Might Growth Tank Build

gemknightranger · March 2014

Hello! Below is my current build but I feel it could be better.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Gemma V1 Tank

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Brilliant
Level 15: Physical Conditioning
Level 18: Body and Mind
Level 21: Healthy Mind

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge, Nailed to the Ground)
Level 6: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth)
Level 11: Aggressor
Level 14: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Miniaturization Drive (Reciprocating Gizmo)
Level 23: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 29: Havoc Stomp (Cry Havoc, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Resurgence (Evanescent Emergence)
Level 38: Retaliation

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics
Level 35: Jet Boots (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
Guardian: Tenacious (2/2)
Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (1/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

Right now my stats are:

Full Legion and Vindicator pieces for Gear with all Level 7 mods:

With my gear and the Offensive Expertise I am able to spam Aggressor without losing my stacks of Enrage. Which means perma 8 stack Enrage. It also allows me to spam Mini Drive every 12 seconds which is awesome.

But the problem I am having is keeping my health up. When hit with a Ramapage Boss's main hit I am sometimes below 50% health even while blocking it. Resurgence would be down still. Would have to spam Conviction every 3 seconds for 800~1000 Health per click but I feel it is not good enough.

Resurgence, Uppercut, and Retaliate are moves I feel can be replaced with something else. Was thinking maybe adding Nanobot Swarm with the Medical Injector Advantage in place of Retaliate and replace Uppercut with Demolish with the Below the Belt Advantage. Was also thinking of adding Devour Essence to keep my health up but no idea what to take out.

Another problem I am facing is aggro. It only happens on rare occasions when the DPS is insane. Would take me a bit to get it back. Typically I could just spam Haymaker all day and nothing can take the boss' attention from me.

Any assistance will be greatly appreciated.

flowcyto · March 2014

That is one pimped out toon..

Since you have Aggressor and lotsa CDR, I'd prob replace Uppercut w/ MD. Would also shift those adv points to ranking up Retaliation.

If ya want a good chunk of extra health, take Bulwark in Protector Mastery over Vindicator and use the Tank role. Also would prob take Warden over Guardian for Elusive.

Defense combo w/ CC would help you w/ threat, the rare cases you need more of it. Could replace havoc stomp w/ it if ya feel aggro is more an issue.

gemknightranger · March 2014

Thanks for the reply. Changed the build to reflect your suggestion and I replaced Resurgence with BCR and also replaced uppercut with MD. Also gave my block an upgrade. I so want to use Bulwark but I like the Aggressive Stance + The Best Defense combo for the number boosts.

I also have a question on Rebounding Resilience. Does the Hold Resist it gives worth investing in? I really hate CCs in this game and would want to know if it's actually noticeable.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Gemma V2 Tank

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: Superhuman
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Brilliant
Level 15: Physical Conditioning
Level 18: Body and Mind
Level 21: Healthy Mind

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge, Nailed to the Ground)
Level 6: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth)
Level 11: Aggressor
Level 14: Invulnerability (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Molecular Self-Assembly
Level 20: Miniaturization Drive (Reciprocating Gizmo)
Level 23: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Havoc Stomp (Cry Havoc, Challenging Strikes)
Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
Level 38: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Superjump (Rebounding Resilience)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Strength: Swole (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (1/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

flowcyto · March 2014

I've never used Superjump's adv before, so I cannot say how effective it is. If you have spare adv points ya can pick it up latter in the build and try it, so if it doesn't work out then un-training it won't be as costly.

You can use MD while held; Aggressor, as an AO, can also help you break holds faster. Generally, knock resist is more important as a tank than hold resist, since taking dmg while held (which you will as a tank) often helps you break free of holds anyways.

helbjorn · March 2014

Have you tested one Lucky Gem in your Gloves of Offense? Or are you already at DR for gear-derived CC?

flowcyto · March 2014

yeah, the return on offense gems isn't very good. At that low base crit a gambler's may be better. Ofc, for more defensive building, sentinel's +heal% is quite good (and very cheap on the AH.. noone buys those mods

).

gemknightranger · March 2014

With a Lucky Gem, my Offensive bonus drops from 23% to 20% and my defense drops from 105% to 100%. In exchange I get a 10% bonus to crit chance.

Is it better than the flat bonus? Hard to say. Reason for that is my slow single hit moves. Unlike a crit build with mulit-hitting moves they benefit more from the crit bonus unlike my slower single hits.

