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Give Knock distance a cap.

xcaligaxxcaligax Posts: 1,096 Arc User
edited February 2014 in Power Discussion
It's just ridiculous how much of this an be obtained. Cap it to around 300 feet, which is the size of half a duel sphere from the middle. Anything higher than that is just silly. I mean really, who needs more than 300 feet knock distance in anything.
Post edited by xcaligax on
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Comments

  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I mean really, who needs more than 300 feet knock distance in anything.

    Maybe they should go the opposite route and add goalposts over the dock hangar in the Nem dustup.


    Kidding. Yeah I dun think there's a DR in place for knock distance, but there prob should be that or a cap.
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  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I am vehemently against this.

    Don't get rid of a great concept because of the duel bubble.

    If you don't want ring outs in a duel...use team duel.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I agree with vitalityprime. Capping the distance would be unfair to anyone who enjoys the mechanic.

    Knock already has a debuff system in place to prevent it from being effectively spammed. If you failed to block the first fully-charged knock attack while being close to the bubble's border then it's an error on your part.
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Knock distance needs a hard cap, seriously.

    Something like, 90,000ft should do.
    @HangingDeath

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  • guyhumualguyhumual Posts: 2,350 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Don't change it because of duels, change it because it's ridiculous, annoying, and irritating. I don't like it when my teammates knock a villain across the map and I certainly don't like it when a couple of two bar goon shotgun bounces me around a room, or when a viper power armour knocks me down and then slides me all the way back to spawn. At the very least give us stacks of knock resistance for being knocked.

    Although please keep this mechanic for boss battles. Those should have epic knocks.
  • itsbrou#5396 itsbrou Posts: 1,771 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I disagree with every fiber of my being.
    Brou in Cryptic games.
  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I'm lost on why I would ever want to Knock anything much beyond 100ft anyway.

    Why would I want to knock an enemy out of the range of any follow up attacks?
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well, I wouldn't mind it for PvE- I personally dislike mobs being knocked extreme distances, esp when it increases the chance they get lodged into objects and can't be reached (and they can't type /stuck, or /killme like we can). No opinion on the PvP side of it cause I honestly don't know that area (though the systems could, ofc, be separated).
    jennymachx wrote: »

    Knock already has a debuff system in place

    ..that many mobs seem to have the superpower of overriding on you :/
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  • kallethenkallethen Posts: 1,576 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    But... but... but...

    I wanna see Caliga be like Superman!

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VoJ2Bd41zsw
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  • monaahirumonaahiru Posts: 3,073 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    xcaligax wrote: »
    Cap it to around 300 feet, which is the size of half a duel sphere from the middle.
    Make duel sphere more wide then.
    If there are no bread to eat, let them eat cake!!! o3o
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    flowcyto wrote: »
    ...that many mobs seem to have the superpower of overriding on you :/

    Thankfully many mobs telegraph their knock attacks, giving you ample opportunity to block. The only ones I had any real trouble with are those with shotguns. Even then they're pretty easy to deal with.

    I can understand why people feel that knockback is such an irritating mechanic to deal with, but nonetheless it's a legitimate combat mechanic just as any other in the game. Knock is another form of mitigation plain and simple. Use a lunge to close the gap if you're melee. If you're ranged you should easily compensate since ranged attacks have pretty good effective distances. Knock debuff stacks do quickly build up on enemies when they're hit often enough with knock attacks in quick succession (after the first two attacks usually).

    And yes, I know Behemoths don't have lunges, but that's a design oversight and you'll have to take it up with Cryptic for that.

    Impulse ATs are built around knocks, so I'd rather adapt and deal with knocks in a positive manner rather than straight up tell Impulse players to stop knocking. It's not my place to impose my playstyle choices over theirs.
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Thankfully many mobs telegraph their knock attacks, giving you ample opportunity to block. The only ones I had any real trouble with are those with shotguns. Even then they're pretty easy to deal with.

