Fire Detail is Awesome, Make Z-Auras Unlock for all Characters?

rugrothrumbor · February 2014

I have to say my favorite aura is the Fire Details pack so far. It works out a lot of nice details. On the advent of this aura it's unfortunate that these Z-Auras only unlock for one character. Sure you can swap it out to others via hideout bank but that's very inconvenient since you might want two or more to have it.

There are reasons why legacy auras do not unlock for all characters in an account due to the free aura tokens being earned per character made, but with the Z-Store auras it can only be purchased by Zen. So how about just making Z-Store auras unlock for all characters in the account like costumes?

crypticbuxom · February 2014

Tell me about it!

kharma23 · February 2014

skcark · February 2014

Aye.. i'm not buying any more auras while their overall design is flawed.

towershield · February 2014

I agree. Premium cosmetic options on a per-character basis may be how things are done in Neverwinter, but this isn't Neverwinter. Given that aura sets and costume sets each cost the same amount of Zen it makes no sense that they be treated differently when it comes to applying them to our characters.

I've bought all of the other aura packs previously released, but I won't spend any more money on them until this disparity is addressed and rectified. Stupid implementation choice is stupid.

chaoswolf820 · February 2014

skcark wrote: »

Aye.. i'm not buying any more auras while their overall design is flawed.

I haven't - and won't - buy any until this is corrected.

jennymachx · February 2014

I expect that the response will be the same when we protested against grab bags and lockboxes, that being nothing at all.

If sales of the aura packs in their current form meet their expectations then there's no reason as to why they would suddenly make them global unlocks.

ashensnow · February 2014

shieldtower wrote: »

Given that aura sets and costume sets each cost the same amount of Zen it makes no sense that they be treated differently when it comes to applying them to our characters.

Honest question here,

Is it possible that the auras (in their current implementation) are more expensive to develop than costume sets but that Cryptic didn't want to price them higher, so the current treatment is intended to produce greater revenue to offset greater production costs without the actual price tag going higher ?

I have no idea. Don't know enough about development to hazard a guess, just curious.

jennymachx · February 2014

ashensnow wrote: »

Honest question here,

Is it possible that the auras (in their current implementation) are more expensive to develop than costume sets but that Cryptic didn't want to price them higher, so the current treatment is intended to produce greater revenue to offset greater production costs without the actual price tag going higher ?

I have no idea. Don't know enough about development to hazard a guess, just curious.

Seems plausible. After all, auras aren't just some static textures with the occasional glow and transparency effect added like what costumes are. There's actually some detailed animation work going on with them.

skcark · February 2014

jennymachx wrote: »

Seems plausible. After all, auras aren't just some static textures with the occasional glow and transparency effect added like what costumes are. There's actually some detailed animation work going on with them.

Wouldn't they just have a texture zone around the characters body frame then? Sure, i admit to knowing little about how this stuff is made, but can't the same question be applied in the reverse too? I'd figure there was some kind of setting enabled to ensure the aura fits proportionally to the characters body and not just loosely in the general area or 5 metres to the left :S

towershield · February 2014

ashensnow wrote: »

Honest question here,

Is it possible that the auras (in their current implementation) are more expensive to develop than costume sets but that Cryptic didn't want to price them higher, so the current treatment is intended to produce greater revenue to offset greater production costs without the actual price tag going higher ?

I have no idea. Don't know enough about development to hazard a guess, just curious.

Some costume sets come with more individual parts to it than an aura set does. For example, The Shining Knight set has options for: hands, top accessory, leg accessory, shoulders, hips, chest layer, hairstyle, arm accessory, feet, mouth accessory, full helmets, upper body tights, lower body tights and a partial mask. Just about all of those options come in three different materials as well. ~15 parts in total(I may have missed one)

Aura sets come with 5 pieces, sometimes 6. Head, torso, hands, feet, full body. You can't change their texture a la cloth, leather, etc as they don't need or use those options. You can't make one hand/foot/eye glow a different color than the other like you can with costume parts that utilize glow.

