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The future of MMORPG's- Good, Bad, and Ugly
cybersoldier1981
Posts: 2,501 Arc User
I've only played MMORPG's since about 2004. Oddly enough, my first game was Lineage 2- talk about a slog and grind, man- it's a wonder I've tried others.
Anyway, I've been looking over other games. I can say that CO's the one I've stuck with the longest, because I like comic books and I like roleplaying. That being said, I still keep my eyes on other ones and I like to take a peek at what else happens.
I find myself wondering what the 'next big step is'. There have been some huge innovations that I've seen since Lineage 2- some good, some 'meh'.
So, what do I like?
CO's character customization is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else. I love it, and I wish it were the standard. I don't like being shoehorned into using a specific race, body size, and forced to look like a weird hobo until I hit max level. I find myself tinkering with the character creator, just making random whatevers, and ask 'why isn't this in other games?' Certainly the science fiction genre has been neglected and has room for cyborgs, aliens, mutants, and a wide array of clothing options for anyone; and I'd love to see fantasy gamers' imaginations run wild with something like this and create their own elves, monsters, and things of that nature. So, really? CO's nailed it here, and I wish this was more 'the standard' for MMORPG's so I can 'be the ____ I want to be' anywhere I play.
I was blown away by the valiant attempt at Star Wars: The Old Republic's story aspect. I liked the idea that someone took an MMORPG and made it 'not a bunch of fetch quests' and at least gussied it up with some morality options and dialogue. To me, that made 'playing alone' still have some appeal in an MMORPG- because let's face it, I'm a jerk and sometimes I don't want to talk to anyone else. It makes me wonder if someone else in the future will take this and run with it.
Allods online was an 'okay' WoW-clone that had ships floating about in the Aether (or something, I dunno, cyber mummies were cool but I lost interest). If I recall correctly, an entire crew could fight others in ship-to-ship combat... so where's this idea on a Pirate game? Or even a Sci-fi game where we can have massive space battles in PvP? I think it's a great idea, I do- I just want to see it taken further.
The Secret World did something I didn't expect, which was make an interesting Modern-Era dark themed MMORPG with some decent story. Granted, after about a week of killing zombies and dealing with the annoying controls, I kinda gave up. I do think it could have used more customization in the tailor, but points for taking a step into something most people didn't.
So, what's not to like?
I despised WoW's gear-grind. I hate the idea that in order to 'look cool', I need to invest ridiculous amounts of time into raids, PvP, or flat-out grinding. Are the concept artists so strapped that they say 'let's make everything look like dookie except like, five pieces'? I would think with the ridiculous amout of artistic talent out there, we could come up with a game where you look cool no matter what level you are.
Liscensed properties keep cropping up in video games, and it's no surprise that they've tapped the MMORPG market. The problem I have with these? While they get funding, it's still not something that can take a massive amount of writer/artistic liberties. You're at the whims of the people who own the brand, working within the confines of their lore. When it comes to superhero MMORPG's, it still seems like you're a glorified minion. I'd like to see people steer away from this concept, and let new creative ideas flow.
Gamble boxes seem to be all over the place. I realize that this is a 'money-maker', but when I see games with these? They're usually on their last leg. It's a bad sign, because I'm kind of old-fashioned. If I see something I want, I'll throw cash at it. I don't like the idea of gambling, especially in something that has an appeal to younger players. I don't like the idea of trusting a system to be 'fair' when it comes to winning something at random. I mean... isn't there some better way?
Pay-to-win games draw ire from me. I'm of a mind that nothing you can spend real money on should give you anything other than a cosmetic advantage or a 'fun trinket' of some sort. Sure, I'll pay $5.00 to look like a badass while I clobber cellar rats spiders with a dirty swamp root and love it. But when I see some guy throw $50.00 and just faceroll a game? Get real. That kinda cheapens the entire concept of the game. I've seen this mostly in the Asian gaming market- so, can someone shed light on this for me? Why do these things... exist? It's a terrible idea, and I'm surprised there isn't more action trying to get this sort of gameplay removed from existence.
So, what now?
What's the next push to 'revolutionize' online gaming?