    I think people have more of an issue with those that don't follow knock rules normally. I know that I've been perturbed a few times myself in Warlord, purely because my 14k HP tank gets tossed around for a good 20 seconds by thugs with shotguns, burning through my entire Unbreakable AD time, and I still haven't been able to launch a single attack since I've been airborne the entire time.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I can understand why people feel that knockback is such an irritating mechanic to deal with, but nonetheless it's a legitimate combat mechanic just as any other in the game. Knock is another form of mitigation plain and simple. Use a lunge to close the gap if you're melee. If you're ranged you should easily compensate since ranged attacks have pretty good effective distances. Knock debuff stacks do quickly build up on enemies when they're hit often enough with knock attacks in quick succession (after the first two attacks usually).

    Three knock attacks, even if effective or not, will give immunity. This can be easily utilized for both aspects, be it tapping knocks for immunity so you can cut loose, or just cutting loose form the start so the enemies don't get a chance to retaliate. A prime example being the Impulse, as stated.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    And yes, I know Behemoths don't have lunges, but that's a design oversight and you'll have to take it up with Cryptic for that.

    ...But they do. <_< Mighty leap.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Impulse ATs are built around knocks, so I'd rather adapt and deal with knocks in a positive manner rather than straight up tell Impulse players to stop knocking. It's not my place to impose my playstyle choices over theirs.

    Aye on this. I can understand the system for it, possibly suggest a few things that, personally, I would prefer changed but, I also get the reasoning for it. Others, might not. Again, the utilization aspect.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I think people have more of an issue with those that don't follow knock rules normally. I know that I've been perturbed a few times myself in Warlord, purely because my 14k HP tank gets tossed around for a good 20 seconds by thugs with shotguns, burning through my entire Unbreakable AD time, and I still haven't been able to launch a single attack since I've been airborne the entire time.

    Please don't take what I'm going to say the wrong way, because I actually mean well.

    Ditch Unbreakable. I'm sorry but it needs a serious overhaul.

    Apart from that I agree that the shotgun thugs (they're called Hoods I think) need to take it down a notch, but as long as I make them priority targets when they appear and take them out as quickly as I can then they won't be any real issue.
    Three knock attacks, even if effective or not, will give immunity. This can be easily utilized for both aspects, be it tapping knocks for immunity so you can cut loose, or just cutting loose form the start so the enemies don't get a chance to retaliate. A prime example being the Impulse, as stated.

    This is what I usually do for my Quarry toon using Force Bolts as her main attack, and only fire off a fully-charged one if I knew it was the killing blow. Remarkably I've yet to get any PUG member berate me for the slightest of knockbacks that I'm doing.
    ...But they do. <_< Mighty leap.

    Really? I seem to remember that it's the melee AT without a lunge. Huh, seems I remembered wrongly.
  • chalupaoffurychalupaoffury Posts: 2,553 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Looks like team Rocket's blasting off again!

    55372705.jpg
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    ii4S5KU4DpkGy.gif

    Now that's knockback distance.
  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    ii4S5KU4DpkGy.gif

    Now that's knockback distance.
    she has toes of steel- Mighty Kick eat ur heart out
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  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    This is what I usually do for my Quarry toon using Force Bolts as her main attack, and only fire off a fully-charged one if I knew it was the killing blow.

    o.o
    jennymachx wrote: »
    my Quarry toon using Force Bolts as her main attack

    o.O
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Force Bolts as her main attack

    O.O
  • crypticbuxomcrypticbuxom Posts: 4,444 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    This is where "practice in restraint" comes to mind. If you don't want to knock them to the moon when you are more than capable of doing it, then hold back.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    oniganon wrote: »
    o.o

    o.O

    O.O

    I meant to say Force Blast not Bolts. Whoops.
  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I meant to say Force Blast not Bolts. Whoops.

    I figured. I was just teasing. :P

    This is where "practice in restraint" comes to mind. If you don't want to knock them to the moon when you are more than capable of doing it, then hold back.

    A tap of Roomsweeper sends enemies over 120ft if you have SS Str.
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I really enjoy knocks, both administering and receiving. It's one of the things that reminds me I'm playing a superhero game.