This Aura system also isn't built on some sort of new framework either. It just gives us a way to access functions that were already present within the game. Slotting auras via a tab? Almost exactly how we equip gear already. Aura Storage is just a bag that only allows one kind of item to go in it. The "Always on" and "In combat" options? Costume parts w/attached auras(Cursed/Scourge, Edom, etc) and certain powers that provide visuals when activated like Aspect of the Infernal are "always on". Some Slotted Passives used visuals that were only active "in combat" like Fiery Form while other Passives were also "always on" like Aura of Ebon Destruction.

With all of that in mind I don't believe for a second that Aura sets are more expensive to produce than a costume set. Adding a new tab to the character sheet along with it's new buttons and inventory couldn't have been very cost intensive either. The new tab doesn't use any art or UI elements not already present elsewhere.

jennymachx · February 2014

shieldtower wrote: »

Some costume sets come with more individual parts to it than an aura set does. For example, The Shining Knight set has options for: hands, top accessory, leg accessory, shoulders, hips, chest layer, hairstyle, arm accessory, feet, mouth accessory, full helmets, upper body tights, lower body tights and a partial mask. Just about all of those options come in three different materials as well. ~15 parts in total(I may have missed one)

Aura sets come with 5 pieces, sometimes 6. Head, torso, hands, feet, full body. You can't change their texture a la cloth, leather, etc as they don't need or use those options. You can't make one hand/foot/eye glow a different color than the other like you can with costume parts that utilize glow.

I think the important point being avoided here about auras is that they're animated and with impressive detail at that, as compared to costume pieces that are static 3D models with varying material skins (which are already universal across all costume parts).

The costume sets may come with a lot more individual parts to them as compared to auras, but I think that the difference-maker here in favor of auras is that auras have detailed animations. It looks to me like a job involving actual animation would be something more time-consuming than making static 3D models and skins.

I'm not saying this because I'm in favor of them selling aura sets on a per-character basis, it's just an observation that what Ashen is suggesting might be plausible.

towershield · February 2014

jennymachx wrote: »

I think the important point being avoided here about auras is that they're animated and with impressive detail at that, as compared to costume pieces that are static 3D models with varying material skins (which are already universal across all costume parts).

The costume sets may come with a lot more individual parts to them as compared to auras, but I think that the difference-maker here in favor of auras is that auras have detailed animations. It looks to me like a job involving actual animation would be something more time-consuming than making static 3D models and skins.

I'm not saying this because I'm in favor of them selling aura sets on a per-character basis, it's just an observation that what Ashen is suggesting might be plausible.

I don't think the fact that there are animated elements to them makes a bit of difference. The Cursed/Scourge and Edom pieces have both static and animated elements to them and those have been around for years now without added expense. When it comes right down to it, there isn't a lot of technical difference between those pieces and some of the current aura items. Look at any of the head-only aura items and the Crown of Edom piece. Remove the static 3D model of the crown and you've still got the animated effect. It may have been that in the past the devs could only anchor an animated visual like that to a rendered 3D costume model and that's why our first foray into auras were those pieces. The new team more than likely figured out a way to just make the static model portion invisible or just visually not there and attach the animations to these invisible not-parts.

If the process of making an animated visual effect, or using already existing effects, and attaching them to items that anchor the effect to a character model's "bones" like a costume piece would do really is as expensive as people are suggesting it is then Cryptic shot itself in the foot for setting a cheaper precedent years ago. Hell, the Edom aura pieces are still freely available to everyone just for running Aftershock.

ramthananax · February 2014

jennymachx wrote: »

Seems plausible. After all, auras aren't just some static textures with the occasional glow and transparency effect added like what costumes are. There's actually some detailed animation work going on with them.

Not by a long shot. Game effects are what I do for a living, and coincidentally I just made a flaming effect for the character I'm working on. It took me a little over an hour to do a ball of fire that orbits around the character. Extrapolating that out to a full aura set... I'd say, maybe a week to do the whole thing, and that's with testing by QA to make sure it doesn't break anything.

Costume sets, on the other hand, are an order of magnitude more time-consuming.

Of course, it might just be that Cryptic North doesn't have a dedicated FX artist, so who knows?

roundhousekitty · February 2014

It's worth noting that, even if it is more expensive to produce than costume sets are, this is irrelevant to the costumer, as they won't really be aware of it or generally care about it - the only thing that is important for the costumer is the perceived value rather than the actual value.

