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Caliga Build: Threatening Haymakers

xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
edited August 2016 in Builds and Roles
DUE THE MASSIVE RECENT POWER PASS, THIS BUILD IS SLIGHTLY OUT OF DATE, WILL BE UPDATED AT A LATER TIME!

For the longest time I've developed myself into a tank, I always get this question: "How do you generate so much threat Caliga?"

I always explain it, but people keep asking. So I give in, and I present to you, my build, along with my gear, and how I do it.

CALIGA BUILD: THREATENING HAYMAKERS

Caliga_Punch.jpg

Here is the link to the build, study it, and read a brief description of it below: The Build.

PowerHouse (Link to this build)

Archetype: Freeform

Super Stats:
Level 6: Strength (Primary)
Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

Talents:
Level 1: The Behemoth
Level 6: Mighty
Level 9: Enduring
Level 12: Paramilitary Training
Level 15: Physical Conditioning
Level 18: Quick Recovery
Level 21: Relentless

Powers:
Level 1: Clobber
Level 1: Defiance
Level 6: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
Level 11: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 14: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 17: Your Choice of Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 26: Ego Surge(Nimble Mind)
Level 29: Unbreakable
Level 32: Masterful Dodge
Level 35:Your Choice
Level 38:Your Choice

***6 ADVANTAGE POINTS LEFT OVER!!!!***

Travel Powers:
Level 6: Your Choice (Rank 2, Rank 3)
Level 35: Your Choice

Specializations:
Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
Strength: Aggression (2/2)
Strength: Brutality (2/2)
Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
Warden: Elusive (2/2)
Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)

---This is not a leveling build. This is an overall might damage, tanking build. Meaning this build is made so you can take hits, and hit back even harder.

---This is my CURRENT build, it is also a build that leaves room for MANY alterations, do so as you please.


You may notice I do not have Crippling Challenge on any of my attacks, or have any attack at all that can use it. The reason is simple. This build is designed to hold aggro through damage. It accomplishes this through energy management of enrage and defiance and spamming FULL CHARGE HAYMAKERS CONSISTENTLY. Iron Cyclone ensures a well enough AoE group friendly threat gen, while still hitting reasonably hard, and adding knock effects to affected targets that are still manageable within the group. You may notice I have 19% critical rating. This is intended as I am using a Vigilante critical secondary and Justice Precision Primary. That alone gives you 19% critical rating ( with my gear setup ). "Focused Strikes" from Vindicator spec, actually gives another 6%, UNTOP of that 19%, for 25% TOTAL CRITICAL RATING. This, on average, basically means you critical your haymakers 1 out of every 4 charges/taps, which should be more than enough to hold threat on super villain/legendary/cosmic entities, as haymaker hits hard already, regardless if it crits or not!

Caliga_Justice_Gear_Veteran_Cores.png
Veteran_Justice_Gear.png

Current Gear and Stats Shown: Justice Precision: 2 R9 CON, Depleted Uranium Core, Veteran's Core of Might, Justice Fitness: 2 R9 CON, 2 R9 Impact, Justice Speed: 2 R9 STR, R9 Growth, R9 Gambler, Vigilante Secondaries.

Gear Requirements:

Gear Minimal requirements: STR/CON Mods for all Primaries, Heroic Offense Primary, Heroic Defense Primary, Any Heroic Utility Primary. Impact Gems Offensive primary, Impact Gems, Defensive Primary, Gambler Gems Utility Primary.

Optimized Gear and RECOMMENDED FOR NON LIFE-TIME SUBSCRIBERS: STR/CON Mods for all Primaries, Legion/Justice Offense Primary, Legion/Justice Defense Primary, Any Legion/Justice Utiliy. Impact Gems Offensive primary, Impact Gems Defensive Primary, Gambler Gems Utility Primary.

Vigilante secondaries.

How to play the build: It's really simple, so easy a baby elephant can do it. You simply charge in, full charge and uppercut, and from there, just full charge haymakers the entire time. The full charge uppercut at the beginning will ensure you build 8 stacks of enrage within 12 seconds.