Why, in the course of a decade am I seeing different games, with one or two ridiculously awesome selling points... and no one saying 'let's do like, ALL THOSE AWESOME THINGS!'?
Are we ever going to find a way to break away from the 'WoW mechanics' without turning MMORPG's into arcade-style games?
Are we constantly going to see 'fantasy' MMORPG's, or will someone make something else in the realm of Sci-fi, Steampunk/Weird West, Modern, or another genre?
Personally, I think the MMORPG market is going to drive on for many years. We've seen people that don't even play 'other games' come to MMORPG's, and the market draws a lot of income. Even console non-RPG's are taking some elements from MMORPG's and incorporating them, which only increases the appeal.
I'd love to hear some thoughts on this, have a discussion, and see what people think.
Anyway, I've been looking over other games. I can say that CO's the one I've stuck with the longest, because I like comic books and I like roleplaying. That being said, I still keep my eyes on other ones and I like to take a peek at what else happens.
I find myself wondering what the 'next big step is'. There have been some huge innovations that I've seen since Lineage 2- some good, some 'meh'.
So, what do I like?
CO's character customization is leaps and bounds ahead of everything else. I love it, and I wish it were the standard. I don't like being shoehorned into using a specific race, body size, and forced to look like a weird hobo until I hit max level. I find myself tinkering with the character creator, just making random whatevers, and ask 'why isn't this in other games?' Certainly the science fiction genre has been neglected and has room for cyborgs, aliens, mutants, and a wide array of clothing options for anyone; and I'd love to see fantasy gamers' imaginations run wild with something like this and create their own elves, monsters, and things of that nature. So, really? CO's nailed it here, and I wish this was more 'the standard' for MMORPG's so I can 'be the ____ I want to be' anywhere I play.
I was blown away by the valiant attempt at Star Wars: The Old Republic's story aspect. I liked the idea that someone took an MMORPG and made it 'not a bunch of fetch quests' and at least gussied it up with some morality options and dialogue. To me, that made 'playing alone' still have some appeal in an MMORPG- because let's face it, I'm a jerk and sometimes I don't want to talk to anyone else. It makes me wonder if someone else in the future will take this and run with it.
Allods online was an 'okay' WoW-clone that had ships floating about in the Aether (or something, I dunno, cyber mummies were cool but I lost interest). If I recall correctly, an entire crew could fight others in ship-to-ship combat... so where's this idea on a Pirate game? Or even a Sci-fi game where we can have massive space battles in PvP? I think it's a great idea, I do- I just want to see it taken further.
The Secret World did something I didn't expect, which was make an interesting Modern-Era dark themed MMORPG with some decent story. Granted, after about a week of killing zombies and dealing with the annoying controls, I kinda gave up. I do think it could have used more customization in the tailor, but points for taking a step into something most people didn't.
So, what's not to like?
I despised WoW's gear-grind. I hate the idea that in order to 'look cool', I need to invest ridiculous amounts of time into raids, PvP, or flat-out grinding. Are the concept artists so strapped that they say 'let's make everything look like dookie except like, five pieces'? I would think with the ridiculous amout of artistic talent out there, we could come up with a game where you look cool no matter what level you are.
Liscensed properties keep cropping up in video games, and it's no surprise that they've tapped the MMORPG market. The problem I have with these? While they get funding, it's still not something that can take a massive amount of writer/artistic liberties. You're at the whims of the people who own the brand, working within the confines of their lore. When it comes to superhero MMORPG's, it still seems like you're a glorified minion. I'd like to see people steer away from this concept, and let new creative ideas flow.
Gamble boxes seem to be all over the place. I realize that this is a 'money-maker', but when I see games with these? They're usually on their last leg. It's a bad sign, because I'm kind of old-fashioned. If I see something I want, I'll throw cash at it. I don't like the idea of gambling, especially in something that has an appeal to younger players. I don't like the idea of trusting a system to be 'fair' when it comes to winning something at random. I mean... isn't there some better way?