Doesn't matter how expensive something was to make for the developers if it's underwhelming to the costumer - they won't consider it worth the price.

ashensnow · February 2014

roundhousekitty wrote: »

It's worth noting that, even if it is more expensive to produce than costume sets are, this is irrelevant to the costumer, as they won't really be aware of it or generally care about it - the only thing that is important for the costumer is the perceived value rather than the actual value.

Doesn't matter how expensive something was to make for the developers if it's underwhelming to the costumer - they won't consider it worth the price.

Very very true, but it also works the other way. It doesn't matter if the customer wants something for less if it is financially unfeasible to sell it for that price. This can be easily demonstrated by going to any car dealership and saying, "I've only got five bucks to spend, what have you got for me ?"

crypticbuxom · February 2014

It is laughable to even consider that creating recolorable particle effects is harder than making 3-D models that precisely adjust to specific character proportions and have many layers of color and brightness options to each specific part.

The price and one set per purchase is comparable to that of Super Magnifier and Super Shrinker, which I'm willing to be is what the person in charge based the aura set prices on. They obviously have no clue.

ashensnow wrote: »

Very very true, but it also works the other way. It doesn't matter if the customer wants something for less if it is financially unfeasible to sell it for that price. This can be easily demonstrated by going to any car dealership and saying, "I've only got five bucks to spend, what have you got for me ?"

That argument cannot be compared as the inventory Cryptic sells is infinite. They need to consider the long run.

There are many players dedicated to this game that won't purchase these aura sets as they are now. And players who strive for more character slots see the aura sets as they are now and see it as an ongoing money sink that isn't worth investing in for just one character.

jennymachx · February 2014

crypticbuxom wrote: »

It is laughable to even consider that creating recolorable particle effects is harder than making 3-D models that precisely adjust to specific character proportions and have many layers of color and brightness options to each specific part.

We'll gee, I feel silly now.

crypticbuxom wrote: »

There are many players dedicated to this game that won't purchase these aura sets as they are now. And players who strive for more character slots see the aura sets as they are now and see it as an ongoing money sink that isn't worth investing in for just one character.

We don't have their sales records to make that kind of claim.

The opposite could very well be possible, with the aura sets actually selling well. If that's the case then I wouldn't expect them to stop selling them on a per-character basis.

bluecanary99 · February 2014

Honestly, I'd rather pay a little more for each aura pack and have them unlock for every character. Bump the price up to 700 Zen or something. Same with aura slots and storage.

kallethen · February 2014

I have purchased one Aura set. Yes, I'd rather see them unlock for the whole account rather than just a character and have posted so on these forums in the past.

The only reason I allowed myself that one Aura purchase is because I really only saw myself using it with one character anyhow.

crypticbuxom · February 2014

The only reason aura sets are sold the way they are now is because some higher up feels that this game needs more repeat purchases. They just choose the wrong items.

agentnx5 · February 2014

Ashensnow's response gave me an idea of a possible solution:

What if it was bind on equip? (BoE)

In other words, trade-able. That way even if you don't like the Zen price, but are willing to pay resources to the person who has plenty of Zen, you'll find a trade price point. Everyone wins, right?

towershield · February 2014

Being able to trade them just provides people with another way to get them. It doesn't make the system any less shoddy than it already is.

roughbearmattach · February 2014

crypticbuxom wrote: »

The only reason aura sets are sold the way they are now is because some higher up feels that this game needs more repeat purchases. They just choose the wrong items.

I agree whole-heartedly. The items that people really would repeat buy a lot, like consumables, are much too pricey.

An entire C-Store price restructuring should be taken.

skcark · February 2014

So let's spread awareness of this in the game zone itself? something like "Hey guys.. would you rather buy an aura you probabaly wanna use on all 50 chartacters of yours at once 50 times, or buy it once? because if you help make a stand against this and help make Cryptic become aware you all won't buy maybe they'll fix it so you only have to buy once and not 50 times!"

or.. you could just word it better to remove 'some' of the exaggeration <.<

meedacthunist · February 2014

STO has model where bought ships are redeemable for all characters on the account, provided they're from right faction.

The same should be done in CO with auras.

