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What is the State of LR these days?

zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
edited March 2014 in Power Discussion
Most post I seem to find are year or older, I was wondering how effective LR is versus other defensive passives.
Post edited by zakkaryuu on

Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Its good; even better w BCR/RR, and even moreso w/ flat dodge-increasing powers and specs. Prob the best passive for overall mitigation if you build around it, but can still be prone to RNG.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Its good; even better w BCR/RR, and even moreso w/ flat dodge-increasing powers and specs. Prob the best passive for overall mitigation if you build around it, but can still be prone to RNG.

    Yep. LR, Evasive Maneuvers, Thundering Kicks--take 3 powers and you're sitting at 90% dodge.

    On the other hand, as flowcyto mentioned, you are subject to the luck gods. If you get Gravitar's triple FC and strike out on the dodges, you're toast.

    But it's still a really good option.
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well this is the build I was thinking of trying. (Theme character, so I am not 100% concern with being 100% min/max) But I don't wanna be gimped.

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Hero
    Level 6: Mighty
    Level 9: Agile
    Level 12: Martial Focus
    Level 15: Tireless
    Level 18: Relentless
    Level 21: Impresario

    Powers:
    Level 1: Righteous Fists (Drunken Master)
    Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Floating Lotus Blossom)
    Level 6: One Hundred Hands (Ghostly Strikes)
    Level 8: Lightning Reflexes (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
    Level 14: Mighty Leap (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 20: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Force Eruption (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Aggressor
    Level 32: Energy Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Masterful Dodge
    Level 38: Roomsweeper (Rank 2)
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    zakkaryuu wrote: »
    Well this is the build I was thinking of trying. (Theme character, so I am not 100% concern with being 100% min/max) But I don't wanna be gimped.

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Dexterity (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Hero
    Level 6: Mighty
    Level 9: Agile
    Level 12: Martial Focus
    Level 15: Tireless
    Level 18: Relentless
    Level 21: Impresario

    Powers:
    Level 1: Righteous Fists (Drunken Master)
    Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Floating Lotus Blossom)
    Level 6: One Hundred Hands (Ghostly Strikes)
    Level 8: Lightning Reflexes (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 11: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
    Level 14: Mighty Leap (Nailed to the Ground)
    Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Rank 2, Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 20: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Force Eruption (Rank 2)
    Level 29: Aggressor
    Level 32: Energy Storm (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Masterful Dodge
    Level 38: Roomsweeper (Rank 2)

    Since it's a theme build, I don't know which powers you absolutely need/want to keep for the character's theme. For instance, Energy Storm is likely one of the very worst powers in the game. But if you want to have it just to have it, you certainly can. The game is easy enough to get away with those choices. A few general things, though:

    1) You should get a toggle. Since you're going mostly with MA stuff and should score plenty of crits, one of the Martial Arts Forms would make sense. On the other hand, between Roomsweeper and FC, you could build Enrage quickly, too.

    2) The choice in #1 might be partially determined by your SS's. Again, I don't know what your theme is, but it doesn't seem that you're getting much out of STR superstat. No CON to get Juggernaut in the spec tree, your best attack is ranged, etc. Unless you just really want a superstrong toon, you would probably be best served with a different primary SS.

    3) Way too many attacks. You've got 5 AoE's! Really don't need that many.

    4) With that SS setup, it's gonna be a real pain trying to fire off Force Cascade. That things is an Energy hog, and you won't have the stats to consistently feed it.

    5) Energy in general might be a problem. You have no unlock and only REC as a SS. This build could see you using your energy builder way more than you'd like.

    6) Thundering Kicks is better ranked to 3. The advantage has limited usefulness, and R3 will give you better damage (that combo can hit surprisingly hard) and, more importantly, a bigger flat dodge % bonus.

    What theme are you going for? Like I said, it's hard to truly gimp yourself in this game, but you could certainly streamline this build quite a bit; I'd be happy to make a possible sample build if I knew what you were going for.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I wouldn't take Lotus Blossom on TK unless you plan on using it constantly. Otherwise, its just better to rank it up so the dodge buff from it is better. If you wanted to use 100Hands as ur primary attack, then you'll probably want a Dragon ability in MA that grants Rush (and to rank up 100Hands further).

    Speaking of which, you seem to lack a toggle. I'd take either FotM (procs on dodge) oir FotT (procs when you crit, better if you aren't getting it), and use it replace Force Cascade, Roomsweeper, Aggressor, Energy Storm (ew), or Force Eruption. I'd also replace one of those w/ MSA so you have an energy unlock.
    Not really sure why you have some of those powers I just mentioned, btw, as many of them don't really fit the build. I assume its for theme, but they make the build look a bit scattered.