You may notice that the build has 2 power slots left over that are labled "Your Choice", along with 6 advantage points that should be left over. The choice is yours with what you want to fill those power slots with.
Post edited by xcaligax on
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Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    *crowd screams* It's here! *DUN DUN DUNNNNN*


    I assume one of the open power slots could be Guard or Retaliation for some added dmg after blocking (and/or Rising Knee w/ FS, Demolish w/ BttB, UR, Parry w/ EM). (Pounce can also proc Enrage, if ya dun mind changing the lunge)

    Prob shouldn't admit that I had already figured out most of ur build just from watching it a few times :X Yea it isn't really that complex when ya get down to it, but I can understand why you get asked about it often.

    I am surprised by the Recovery SS, though. Do you find you really need that w/ the large energy return from Defiance and Enrage + tons of Str (and blocking)? Could be more dps to swap that for Dex otherwise.

    Juggernaut may not be fully worth 3 points for this- I mean Defiance already gives you high damage resist when stacked that the defense from Juggy isn't as much a final mitigation boost. You could open up some crit scaling from all that Str gearing w/ even just 1 point in Overpower.

    Also, have you tried using Bulwark w/ Protector in the Hybrid role, or would that be too much of a health hit?
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • faredawg1faredawg1 Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I wonder when I hit The Build Link, it shows an empty Powerhouse sheet? Any chance to list the details here?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    faredawg1 wrote: »
    I wonder when I hit The Build Link, it shows an empty Powerhouse sheet? Any chance to list the details here?

    hm, what browser are you using?

    Here's the export form the link, btw:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: Superhuman
    Level 6: Mighty
    Level 9: Enduring
    Level 12: Tireless
    Level 15: Physical Conditioning
    Level 18: Quick Recovery
    Level 21: Relentless

    Powers:
    Level 1: Clobber
    Level 1: Defiance
    Level 6: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 11: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Thunderbolt Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Aggressor
    Level 29: Unbreakable
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35:
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Superspeed

    Specializations:
    Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
    Strength: Aggression (2/2)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    *crowd screams* It's here! *DUN DUN DUNNNNN*


    I assume one of the open power slots could be Guard or Retaliation for some added dmg after blocking (and/or Rising Knee w/ FS, Demolish w/ BttB, UR, Parry w/ EM). (Pounce can also proc Enrage, if ya dun mind changing the lunge)

    Prob shouldn't admit that I had already figured out most of ur build just from watching it a few times :X Yea it isn't really that complex when ya get down to it, but I can understand why you get asked about it often.

    I am surprised by the Recovery SS, though. Do you find you really need that w/ the large energy return from Defiance and Enrage + tons of Str (and blocking)? Could be more dps to swap that for Dex otherwise.

    Juggernaut may not be fully worth 3 points for this- I mean Defiance already gives you high damage resist when stacked that the defense from Juggy isn't as much a final mitigation boost. You could open up some crit scaling from all that Str gearing w/ even just 1 point in Overpower.

    Also, have you tried using Bulwark w/ Protector in the Hybrid role, or would that be too much of a health hit?


    Recovery is there because with any kind of utility primary with a gambler gem, the cost discount, combined with physical peak is already so dirt cheap to spam haymaker and anything else, that energy isnt an issue at all. With this build, you basically ignore the 3rd super stat, which is in this case, recovery. You could as Dex if you could, but you would only get around 68 of it, maybe less, unless you mod for it yourself.

    I tried using Bulwark W/ Protector as well. The health is increased, however the damage is noticeably lower. It's a matter of preference, and to me, my preference is to hit hard, so I go with the latter of warden/vindicator.
  • chimerafreekchimerafreek Posts: 383 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I mades an edit that has Cal also use his sword :v

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: Superhuman
    Level 6: Mighty
    Level 9: Enduring
    Level 12: Tireless
    Level 15: Physical Conditioning
    Level 18: Quick Recovery
    Level 21: Relentless

    Powers:
    Level 1: Clobber
    Level 1: Defiance
    Level 6: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 11: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Decimate (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 20: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Aggressor
    Level 29: Unbreakable
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge
    Level 35: Brute Strike (Rank 2, Concussion)
    Level 38: Guard

