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Alternative Build Suggestion for Freeform Characters
championshewolf
Posts: 4,375 Arc User
I wish to preface this suggestion with a simple fact; this suggestion would probably require a big investment from the developers to change core engine elements to make it work, so the suggestion is being presented as it is in the intent to hopefully offset the cost and also provide an alternative method for revenue. The suggestion is not a new one, in fact its been around since the launch of the game, but I think it is a worthy one to revisit.
Now the suggestion is simple; making use of the freeform builds buttons to actually represent alternative builds for a players character. It presents options, it helps expand upon character core concepts for many, and also allows players to have alternative builds to fit the various playing fields of the game instead of relying solely on one build to fit them all and causing complications throughout.
First up comes the concept. Its fairly simple concept, but I wont pretend it would be simple to implement. Basically players will be able to purchase an alternative build slot for one of their freeform characters (up to 5) that allows them to have alternate powers, talents, and super stats. These build slots can be tied to the actual freeform characters build buttons and named appropriately.
So what does that mean? What it says basically, go into the C-Store purchase an alternative build for that character and be able to swap a current build into an alternative build. The option would be purchasable up to 5 times on each individual freeform character allowing for a single character to potentially have 5 alternate builds if they so choose.
Now the thing that comes with that is cost. Considering this would have the potential to actually hurt additional character slot sales with people that arent as big into alting, the cost would be weighed against that and considered additionally with the development resources and time that would be required to alter the engine to adapt to such a change. In this case, I would imagine a Zen cost ratio of 900 to 1500 Zen per alternate build slot. Some may say that might be too high of a cost, and it's a legitimate concern, however the counter argument to that is compared to most other games that offer a similar feature, this system would actually allow you to have completely different powers, super stats and other myriad abilities on the same character, not just changing around a few points within the same core group of powers as other game systems do.
So what would the advantages be of such a system? It would allow freeform players to have an alternative build for situations or remove the constant need to visit the powerhouse to change builds for minute challenges, it would provide more options for players that want to only have a certain set up for specific areas of the game, such as different builds for PvP and PvE, and finally it would help expand the customizability of character concepts that have ideas based around different ability from say transformations such as the Hulk, Ben Ten, or other shape shifting hero types. Finally, it would allow players to create builds for alternate roles if they wish to take a break from one role to the next instead of focusing intently on just one role.
Further benefits would stem from gathering of gear for alternate builds that potentially have varying super stats from one piece of gear to the next, so the overall long term investment would be higher as well producing more revenue for the game long term, as players who have an attachment to their main character would put more effort into building them with their alternative builds in mind.
Again this is alternative builds aimed at freeform characters only, which would also help boost the value of the freeform character. In lieu of this the freeform character slot can also potentially have its cost reduced as well to make the purchase more lucrative and raise interest in sales of freeform character slots to those not subscribed.
So what about players that sub off and on and dont have a permanent freeform character slot? When their character goes from gold to silver status the additional builds are locked out and no longer accessible. They dont go away but the player remains with their primary build and has to swap to an AT.
Again I know this suggestion would require an investment from the developers to achieve, but I do believe that the long term return would be very high in this case and may even generate additional interest in the game with the option to expand upon basic character concepts from the standard it is now.
Now the suggestion is simple; making use of the freeform builds buttons to actually represent alternative builds for a players character. It presents options, it helps expand upon character core concepts for many, and also allows players to have alternative builds to fit the various playing fields of the game instead of relying solely on one build to fit them all and causing complications throughout.
First up comes the concept. Its fairly simple concept, but I wont pretend it would be simple to implement. Basically players will be able to purchase an alternative build slot for one of their freeform characters (up to 5) that allows them to have alternate powers, talents, and super stats. These build slots can be tied to the actual freeform characters build buttons and named appropriately.
So what does that mean? What it says basically, go into the C-Store purchase an alternative build for that character and be able to swap a current build into an alternative build. The option would be purchasable up to 5 times on each individual freeform character allowing for a single character to potentially have 5 alternate builds if they so choose.
Now the thing that comes with that is cost. Considering this would have the potential to actually hurt additional character slot sales with people that arent as big into alting, the cost would be weighed against that and considered additionally with the development resources and time that would be required to alter the engine to adapt to such a change. In this case, I would imagine a Zen cost ratio of 900 to 1500 Zen per alternate build slot. Some may say that might be too high of a cost, and it's a legitimate concern, however the counter argument to that is compared to most other games that offer a similar feature, this system would actually allow you to have completely different powers, super stats and other myriad abilities on the same character, not just changing around a few points within the same core group of powers as other game systems do.
So what would the advantages be of such a system? It would allow freeform players to have an alternative build for situations or remove the constant need to visit the powerhouse to change builds for minute challenges, it would provide more options for players that want to only have a certain set up for specific areas of the game, such as different builds for PvP and PvE, and finally it would help expand the customizability of character concepts that have ideas based around different ability from say transformations such as the Hulk, Ben Ten, or other shape shifting hero types. Finally, it would allow players to create builds for alternate roles if they wish to take a break from one role to the next instead of focusing intently on just one role.