Auras are colorable shaders and particle effects attached to models.

They aren't as time and resource consuming as making full 3d modelling, then texturing, for costume sets.

crypticbuxom · February 2014

skcark wrote: »

So let's spread awareness of this in the game zone itself? something like "Hey guys.. would you rather buy an aura you probabaly wanna use on all 50 chartacters of yours at once 50 times, or buy it once? because if you help make a stand against this and help make Cryptic become aware you all won't buy maybe they'll fix it so you only have to buy once and not 50 times!"

or.. you could just word it better to remove 'some' of the exaggeration <.<

I do this often when I'm online in Zone. But I can't be online all the time, so more help spreading the info to players in game would be helpful.

meedacthunist wrote: »

STO has model where bought ships are redeemable for all characters on the account, provided they're from right faction.

The same should be done in CO with auras.

Auras are colorable shaders and particle effects attached to models.

They aren't as time and resource consuming as making full 3d modelling, then texturing, for costume sets.

Cryptic has never made any consistent decisions in their entire existence. Aside from making two Super Hero MMOs.

skcark · February 2014

crypticbuxom wrote: »

I do this often when I'm online in Zone. But I can't be online all the time, so more help spreading the info to players in game would be helpful.

Cryptic has never made any consistent decisions in their entire existence. Aside from making two Super Hero MMOs.

Do you have a specific thread you link people to? If so, i'll try to help.

crypticbuxom · February 2014

skcark wrote: »

Do you have a specific thread you link people to? If so, i'll try to help.

Yes there is.

chalupaoffury · February 2014

My beef with this is the one I'm experiencing right now: I unsubbed due to a move and a lack of internet/job change. I'm gonna resub, but not for a week or 2... and my auras are on Chernobyl, who's a freeform.

I'm not retraining my main to an archetype just to get a few auras back, and I bought the premium ones when auras launched. It's pretty vexing.

skcark · February 2014

chalupaoffury wrote: »

My beef with this is the one I'm experiencing right now: I unsubbed due to a move and a lack of internet/job change. I'm gonna resub, but not for a week or 2... and my auras are on Chernobyl, who's a freeform.

I'm not retraining my main to an archetype just to get a few auras back, and I bought the premium ones when auras launched. It's pretty vexing.

Well you see... thats why you pay for the "costume set" price, so even if you lose access to one character for any reason you still have access to your unlocks- Wait that doesn't sound right. Nope, same price, but no pros, only cons.

crypticbuxom · February 2014

chalupaoffury wrote: »

My beef with this is the one I'm experiencing right now: I unsubbed due to a move and a lack of internet/job change. I'm gonna resub, but not for a week or 2... and my auras are on Chernobyl, who's a freeform.

I'm not retraining my main to an archetype just to get a few auras back, and I bought the premium ones when auras launched. It's pretty vexing.

Email customer service about this issue. See what happens. Yes, I'm completely serious. I want to know how they will resolve this issue.

jerax1011 · February 2014

crypticbuxom wrote: »

Email customer service about this issue. See what happens. Yes, I'm completely serious. I want to know how they will resolve this issue.

I'm with you on this one...

bwdares · February 2014

Since Auras are set up more like Vehicles than costumes I am fine with how they are setup. It is not that big of a pain to take a few seconds and jump to a hideout and swap Auras between characters.

Personally I like being able to use multiple Auras at the same time so I am grateful fr how they were implemented, and will continue to buy more auras as they come out.

zahinder · February 2014

I think they should release some account-wide auras and some character-specific auras, and see how their sales go.

Personally, I consider Auras costumes, and making them singular irritates the frak out of me.

Again, because Cryptic released a game with minimal content, and instead of being stand-up guys and rushing to make up for it, they've tried to nickel and dime us, squeezing us for the basic stuff they should have started with in the first place.

meedacthunist · February 2014

It will end with Cryptic ditching auras and then wondering "why auras weren't popular?"

After the missed that the only issue was their character-specific nature. :biggrin:

And then will come the next new shiny.

chalupaoffury · February 2014

crypticbuxom wrote: »

Email customer service about this issue. See what happens. Yes, I'm completely serious. I want to know how they will resolve this issue.