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Superspeed

    Specializations:
    Strength: Physical Peak (3/3)
    Strength: Aggression (2/2)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
    __________________
    @Chimerafreek
  • faredawg1faredawg1 Posts: 15 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Thanks for posting. I use Internet Explorer.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Recovery is there because with any kind of utility primary with a gambler gem, the cost discount, combined with physical peak is already so dirt cheap to spam haymaker and anything else, that energy isnt an issue at all. With this build, you basically ignore the 3rd super stat, which is in this case, recovery. You could as Dex if you could, but you would only get around 68 of it, maybe less, unless you mod for it yourself.

    I see. Yeah the diff wouldn't be that much between less than a full mod's worth of Rec vs. Dex. I would ignore Rec gearing too at lvl 40 (does actually help w/ leveling- and this build actually could work for leveling if you replace Cyclone w/ Beatdown until lvl 8 or 11, and then respeced once Uppercut/Enrage was unlocked- also moving BCR or Conviction before the lunge to have a heal earlier).

    to illustrate that- for early levels, do something like this:

    Powers:
    Level 1: Clobber
    Level 1: Defiance
    Level 6: Beatdown (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Vortex Technique)

    At lvl 11, change the post-level 1 powers to build something like this:

    Powers:
    Level 1: Clobber
    Level 1: Defiance
    Level 6: Iron Cyclone (Rank 2, Rank 3, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 8: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 11: Uppercut (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Haymaker (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Thunderbolt Lunge (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 23: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Aggressor
    Level 29: Unbreakable
    Level 32: Masterful Dodge

    .. and then add options from there.
    I tried using Bulwark W/ Protector as well. The health is increased, however the damage is noticeably lower. It's a matter of preference, and to me, my preference is to hit hard, so I go with the latter of warden/vindicator.

    Well, I meant going to the Hybrid role w/ Bulwark so you get that role's larger dmg (and healing) bonus over the Tank role, while retaining the SS scaling w/ threat. Ofc, staying in Tank role w/ Protector & Bulwark does mean more health and is better for overall survival, but that's not what I was getting at.
    faredawg1 wrote: »
    Thanks for posting. I use Internet Explorer.

    Huh, weird. I dun normally use IE (so mostly default settings), but the version of it I have (11.0.9600) does show the link properly.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »



    Well, I meant going to the Hybrid role w/ Bulwark so you get that role's larger dmg (and healing) bonus over the Tank role, while retaining the SS scaling w/ threat. Ofc, staying in Tank role w/ Protector & Bulwark does mean more health and is better for overall survival, but that's not what I was getting at.



    In terms of threat generation, Tank role for this build generates alot more threat. Hybrid with Bulwark , considering you have all rank 7s, would generate around 20-25% less threat, according to tool tip description anyway. Healing is increased along with damage and energy generation, but at the cost of less durability and threat handling.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    In terms of threat generation, Tank role for this build generates alot more threat. Hybrid with Bulwark , considering you have all rank 7s, would generate around 20-25% less threat, according to tool tip description anyway. Healing is increased along with damage and energy generation, but at the cost of less durability and threat handling.

    I guess it could be seen as a variant, then, since it has its share of gains and loses. The Protector/Bulwark route does make swapping between the two roles more meaningful (if you are willing to adapt that style of gameplay)- say if you wanted to use the Hybrid route for solo or easy/Alert content, and Tank role's threat and health boost as the big-boy pants for things like Frosticus or Gravi. Its not as all-rounder/holistic as Wardicator and sticking to the Tank role, though.

    (not trying to detract from ur concept, btw; just looking into options that keep the core of it in-tact)
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    You may notice that the build has 2 power slots left over, along with 9 advantage points. The choice is yours with what you want to fill those power slots with.

    Which powers do you use there and what do you do with the 9 advantage points?
    _________
    VARIANT



    "Nearly all men can withstand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power."

    -Abraham Lincoln-
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Thanks for posting your build Caliga. I'm always really interested to see how other players are getting the most out of Might.