    Generally not worthwhile to rank up energy builders- you don't need the Drunken Master adv.

    Also, you'll probably want to have Constitution as one of ur SS's (it can replace Recovery; the Rush-granting move, toggle, and MSA can all give you plenty of energy). You're not really getting much mileage out of a tanking passive w/o that extra health.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    My character is a speedster, but she can also absorb energy and release it.

    I thought Strength increase melee damage, since I have a decent amount of MA abilities.

    However if you think getting Dex,Recovery and Endurance would work as better Superstats?

    If energy storm is bad it can be replaced. Honestly I don't have much experience with majority of these skills the last time I played CO was a sub only game hehe.

    Also what is a Rush ability and what does MSA stand for?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well, I'd def drop Energy Storm, Force Cascade (former just isn't a good power overall, latter is too expensive for this build and won't scale well w/ a melee focus), and prob Force Eruption (its nice to hit when held, and looks/sounds cool, but kinda unecc having more ranged AoE in a melee build).

    On the flipside, full charged Force Eruption w/ the polarity adv gives you a small dmg boost if you stand in the effect it leaves behind- if you wanted to keep it for theme that's one way to make the spell useful.

    To 'absorb' energy you could replace MD or Aggressor w/ Force Sheath, Protection Field, or change ur block to Force Shield. It wouldn't be as effective w/ the dodge setup, but it'd still work out and fit ur theme.

    Strength is fine to have as an MA build- esp for the knock resist it grants. Its primary tree synergizes well w/ SSing Constitution (via Juggernaught). I'd prob just go w/ the usual Str/Dex/Con setup for a melee build here, and take these spec trees, assuming you don;t change the primary SS:

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (3/3)
    Strength: Physical Peak (2/3)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (2/3)
    Strength: Overpower (1/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (2/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (3/3)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
    Mastery: Strength Mastery (1/1)
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Ok I'll mess with the build some and see what I come up with and post more tomorrow, thanks everyone for the help!
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Doubt this is perfect, but something I threw together that might suit the theme:


    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Strength (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Behemoth
    Level 6: Quick Recovery
    Level 9: Physical Conditioning
    Level 12: Relentless
    Level 15: Paramilitary Training
    Level 18: Bodybuilder
    Level 21: Boundless Reserves

    Powers:
    Level 1: Righteous Fists
    Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: One Hundred Hands (Rank 2, Rank 3, Ghostly Strikes)
    Level 8: Spirit Reverberation
    Level 11: Inexorable Tides
    Level 14: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 17: Burning Chi Fist (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
    Level 23: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 26: Enrage (Endorphin Rush)
    Level 29: Ego Surge (Nimble Mind)
    Level 32: Unbreakable
    Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Unleashed Rage (Rank 2, Rank 3)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Mach Speed (Rank 2, Rank 3, Impact)
    Level 35: Teleportation

    Specializations:
    Strength: Swole (3/3)
    Strength: Aggression (2/2)
    Strength: Brutality (2/2)
    Strength: Juggernaut (3/3)
    Warden: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Warden: Ruthless (2/2)
    Warden: Elusive (2/2)
    Warden: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Focused Strikes (2/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (1/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (2/3)
    Mastery: Warden Mastery (1/1)

    I kept all of the dodge/speedster type powers, but added in Unleashed Rage as your new means of demonstrating the "releasing absorbed energy" power. To fuel UR, you need Enraged, which you can build thematically with Inexorable Tides (a team-friendly Knock Up).

    Energy is helped by Spirit Reverberation--when you do dimensional damage (100 Hands & Burning Chi Fist) to Feared targets (which your enemies will be after you use your lunge), you get Energy back, scaling with CON and REC (two of your SS's!). Inexorable Tides will also give you Energy when you use it, since it procs Enraged.

    Gear-wise, with this set-up you'd want to gear for crits on offense, since you no longer have DEX, and Cooldown reduction from your utility gear, so you can use Unleashed Rage as much as possible. Stack CON and STR to fuel the Juggernaut spec (great Defense bonus) and your Enraged toggle, respectively.

    Congrats, you've got ~90% dodge, tons of defense, and a lot of HP's! Again, not a perfect build, but maybe some more things to think about.
  • selpheaselphea Posts: 1,229 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You can hit 100% dodge fairly easily with LR, provided you have deep enough pockets. The key item is Legion's Breastplate of Elusiveness.