Pay-to-win games draw ire from me. I'm of a mind that nothing you can spend real money on should give you anything other than a cosmetic advantage or a 'fun trinket' of some sort. Sure, I'll pay $5.00 to look like a badass while I clobber cellar rats spiders with a dirty swamp root and love it. But when I see some guy throw $50.00 and just faceroll a game? Get real. That kinda cheapens the entire concept of the game. I've seen this mostly in the Asian gaming market- so, can someone shed light on this for me? Why do these things... exist? It's a terrible idea, and I'm surprised there isn't more action trying to get this sort of gameplay removed from existence.
So, what now?
What's the next push to 'revolutionize' online gaming?
Why, in the course of a decade am I seeing different games, with one or two ridiculously awesome selling points... and no one saying 'let's do like, ALL THOSE AWESOME THINGS!'?
Are we ever going to find a way to break away from the 'WoW mechanics' without turning MMORPG's into arcade-style games?
Are we constantly going to see 'fantasy' MMORPG's, or will someone make something else in the realm of Sci-fi, Steampunk/Weird West, Modern, or another genre?
Personally, I think the MMORPG market is going to drive on for many years. We've seen people that don't even play 'other games' come to MMORPG's, and the market draws a lot of income. Even console non-RPG's are taking some elements from MMORPG's and incorporating them, which only increases the appeal.
I'd love to hear some thoughts on this, have a discussion, and see what people think.
Post edited by cybersoldier1981 on
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Comments
Not the greatest game every, actually, pretty average one, but well made and with few interesting features, like no autoattack, ship and crew battles, and user dungeons.
Also, pretty well made character customisation. Not even close to CO, but better than in many other fantasy titles (and certainly better than DCUO, even if you can't set character clothes).
But then I've had learned that Allods is a western port of a MMO developed for Russian market by their company, and it is derived from RTS series very popular on their internal market. Now it makes more sense for me.
Also, their fantasy-Spetsnaz spec-ops was hilarious idea.
Would I consider it better than CO? No. Not even close. But it's a great example how average projects can be saved by their high production value.
Have you seen EQN Landmark's latest fashion trailer? It runs the gamut from Sci-fi to Victorian to traditional fantasy. It also features Minecraft-esque freeform open world building.
As far as Sci-fi goes, WildStar is one of the upcoming stars of the genre. It boasts high production values and a seemingly friendly business model. I can't say I'm a fan of the art style but it's very stylized, which tends to age better than games that go for more realism.
But if you keep an eye on the scene, there's a lot of experimentation going on today, whether it's different genres, different gameplay styles, different character progression models. Expect a lot of messiness as studios try to work out the kinks and find out what sticks, but IMO it's for the better in the long run.
I think it's clear that the established themepark MMO model is finally giving way after 10ish years, and with a host of Kickstarter-funded MMOs in the making, we're starting to see real innovation in the genre again.
Haha .. that was also my first MMO. However is was maybe used to grind a lot at these days since i played long years the grandfathers of all grinders : Diablo 1 & 2 :biggrin:
At the moment i only have some slight hopes maybe in EQNext .. ESO has already failed before release after all i read .. and Wildstar seems to be just WoW 2.00 in Space.
CO's character creator is not making it all over because it's a lot more work than what Rift gives you: Wardrobe slots. I do think customization is going to be a bigger aspect in games, but not like what CO has. I think it may even be far more monetized than it is now.
SWTOR's voice acted story was very expensive to make. I'm assuming they blew their entire budget on voice actors because combat was horrid. Allods was praised as being awesome and then cash shop ethics changed that. Cash shop ethic are going to be a more important issue as companies experiment with what they can get away with. Expect (successful) companies that are very careful of the things they sell to be getting more press time.
You don't want to take six (or more) months of raiding to get your gear? Personally not a fan of traditional raiding in general as it seems to revolve around micromanaging. WoW's next expansion is going to set more trends because being like big brother is the cool thing to do.
ESO will be F2P in less than a year. If they're really lucky, it will end up being faster than SWTOR's F2P transition. Dear Bethesda, stop wasting time with ESO and make Fallout Online a reality.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
I think if I had it to do, I'd focus more on making limited body types- simply because anything I had to do, wouldn't be as cartoonish as CO. I would have body types that are flexible, from 'small and skinny' to 'fat' and 'buff as hell' and allow players to tweak anything in between. I've been told that the most complex part of CO's characters is the body proportion system.