    I notice you haven't ranked up Aggressor. Could you explain that choice? The reason I ask is because I have it at R3 and I've been reading that a lot of people don't rank up their AOs at all, and as I get more of a DPS boost from Ego Surge with Nimble Mind I've been considering dropping Aggressor altogether. I build Engrage quicly with Uppercut > Haymaker, and if I could take one more power I might choose to bring back Roomsweeper for better AoE.

    Also curious that you don't have Demolish in there. Is that one of your unspecified powers, or do you find it's better to just focus on pumping out Haymakers?
    __________________________________________________
    The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2014
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    oniganon wrote: »
    Doesn't partial charge Haymaker generate more DPS?

    actually, the tapped vs. full charge base dps diff isn't that large for Haymaker (~443 vs 422), instead the knock immune bonus dmg multiplier goes up rapidly w/ charging- from 0% when tapped to 50% on full charge.

    Against knock-able targets you prob wanna tap Haymaker (unless you actually want to send them flying out of ur range for CC or laughs or w/e), but on knock-immune ones full charging is the highest dps for it due to the 50% multiplier.


    As far as cptmillennium's questions, I think it just stems from the build being tank-oriented, so Caliga put priorities on filling that out for the template and left the rest open. But I'll wait for his explanation.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Which powers do you use there and what do you do with the 9 advantage points?

    Thanks for posting your build Caliga. I'm always really interested to see how other players are getting the most out of Might.

    I notice you haven't ranked up Aggressor. Could you explain that choice? The reason I ask is because I have it at R3 and I've been reading that a lot of people don't rank up their AOs at all, and as I get more of a DPS boost from Ego Surge with Nimble Mind I've been considering dropping Aggressor altogether. I build Engrage quicly with Uppercut > Haymaker, and if I could take one more power I might choose to bring back Roomsweeper for better AoE.

    Also curious that you don't have Demolish in there. Is that one of your unspecified powers, or do you find it's better to just focus on pumping out Haymakers?

    Active offenses are more of a preference when ranking them. In terms of damage, it's not too much noticeable. For example, it actually takes a Haymaker 4 seconds to fire off completely, and at base, an AO is 12 seconds. The extra points invested into making that AO last another 2 seconds is simply not worth it to me when using an ability like Haymaker with it's long charge up.

    As for your other question, I personally use a block power ( it can be any, whatever fits your concept ), and Particle Smash for the extra added spike attack that's cheap, short CD, aoe, and hits hard. Particle Smash also fits my concept of being a guy wearing power armor :P. But in overall general tanking purposes on bosses and cosmics, I just keep pumping full Haymakers.
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I imagine Retaliation makes for a good block power. I'm imagining a full-power Haymaker with the Retaliation buff on it would spike a lot of damage.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Unfortunately the bonus dmg boost form Retali/Guard is passive (not high-layered or 'multiplicative'), and sometimes has a notable delay on proccing and an internal cd, so its prob not going to be as good as advertised in practice (and it can be wasted on an end builder slipping in, if you have one toggled on). It is a good block choice for the build, ofc, but Parry is an easier option for dmg kickback from blocking- depending on how heavy the inc attacks are.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I'd be more impressed with Parry's reflect attack if it wasn't limited to just the first blocked attack.
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  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Force Shield with Force Sheath is my overall favorite, with its lingering semi-block with no damage penalty, plus energy return.
  • jamesbonnelljamesbonnell Posts: 169 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I tend to use Ebon void / voracious darkness a lot myself. DPS I tend to give Force Shield - or sometimes TK shield.

    Meleers often get energy shield. But I like the SFX.

    My might tank is due to hit 40 pretty soon - I'll have to think about your post some. I've been mostly avoiding knocks (Iron Cyclone / vortex technique), and Demolish as my main attacks, with Defensive Combo int eh mix with Invuln as the passive.

