

ajanus · May 2014

Not sure about actual dps, but I can get Conflags to just over 4k a tick, only stopping for reapplication of Flashfires, Fire Snake, Fireball, and Pyro Blades as needed. (I also ususally end this phase with a pretty good Rimefire to make up for non-Conflagging.)

The first few Dark Transfusions barely move my health bar while active. If you keep hitting it every few seconds, it can add up, but just using it as needed will give plenty of time for supporters to heal back up with Sentinel Aura or Sanctuary Sigils without interrupting your rotation too much.

Of course, DT requires a bit of common sense, not to use during impending spike damage or during a high-movement phase or anything like that.

On my build, I am still debating dropping a power for Devour Essence for times DT catches me off guard. Hasn't happened yet, but just a matter of time :biggrin:

With Insight from Ego, and some cost reduction gear, Concentration, and TR all combined to make even Conflagging hard to run you out of energy.

mauk2 · May 2014

Wow, a lot of different builds here....

And they're a LOT different.

So, since pistols is about as good as DPS gets, should I just stick with that toon?

Fire sounds like a lot more fiddling for not a lot of gain.

Although the 8-9000 point hits you guys are talking about sound pretty cool....

ajanus · May 2014

It's really personal preference. Most of the time, I enjoy the flash and bang of Fire...but sometimes I just want to shoot things in the face. I have toons that do both, and I enjoy both, so really, it's whatever you like.

Munitions is the easiest build to make and play though...and is the least taxing on your superstats since Ego fuels...everything. Concentration and Killer Instinct are both Ego-based, effectively "freeing up" a superstat choice for you.

I think overall, fire is more rewarding because people you group with "see" it....making it a bit more satisfying to play. :biggrin:

flowcyto · May 2014

mauk2 wrote: »

Wow, a lot of different builds here....

And they're a LOT different.

So, since pistols is about as good as DPS gets, should I just stick with that toon?

Fire sounds like a lot more fiddling for not a lot of gain.

Although the 8-9000 point hits you guys are talking about sound pretty cool....

Variety is the spice of life, ya?

If we all stuck to only the most efficient builds, then this game would have even less lasting potential than it already does.
It would also be incredibly boring :X

Fire is a good dps powerset, though 'good' is ofc relative.

mauk2 · May 2014

ajanus wrote: »

Munitions is the easiest build to make and play though...and is the least taxing on your superstats since Ego fuels...everything. Concentration and Killer Instinct are both Ego-based, effectively "freeing up" a superstat choice

Uh oh....

I didn't take Ego as a superstat on my pistol build.

Hrrrrrm......

This is more complicated than I expected.

selphea · May 2014

mauk2 wrote: »

Uh oh....

I didn't take Ego as a superstat on my pistol build.

Hrrrrrm......

This is more complicated than I expected.

Not really.

You can do a pistol build with just about any reasonable stat combo.

Int? Use a cooldown like Mental Storm or Strafing run to proc MSA, and pair with Concentration.

Rec? Use Overdrive since 2gm and lead tempest are maintains.

End? Bring in Thermal Reverb and Flashfire.

Dex? Take Form of the Tempest.

Every powerset has its strengths and weaknesses too.

Pistols has good single target and very energy efficient but not the best once you bring in complex rotations. AoEs are pretty bad too.

Ice takes the single target crown with Rimefire and Fire Snake and Strafing Run, but is quite immobile compared to 2gm and you need a Turbo button.

Fire's is great Aoe damage but in a tiny area and needs a ton of debuffs.

Lightning is easy to use and good all around with Arc and Storm needing less setup, but not the best.

And the list goes on. Only Heavy Weapons doesn't really shine in any one area I think.

flowcyto · May 2014

HW isn't really a bad tree- it doesn't have any real standout powers (beyond maybe Brimstone), but not many weak ones either. Perhaps all it needs is Annihilate to get a knock immune boost closer to Haymaker's- at least for FFs, since the Devastator is good for a melee AT.

Some powersets are more flawed to me because they may have some really good spells, but also many weak ones (ex. Force, Gadgeteering, Sorcery, Telepathy), so making builds devoted to them (instead of cherry-picking their best powers) can become frustrating.

ajanus · May 2014

I think between Cleave, Enrage, and Brimstone, you could make a pretty decent HW build. The animations on it are just so slow and clunky that it makes me want to claw my eyes out.

selphea · May 2014

gradii wrote: »

remind me why I'd want Strafing run randomly slapped onto an ice toon?? :rolleyes:

The same reason demons with flaming auras and glowing shoulderpads need two peashooters and Strafing Run?

ajanus · May 2014

gradii wrote: »

remind me why I'd want Strafing run randomly slapped onto an ice toon?? :rolleyes:

So you can run around yelling,"Suck it, ATs!" ? Well, that's why I do it, anyways.

Fire Build, Advice needed

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