After switching Resurgence for BRC I no longer have any major survival issues. I also took out unleashed rage for defensive combo at rank 3. Kept CC on the leap. No longer having agro issues.

I am thinking of switching out Haymaker for Demolish w/ below the belt. This gives me two extra advantage points to invest in BCR. I would make it rank three instead of using the reki advantage.

The sentinel mod is a good idea but since both Conviction and BCR are on super low cool downs due to my gear I think it would be overkill. However this makes it a good reason to invest in crit. Since my heals are spammed for my Energy Unlock the heals critting would make it insanely good for survivability.

helbjorn · March 2014

That's interesting data. I would tend to agree with you that a 3% consistent damage bonus may be more favorable than a 10% long term gain in crit damage on slower attacks such as the ones in your build. The only reliable benefit of the increased crit would be if you tended more toward prolonged boss/cosmic battles.

flowcyto · March 2014

gemknightranger wrote: »

With a Lucky Gem, my Offensive bonus drops from 23% to 20% and my defense drops from 105% to 100%. In exchange I get a 10% bonus to crit chance.

Is it better than the flat bonus? Hard to say. Reason for that is my slow single hit moves. Unlike a crit build with mulit-hitting moves they benefit more from the crit bonus unlike my slower single hits.

Well, from a simple dps perspective, crit is a somewhat standard dps increase, no matter how fast or slow the dps method is- since there's no icd (afaik) on crits triggering. Frequency of hits does impact certain things crit-related, like Adren Rush heals, or FotT, but not really in general.

Since you have Invuln, the 5% loss in Defense would translate to a ~0.85% dmg mitigation decrease, pre-dodge and pre-dmg shield (1/2.45 vs 1/2.40), so its not really anything to worry about imo.

And the 3% offense loss isn't quite a 3% dmg loss overall, since Offense doesn't multiply off of crit severity (cause Cryptic math).

The sentinel mod is a good idea but since both Conviction and BCR are on super low cool downs due to my gear I think it would be overkill. However this makes it a good reason to invest in crit. Since my heals are spammed for my Energy Unlock the heals critting would make it insanely good for survivability.

Only issue is that Endorphin Rush and BCR, both significant sources of healing for the build, cannot crit. +heal% would help all of those, but obv doesn't double as a dps increase, as crit and crit severity can.

ajanus · March 2014

I think you hit your sweet spot for Offense around 440 or so. I usually try not to gear past that.

The problem with your current setup is with such a low Crit%, all that Severity is wasted. With a couple of rank 7 Gambler's in your Primary Offense, you can boost your Crit% to around 38%, but your Offense drops to around 500ish, and your Defense drops around 20 points. To me, this is WELL worth the trade. Crit%/Sev adds SO much depth to your toon, whereas the 800 Offense might look amazing on paper, it is much better to layer your offenses now.

gemknightranger · March 2014

ajanus wrote: »

I think you hit your sweet spot for Offense around 440 or so. I usually try not to gear past that.

The problem with your current setup is with such a low Crit%, all that Severity is wasted. With a couple of rank 7 Gambler's in your Primary Offense, you can boost your Crit% to around 38%, but your Offense drops to around 500ish, and your Defense drops around 20 points. To me, this is WELL worth the trade. Crit%/Sev adds SO much depth to your toon, whereas the 800 Offense might look amazing on paper, it is much better to layer your offenses now.

I tried out using two Crit Mods. My crit went up to 28% but my offense went down to 17% and defense down to 93-94%. Having just one Crit mod increased my performance but I am debating the second crit mod. With one Crit mod my Crit went up to 23% but I maintained a 100% defense rating. Will need more time to see if its better to have one offense and one crit or having both crit mods.

From my short test though on the Rampage tonight the increase in crit was noticeable. Was hitting 10k+ Haymakers. These were all level 7 mods btw.

I also took out an INT armoring for a STR one to see if there was any difference. My severity dropped my 15 or so percent when doing that due to the specialization from the STR tree increasing severity from secondary stats. So I kept my armorings the same and put my INT armoring back in.

Though the extra STR did allow my to carry a Titanic Weight! :biggrin:

flowcyto wrote: »

Only issue is that Endorphin Rush and BCR, both significant sources of healing for the build, cannot crit. +heal% would help all of those, but obv doesn't double as a dps increase, as crit and crit severity can.

