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Aura of Ebon Destruction or Primal Majesty?

hasukurobihasukurobi Posts: 405 Arc User
edited June 2014 in Power Discussion
As the title indicates I am wondering which is honestly superior? Considering that one grants raw extra damage but the other would grant extra damage because it boosts your super stats as well as granting extra benefits because of those stats.
Post edited by hasukurobi on

Comments

  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Well hands down in my personal opinion Aura of Primal Majesty is better. It is the jack-of-all-trades master of none though oftentimes better than master of one. The only true thing that Aura of Ebon Destruction does better is having the 'broken' dps from pets and summons and allies and such. Broken dps aside, for an army-of-one Aura of Primal Majesty is my recommended passive from the two in question(Aura of Arcane Clarity is my most recommended passive but let's not get into that right now).

    You will always deal more damage with Aura of Ebon Destruction no matter how high or low you stack your stats. With that said you can ignore all of the below because it just mainly focuses on proving the previously mentioned point true.


    I will try to put it into perspective for you in terms of the 'average' player and I will not delve into the spec tree.

    First off for all of these below I have Strength as my Primary Superstat while Intelligence and Recovery are my secondary stats. I chose to forgo getting any talents and will just focus on raw rank 7 mods in my gear that equally boost my stats(2Str, 2Int, 2Rec). Oh, and level 40 with rank 3 passives while in the Guardian Role(Hybrid).

    Aura of Ebon Destruction
    Grants 56% Additional Damage 516 Magical Damage
    While Wearing Attack#1 deals 666-1421
    With 8 stacks of "Enrage" Attack#1 deals 785-1674
    While Wearing Attack#2 deals 481-1148
    With 8 stacks of "Concentration" Attack#2 deals 570-1362

    Aura of Primal Majesty
    Grants 61 Additional Stats to each Stat.
    While Wearing Attack#1 deals 580-1236
    With 8 stacks of "Enrage" Attack#1 deals 744-1587
    While Wearing Attack#2 deals 431-1028
    With 8 stacks of "Concentration" Attack#2 deals 553-1320

    But that is all boring...Let's hop on my Ego-stacking Ayo on PTS to get a good idea of how 'diminished' things will be at such an extreme...Oh, and I'm going to use Typhoon as my attack power but only list one of the two damage types(double it and you have my actual damage for this power)

    Aura of Ebon Destruction
    Grants 81% Additional Damage 622 Magical Damage
    While Wearing Attack#1 deals 401-1712
    With 8 stacks of "Concentration" Attack#1 deals 508-2166

    Aura of Primal Majesty
    Grants 82 Additional Stats to each Stat.
    While Wearing Attack#1 deals 346-1474
    With 8 stacks of "Concentration" Attack#1 deals 490-2091

    So, in conclusion, Aura of Ebon Destruction will always deal more damage than Aura of Primal Majesty no matter what.
  • hasukurobihasukurobi Posts: 405 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ayonachan wrote: »
    Well hands down in my personal opinion Aura of Primal Majesty is better. It is the jack-of-all-trades master of none though oftentimes better than master of one. The only true thing that Aura of Ebon Destruction does better is having the 'broken' dps from pets and summons and allies and such. Broken dps aside, for an army-of-one Aura of Primal Majesty is my recommended passive from the two in question(Aura of Arcane Clarity is my most recommended passive but let's not get into that right now).

    You will always deal more damage with Aura of Ebon Destruction no matter how high or low you stack your stats. With that said you can ignore all of the below because it just mainly focuses on proving the previously mentioned point true.

    Well, yes, AoED will deal more damage but by what you showed there it only deals a little more (for a non-pet master anyway) but AoPM also grants more energy, lower costs, and more staying power which I would imagine may mean that in the end the actual result is more damage output for longer periods than AoED yes?