Yeah, and honestly? If I had it to do? I wouldn't worry so much about 'voice acting' as I would 'writing and dialogue options'. To me that's important, anything else is a gussied-up cutscene.
If you like Fallout's 'apocalyptic', one day I'll share the lore I've worked on. It started as a superhero thing, went to sci-fi, and got pulled back in to be a 'dystopian near-future cyberpunk in a post-Rapture world living through the events of the End Times'.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
I actually liked that SWTOR had good story, including the voice acting. It was that crappy combat system that makes me never want to touch the game ever. They spent so much time making the story awesome, but couldn't do the same for the fighting.
It's not entirely the setting of Fallout, but the humor and way the stories are told. I do like a sci-fi setting, but I'm a sucker for any good lore. It's why I love Vaati's Dark Souls lore videos (and not having a Truth Mirror makes me sad), the flavor text on Path of Exile's Uniques, why I cheated my way through Kartia's boring combat to advance the story, and why I have a Shadow Run rule book despite never playing the table top.
That's actually something I'd like to see more of: awesome stories and NPCs that are interesting. Pretty much hate all of the Champions and no amount of source book reading can erase what the release day tutorial painted them as.
So, I would totally read any lore you made up that you'd like to share.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
My personal hype-o-meter probably looks like:
Might also give ESO a very passing look if it goes F2P or has a free trial.
How does Tokyo = a win? They've been dangling that carrot for the last couple of years and instead of delivering on it they instead broke it up with recycled content we've already seen and a brand new super grindy RNG based experience. Not to mention they kind of missed the best execution window for end of the world scenario almost two years ago to.
I am curious but I am told by a friend who's already int hat it's basically Minecraft but prettier and I get bored of that game after a while once I've done what I wanted.
It's 3rd edition rules which means it won't be DnD done right.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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2nd edition of course. The one and only true edition that actually got it all right
I will admit that DnD Next rules have my eye because they actually seem to be going back to DnD 2nd edition at least, but it's a long road until it see's the true light of day.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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I honestly don't care about whether the guy on top has a "visionary edge" or not, as long as the game itself has an interesting premise. Freelancer as it should have been is an interesting premise.
How can they have been dangling it for the last couple of years when the game itself isn't even 2 years old? o_O
That's still interesting to me if it's F2P. Wouldn't pay $60 for Minecraft HD though.
I personally think Hasbro/WotC have more to do with screwing over NWN1, NWN2, DDO and NWO than the choice of ruleset. With all the premium mod fiascos (See: NWN1's Wyvern Crown, NWN2's Westgate), blatent ushering of players from one version to the other, excessive "family friendliness", awful art direction - NWN2, DDO and NWO were all FUGLY! Not from a "doesn't use PhysX/Mantle/DX11" perspective but from a stylistic perspective where proportions just look totally wrong, and many other things I don't care to list, I can't say I have a lot of faith in their ability to do a good D&D game. Any D&D game that doesn't make it into their grimy hands is already better off by default.
the general future of mmos, i'm not sure of, perhaps its perception but i'm seeing many more go away and fewer coming up. I'm not saying that i think mmos are gone, but I think wow's statistical outlier in the west and lineage's in the east brought a lot of people in looking for gold, and we have seen something of a culling and rightsizing.
I dont think there will be a drastic departure from the diku mud style that eq and wow used because , much like how many of the popular 2d fighters used very similar mechanics to street fighter 2, past games inform present expectations. there was a time that I expected swg's classless system to usher ina new age of freedom for players away from constricted roles...and then wow happened and Ilost that notion, in general gaming as in mmos, the genre definers will define mechanics expectations until something causes a paradigm shift, and then it will simply be the new expectations. As such I dont expect seismic changes, even everquest next seems to be promising a lot in terms of freedom that, honestly, i have heard before, and the end result never quite lives up to the brainstorming. whether by neophobic customer feedback, conservative investors pulling the leash or just ingrained habits of the developers, it will probably eb nice, but take nothing revolutionary to be a finalized feature.