Was not aware that those moves don't crit. That changes my perspective of helping out heals then. DPS though was noticeably higher.

Thank you all with your tips and advise on the gear stats. That was one thing I had the most problems with as I was unable to find a good optimized stat guide. All I found were posts about the calculations which were difficult to put into practice with so many other factors (i.e Power sets).

ajanus · March 2014

If you replace your Int mods, you will want to use Con mods, not Str ones. Keeping the same Secondary numbers will keep your Severity higher.

The Con will also boost your defense more from Juggernaut.

I think the 3 Vigilante secondaries with full Con mods on primaries is optimal for Juggernaut builds since it maximizes your defense anyways.

gemknightranger · April 2014

Took your advice ajanus and went with One Con and one Int in the Utility slot. Rest Con. Reason for the single int was to keep aggressor below a 40 sec cooldown to keep enrage up outside of combat. Got to keep that growth going :biggrin:.

Below is the current build. Changed the talents and specializations. Removed MSA for the Nanobot for triple Mini Drive, Changed Invulnerability with Defiance for energy issues. Energy is not an issue with Defiance but you do loose that nice initial DR from Invulnerability. MSA is not needed with Defiance supplying energy.

The build is similar to Caliga's Build where DPS will be the main form of aggro. Haven't tested in an Alert or Rampage yet but, if Aggro does become a big issue I'll remove Rank 2 from Havoc and Rank 2 from Acrobatics to add CC on leap. INT is used instead of Recovery to allow a shorter cooldown on Nanobot, Mini and Aggressor.

I use defensive combo for the nice threat and AoE damage caused by the final hit in the combo. Havoc Stomp is to apply fear and some CS on groups of mobs. Also it's the quickest way to get Enrage stacks in a group or outside of combat. Main purpose of this move, for me, is just to use Mini Drive outside of combat and for theme. It looks awesome has a giant stomping on a group of enemies.

The Rank 2 on Havoc Stomp can be placed anywhere in the build. I simply placed it in Havoc Stomp to give it a bit more damage. You can place it on Mini Drive to further debuff your enemies.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Growth Might Build

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Intelligence (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Brilliant
Level 12: Enduring
Level 15: Paramilitary Training
Level 18: Body and Mind
Level 21: Healthy Mind

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Mighty Leap (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 6: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 8: Aggressor
Level 11: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Miniaturization Drive (Reciprocating Gizmo)
Level 17: Enrage (Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth)
Level 20: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Cry Havoc, Challenging Strikes)
Level 26: Masterful Dodge
Level 29: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Nanobot Swarm (Rejuvinating Injectors)
Level 35: Defiance
Level 38: Defensive Combo (Rank 2, Rank 3)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2, Versatility)
Level 35: Jet Boots

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Tenacious (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

ajanus · April 2014

Looks good, but a couple of personal preferences that you may or may not agree with:

You probably only use Defensive Combo when it is imperative you gain agro. What I would do is drop R3 on it for Crippling Challenge. Since you need another point for that, I would also drop Versatility from Acro and just take R3. That way you have that extra travel boost even when you are not in combat.

If you find Versatility is too important for you to drop, I would take R3 off of BCR....really, I would take R2 off as well for the RR advantage only on BCR. On fights that you would normally be using both Conviction and BCR on cooldown, you probably will be using MD as well, which is when BCR/RR really pulls its weight.

gemknightranger · April 2014

Honestly I actually agree with your changes. I did more testing after posting my last build and I swear I keep changing stuff. XD

I actually been mainly using Defensive Combo on smaller groups of mobs when I don't want to accidentally knock them back with Haymaker or Havoc Stomp. I have however been testing Defensive Combo with Rank 2 and CC and I think I may prefer it that way to save some advantage points.

Since Masteful Dodge is on a 37 Second Cooldown It may be best to change Bountiful Chi Resurgance back to the Resurgent Reiki as I would get a bigger benefit from that.

For Athletics I mainly placed Versatility to give myself mobility in combat but if rank 3 is good to have in combat I'll switch it up. Been mostly using my Bike for Travelling outside of combat. :redface:

ajanus · April 2014

Ok, that actually makes sense to me the way you are doing things.

But since you said that, would you consider Uppercut over Defensive Combo...and just do R3 Uppercut. It will destroy the little guys, build Enrage, and not send them flying all over the screen...just vertically. I have found I enjoy Uppercut a lot more than most of the Enrage builders...aside from Cleave.