    I actually got knocked out of the ring in a duel yesterday, and I thought it was pretty spectacular!
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  • finalslapsfinalslaps Posts: 198 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Well in wrestling you can throw people out of the ring to win so sending someone out of the duel sphere could be a way to win and that's how knocks can work. I mean Might does seem like wrestling in a sort of way with the knocks why change that concept?
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Knock is half the equation that makes me not want to play melee characters in Alerts. (Two-Gun Mojo is the other.)
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I don't actually consider a ring out to be a proper win, but it's still pretty fun.

    I think I could've taken him eventually otherwise. ;-) (or maybe not, he was tough!)
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  • agentnx5agentnx5 Posts: 1,999 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I am vehemently against this.

    Don't get rid of a great concept because of the duel bubble.

    If you don't want ring outs in a duel...use team duel.

    I disagree 100% with Caliga and 100% agree with this quote.

    By the way, you CHOSE to have a strong haymaker, Caliga. Don't whine about your own damned choices... sheesh

    vote no!

    oniganon wrote: »
    I'm lost on why I would ever want to Knock anything much beyond 100ft anyway.

    Why would I want to knock an enemy out of the range of any follow up attacks?

    Here's two easy reasons for me (and btw if I don't want to knock, all I have to do is apply 3 stacks of knock resist first):

    • Fun! It's admittedly hilarious to see strong knocks in action. It's also something that kind of makes Champions Online unique. Knocks are a well incorporated part of the gameplay mechanics; removing that for the sake of a radius on a dueling bubble... it foolish. Change the bubble radius, not how knocks work. This topic's suggestion is idiotic, I'm sorry.

    • Fall damage. The futher you fly, the harder you fall. And fall damage cannot be mitigated or resisted in any way. It's the hidden damage bonus in powerful knocks that can help you kill enemies. The hard part is you have to judge how far they are going to fly with estimating how much damage they are going to take. If you mess up, then you have a nearly-dead enemy who you have to go chase down. If you're skilled and powerful enough to do it right, they are dead on impact. Sounds to me like an issue with player skill (lack thereof), not design.

    I think people have more of an issue with those that don't follow knock rules normally. I know that I've been perturbed a few times myself in Warlord, purely because my 14k HP tank gets tossed around for a good 20 seconds by thugs with shotguns, burning through my entire Unbreakable AD time, and I still haven't been able to launch a single attack since I've been airborne the entire time.

    That's because certain NPC powers (and also Force Geyser) are ignoring stacks of knock resistance (including ignoring blocking it would seem).

    You do not nerf and rebalance how knocks work because of a stupid bug, you fix the bug! Duuuuuuuuh!

    Come on people... USE YOUR BRAINS TO THINK! :rolleyes:
  • fudgemonstafudgemonsta Posts: 1,591 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Please don't take what I'm going to say the wrong way, because I actually mean well.

    Ditch Unbreakable. I'm sorry but it needs a serious overhaul.

    D= But I wuv how it works!

    ...Also fun on Night Warrior toons.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Apart from that I agree that the shotgun thugs (they're called Hoods I think) need to take it down a notch, but as long as I make them priority targets when they appear and take them out as quickly as I can then they won't be any real issue.

    Aye they is, and usually are a priority when in a team. It's just, they are a priority because of a break in mechanic rules, not because they are a threat.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    This is what I usually do for my Quarry toon using Force Bolts as her main attack, and only fire off a fully-charged one if I knew it was the killing blow. Remarkably I've yet to get any PUG member berate me for the slightest of knockbacks that I'm doing.

    I only get it rarely, and that's when I give no fudges and FC one into the next district.

    Usually too busy laughing to care, and it's not like they don't usually die on impact anyways. I try to avoid it with Nemi's though...Just because I've played a melee brawler before.
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Really? I seem to remember that it's the melee AT without a lunge. Huh, seems I remembered wrongly.

    Likely thinking of the Unleashed, the one with dual swords. That AT does not have a lunge, rather, Force Snap to bring others into range.
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  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    agentnx5 wrote: »
    Knocks are a well incorporated part of the gameplay mechanics; removing that for the sake of a radius on a dueling bubble... it foolish.

    I don't give a damn about duel bubbles.