Further benefits would stem from gathering of gear for alternate builds that potentially have varying super stats from one piece of gear to the next, so the overall long term investment would be higher as well producing more revenue for the game long term, as players who have an attachment to their main character would put more effort into building them with their alternative builds in mind.
Again this is alternative builds aimed at freeform characters only, which would also help boost the value of the freeform character. In lieu of this the freeform character slot can also potentially have its cost reduced as well to make the purchase more lucrative and raise interest in sales of freeform character slots to those not subscribed.
So what about players that sub off and on and dont have a permanent freeform character slot? When their character goes from gold to silver status the additional builds are locked out and no longer accessible. They dont go away but the player remains with their primary build and has to swap to an AT.
Again I know this suggestion would require an investment from the developers to achieve, but I do believe that the long term return would be very high in this case and may even generate additional interest in the game with the option to expand upon basic character concepts from the standard it is now.
Champions Online player since September of 2008, forumite since February of 2008.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Silverspar on PRIMUS
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CALIGA STAMP OF APPROVAL!
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This is how I thought Builds were supposed to work before I went Gold. :P
/signed
Yes please.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
I'm kinda on the fence, since having multiple builds for one hero wouldn't make much sense for lore/theme, and I'd rather they clean up the AT system first. Buuut... it could reduce the # of min-maxed FFs out there, since people w/ fewer of them would be less inclined to squeeze every drop out of them.
So /signed, I guess.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
Yes, so much YES! This is great suggestion, it's something I could get behind :eek:
This would work Great for Shape-Shifter Builds, Power thief concept, Elemental Builds e.t.c
This will also Fix my Problem with the FF builds which is... I WANT MORE ATTACKS darn it!
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Great idea.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Emma Frost's Diamond and TP modes, Iron Man and his various armors, the classic Jean/Dark Phoenix transition... there's plenty of examples where superheroes have multiple "builds"
Yeah, I am not much of an altaholic. I do have a character who, conceptually, is skilled with bow, unarmed combat, single and dual blades, and has a few gadgets in his utility belt. Multiple builds would allow me to focus on different aspects of the character's abilities at different times.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
I can finally have just ONE armored heroine with multiple weapon / concept loadouts and not have to level each damn one and worry about where I left them all ^_^
Not to mention I could build a proper transcendent martial artist, weapons master, sorceress ...
I would certainly make use of a feature like this (particularly if it had been available 15 alts ago).
On the other hand (and don't think I'm bashing the idea, just playing Devil's Advocate), it would mean that teams could dynamically adjust to whatever a particular encounter calls for, e.g. need more healing -> player(s) switch to healy builds. PvPer's could switch builds based upon their opponents weaknesses. Is that a bad thing? I don't know, maybe not, but it might change the way encounters are balanced.
Also the company would take a hit on the per-character based things that they sell, since there would be much less of an incentive to use alts.
"Without data, you're just another person with an opinion." -- W. Edwards Deming
also
/signed
Member of Paragon Dawn: Because some people like friendly helpful communities.
Yeah some things are broken... no I don't use/abuse them.. where would be the fun in that?
"There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
I actually Support this and I am an Altaholic :eek:
I have character's concept whose Original Builds got abandoned due to the Limited Moves and lack of Synergy
some of my characters had those Combos
Earth + Darkness + Might + Infernal Chains + Heavy Weapons
Munitations + Dual Blades + Unarmed + Bestial Claws + Heavy Weapons
Fire + Electricity + Earth + Ice + Wind (I still can't build a decent Elemental Mage build)
Telekinesis + Telepathy + Celestial + Darkness
Gadgeteer + Force + Munitations + Power Armor + Healing stuff (More Gadgeteer Cryptic PLZ)
with the Alternative Build suggestion I could make them have those powers and be more ACTION Oriental! :biggrin: There are SO MANY POWERS which FIT with my character but I can't have because either I run out of available powers and the Build is very Tight or because the power wasn't really that group forcing me to abandom it despite liking it (Upheaval, Mini Mines, Rocket Laucher e.t.c)
Powers that can be changed completely in the alternate build includes:
Energy Builder
Tier 2 Powers
Blocks
Energy Unlocks
Active Offenses and Defenses
Pets
The only issue with my version of this is that it would conflict with higher tier power requirements.
I'm just suggesting that there needs to be some form of limitation with having alternate power builds. Otherwise it would be a literal other character without all the time you'd have to invest in the game to level up and gear it.
We already have so many power slots available to our characters that we don't need that you could realistically fit two completely separate builds into one character already.
Right now, this is not something they need to be spending time on. You said yourself that this would be a huge project, so this is something to consider later after they complete more important huge projects that justify the need for something like this.
Right now we need more stuff to do, not more systems.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
/SIGNED
This would have to be about 5000 zen worth because if it was only 1500 zen then silvers that have one freeform slot would say hey I'll just pay up 1500 zen to get another freeform character tied to one character.
Alters would alt regardless because they would ahve a different concept with a different toon look and everything. After all other games that do offer multi builds on characters that can potentially be all roles still alt regardless of that fact.