    Not sure if you've seen my character, Kitty in action - she's an LR 100% dodge build. I'll try to upload a video in the next 12 hours.
  • shaenthebrainshaenthebrain Posts: 111 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    If you want something like Force Cascade, that would fit better with the rest of the build, try Open Palm Strike from the Unarmed set. It's basically Ryu's Haduken.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    If you want something like Force Cascade, that would fit better with the rest of the build, try Open Palm Strike from the Unarmed set. It's basically Ryu's Haduken.

    Not a bad idea. The focused chi blast adv allows you to use it from a bit of range, and turns it into a cylinder aoe, like FC (though ofc it doesn't have the same long range).
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    You can try this setup.

    Going DEX as a PSS allows you to max the bonus damage form Form of the Tempest.

    The Rush buff (bonus energy and cost discount for melee powers) comes from "Dragon" attacks in combination with stacks of FotT.

    I incorporated the Spirit Reverberation/Dimensional damage combo suggested above: now, in addition to the energy returned when you gain a stack of Focus from FotT, you gain energy with 100Hands, DragonUppercut, OpenPalmStrike.

    Open Palm Strike fits the "project absorbed energy" idea.

    The spec Trees Layer Defense/Offense in addition to dodge to further mitigate damage.


    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name:

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Dexterity (Primary)
    Level 10: Constitution (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Savage
    Level 6: Covert Ops Training
    Level 9: Martial Training
    Level 12: Paramilitary Training
    Level 15: Survival Training
    Level 18: Field Ops Training
    Level 21: Jack of All Trades

    Powers:
    Level 1: Righteous Fists
    Level 1: Thundering Kicks (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 6: Lightning Reflexes (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Form of the Tempest
    Level 11: Void Shift (Emerging Nightmares)
    Level 14: One Hundred Hands (Rank 2, Rank 3, Ghostly Strikes)
    Level 17: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 20: Parry (The Elusive Monk)
    Level 23: Spirit Reverberation
    Level 26: Dragon Uppercut (Rank 2, Chi Flame)
    Level 29: Open Palm Strike (Rank 2, Focused Chi Blast)
    Level 32: Intensity
    Level 35: Resurgence (Rank 2, Evanescent Emergence)
    Level 38: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Superspeed (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Dexterity: Combat Training (1/3)
    Dexterity: Gear Utilization (2/3)
    Dexterity: Brush It Off (2/2)
    Dexterity: Deadly Aim (3/3)
    Dexterity: Expose Weakness (2/2)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Initiative (2/2)
    Vindicator: The Rush of Battle (3/3)
    Mastery: Dexterity Mastery (1/1)
    ______________________________________________________________
    My Characters

  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Wow, a lot of replies thank you everyone. Superalgorn you build actually looks pretty interesting I'll give it a shot if not there is plenty here I think for me to make some decent decisions with out completely gimping myself!
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    superalfgorn - I was wondering how important is elusive monk for maintaining dodge, I feel if I am not tanking then I won't be blocking that much so it can't be that beneficial right?

    So I think if I remove that it frees up 3 more points, and I can then get nailed down on the rift. then 1 points left to just meeh through into accel meta on energy builder.

    Or is elusive monk worth getting?
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    zakkaryuu wrote: »
    superalfgorn - I was wondering how important is elusive monk for maintaining dodge, I feel if I am not tanking then I won't be blocking that much so it can't be that beneficial right?

    So I think if I remove that it frees up 3 more points, and I can then get nailed down on the rift. then 1 points left to just meeh through into accel meta on energy builder.

    Or is elusive monk worth getting?

    Yes, it's still worth getting because the Elusive Monk advantage activates when you attack, not when you block. You incur a slight damage penalty, but it's a good boost to survivability, especially with high DEX.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    EM also gives a minor boost to knock resistance while using melee- which isn't huge, but a nice perk to have.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I haven't level up high enough yet, but must say what there so far working pretty well Gorn.

    However I am having a hard time liking Void Shift. Its to dark to color anything other then shadowy, and it feels more like a teleport then a dash forward.

    So I am contemplating dropping Spirit Revrb and Void Shift.

    Replacing Void Shift with Mighty Leap and Spirit Revb with Force eruption just for visual fun. Honestly once every 3 seconds on the Spirit Revrb doesn't seem that great of a spirit bonus.