    Also why Arcane Clarity? I, for one, do not use many skills with much in the way of cooldowns on them so that part of it is useless to me and the energy efficiency while certainly good, for the above mentioned reasons as to why AoPM may be better than AoED, would seem to be offset by many other things including AoPM or the much superior circle version of Arcane Clarity.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    AoED also has the ebon lightning dmg proc, which I'm not sure Ayona's example accounted for.

    As far as AoAC- I actually found it pretty good when leveling. The energy cost reduction helped some of the energy issues ya can have when low/mid-level. Unfortunately, for geared lvl 40's the main benefit kinda gets flipped since cost discount won't do much at that stat level, and CDR can still be good for lvl 40s (but highly depends on build). The charge time reduction can also be okay- but again, only for specific builds (in this case, ones w/ many long-charge attacks).
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    ayonachan wrote: »
    You will always deal more damage with Aura of Ebon Destruction no matter how high or low you stack your stats.

    ...

    So, in conclusion, Aura of Ebon Destruction will always deal more damage than Aura of Primal Majesty no matter what.

    But the comparisons you gave exclude spec trees, so does "no matter what" include spec trees?
  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    hasukurobi wrote: »
    Well, yes, AoED will deal more damage but by what you showed there it only deals a little more (for a non-pet master anyway) but AoPM also grants more energy, lower costs, and more staying power which I would imagine may mean that in the end the actual result is more damage output for longer periods than AoED yes?

    Also why Arcane Clarity? I, for one, do not use many skills with much in the way of cooldowns on them so that part of it is useless to me and the energy efficiency while certainly good, for the above mentioned reasons as to why AoPM may be better than AoED, would seem to be offset by many other things including AoPM or the much superior circle version of Arcane Clarity.

    Don't get me wrong, Aura of Primal Majesty is better than Aura of Ebon Destruction. It is the jack-of-all-trades master of none though oftentimes better than master of one. So because of this I went ahead and removed all other variables and just compared the only 'strength' that remains 'constant' of Aura of Ebon Destruction against what Aura of Primal Majesty provides for the same 'strength'. Tooltip Non-Critical damage is said 'strength' and the master is not beaten in this regards for the completely bias tests and numbers I provided.

    Aura of Arcane Clarity...Forgive me Medical Nanites this place isn't for you...

    Baby I don't understand
    Why we can't just hold on
    To each other's hands
    This time might be the last I fear
    Unless I make it all too clear
    I need you so oh
    Take these broken wings
    And learn to fly again learn to live so free
    When we hear the voices sing
    The book of love will open up and let us in
    Take these broken wings
    Baby I think tonight
    We can take what is wrong and make it right
    Mmmm mm
    Baby it's all I know
    That you're half of the flesh
    And blood that makes me whole
    I need you so
    So take these broken wings
    And learn to fly again learn to live so free

    selphea wrote: »
    But the comparisons you gave exclude spec trees, so does "no matter what" include spec trees?


    I will go ahead and say that even without 'fully' testing it, AoED will still provide more damage than Aura of Primal Majesty. Please note that I also left critical returns out because RNG.

    One can assume that AoPM wins in 'dps' due to having more dex thus "more" critical chance and more critical returns on attacks. AoED will deal more non-crit damage and that is all that matters for what I provided.

    Anyway, back to my AoED dealing more non-crit damage. With the same stats, gear, and spec tree Aura of Primal Majesty does not have enough passive damage bonuses to make the poor scaling of offense worthwhile. It is true that Guardian Role provides the greatest passive damage bonus for your superstats than any other role but at the same time it does not gain enough of an 'edge' from the ~246 bonus to your superstats to make enough of a significance.

    There """may""" be some magic instance where one can build their AoPM character to deal greater non-crit damage(from tooltip) than using the same build but with AoED but I highly doubt it since...well..you know, game limitations coupled with poor scaling of offense and poor scaling of passive values in general.

    Oh, btw, only the first set of numbers had no spec tree investment. My PTS Ayo had invested fully into the spec tree but it wasn't "optimized" for the quick test I did with it since I was too lazy to change it from my extremely old and previous test of typhoon. So just swapping out the slotted passives and waiting for my concentration to reset and then building it back up to 8 from 0 while recording the numbers that mattered.