Hey, if you can find room for R3 and Versatility in Acro, go for it...makes for some insane mobility during combat. I don't normally think about using vehicles for normal transportation, so that was a nice insight for me, thanks :biggrin:

dashnochris · September 2014

I do hope I'm not so late to this thread's party that my post comes off as necro-bumpy.

As an on-again/off-again (mostly off-again) player with a fave alt that does the Might/Growth thing in the Tank role, this thread provided me alot of insight into synergizing spec trees and gear/mods to help me redesign her build. Though I've been with CO since pre-launch (BIG fan of the Champions pen&dice RPG since the early '80s), most of my play time occurred prior to "On Alert" (Apr 2012). At that time, getting my head 'round the new gear/mods system was a bit daunting -- plus, the i22 & i23 updates to City of Heroes in 2012 had pulled me from Millenium back to Paragon to a good degree (a good thing, too, as CoH was destined to vanish before year's end). As a result, it's only in the last several months that I've begun picking through info, writeups, and recommendations re: gear, mods, spec trees, etc. As a fan of the tabletop RPG, the announcement that Mechanon is, at long last, making his CO debut has rekindled my desire to get back into the game.

Back on Oct 3, 2009, a little poking thru in-game power descriptions (and some supplemental forum-searching) led me to launch Size Queen, the first of a handful of growth-oriented alts, and to begin mucking about with the stacking of the game's various size-increasing effects. It didn't take long (especially with folks farming Mr Zombie for the then-still-bugged Experimental Artificial Life Injection device) to meet folks enjoying similar in-game silliness: @Turmoil86, who promptly intro'd me to @BriGuy (and his various Nina alts), and some time later @Macey (known for his coincidentally-similarly-named Size Queen). The whole size-alteration thing is so marvelously silver-age comic-book-y in its ridiculosity, it adds a whole extra-heavy helping of enjoyability to the game.

All that being said, I'd very much like to update Size Queen's build, and get started on a shopping list of gear & mods I'd like to work toward for her. Here's what I've recently cobbled together via the PowerHouse build planner site:

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Name: Size Queen

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Intelligence (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Strength (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Physical Conditioning
Level 9: Negotiator
Level 12: Relentless
Level 15: Healthy Mind
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Body and Mind

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Roomsweeper (Rank 2, Challenging Strikes)
Level 6: Defiance
Level 8: Mighty Leap (Crippling Challenge)
Level 11: Enrage (Endorphin Rush, Giant Growth)
Level 14: Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Miniaturization Drive (Reciprocating Gizmo)
Level 20: Nanobot Swarm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Aggressor (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Havoc Stomp (Rank 2, Challenging Strikes)
Level 29: Retaliation (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 32: Demolish (Rank 2, Below the Belt)
Level 35: Uppercut
Level 38: Haymaker (Rank 2)

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Athletics (Rank 2)
Level 35: Superjump

Specializations:
Intelligence: Enlightened (3/3)
Intelligence: Tactician (2/2)
Intelligence: Revitalize (3/3)
Intelligence: Expertise (2/2)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (1/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Vindicator: Offensive Expertise (2/2)
Protector: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Protector: Bulwark (2/2)
Protector: Defensive Expertise (3/3)
Protector: Resolute (2/3)
Mastery: Intelligence Mastery (1/1)

Of the handful of size-altering alts I've rolled up, Size Queen doesn't need to be the strongest or the toughest, but she does need to be the growthiest. Therefore, I'm looking to build her toward recharge-reduction (for maintaining perma-Enrage via Aggressor, and for applying multiple stacks of Miniaturization Drive / Reciprocating Gizmo) via Primary Super Stat INT and +Cooldown gear/mods.

Over the years, her earlier builds have lacked a number of power-types that most folks include in their builds by default: more than one Active Defense, any Active Offense at all, any Energy Unlock at all, an optional Offensive Passive, etc. Naturally, the dedication of 3 power slots to Enrage, Mini Drive, and Nanobot Swarm contributes to this. But, having played a Martial Arts scrapper for 8 years in CoH, I'm a big fan of characters with a large number of different attack powers, so Size Queen has at times dedicated a large number of power slots to having a suite of cool-looking melee attacks.

