You know, one thing I wish is that the villains moved around a bit more dynamically. They pretty much just stand there. Kind of boring that way. My favorite Alerts are those with Kevin Poe because he jumps all over the place.
No, make them equal to melee tanks. There's no reason ranged tanks should be so much better in the fight than melee tanks. Ranged tanks not only have it a lot easier than melee tanks, they also make it a lot easier for the entire group. That really should be changed.
If having to dodge stuff makes the ranged tank in question "useless" then they probably shouldn't be the one tanking.
You know, one thing I wish is that the villains moved around a bit more dynamically. They pretty much just stand there. Kind of boring that way. My favorite Alerts are those with Kevin Poe because he jumps all over the place.
I've been wishing for this for years... but CO villains have very stubbornly decided to remain lazy.
. . . Why Do You Want Such A Terrible Thing? Why do you want to make Gravitar EVEN harder and more Annoying than she currently is?
PS. I play as both Range and Melee against her, and being Melee is Suffering (eats 3 Undodged Force Cascades in the row, 3000 Damage each)
Post edited by kaiserin#0958 on
POWERFRAME REVAMPS, NEW POWERS and BUG FIXES > Recycled Content and Events and even costumes at this point Introvert guy who use CO to make his characters playable and get experimental with Viable FF Theme builds! Running out of Unique FF builds due to the lack of updates and synergiesPlaying since 1 February 2011 98+ Characters (7 ATs, 91 FFs) ALTitis for Life!
So I finally decided to check out the Fire and Ice rampage with a group of friends on PTS last night. Compared to a year ago the alert is in a MUCH better place. As in, it's actually doable now. It's still not perfect by any means, but so long as players are paying attention and there's a tank + healer somewhere in the group makeup it's not all that hard.
We did three runs total, I did not get any tokens for justice gear but I did get the firefighter jacket once along with the diminishing questionite reward each time. My hope is that the tokens for the justice gear are no less than a 25% drop rate. I am undecided on the issue of whether the tokens should be tradeable, though my initial instinct is to not allow trading of tokens or justice gear. I feel justice gear should be sort of a prestige thing so if it was possible to acquire justice gear without doing the rampages it would cheapen the accomplishment.
In those three runs we had one full wipe and I'm honestly not sure if it was a fire cage detonation or living fire/ice or what. I feel all the instagib powers from this encounter need to be better announced. Frosticus could yell "Freeze <playername>!" when he encases someone in an ice spire. Blaze could make some quip along the lines of "<playername>, leave and you're all going up in smoke!" I also think both the living fire and living ice spawns would benefit from some sort of alert, like the police chief sending you a radio message (ideally voiced and text on screen) about a localized abnormally high or low temperature spike in our area. Basically give players who have no idea what they're getting into *some* idea of what to do instead of allowing them to make the same mistakes over and over not knowing what's going on.
Overall impressions are positive, especially considering what the Fire and Ice alert used to be like. Well done so far, but please polish it up a bit before pushing live.
EDIT: This was also one of the few cutscenes I actually enjoyed. The tiny bit of banter between the villains is great. I still wish for skippable cutscenes but at least this one is palatable.
Maybe some mechanic could be added to make the villains more nimble and the fight more challenging. E.g. periodically making some dynamic move that breaks a target lock that then has to be reacquired.
. . . Why Do You Want Such A Terrible Thing? Why do you want to make Gravitar EVEN harder and more Annoying than she currently is?
PS. I play as both Range and Melee against her, and being Melee is Suffering (eats 3 Undodged Force Cascades in the row, 3000 Damage each)
Gravitar isn't that hard at all currently, especially seeing as she is suppose to be the final "raid" content in the game. There is a reason it's a 10 man thing.
The ranged build took (1172.629+969.504+22873.848+13598.098+2375.28+7941.789+6319.978)=55251.126 damage, non of which is easily blockable (unless you block preemptively), and was knocked 4 times.
The melee build took (190.384+2071.752+12063.139+9990.27+9036.248+4651.756+11785.062)=49788.611 damage, of which 2071,752 was while blocking, and that could be evaded if you so choose, and was knocked 1 time.
Are you sure you didnt evade any Force Detonations? Three seems a little low for 200 seconds, when I play my melee tank (and of course not bother to evade them) I generally take far more then that. When blocking the sphere attacks the damage is reduced to single or double digit numbers on a (my) tank build. This is not a very good example for showing the danger of spheres, cascades are doing far more damage in both parses, and that is also my experience for the fight.
When using a melee dps, placement is very tricky when trying to not be hit by cascades aimed at other players, even more so of the person tanking thinks it is a good idea to run around gravitar in circles. It helps a lot if you stay at the maximum range of your melee attacks, and are using attacks that don't root you.