    The more I stop and think about it the more I find little 'holes'. Truly, the 'new' telepathy powers will benefit more from AoPM than AoED(you know, if I only looked at the tooltip non-crit damage) due to more dex/stats when you factor in the spec tree but then again...I don't truly know nor do I even care enough to test it out...Curiosity might be a cruel mistress but come on! I already know AoPM is 'better' so meh.
  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    AoED is for pet/summon builds and little else. If you need an offensive passive for multiple damage types, there's Night Warrior and Quarry.



    I guess I'm just missing something but I really don't understand the seemingly widespread popularity and appeal of AoPM on non-healer builds.

    It made sense when Enrage wasn't a toggle and could be stacked together with particular Forms, having lots of Dexterity was the only way to get a decent crit chance, and SS Int was the only way to get decent cost reduction. But those days are long gone.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    oniganon wrote: »
    AoED is for pet/summon builds and little else. If you need an offensive passive for multiple damage types, there's Night Warrior and Quarry.



    I guess I'm just missing something but I really don't understand the seemingly widespread popularity and appeal of AoPM on non-healer builds.

    It made sense when Enrage wasn't a toggle and could be stacked together with particular Forms, having lots of Dexterity was the only way to get a decent crit chance, and SS Int was the only way to get decent cost reduction. But those days are long gone.

    Try AoPM on a primary Str character with Juggernaut, Brutality, 6 Con mods, Armadillo secs and Wardicator on PTS :p
  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    oniganon wrote: »
    AoED is for pet/summon builds and little else. If you need an offensive passive for multiple damage types, there's Night Warrior and Quarry.

    Ever try using certain passives for the unique parts? AoED was the original 'Night Warrior' until they slapped sneak into Night Warrior. The hours of fun I have had with my gas pistol at my side and healing people while hiding within the safety of the shadows right under the enemy's nose and doing extraordinarily insane damage without actually inflicting any damage myself. Night Warrior..why you gotta mess with my fun?


    Anyway, both, AoED and Night Warrior have the extremely unique quality of being Damage Bonus. What is so special about Damage Bonus? Well, the answer lies within the name...try looking for the few things that are influenced by said bonus that aren't attacks.
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    As far as AoAC- I actually found it pretty good when leveling. The energy cost reduction helped some of the energy issues ya can have when low/mid-level. Unfortunately, for geared lvl 40's the main benefit kinda gets flipped since cost discount won't do much at that stat level, and CDR can still be good for lvl 40s (but highly depends on build). The charge time reduction can also be okay- but again, only for specific builds (in this case, ones w/ many long-charge attacks).

    Without running numbers, my guess would have been that AoPM's boost to energy via INT, REC and DEX, combined with its boost to damage and crits which raises DPE, would work out the same as Arcane Clarity -- maybe better if using a dual-stat energy unlock.
  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Aura scaling with 'broken' stats:

    1066 Pre and Rank 3 Aura of
    Arcane Clarity 46% Power Cost 46% Power Recharge 24% Charge Speed for Teammates in Hybrid Role
    Arcane Clarity 120% Power Cost 120% Power Recharge 27% Charge Speed for Teammates in Support Role
    Ebon Destruction 36% Damage bonus for Teammates in Hybrid Role
    Ebon Destruction 134% Damage bonus for Teammates in Support Role
    Primal Majesty 49 Bonus to All Stats for Teammates in Hybrid Role
    Primal Majesty 132 Bonus to All Stats for Teammates in Support Role
    Radiant Protection 117% Resistance to all Damage for Teammates in Hybrid Role
    Radiant Protection 206% Resistance to all Damage for Teammates in Support Role