I dont expect customization like in coh and co to really spread to too many other genres because it simply wouldnt make sense in a lot of them. in secret world, you really have to stretch to justify tails, wings and monster heads unless you were to make them some codified nonhuman friendly type of cryptid. even robots and alien stuff is pushing it as it has gone far more lovecraftian than futuristic science fantasy. broad superheroes is the only place that the mix of tights, militaristic, wuxia, anthro, robots, magic, and the general hodge podge of ideas works. so absent any real new superheroic mmo on the horizion, I think we can assume there wont be a lot of customization crazy games in the foreseeable future.
my biggest concern for the future of mmos is the free to play normalization. On one hand, i get it, a lot of countries have been ardent supporters of the model and by their expectations, its just fine, but my perception was that the core western mmo fanbase grew up with subscriptions being part of the "contract" and the trade off was 2-3 content patches every year that were often meaty. My experience of the free to play world is that has gone away, mmo developers are now running more of a arcade where everything shiny is sectioned off by its own monetization structure, and expectations of future content simply dont exist. you will get a little now and then, usually small cosmetic stuff that we can wring impulse buys from, but the expanding game world and lore, the money just isn't there to make that much content. maybe a expansion, but even then dont hold your breath.
as for specific feelings. coh was the best mmo ever and will likely never happen again, phoenix project i have some hope for, but i understand the reality of budgets and the audacity of trying it with a volunteer dev team. eq next may be fun but the theme will limit it. ncsoft will still suck. I hope Sega finally brings a western client for phantasy star online 2. Elder scrolls should have stayed offline and I dont think that online really leverages the best aspects of the series, a limited "fable 3" style online would have been a lot better than making a whole elder scrolls game that feels,and looks nothing like an elder scrolls game.
So I guess in short Champs is still my fall back social/creative/I'm not doing any art atm game. Either that or single players for nostalgia/entertainment (like Skyrim, GTA, and all the emulator games I have :P)
@Aleatha1011 in CO | Keeper of the Cheesecake since Nov. 2011| Bunni BOT is on PRIMUS! | Come check out my deviantart page!
Loved 2nd ed with the Cantrips.
loved Hairy- 3-12inch eyebrows does wonders for your opponents ability to see.
and colour- we had no trouble working out whose horse was whose. This was important since mine was a biter.
also it had the Irritation spell, where they had to take off their armour to scratch before it would go away.
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I still think the next big blockbuster MMO would be Pok
I want to be able to cobble together spaceships, bases, and so on in a MMO.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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Just going by what the devs said on the TOR forums.
Considering a voice actor's estimated general annual salary is about 50k, I doubt it was as much as that 300k
This is them sitting in a booth (if that, Angie Harmon did her voice lines in Batman Beyond: RotJ) over the phone according the creators. The VA's were likely a drop in the bucket compared to everything else.
I think the devs were just commenting on the time between major update cycles not the actual cost.
Silverspar on PRIMUS
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In the past, there would be around 10 features/systems that you put into your MMO. Not saying that number was set in stone, or that those 10 features were well defined, but in general, developers would put 1 through 10 into their MMO by launch, or launch with 1-6 and add the last 4 over time.
Sometimes, they would really reach with those last 4 or 5. As more and more game launched, the last 4 or 5 really started to stink because the developer lost interest in them or funding for them, especially as the number of MMO failures started to pile up. This hurt, because the long term future of some of the already in-game features relied on the completion of the other 4 or 5, especially when it came to in-game economy.
Then the developers started hitting on and idea and saying it aloud in interviews, "You know, if we didn't bother working on 7-10 from the beginning, we would have had a much better game at launch. Next time, We'll work only on 1-6, or heck, maybe just on 1-4, and simply tell the fans, 'If you want a better game, then make do with less.'"
Which leads us to where we are at now. I see a lot of 1-4 MMOs in the upcoming future, I mean, a LOT. I don't see how the much needed innovation or a return to the old ways are going to take place when each new game will have less and less features common to past MMOs (or even RPGs).