    I have tried Vicious Cyclone on another char - kind of a DPS/DOT defiance tank - and I'm wondering if there's any particular advantage to one or the other - anyone compared the two directly?
  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    the knock immune bonus dmg multiplier goes up rapidly w/ charging- from 0% when tapped to 50% on full charge

    Huh. Is that something particular to Haymaker, or is it true of all knock attacks?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    oniganon wrote: »
    Huh. Is that something particular to Haymaker, or is it true of all knock attacks?

    It varies, but most powers that can knock get a knock-immune multiplier, even if its not always stated on the tooltip or is not very much (lowest tends to be ~5-10% range).

    Generally- the larger the power's knock magnitude, the larger its knock immune bonus will be; so that puts Haymaker up there (50% is the highest the bonus can get, afaik).

    (and that bonus doesn't increase w/ stats or anything- its just inherent to each power that has it)
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Unfortunately, this build ( depending on who you fight, and what you choose for your last 2 powers, ) gives you a hard time fighting bleeds or heavy DoTs. This weakness was made apparent to me when fighting my fellow SG member, SilverSpar. Granted that SilverSpar in my opinion is one of the best tanks in the game that can also hit very hard.... Still though.

    EDIT: I will continue to experiment with different blocks/powers for the last 2 power slots, and gear, to find an overall better stabilized build that has no apparent weakness. Will update the thread more as I experiment. As of right now, the current build posted is still EXTREMELY EFFECTIVE for overall tanking, damage dealing, and threat generation.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    build update: After much testing vs PvP oriented builds ( trauma, Force geyser, Strafing Run, etc etc ), damage spiking builds (Unleashed Rage, Strafing Run, 2gm, etc etc ), and the like, I've found a more optimized gear setting for the current build that performs better than the last gear recommendations. They are as listed below.

    Will update first page.

    Optimized Gear: STR/CON Mods for all Primaries, Legion/Justice Offense Primary, Legion/Justice Defense Primary, Any Legion/Justice Utiliy. Impact Gems Offensive primary, Impact Gems Defensive Primary, Gambler Gems Utility Primary.

    Vigilante secondaries.
  • c3rvand0c3rvand0 Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I am surprised to see BCR as a heal, as it is a tiny one and you have Conviction already. I only see BCR plus RR with dodge builds usually. With CON as a secondary, wouldn't Resurgence make more sense?

    Also, I tend to avoid single stat talents as they are inefficient. However, since you don't intend ranking REC very high, it would still make sense to change the primary to Savage and swapping Tireless to Paramilitary training. STR and CON would be a point higher, REC the same and END 3 higher and DEX 5. Thus a gain of 10 stat points and slightly better crit chance.
    _______________________________________________________________________[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Optimized Gear: STR/CON Mods for all Primaries, Legion/Justice Offense Primary, Legion/Justice Defense Primary, Any Legion/Justice Utiliy. Impact Gems Offensive primary, Impact Gems Defensive Primary, Gambler Gems Utility Primary.

    This is interesting. Have you abandoned crits entirely in favor of higher Offense/Defense from Wardicator?
    __________________________________________________
    The poster formerly known as Lightwave!
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    c3rvand0 wrote: »
    I am surprised to see BCR as a heal, as it is a tiny one and you have Conviction already. I only see BCR plus RR with dodge builds usually. With CON as a secondary, wouldn't Resurgence make more sense?

    Also, I tend to avoid single stat talents as they are inefficient. However, since you don't intend ranking REC very high, it would still make sense to change the primary to Savage and swapping Tireless to Paramilitary training. STR and CON would be a point higher, REC the same and END 3 higher and DEX 5. Thus a gain of 10 stat points and slightly better crit chance.

    My BCR is at rank 3, taking the RR advantage would be pointless for this build, which just soaks up damage. Resurgence has a long CD since it's an AD, and with damage heavy fights like Gravitar or Fire and Ice, where the damage is constant, the BCR's constant healing I feel helps out alot more.

    As for your suggestion about swapping Super Human to Savage, and Tireless to Paramilitary training, you are right. I have done that now, and I have seen nothing but an increase in all stats, and absolutely no loss. Thank you for suggesting, and even changing this build more :). I will update the build. Thank you.
    This is interesting. Have you abandoned crits entirely in favor of higher Offense/Defense from Wardicator?