    1066+195+188 Stats and Rank 3 Aura of
    Arcane Clarity 53% Power Cost 53% Power Recharge 40% Charge Speed for Yourself in Hybrid Role
    Arcane Clarity 47% Power Cost 47% Power Recharge 35% Charge Speed for Yourself in Support Role
    Ebon Destruction 109% Damage bonus for Yourself in Hybrid Role
    Ebon Destruction 90% Damage bonus for Yourself in Support Role
    Primal Majesty 92 Bonus to All Stats for Yourself in Hybrid Role
    Primal Majesty 87 Bonus to All Stats for Yourself in Support Role
    Radiant Protection 161% Resistance to all Damage for Yourself in Hybrid Role
    Radiant Protection 103% Resistance to all Damage for Yourself in Support Role

    Note1: ChargeSpeed for yourself on Aura of Arcane Clarity scales only on Pre. This is a 'bug' that has yet to be fixed.
    Note2: The displayed bonus for Aura of Primal Majesty is 'wrong' the actual value is increased due to 'roll-over' but for all intents and purposes just accept the displayed value.
    Note3: Aura of Radiant Protection can get over 150%+ resistance to all damage while in the hybrid role. This is more than the highest possible 'broken stats' Defiance(22% per stack).
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hm, didn't realize Pres was the only thing affecting the self charge speed bonus to AoAC. Good to know.

    30-40% charge speed reduction could be pretty awesome for some builds.. too bad that'd require far too much Pres for a dps. The main benefit to AoAC at lvl 40, imo, is still the CDR.
    Without running numbers, my guess would have been that AoPM's boost to energy via INT, REC and DEX, combined with its boost to damage and crits which raises DPE, would work out the same as Arcane Clarity -- maybe better if using a dual-stat energy unlock.

    Yeah, at lvl 40 the cost discount aspect of AoAC isn't going to do much due to the heavy DR it has at those gear levels. At that point, AoPM's flat boost to stats to help energy return from Toggles and EU's would probably be a more concrete benefit, energy-wise.

    For my committed dps toons, AoPM from a Support ally isn't much of a dps boost- its more stark in what it does w/ energy management, plus offering a bit of a boost to health (my lvl 40s typically don't need the extra energy assist, though it can be handy).
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • bravehoptoadbravehoptoad Posts: 248 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    ayonachan wrote: »
    Anyway, both, AoED and Night Warrior have the extremely unique quality of being Damage Bonus. What is so special about Damage Bonus? Well, the answer lies within the name...try looking for the few things that are influenced by said bonus that aren't attacks.

    Does this count as a necro?

    I couldn't solve the riddle...can't search the Wiki on the Wayback machine. So...what is influenced by Damage Bonus that isn't an attack?
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Hm... I haven't tested this, but maybe break-free damage? Only "damage" thing I can think of that's not an attack...
  • ajanusajanus Posts: 501 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Could also be:

    1. Dots like bleeds, poisons, or any adv. that applies additional damage.
    2. Damage from advantages of non-attacks like the reactive damage of Bionic Shield, and I think a few talent trees have something like this. 'when you get hit, your attacker takes X damage.' type things.

    The break-free damage was a really good idea too.


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  • ayonachanayonachan Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    Does this count as a necro?

    I couldn't solve the riddle...can't search the Wiki on the Wayback machine. So...what is influenced by Damage Bonus that isn't an attack?

    Damage Bonus-type damage bonus influences various things that aren't damage nor deal it. Suffice to say it is a small list of things that range from utility to...utility...but to help ease your suffering the answer to your question is not and never was on the wiki.

    Things like draysha gas pistol and ice barrier have their 'utility' increased because of Damage Bonus-type damage bonus(also, if memory serves me draysha gas pistol's damage bonus is Damage Bonus-type so it would influence draysha gas pistol allowing for a 'broken damage bonus' loop if coordinated properly with enough people).
    There are various other things that are influenced by Damage Bonus-type damage bonus but their usefulness varies and I never really cared to make a list since everyone just uses AoED/NightWarrior for their broken DPS/Damage/Stealth-Healing.
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