I've tried that before with my vehicles, they basically told me I was SOL. I just resubbed, which I guess was clever on their part. Only, I'm not buying zen for a good long time as a result. I've run out of things to buy (LITERALLY) that aren't vehicles and auras. I refuse to buy another vehicle (I've got like 15 of em) and auras would need to be half that price to be worth it, if they're not account wide. Hell, I can't even buy any costumes, because the only 3 I lack (bird, bone, and victorian) are *fugly*.

You know what this reminds me of? When they removed account wide costume unlocks, and forced us to buy per character slots. And we raised so much hell for so long that they relented. And now, I know people who came in after that with 80-90 account costume slots, because amazingly? We don't want to pay money for cosmetics on just one character.

Guess it's time to stockpile for the next shiny to come out. Freaking bummer, because I was looking forward to this almost as much as I am Avengers 2. This is like finding out that they recast the avengers as Pauly Shore, Eddie Murphy, Gilbert Gottfried, Andy D.ick, and Rosie O'Donnell as Black Widow, for the mental picture.

Just a bad decision all around. I hope someone at pwe is reading this: You designed a game with little endgame content, thus forcing us to level alts. Trying to sell us single character effects, when you're herding us into having 20 max level characters to use them on, is a non-starter. I have not heard anyone who's bought an aura say they didn't regret it, or the fact that they can't trade pieces they don't need. I know I regret mine, and that's the first thing in this game I've ever said that about.

tau41 · February 2014

ashensnow wrote: »

Honest question here,

Is it possible that the auras (in their current implementation) are more expensive to develop than costume sets but that Cryptic didn't want to price them higher, so the current treatment is intended to produce greater revenue to offset greater production costs without the actual price tag going higher ?

I have no idea. Don't know enough about development to hazard a guess, just curious.

From a 3D art standpoint, auras, which are particle effects, are actually just a series of constraints set within the program. If anything, they are MUCH easier and faster to produce than unique models and textures.

ashensnow · February 2014

tau41 wrote: »

From a 3D art standpoint, auras, which are particle effects, are actually just a series of constraints set within the program. If anything, they are MUCH easier and faster to produce than unique models and textures.

Thank You.

chalupaoffury · February 2014

I'd also like to add that most of the auras we have right now were already in game, or are slight modifications of existing in game assets. That's part of what burns me, it kinda feels like being sold something I already own.

crypticbuxom · February 2014

bwdares wrote: »

Since Auras are set up more like Vehicles than costumes I am fine with how they are setup. It is not that big of a pain to take a few seconds and jump to a hideout and swap Auras between characters.

Considering loading screens, dailies and sorting through specific auras on specific characters that have the pieces when others won't work for, these few seconds are actually a couple minutes. And between my nearly 40 regularly played characers, that's a couple minutes times at least 20 of them.

So those "few seconds" are actually 40 minutes out of my day every day to swap specific cosmetic aura pieces.

This is very different than swapping a vehicle, which has actual mechanical use and is very mod heavy. Auras they way they are now is like having to regear a toon every time I log onto one.

kemmicals · February 2014

Personally, I'm more concerned about aura slots being unlocked for all characters. Auras can be juggled around characters no problem with hideouts and with the Arc promotional that's been going on, more people have access to hideout banks. I know that might not be the case forever, but this might make the practice more commonplace as time goes on.

Aura slots, on the other hand, can't be passed around with as much ease as auras. I honestly think we should focus on the slots being account-wide before we think about pushing the idea of auras being account-wide as well. Can't use all those pretty effects if you don't have the slots to put them in, right?

eastgatewidow · February 2014

/Signed.

Its a greedy policy and I will not be rewarding Cryptic with any more Zen until they stop making decisions like this based purely on maximising profit.

Account-wide unlocks for all Zen purchases please.

spinnytop · February 2014

eastgatewidow wrote: »

/Signed.

Its a greedy policy and I will not be rewarding Cryptic with any more Zen until they stop making decisions like this based purely on maximising profit.

Account-wide unlocks for all Zen purchases please.

Sadly, they don't notice when people don't spend money... because there's nothing to notice.

themightyzenith · February 2014

/signed

:eek:

Fire Detail is Awesome, Make Z-Auras Unlock for all Characters?

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