I did manage to make a little room in this proposed build so that I could squeeze in Aggressor and Retaliation. SQ's never used an Active Offense before, and her current build just stayed with the standard Block. Previously, she'd tried out Parry with The Elusive Monk -- but I'd rather not deal with the melee attack damage penalty it applies, and it looks a bit funny to see her performing the kick counterattack animation when most of her other attacks involve her fists. :P

I'd considered the idea of freeing up another power slot for Unstoppable. In the past, I've planned my alts around Defensive Passives. While I've wondered about giving SQ the option to switch to the Melee Damage / Brawler role (on occasions when a PUG might already have someone pretty tank-y and has a need for more damage-dealers, for example)... I'm somewhat loathe to sacrifice one of the above power choices to free up the room for it. Perhaps one of you has a suggestion?

While I briefly considered the idea of an Energy Unlock like Molecular Self Assembly, she's always had a Defiance-centric build and has had fewer energy issues than some of my other alts. Plus, Gem Knight Ranger previously indicated that switching Gemma V1 Tank from Invulnerability to Defiance cleared up energy problems and allowed MSA to be dropped.

I also considered Defensive Combo for its Threat generation capability, but ultimately left it out in favor of attack powers I just feel are more visually interesting. I'm hoping that with Crippling Challenge on Mighty Leap, and Challenging Strikes on both Roomsweeper and Havoc Stomp, that she'll be able to generate (and maintain) a decent amount of Threat in Tank role.

Mandatory Advantages (Giant Growth, Recip Gizmo, etc) were applied first, with damage Ranking for attack powers being done at the end. With 9 Adv pts left, I opted to simply spend 8 of them on Rank 2 for her 4 highest-damage attacks, and drop the remaining point on a Rank 2 for the Athletics travel power.

Since she doesn't have room for multiple Active Defenses (or AOs, for that matter), I selected the Vindicator and Protector trees so she could take the Offensive & Defensive Expertise specializations (to make Aggressor and Resurgence available that much more often). However, since she is PSS INT -- and will be gearing for +Cooldown -- I wonder if Diminishing Returns might begin to de-value the AO/AD recharge reduction contributions of the two Expertise specs. Can anyone provide a little insight on this?

Any feedback y'all can offer would be very much appreciated.

--Chris

flowcyto · September 2014

Defense Combo w/ CripC would greatly help you secure threat, as well as allow you to refresh Defiant in case ur not getting hit (say another player took aggro from you and there's no incidental dmg to take). R3 Haymaker is very good dps (and thus threat) on knock-immune targets, but ya cant 'taunt' with it since it lacks CripC.

Ya also prob dun need both Havoc Stomp and Roomsweeper - I'd prob replace one of them w/ Defense Combo. If ya did get DC, ya wouldn't need CripC on the lunge anymore. May not need Uppercut either if using R3 Aggressor and Roomsweeper (in AoE) to build Enrage. Could find a way to fit Unleashed Rage in there instead for a burst cd.

MSA (or another EU) is not needed on many builds that already have a energy-granting toggle and Defiance, yea, but I would suggest it if ya were adding in something like Conviction to the mix.

Nanobot Swarm is unfortunately affected negatively by cd reduction on gear, meaning the flat -seconds you see in the tooltip will be lowered by how much cd reduction you have (prob done for balance reasons, which makes sense). It can still be helpful if ya want more cd-uptime, but the effect won't be as much as advertised (maybe 7-10 secs shaved off per use at R3).

The build looks mostly fine, but ya may want to consider Warden over Vindicator, assuming ya want to keep Bulwark and defensive Expertise in Protector.

dashnochris · September 2014

flowcyto wrote: »

Defense Combo w/ CripC would greatly help you secure threat, as well as allow you to refresh Defiant in case ur not getting hit (say another player took aggro from you and there's no incidental dmg to take). R3 Haymaker is very good dps (and thus threat) on knock-immune targets, but ya cant 'taunt' with it since it lacks CripC.

Ya also prob dun need both Havoc Stomp and Roomsweeper - I'd prob replace one of them w/ Defense Combo. If ya did get DC, ya wouldn't need CripC on the lunge anymore. May not need Uppercut either if using R3 Aggressor and Roomsweeper (in AoE) to build Enrage. Could find a way to fit Unleashed Rage in there instead for a burst cd.

Honestly, my only real argument against Defensive Combo for Size Queen is that (as previously stated) I don't find it as visually interesting as her other attack animations. That, and my Unarmed main (Dash Bleu) already has DC -- and I'm usually eager to avoid too many repeat power selections across my alts, if I can help it.