    I'd just like to be able to follow up on my own attacks, and be able to use the Might and Force powersets without severely irritating everyone else in group content.

    Stacking knock resist isn't a solution, it's a bandaid. I shouldn't have to spam Inexorable Tides a bunch of times just so I can play Might without wanting to stab someone IRL.

    And who said anything about removing knock? Just reduce it and maybe give it a diminishing return. If knock damage needs to be adjusted upward to compensate, then do it.
  • kentekokenteko Posts: 80 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Hilariously huge knock distance notwithstanding, I think the biggest fixes with knocks are:

    1) Fix knockback resistance so it makes mathematical sense.
    2) Fix the attacks that ignore knock resistance/immunity (*coughVIKORINcough*)
    3) Add alternatives that knock DOWN instead of BACK (Clothesline for Uppercut, Hammer Blow for Haymaker)
    4) Add repels to a fixed Knockback Resistance/Immunity.
    5) FIX KNOCKBACK RESISTS

    Seriously though, nothing says "Great power choice" to me like a Circle of Prime Dominion or Unstoppable where Knocks send you around like ragdolls.
  • cptmillenniumcptmillennium Posts: 447 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    The reason I keep Uppercut in my build is largely to suppress the knock back on Haymaker when I want to. It gives me control and makes me more team-friendly.

    A great alternative to Haymaker without a knock is Burning Chi Fist. There's really no shortage of knockless attacks out there.
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  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    6) Every time a player knocks back a group of enemies while a melee teammate is charging a melee attack against them, stun the offender for 2 seconds, disable their travel power, and turn them pink.
  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    foosnark wrote: »
    6) Every time a player knocks back a group of enemies while a melee teammate is charging a melee attack against them, stun the offender for 2 seconds, disable their travel power, and turn them pink.

    Or you could just lunge while reminding yourself that a melee attack not connecting costs no energy.
  • jerax1011jerax1011 Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Or you could just lunge while reminding yourself that a melee attack not connecting costs no energy.

    Cause lunging then having to wait to lunge again to attack is super fun ><
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jerax1011 wrote: »
    Cause lunging then having to wait to lunge again to attack is super fun ><

    I wouldn't consider a 5s cooldown a long wait.

    It's super easy to get it down to 1 - 2s too.
  • avianosavianos Posts: 5,698 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    I wouldn't consider a 5s cooldown a long wait.

    It's super easy to get it down to 1 - 2s too.

    Yeah... about that... having your main target(s) getting Knock in Alerts by someone ALL the time and I MEAN IT all the time by SOMEONE who keeps SPAMMING fully charge Knocks (either that's Roomsweeper, Frag Grenade, Annihilate or Force Cascade) is not FUn... AT ALL... your Lunge will NOT save you

    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range

    FREAKING HELL! It really piss me off when this happen while I play with Melee characters

    Scattered enemies are harder to hit with AoE attacks as well

    Also you know what is not Fun? when someone is Knocking NEMESIS to the Stratosphere

    One of the reasons I hate Knock back and Only use Knock Up powers

    Also reminding that NPCs' Knocks attacks never got revamp for alerts, and they don't apply Stacks of Knock Resistance on you
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    avianos wrote: »
    Yeah... about that... having your main target(s) getting Knock in Alerts by someone ALL the time and I MEAN IT all the time by SOMEONE who keeps SPAMMING fully charge Knocks (either that's Roomsweeper, Frag Grenade, Annihilate or Force Cascade) is not FUn... AT ALL... not even your Lunge will save you

    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range
    $Target is out of range

    FREAKING HELL!


    Also you know what is not FUn? when someone is Knocking NEMESIS to the Stratosphere

    One of the reasons I hate Knock back and Only use Knock Up powers

    Also reminding that NPCs' Knocks attacks never got revamp for alerts, and they don't apply Stacks of Knock Resistance on you

    How would you like it if someone responds by saying "Stop playing crappy melee.", especially when range can perform just as sufficiently or even better in various areas?