    What are peoples feelings on this, is it worth the combo?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Spirit Reverb is the energy unlock for the build; if you want to drop that and void shift then you should replace reverb w/ another EU. MSA would be the easiest fit since it works w/ any lunge or short cd power (then I'd swap Rec SS for Int SS, though ya can still gear for some Rec).
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    Spirit Reverb is the energy unlock for the build; if you want to drop that and void shift then you should replace reverb w/ another EU. MSA would be the easiest fit since it works w/ any lunge or short cd power (then I'd swap Rec SS for Int SS, though ya can still gear for some Rec).

    Are EU's that important to builds at the later levels?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    W/ Rush, potentially no need for an EU. But w/ 100Hands? I wouldn't forgo one.

    Some builds can get away w/o an EU, but almost all would benefit more from having one.
    ________________
    <CO stuff> .: Petco :. // PSA on Power Activation Delay // Ayonachan's Gift Horse (misc stat data)
    - Be safe and have fun, champs - for science!
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    W/ Rush, potentially no need for an EU. But w/ 100Hands? I wouldn't forgo one.

    Some builds can get away w/o an EU, but almost all would benefit more from having one.

    Ah ok,

    well its is all good, I decided to mess with my character costume a bit which helped with the whole dark void look. After playing with all the lunges the dark void feels the fastest. So over all I decide to stick with that build.
  • jonesing4jonesing4 Posts: 794 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Yeah, I like Void Shift on my speedster precisely because it is like a teleport. If you have super speed, then when you're lunging to REALLY get somewhere fast, you should be able to cover a short distance almost instantaneously. It feels weird otherwise... "I can run at the speed of sound, but to get close enough to fight you, I'm going to stick one leg out and slowly slide across space towards you."
  • rtmartma Posts: 1,199 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    If you use a EU keep Rec, basic synergy, with Focus/Spirit Reverb/Rush I believe the energy Return is scaled to Rec. :3 (not 100% since I don't have many using Focus, but if it's like Enrage then yes. x3)
    Want to get to know me a bit better, Click me and take a read of My Dragon Profile Page, it's a bit dated but still relevant.

    I take this quote from a review that I agree with.

    "customisation is so linear; everyone is after the optimal dps:survivability ratio with 0 reliance on other players = autonomous gameplay... Players don't need each other anymore... which in my opinion is a bad thing."
  • zakkaryuuzakkaryuu Posts: 20 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    jonesing4 wrote: »
    Yeah, I like Void Shift on my speedster precisely because it is like a teleport. If you have super speed, then when you're lunging to REALLY get somewhere fast, you should be able to cover a short distance almost instantaneously. It feels weird otherwise... "I can run at the speed of sound, but to get close enough to fight you, I'm going to stick one leg out and slowly slide across space towards you."


    The only other one that felt almost right was ironicly rock slide, because it almost appeared to have this "skidding to a stop and ramming into you feel" but it looks off if you lung and your jumping or falling.
  • superalfgornsuperalfgorn Posts: 557 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Hey I checked back the thread just now :) They kept you covered on the build :D

    Keep in mind that the energy unlock should trigger not only on the lunge but also on 100 hands and all attacks with a dimensional damage component on feared targets.
    ______________________________________________________________
    My Characters

  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    The only builds I would consider forgoing an Energy Unlock are those using Defiance, Unstoppable or Support Role.
  • ashensnowashensnow Posts: 2,048 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    I generally put an energy unlock on my characters. An easy way to determine if it is necessary is to go into the powerhouse danger room to test without it. If you run out of energy, need to use your energy builder, then an EU is a good idea. If your test without an EU shows that you still do not need to use your EB and do not run out of energy, then obviously it is not necessary.

    'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    Also test against the dummies, to take block energy out of the equation. Can't rely on energy from blocking in boss fights, unless you're the tank.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited March 2014
    jonesing4 wrote: »
    Yes, it's still worth getting because the Elusive Monk advantage activates when you attack, not when you block. You incur a slight damage penalty, but it's a good boost to survivability, especially with high DEX.

    Slight disagreement here. With LR it's easy to get Dodge between 60 - 70% and at those levels the DR has already kicked in pretty significantly. Because of this the Dodge increase provided by Elusive Monk is so small that it seems hardly worth taking in order to compensate for the damage penalty.

    Elusive Monk does give an Avoidance bonus that isn't affected in the way that Dodge is by DR, but at higher levels that buff is easily and more effectively substituted with end game gear.

    For some reason the relevant DEX spec still gives Dodge rating instead of flat chance even after the recent changes to Dodge so I wouldn't be dependent on DEX for Dodge as opposed to crits.
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