I am seeing two problems here. First that there is really nothing to respond to when using a ranged build. And secondly that it is even possible to tank gravitar with a (very very high) dps build, but that is more a problem with builds then with the gravitar alert.
A question for the people who did the fire and ice alert lately, does the fireprison still spawn on top of the bosses, making them practically impossible to attack for melee builds for a time?
Where has fire and ice gone? Have you taken it down for now while you work on it or is it bugged in some way? We were just about to do a test using no healer and but tanks healing themselves instead.
My initial idea was to just bring equality to range and melee in Gravitar, but it wouldn't be a terrible idea to give Gravitar a high damage frequently used attack that only targets the person who has her aggro.
That sounds fun and much better than earlier proposals.
I don't mind the mind worms. I just switch to an AoE until they're all gone. I figure if I do that it makes things easier for everyone else. For me it's no different than debuffing the villain or buffing allies. Just standing in place blazing a way is what's boring.
Team wipes are a part of fire and ice, which are worse.
I agree, but that still doesn't explain why Raksasha came up.
I'll restate it because I think it's a really good idea: Instead of an insta-wipe, make it a powerful team-wide debuff that does something terribly crippling, but that they can still overcome if they react quickly.
Something like this napkin idea...
Half the team gets a fire debuff, half the team gets an ice debuff, which correspondingly flashy graphics so everyone knows who has what. The fire debuff does a very high amount of damage (a squishy with minimum hit points and defense would die in about 3-4 seconds), and the ice debuff does less damage but has a rapidly stacking snare effect that leaves them immobilized in 3-4 seconds. Standing in melee range of someone with the oppositte debuff neutralizes the effect; it doesn't get rid of it, just neutralizes it, so basically you have to stand next to someone with the opposite debuff for the duration of it. If people with the same debuff stand next to each other, it will rupture causing a large amount of damage to them and everyone within melee range.
Or you know, anything that would create a panic situation rather than a game over screen.
Raksasha came up because I mentioned the idea of the villains moving around more, maybe having that tied into heroes losing their target locks, and then having to reacquire them. Gradii linked this to her dislike of how the worms cause a targeting dislocation in the Raksasha alert.
For me the need to target ice columns in this Rampage is akin to needing to either retarget Raksasha around all those worms, or just getting rid of the worms quickly, in the sense that both are diversions from going after the villain.
BTW did they say when they would put the next iteration up for testing?
I agree, but that still doesn't explain why Raksasha came up.
I'll restate it because I think it's a really good idea: Instead of an insta-wipe, make it a powerful team-wide debuff that does something terribly crippling, but that they can still overcome if they react quickly.
Something like this napkin idea...
Half the team gets a fire debuff, half the team gets an ice debuff, which correspondingly flashy graphics so everyone knows who has what. The fire debuff does a very high amount of damage (a squishy with minimum hit points and defense would die in about 3-4 seconds), and the ice debuff does less damage but has a rapidly stacking snare effect that leaves them immobilized in 3-4 seconds. Standing in melee range of someone with the oppositte debuff neutralizes the effect; it doesn't get rid of it, just neutralizes it, so basically you have to stand next to someone with the opposite debuff for the duration of it. If people with the same debuff stand next to each other, it will rupture causing a large amount of damage to them and everyone within melee range.
Or you know, anything that would create a panic situation rather than a game over screen.
one of the only times I see a GOOD suggestion from you. I like it.
Fact is that foxi hasn't actually played fire and ice being a silver player.
The idea is a good one, I could see it as really screwing over the tank(s) and healer where everyone has to stand next to each other so it could be almost as devastating that a wipe. Basically I found the wipes kept me on the edge of my seat when playing fire and ice, I found it made the rampage even more fun and I'm telling you... Currently I actually think it was some of the most fun content I have done in CO PvE wise for a while.
Comments
Make? Did you ever even do the gravitar alert?
The only thing that is proposed to be added, is some more stuff for ranged builds to respond to. Cascades already work that way.
No, make them equal to melee tanks. There's no reason ranged tanks should be so much better in the fight than melee tanks. Ranged tanks not only have it a lot easier than melee tanks, they also make it a lot easier for the entire group. That really should be changed.
If having to dodge stuff makes the ranged tank in question "useless" then they probably shouldn't be the one tanking.
I've been wishing for this for years... but CO villains have very stubbornly decided to remain lazy.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
. . . Why Do You Want Such A Terrible Thing? Why do you want to make Gravitar EVEN harder and more Annoying than she currently is?