    Not pleasant? You got it. That's what happens when someone tries to impose their playstyle preferences upon others.
  • jerax1011jerax1011 Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    While it is annoying, someone telling me to play another class isn't helping either... I enjoy my blade character and I'm not going to change my preferred play style for a ranged build. And yes I DO have my cool down to minimum (well I did when I was a FF, now I'm just an AT) but I do know that KB can be managed well enough to not irritate every melee player on your team.
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  • flowcytoflowcyto Posts: 12,227 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    To be fair, some people may be used to solo play where they knock enemies as part of their normal routine, and either forget or are not used to team-play yet to know any better.

    I know I've knocked a few Nems around just cause at the time I simply I forgot they were a boss type that *can* be controlled. The game would lead you to believe otherwise in most other content, so its not hard for people to make that sort of mistake on the fly.
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  • vorshothvorshoth Posts: 596 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Eeegh.
    It's a tricky one.

    If we keep things as they are
    On the one hand, it means you can ring out people easily if they have no resistance to knocks in a duel, which is less fun for the recipient.
    On the other hand, it is HELLA COOL TO DO SO if you're the provider.

    If we cap it,
    On the one foot, it makes duels a bit fairer I guess? I don't duel enough to really know.
    On the other foot, it's less fun playing for the provider.

    And now I've run out limbs I can 'suitable for work'ly balance opinions upon.

    I say things should be as they are. But I don't do much PvP because I lose a lot when I do anything multiplayer, XD.
    So yeah.

    But it is heckuva fun on npc enemies.
    Maybe knockback should work differently when hitting a player to a npc then?

    Far enough away that it's still BULK THROW YOU INTO THE WALL HARD

    but not BULK THROW YOU INTO DEEP SPACE (8+1?) SO YOU AXPHYXIATE AND DIE A HORRIBLE PAINFUL DEATH WITH NO WAY TO RETALIATE
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  • oniganononiganon Posts: 155 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    gradii wrote: »
    same reason people play CO. FUN.

    I'm sure annoying the hell out of teammates in Alerts and Nemcons is some people's idea of fun, but it isn't mine.
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Or you could just lunge while reminding yourself that a melee attack not connecting costs no energy.

    No energy, but time and DPS.


    Chances are, I just got done lunging to get where I am. I have five enemies on me. I charge up an attack.... someone scatters everyone away with knockback. I pick ONE target, tap lunge, but it's on cooldown. I start running toward them and lunge when it comes back off cooldown. By the time I get there, my target is already down to 1/4 of its life. I take it out, find another target (behind me now), lunge... and it gets knocked away again.

    As a melee character, sometimes I'd be just as effective standing by where the boss spawns and waiting. In fact I tried that once, but ironically, everyone stopped and waited for me to move on to the next group... and then knocked them away from me when I got there.
  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I suppose if you're fighting Ao'Qephoth and the player who has aggro doesn't block, telling them to block would be "imposing your playstyle on them."
  • vitalityprimevitalityprime Posts: 478 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    People are really just overlooking the actual problems or solutions here.

    I can understand how knocking during missions...and especially Nemesis Smash Alerts...can be annoying.

    However, it's the not the fact that there is no knock distance cap...it's the tactics of the player in question.

    It's not about whether or not my character knocks the enemy back for 600ft or 300ft. It's the fact that I need to refine my tactics and hold back my knocks at certain times...which is not hard to do at all.


    As for the duel bubble complaints...well that's just something I do not understand.

    If being knocked out of the duel bubble bothers you so much that you feel you need to come here and post a suggestion to reduce knock distance...then you should simply Team Duel people.

    We have this option. Anyone can use it by simply inviting someone to their team. This means there is no bubble...no refined duel area...no ring outs.


    This suggestion would do nothing except take some of the fun away from the players who love this mechanic...which of course, I am one of them.
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  • jennymachxjennymachx Posts: 3,000 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    foosnark wrote: »
    No energy, but time and DPS.