    Yes and No. I find that what I am currently using, which is high defense and high offense with wardicator, and no crits unless buffed by outside variants such as AoPM or the like, I find myself constantly doing 6.7-7.1k haymakers on the regeneration dummies, on self buffs, with no Active offense. With a Vigilante's critical belt, I have 13% crit from gear alone, and with "Focused Strikes" from vindicator, that is an extra 6%, giving me 19% actual total, which basically translates to, on average, 1 crit, every 5 haymakers, which is perfectly fine for a slow charge up, and hard hitting power like haymaker, which hits hard even without a crit. I however have updated the build again, and am currently using ego surge as my crit modifier, which for obvious reasons, I am keeping, and use as my damage spiker.

    Again, I will update the first page of the build.
  • c3rvand0c3rvand0 Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    My BCR is at rank 3, taking the RR advantage would be pointless for this build, which just soaks up damage. Resurgence has a long CD since it's an AD, and with damage heavy fights like Gravitar or Fire and Ice, where the damage is constant, the BCR's constant healing I feel helps out alot more.

    I didn't make myself very clear. I agree that taking RR for your build would be useless, but my point was that normally I only see BCR in dodge builds. I am surprised that you need such a small trickle of healing and don't find resurgence's massive heal handy for those oh **** moments. I guess healing devices give you that, albeit with an even greater cool down. What kind of heals do you get from BCR?
    xcaligax wrote: »
    As for your suggestion about swapping Super Human to Savage, and Tireless to Paramilitary training, you are right. I have done that now, and I have seen nothing but an increase in all stats, and absolutely no loss. Thank you for suggesting, and even changing this build more :). I will update the build. Thank you.

    Glad to help. All my builds use talents that improve minimum 2 stats rather than 1 as you gain more points that way. However, in some builds were maxing two stats would be better, then I can see a reason to go for talents that focus on 1 stat only.
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  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    c3rvand0 wrote: »
    I didn't make myself very clear. I agree that taking RR for your build would be useless, but my point was that normally I only see BCR in dodge builds. I am surprised that you need such a small trickle of healing and don't find resurgence's massive heal handy for those oh **** moments. I guess healing devices give you that, albeit with an even greater cool down. What kind of heals do you get from BCR?

    1448 over the course of 15 seconds. It might not sound like much at all, but the trickling constant healing, and the fact that I can stack it twice ( the debuff to damage of 9.1% is only applied once, even with 2 stacks, I tested it and urge others to test just to make sure ), helps mitigate an overall larger amount of damage over the course of an extended fight without constantly pressing conviction to waste to shared global cooldown with all the powers. This is just my preferred style of tanking. It allows me to focus more on actually doing damage and holding the target's attention, than focusing on staying alive.
  • c3rvand0c3rvand0 Posts: 403 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    1448 over the course of 15 seconds. It might not sound like much at all, but the trickling constant healing, and the fact that I can stack it twice ( the debuff to damage of 9.1% is only applied once, even with 2 stacks, I tested it and urge others to test just to make sure ), helps mitigate an overall larger amount of damage over the course of an extended fight without constantly pressing conviction to waste to shared global cooldown with all the powers. This is just my preferred style of tanking. It allows me to focus more on actually doing damage and holding the target's attention, than focusing on staying alive.

    OK, I see your logic, thanks for explaining it in more detail.
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  • aiqaaiqa Posts: 2,620 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    It might not sound like much at all, but the trickling constant healing, and the fact that I can stack it twice ( the debuff to damage of 9.1% is only applied once, even with 2 stacks, I tested it and urge others to test just to make sure )

    Confirmed, a year ago (the last time I used BCR on any build) the debuff added on every stack, this was the very reason I stopped using it. But that changed apparently, a 9.1% debuf is still a lot so I still don't like it very much, but it is not a bad choice anymore.

    If I were to guess, I'd say this changed when the debuff numbers were changed.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    aiqa wrote: »
    Confirmed, a year ago (the last time I used BCR on any build) the debuff added on every stack, this was the very reason I stopped using it. But that changed apparently, a 9.1% debuf is still a lot so I still don't like it very much, but it is not a bad choice anymore.