That being said, if it's going to significantly boost her Threat-iness (and look less silly as an every-10-seconds-Block-breaker than point-blank Mighty Leaps

), perhaps I should consider it. And the Adv points to apply CripC to Defensive Combo could, as you said, simply come from removing CripC from Mighty Leap.

Looking at the notion of giving up one of her two AoEs (Roomsweeper, Havoc Stomp): RS outclasses HS on damage output, to be sure, and tends to be a more reliable source of Enrage stacks. As much as I like each attack's animation, I simply can't get over the visual satisfaction that Havoc Stomp provides when SQ has 8 stacks of Enrage and 2-3 stacks of Recip Gizmo going.:biggrin: Also, positioning of Stomp's AoE sphere is easy-cheese, while Sweeper's AoE cone sometimes requires repeated repositioning to keep 5 targets within it. That, and I hate to be a source of unwanted knockback when teamed -- and a tap RS is rather likely to do that, while a tap HS (when it *does* knock) merely knocks up. If I did drop one, I think it'd be Roomsweeper.

I did give Unleashed Rage some thought earlier, when looking at Size Queen. However, it just doesn't *quite* fit within my concept of the origin/nature/functionality of her powers, as they pertain to her backstory. One of my other growtch-centric alts, however, may very likely try to squeeze it in (along with Howl, Shadow Shroud w/Terrifying Visage adv, and perhaps Havoc Stomp w/Cry Havoc adv -- since one of her gimmicks is being very intimidating).

flowcyto wrote: »

MSA (or another EU) is not needed on many builds that already have a energy-granting toggle and Defiance, yea, but I would suggest it if ya were adding in something like Conviction to the mix.

I'm hopeful that she won't need another heal (as I'd have to sacrifice something to add Conviction). However, given Conviction's incredibly fast CD (even without SQ's statting/slotting for CD reductoin), I will definitely do some comparison testing of how she does with Conviction as a replacement for Resurgence.

And, if I *did* end up swapping Convic for Resurg, she'd have no reason to take the Defensive Expertise spec.

flowcyto wrote: »

Nanobot Swarm is unfortunately affected negatively by cd reduction on gear, meaning the flat -seconds you see in the tooltip will be lowered by how much cd reduction you have (prob done for balance reasons, which makes sense). It can still be helpful if ya want more cd-uptime, but the effect won't be as much as advertised (maybe 7-10 secs shaved off per use at R3).

Yeah, having read earlier about the negative impact CD reduction will have on the performance of Nanobot Swarm, I'll definitely be examining its usefulness very closely once I have SQ fully geared. With that negative impact, it looks like achieving a quadruple-stack of Recip Gizmo will be challenging (at best). If it merely extends her time at triple-stack size, I'll have to seriously consider whether it's worth 4 Adv points and a power slot.

flowcyto wrote: »

The build looks mostly fine, but ya may want to consider Warden over Vindicator, assuming ya want to keep Bulwark and defensive Expertise in Protector.

I definitely find the notion of 2 Fortified Gear specs plus The Best Defense to make Warden an attractive tree selection. But I'm rather enamored with the pairing of Vindicator's Offensive Expertise with Protector's Defensive Expertise. Once SQ is full geared, I'll definitely do some testing to see how much Off-Exp is actually improving the cooldown timer on Aggressor. If her PSS INT and +Cooldown gear is pushing her so far into Diminishing Returns that Off-Exp is only shaving a mere couple of seconds off Aggressor's cooldown, then I'll likely consider swapping Vindicator for Warden.

* * * * * * * * * *

Making some slight adjustments to powers/ranks based on some of your suggestions, I'm looking at dropping Roomsweeper for Defensive Combo, moving CripC from Mighty Leap to DC, applying R3 to Haymaker, and R2 to both Demolisher and DC, and leaving Athletics at R1. Also applying NttG to Mighty Leap (while I hardly ever get involved in PvP, I just now remembered how annoyed Size Queen gets with flying NPCs that refuse to close to melee range).

--Chris

flowcyto · September 2014

All that sounds fine to me. Yeah, much of it may just come down to you having to try out different stuff in the PH for 'feel' before fielding the full build. As ya may know, any power pr advantage that you consider to be more experimental can/should be saved as one of the last power pickups (and after most adv points are spent) just to make re-training it much cheaper.