    Chances are, I just got done lunging to get where I am. I have five enemies on me. I charge up an attack.... someone scatters everyone away with knockback. I pick ONE target, tap lunge, but it's on cooldown. I start running toward them and lunge when it comes back off cooldown. By the time I get there, my target is already down to 1/4 of its life. I take it out, find another target (behind me now), lunge... and it gets knocked away again.
    foosnark wrote: »
    As a melee character, sometimes I'd be just as effective standing by where the boss spawns and waiting. In fact I tried that once, but ironically, everyone stopped and waited for me to move on to the next group... and then knocked them away from me when I got there.

    Get your lunge's cooldown to 1-2 seconds and the whole issue about the cooldown becomes moot.

    Considering that playing melee is all about closing the gap, reducing your lunge's cooldown should be a priority if you want to be an effective melee player.

    Closing the gap at 60ft within just one second is pretty impressive as it is. During the time when the enemy is airborne from being knocked, you have ample opportunity to run towards it if you need to compensate for it being further away before lunging.

    When you play melee, you automatically accept that you're on a crutch compared to range and you'll always have to close the gap to remain relevant in combat, especially when it comes to DPS. That includes dealing with enemies that are knocked back.
    foosnark wrote: »
    I suppose if you're fighting Ao'Qephoth and the player who has aggro doesn't block, telling them to block would be "imposing your playstyle on them."

    No it isn't. There's nothing playstyle-relevant when it comes to blocking Ao's Lifedrain; You just do it for the obvious reasons, regardless of whatever build you're playing.
  • roughbearmattachroughbearmattach Posts: 4,784 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    I like the massive knocks as is.

    Make sure your toon has a non-knock primary attack, too.
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  • foosnarkfoosnark Posts: 168 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    jennymachx wrote: »
    Get your lunge's cooldown to 1-2 seconds and the whole issue about the cooldown becomes moot.

    Lunge cooldown yes, but the charge time is still wasted, the gathering of enemies for an AOE attack is also wasted, and 90% of the frustration is still there.

    If a bunch of enemies are surrounding a tank, to knock enemies away from him is poor tactics. There is no way around that. It's just a stupid thing to do. It reduces team effectiveness.

    Similarly, if a bunch of enemies are all being AOEd, to knock them out of that zone is poor tactics. Again, it is a stupid thing to do and it reduces team effectiveness.

    A player who does that is a bad player. You can't transfer responsibility for it to the players who now have to scramble to keep up.


    There are two valid reasons for knockback:

    -- to get or keep enemies off you. When soloing, this is almost always relevant. In a group, you have to use some judgement.

    -- because it's fun. When soloing, go for it! But if you think your fun is so important that it's worth taking away other peoples' fun as well as effectiveness, don't group with people.
  • jerax1011jerax1011 Posts: 966 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    foosnark wrote: »
    Lunge cooldown yes, but the charge time is still wasted, the gathering of enemies for an AOE attack is also wasted, and 90% of the frustration is still there.

    If a bunch of enemies are surrounding a tank, to knock enemies away from him is poor tactics. There is no way around that. It's just a stupid thing to do. It reduces team effectiveness.

    Similarly, if a bunch of enemies are all being AOEd, to knock them out of that zone is poor tactics. Again, it is a stupid thing to do and it reduces team effectiveness.

    A player who does that is a bad player. You can't transfer responsibility for it to the players who now have to scramble to keep up.


    There are two valid reasons for knockback:

    -- to get or keep enemies off you. When soloing, this is almost always relevant. In a group, you have to use some judgement.

    -- because it's fun. When soloing, go for it! But if you think your fun is so important that it's worth taking away other peoples' fun as well as effectiveness, don't group with people.

    Exactly, it's not a melee players fault that KB isn't managed well in a team setting, it's the player with KB.
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  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    People are really just overlooking the actual problems or solutions here.

    I can understand how knocking during missions...and especially Nemesis Smash Alerts...can be annoying.

    However, it's the not the fact that there is no knock distance cap...it's the tactics of the player in question.

    It's not about whether or not my character knocks the enemy back for 600ft or 300ft. It's the fact that I need to refine my tactics and hold back my knocks at certain times...which is not hard to do at all.

    Couldn't have put it better myself. If it's a boss that can be knocked thenI save my high knock abilities until I've gotten three stacks of knock resist on it, then I unleash hell.
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