PS. I play as both Range and Melee against her, and being Melee is Suffering (eats 3 Undodged Force Cascades in the row, 3000 Damage each)
We did three runs total, I did not get any tokens for justice gear but I did get the firefighter jacket once along with the diminishing questionite reward each time. My hope is that the tokens for the justice gear are no less than a 25% drop rate. I am undecided on the issue of whether the tokens should be tradeable, though my initial instinct is to not allow trading of tokens or justice gear. I feel justice gear should be sort of a prestige thing so if it was possible to acquire justice gear without doing the rampages it would cheapen the accomplishment.
In those three runs we had one full wipe and I'm honestly not sure if it was a fire cage detonation or living fire/ice or what. I feel all the instagib powers from this encounter need to be better announced. Frosticus could yell "Freeze <playername>!" when he encases someone in an ice spire. Blaze could make some quip along the lines of "<playername>, leave and you're all going up in smoke!" I also think both the living fire and living ice spawns would benefit from some sort of alert, like the police chief sending you a radio message (ideally voiced and text on screen) about a localized abnormally high or low temperature spike in our area. Basically give players who have no idea what they're getting into *some* idea of what to do instead of allowing them to make the same mistakes over and over not knowing what's going on.
Overall impressions are positive, especially considering what the Fire and Ice alert used to be like. Well done so far, but please polish it up a bit before pushing live.
EDIT: This was also one of the few cutscenes I actually enjoyed. The tiny bit of banter between the villains is great. I still wish for skippable cutscenes but at least this one is palatable.
Gravitar isn't that hard at all currently, especially seeing as she is suppose to be the final "raid" content in the game. There is a reason it's a 10 man thing.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
The ranged build took (1172.629+969.504+22873.848+13598.098+2375.28+7941.789+6319.978)=55251.126 damage, non of which is easily blockable (unless you block preemptively), and was knocked 4 times.
The melee build took (190.384+2071.752+12063.139+9990.27+9036.248+4651.756+11785.062)=49788.611 damage, of which 2071,752 was while blocking, and that could be evaded if you so choose, and was knocked 1 time.
Are you sure you didnt evade any Force Detonations? Three seems a little low for 200 seconds, when I play my melee tank (and of course not bother to evade them) I generally take far more then that. When blocking the sphere attacks the damage is reduced to single or double digit numbers on a (my) tank build. This is not a very good example for showing the danger of spheres, cascades are doing far more damage in both parses, and that is also my experience for the fight.
When using a melee dps, placement is very tricky when trying to not be hit by cascades aimed at other players, even more so of the person tanking thinks it is a good idea to run around gravitar in circles. It helps a lot if you stay at the maximum range of your melee attacks, and are using attacks that don't root you.
I am seeing two problems here. First that there is really nothing to respond to when using a ranged build. And secondly that it is even possible to tank gravitar with a (very very high) dps build, but that is more a problem with builds then with the gravitar alert.
A question for the people who did the fire and ice alert lately, does the fireprison still spawn on top of the bosses, making them practically impossible to attack for melee builds for a time?
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
That sounds fun and much better than earlier proposals.
editwtf quote function?!
Is Rakshasa or his mechanic a part of Fire and Ice?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I agree, but that still doesn't explain why Raksasha came up.
I'll restate it because I think it's a really good idea: Instead of an insta-wipe, make it a powerful team-wide debuff that does something terribly crippling, but that they can still overcome if they react quickly.
Something like this napkin idea...
Half the team gets a fire debuff, half the team gets an ice debuff, which correspondingly flashy graphics so everyone knows who has what. The fire debuff does a very high amount of damage (a squishy with minimum hit points and defense would die in about 3-4 seconds), and the ice debuff does less damage but has a rapidly stacking snare effect that leaves them immobilized in 3-4 seconds. Standing in melee range of someone with the oppositte debuff neutralizes the effect; it doesn't get rid of it, just neutralizes it, so basically you have to stand next to someone with the opposite debuff for the duration of it. If people with the same debuff stand next to each other, it will rupture causing a large amount of damage to them and everyone within melee range.
Or you know, anything that would create a panic situation rather than a game over screen.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
For me the need to target ice columns in this Rampage is akin to needing to either retarget Raksasha around all those worms, or just getting rid of the worms quickly, in the sense that both are diversions from going after the villain.
BTW did they say when they would put the next iteration up for testing?
I like the way you think.
'Caine, miss you bud. Fly high.
Fact is that foxi hasn't actually played fire and ice being a silver player.
The idea is a good one, I could see it as really screwing over the tank(s) and healer where everyone has to stand next to each other so it could be almost as devastating that a wipe. Basically I found the wipes kept me on the edge of my seat when playing fire and ice, I found it made the rampage even more fun and I'm telling you... Currently I actually think it was some of the most fun content I have done in CO PvE wise for a while.
I can see where he is coming from however.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)