    If I were to guess, I'd say this changed when the debuff numbers were changed.

    That's very much possible. I also won't rule out the use of Bionic shielding for an alternative healing method to BCR, as it doesn't interfere with the shared global skill cooldown, however I would have to test it in a setting that is harder to achieve ( such as fighting Gravitar solo for about 10 minutes without interference from the other 9 players ).

    Right now I am also experimenting with all ranks of demolish on tap vs R2 with advantage, vs R1 Arc of Ruin with advantage ( No quarter ).

    My experimentation with those moves listed above will be comparing the pros and cons of the energy comparisons, along with full charging vs taps, and another important factor: Activation times.

    Will update this thread and the front with findings if they are worth adjusting the build yet again.
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Thread updated. Changed "The Savage" to "The Behemoth"
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I would probably take Gambler's over Impact gems for the Offense slot- just cause Ward/Guardicator puts you pretty heavy into Offense DR as is, and w/ a lower crit/Dex rating the Gambler's would get a higher stat return.

    At those stats, you'd prob only gain about 1.3-2.3% Offense (which doesn't multiply off crit severity) from an Impact gem vs. ~6-8% crit from a Gambler's gem.
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  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    I would probably take Gambler's over Impact gems for the Offense slot- just cause Ward/Guardicator puts you pretty heavy into Offense DR as is, and w/ a lower crit/Dex rating the Gambler's would get a higher stat return.

    At those stats, you'd prob only gain about 1.3-2.3% Offense (which doesn't multiply off crit severity) from an Impact gem vs. ~6-8% crit from a Gambler's gem.

    This is true, with the Gambler Gem, my crit rating goes to 26%, on the stat sheet, and 32% actual when factoring Focused Strikes on single target attacks.

    However, without that Impact gem, my offense shoots down by 3%, making it 22%, but my defense shoots down by 6%, making it 105%.

    Although still considered very good, it's more of a matter of preference if I would rather have even more damage ( through increased criticals of the gambler ), or have slightly higher defensive damage soaking ( Impact Gem ).

    Again, thank you for the review and feedback. The build will never be absolutely perfect, and will always go through changes to find the most efficient damage to threat ratio with survivable mechanics.

    Currently after some help testing with Kaiserin ( thanks Kai! ), Damage output on this build is currently standing at around 3.5-3.7k DPS, considering if you have the gear I have on ( on the first page ), and when played appropriately.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    durp- I was using lower ranked gems when I looked at that in game on a melee FF of mine. So yeah the numbers I gave are prob a bit off for the high-ranked mods.

    Anyways, I wouldn't worry too much about general Defense/dmg resist boosts for this build. Since you use Defiance and have so much Defense already, adding more damage resist actually has a small effect on final dmg mitigation.

    I wouldn't quite know w/ ur stats, but just using a simplified example of a lvl 40 w/ ~280 Con Defiance tank w/ ~50% dmg resist from Defense alone (~17% dmg resist per Defiance stack).

    6*17% + 50% = 152% total dmg resist w/ 6 stacks of Defiance

    final dmg mitigated* = 1 - [1 / (1+1.52)] = 0.603 or 60.3%

    (*w/o considering dodge, block, or dmg shielding)

    Adding 5% more dmg resist from Defense would give the example tank 157% dmg resist, and in terms of final dmg mitigated:

    1 - [(1 / (1+1.57)] = 0.6109 or 61.1%

    IOW, w/ Defiance and decent Defense, 5% more dmg resist results in about 0.8% more final dmg mitigated. Not really that much tbh. At that point even the nerfed dodge rating would prob be better for survival. Its why if I look at builds w/ Defiance (or even Invuln) I tend to look into dodge boosts over general defense or dmg resist ones.
    Again, thank you for the review and feedback. The build will never be absolutely perfect, and will always go through changes to find the most efficient damage to threat ratio with survivable mechanics.

    happy to help. Yeah gear/build optimization can be an endless pursuit (well, maybe not in this game), but the fundamentals of the build are rock solid regardless, and that's what matters most, really :X

    And 3.5k dps is pretty insane for a tank. Wow..
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  • xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Thread Update: Stats and Gear.
    Thread Update: Stats description.
  • stellariodragonstellariodragon Posts: 588 Arc User
    edited June 2014
    I I mixed this with the regen bestial build I had and got a decent tank.