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Well, the main draw of the FF slot to silvers is the freedom of power choice. You are effectively saying that's only worth about 30% of its original price tag to silvers w/ an FF slot.
Prob more an issue w/ how overpriced an FF slot is, though (also for retcon and rename tokens).
Selphea and others that replied to me- I agree that it could be justifiable to most hero concepts, if we're just talking 2 diff builds. The more you add, the less plausible it becomes, in general.
And it seems avianos and spinny have diff outlooks on this matter XD
I usually dun find myself needing extra power slots for my FF's to fit concepts. Its the exception to the rule that I'd need more (beyond just being greedy w/ wanting even more heals or AOs/ADs, etc). Ofc, it seems like most of this want for extra builds is the pressure to fulfill other roles.. which is imo self-imposed, since this game's content really doesn't stress that (and vehicles, where enabled, can make that even less an issue).
Like I said earlier, I'm not opposed to the general idea of alt build slots. I guess I just wouldn't put it as high a priority as other players here. Prob just stems from me finding the process of re-leveling a new toon to not be that big of a deal in this game, and that I find the AT system to be more flawed atm.
- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
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Good point. I'd suggest that all builds share the same Super Stats (but be able to switch them around) and (maybe) talents, for one.
Then what would the point of the alternate build be? If you want to go from say a melee build to a more ranged or even healer oriented, but you have tank based stats, you are fairly well screwed.
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No silver player thought 50 dollars is reasonable for freeform slots either. But that's how it's priced and Cryptic and PWE will lose money if it's lowered or if an alt build for 15 bucks is added.
[SIGPIC]http://imgur.com/9gptU4e[/SIGPIC]
And how do you think they would lose money? I am curious with that one.
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I already said why. Nobody needs to pay for a freeform slot or another one they can just buy this one for 15 dollars.
They're losing out on 35 dollars per freeform slot that could of been bought.
Well let's judge by your math. You are assuming that freeform slots fly off the shelf like hotcakes. Now, being practical since they are $50 dollars, and the likelihood of anyone paying that regularly is slim, I would wager that it would be more like every 2 to 3 months before someone would on average buy a freeform slot. So that's $25 from one person regularly. Meanwhile, someone would pay $15 per build slot on one character. A player might actually buy multiple build slots per character. So say they buy all 5, that's $75 bucks probably over the course of a couple of weeks instead of a few months.
And then there are people who actually enjoy alting coming up with concepts. So they buy another one. Then they buy alternate slots for that character to. So far I am failing to see the loss of an income since it's hard for many of us to fathom that the $50 dollar price tag for freeform is flying off the shelf as is.
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And where do you think the zen comes from on the Q exchange? Cryptic doesn't put it up there. And my assumption is based on what people will most likely do for their concepts, some of whom would definitely buy multiple builds on multiple characters. People who don't alt won't be bothered much by it. And people that do alt aren't going to be that phased anyways, as alters alt for variety not to just have a different build on the same character. Gold subscriptions already get free character slots anyways for being gold subscriptions. So this actually encourages spending money for those characters.
Which would produce more money, $50 every once in a while or people paying $15 at regular intervals? Many players in Champions love to alt because that is their thing. Adding build options won't change that. And others won't bother with alt builds because they think they should be handed the builds instead of having to pay money for them.
So far you seem to be declaring this a lose lose situations when I don't think many see it that way. Those that don't alt aren't going to regardless of what thing you try to say. I don't alt, and my account I have 17 free character slots and every time if I bothered to make a new 40 I get another new free character slot, some with any other gold member.
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- Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
People that do alt will take this and use it to make new alts in one. They will benefit and Cryptic won't make money. It's basically 15 dollars for a permanent freeform slot over 15 dollars per month. Even before I started talking about it being 15 dollars you had the thought it should be between 900-1500 zen, meaning you though it should of been cheaper.
I mean how do you know it's $50 freeform slots bought every once in a while? Do you have a chart that describes this? We're still running on assumptions.
It's not a lose lose situation more of a win lose situation, players will benefit but the developers will get the other reaction. Seeing as silver players have only 2 slots it makes sense they would buy a freeform build and not buy anymore character slots or freeform slots because there is no need. And who knows it might end up a lose lose situation down because Cryptic will have to find other means of revenue like a new lockbox situation.
I recall the first time the 5000 zen FF slot was introduced there was such a positive reaction to it on the forums. Everyone's reply was on how it will help on the money flow for Cryptic/PWE. Everyone was congratulating on it giving silvers an alternative way to get freeform.
While folks will still purchase the FF slots as silvers, I do know that a large group of players would rather not pay that price these days. So offering the ability to have other builds as a option for players who would prefer to have a multi build on one character (for thematic or other purposes) is actually a good incentive to put money into champions than what they would have otherwise. No I don't have any numbers to back this up with specific examples, but I can see the logic in having another source of income. 10 people making a $50 dollar purchase is good, but if you have 100 people making a $15 dollar purchase? You're making more money in the end becuase of more player interest in a product.
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Plus, the $15 (or whatever) fee for a build slot can be used to monetize current lifetime subscribers, whereas the $50 freeform slot fee cannot.