Oh, I guess its also worth mentioning that while RS does have a melee cone, the last hit of DC also has one- its not easy to hit multiple targets with, but its nice when it does, since each target hit grants a Defiance stack.

dashnochris · November 2015

My apologies in advance if coming back to this thread after a 14-month absence comes off as necro-bumpy. Unfortunately, most of the past year found me with far less time for CO than I would've liked. Just recently, I was finally able to acquire some of the high-end gear I needed to attempt some PTS fiddling with Size Queen.

As we're all aware, since the last time this thread saw any activity, PWE/Cryptic fudged with the way Cooldown Reduction works -- clearly with an eye toward eliminating folks gearing to achieve perma-AO and/or perma-AD powers, etc. Since my aforementioned goal was to make Size Queen as growth-y as possible, I needed to see how this would affect my intent to max out her CD reduction via INT statting and CD gearing. I was looking to maximize the stackability of her Miniaturization Drive + Reciprocating Gizmo for her in-combat size. I was also trying to get Aggressor's CD under 24-25 secs (the duration of Enraged! stacks) to make her capable of maintaining 8 Enraged! stacks out of combat.

To this end, I gave her PTS version a full focus on raising her INT score & CD reduction via PSS, Talents, gear, & mods. She ended up with an INT of 590, and Primary/Secondary Utility gear pieces that add a CD reduction bonus of +469.

This gave her Mini Drive a CD of 19 seconds (it's duration, of course, is still 18 sec).

Her r3 Nano Swarm CD became 77 seconds. The negative impact of CD reduction on the refresh boost Nano Swarm provides took a big hit: instead of the 24 seconds it should apply to powers on CD when clicked, it now would only shave off 13-14 sec.

This still allows her to triple-stack Mini Drive + Recip Gizmo's growth effect (by applying MD#1 with a punch the moment before it expires, immediately clicking & punch-applying MD#2, then using Nano Swarm, and (after a 2-3 sec wait) clicking & punch-applying MD#3. However, this only allows her to hit triple-stack height for 1 second. In the couple of seconds it takes for her to visually grow from double- to triple-stack height, her first stack expires and she shrinks back down to double-stack height the moment after her triple-stack growth animation finishes. Pretty damned unsatisfactory, given how focused she had to be on INT/CD just to get that much.

As for Aggressor, she managed to get its CD reduced to 49 seconds. Still oceans away from the below-24-sec CD I was aiming for (to keep 8 Enraged! stacks up when not in combat).

She could actually get her INT a little higher. I wasn't able to find a Legion's Gloves of Growth for her, so I had to settle for testing with Heroic Gloves of Growth. The Legion piece would allow her 1 extra Growth Amulet, giving her another 25 pts of her PSS (INT). And it appears that the Onslaught secondary gear pieces will allow you to apply up to a rank-5 stat mod to each of them (which might let her add on another 150 INT or so?).

But with her INT already at 590 -- and seeing the effects of diminishing returns on her CD reduction as I gradually stacked on the stat boosts mod by mod -- it seems there's simply no way that even an additional 175 or so INT points would get Aggressor anywhere near the 24 sec CD mark.

It appears that the largest she could ever be outside of combat (without using a Super Magnifier) would be the height she gains from 2 or 3 stacks of Enraged! (by improving her Enrage toggle to r2 or r3).

* * * * * * * * * *

In the time since PWE/Cryptic made their recent adjustments to the way INT & +CD affect the recharge times of powers, have any of you folks that also fiddle with size-shifting heroes found a way to maintain 8 stacks of Enraged! when out of combat?
or a method of achieving triple-stacked Mini Drive size for more than a moment?
is it even possible -- at all -- to achieve quadruple-stacked Mini Drive these days?

Thanks in advance for your feedback, y'all.

--Chris

flowcyto · November 2015

Did you try Howl to upkeep Enrage when out of combat? Higher ranks of it still reduce its base cd- which is even more potent after the CDR nerf.

wraithshadow13 · November 2015

I've been playing around with this build as well, but with the cooldown nerfed, it's impossible to keep a decent giant size going. Considering how unbalanced things are in game, this really didn't make much sense. It's like when they nerfed crowdcontrol into non-existance by making anything above t2 enemies just outright immune.

Unless that's changed recently...

Might Growth Tank Build

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