    I was able to tank Gravitar for once. Looking forward to challenging Frosticus. Thanks Caliga!
  • tsariastsarias Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    question: how do you think this build work work if instead of using defiance as a defensive, you used invulnerability and then used defensive combo to rack up a stack of defiance, or more depending on the number of mobs you tag with the last hit

    i've always been a fan of invulnerability since its reduction doesn't have to ramp up the way that defiance does when its slotted.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Energy would be my primary concern from dropping Defiant but not putting more into energy stats. And ya need 4 adv points devoted to it vs. the open slots.
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  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Juggernaut + the TBD/AS loop takes care of the Defiance ramp-up problem on this build, but if you really want to use Invulnerability then my advice is to take Force Sheath for the energy proc. You will loose a little DPS & Threat from having to tap it though. This build is rather reliant on Defiance's energy proc.
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  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    With Invul you have the freedom to go lighter on Con without worrying about losing defense.

    If going lighter on Con sounds suicidal, it's actually not that suicidal really. It means you can get SS Int with moderate Int for an airtight AD rotation for example.

    But I would say Str tree with Juggernaut is the most user-friendly.
  • tsariastsarias Posts: 2 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    if the point is to keep enraged charged up by using knocks with haymaker repeatedly... why use uppercut? does it trigger more stacks of enrage on tis own or something?
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    tsarias wrote: »
    if the point is to keep enraged charged up by using knocks with haymaker repeatedly... why use uppercut? does it trigger more stacks of enrage on tis own or something?

    As I remember it, if you Haymaker an enemy immediately after you Uppercut him, you get an extra stack of Enraged. Personally, I prefer to Thunderclap then Roomsweeper.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ya get extra stacks on Enrage if ya use Haymaker on a target ya recently hit w/ Uppercut- just a means to building to 8 stacks faster. Not essential, but can be nice in shorter engagements.

    Ofc, another means of gaining Enrage early on is to use R2-3 Aggressor and gets lotsa CDR- w/ good enough CDR/Int ya can keep stacking Enrage out of combat just by using Aggressor. Unbreakable has an adv that also helps gain enrage when getting hit w/ the shield up.
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  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Hm, quick question: with that much strength, how much crit chance would Overpower give you per point? (Paper-napkin level math seems to indicate that, at 5% per point, it'd be slightly higher DPS to swap one point from Brutality...)
  • jimhsuajimhsua Posts: 1 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    morigosa wrote: »
    Hm, quick question: with that much strength, how much crit chance would Overpower give you per point? (Paper-napkin level math seems to indicate that, at 5% per point, it'd be slightly higher DPS to swap one point from Brutality...)

    I did do the math...

    STR - overpower:


    %MeleeCrit = (Rank) * 1/(0.231 + 9306*(STR)^(-2))

    At rank 1:
    RgDieLY.png

    Unlikely that you'll ever get 5% a point. 4% a point would require a STR of ... (calculates) 699.8, which is impractical.

    As to whether or not it's worth it, plug it into the sheet and see.
  • morigosamorigosa Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Ah, okay, I didn't know that spec option had built-in diminishing returns. So... yeah, it's pretty much never going to be worth taking over Brutality. Kindof a pity, but on the other hand, whether it or Brutaility is better is just math - no matter how they tune it, there'll be a single clear right answer.

    Thanks!
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,223 Arc User
    edited August 2014
    Overpower is actually a good option, but only for pure dps. Brutality is extremely point-efficient since it does the same as the other 3-pt Severity PSS options, but for only 2 points, and Juggernaut is.. well, Juggernaut.

    Ya can tell the Str PSS tree is insane when most builds that take it ignore a potential 6-10% flat melee crit :p
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