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Some suggestions to make melee in line with ranged
rugrothrumbor
Posts: 534 Arc User
So not making melee do more damage. Alright then how about these changes.
1. So charge up melee attacks need to be timed right at the right distance. How about making it so you can charge up melee attacks at say 30-40 feet distance from the target? The attack will still not connect if you're not within melee range but you can charge up from a distance, you just have to make sure you're within hitting distance when you let go.
2. Allow every melee attack to have a lunge attached. Charge up attacks will do the auto-lunge at the end of the charge or when you let go of the button. Maintained attacks and combos would send you right to the target on the first press. The original lunge powers will become slotted lunges that can be slotted in to become the auto-lunge that every melee attack would use. When you haven't slotted in a lunge your melee attacks would use a default auto-lunge (this sort of slotted lunge thing is similar to block and block powers). For melee tanks this would actually become very vital since they would be able to do a Crippling Challenge every time they use a melee attack. Lunges can still be used on your power tray however and you're not limited to just one lunge power (for people that want to use more than one lunge), they just won't be attached to your melee attacks.
3. Brawler (melee damage) role gets a 25% increase in crowd control resistance like Protector (tank) role to handle AoE knocks and holds. Brawler also gains a 20% damage resistance (or absorption) against AoE and your movement speed is increased up to 20% while in Brawler role.
4. Make melee powers usable even when you're not targeting enemies.
I really would like an auto-lunge attached to all melee attacks (number 2). I think that would make melee attacks better to land. Though I'm thinking number 1 sounds more reasonable since you know playing melee means you have to chase things around, I just can't think of any other way to make melee better at getting the hits in. Sure you can get acrobatics/super speed to help with it but there's no reason to sacrifice your theme to play melee not to mention you lose your travel powers in PvP even if you had acrobatics/super speed.
1. So charge up melee attacks need to be timed right at the right distance. How about making it so you can charge up melee attacks at say 30-40 feet distance from the target? The attack will still not connect if you're not within melee range but you can charge up from a distance, you just have to make sure you're within hitting distance when you let go.
2. Allow every melee attack to have a lunge attached. Charge up attacks will do the auto-lunge at the end of the charge or when you let go of the button. Maintained attacks and combos would send you right to the target on the first press. The original lunge powers will become slotted lunges that can be slotted in to become the auto-lunge that every melee attack would use. When you haven't slotted in a lunge your melee attacks would use a default auto-lunge (this sort of slotted lunge thing is similar to block and block powers). For melee tanks this would actually become very vital since they would be able to do a Crippling Challenge every time they use a melee attack. Lunges can still be used on your power tray however and you're not limited to just one lunge power (for people that want to use more than one lunge), they just won't be attached to your melee attacks.
3. Brawler (melee damage) role gets a 25% increase in crowd control resistance like Protector (tank) role to handle AoE knocks and holds. Brawler also gains a 20% damage resistance (or absorption) against AoE and your movement speed is increased up to 20% while in Brawler role.
4. Make melee powers usable even when you're not targeting enemies.
I really would like an auto-lunge attached to all melee attacks (number 2). I think that would make melee attacks better to land. Though I'm thinking number 1 sounds more reasonable since you know playing melee means you have to chase things around, I just can't think of any other way to make melee better at getting the hits in. Sure you can get acrobatics/super speed to help with it but there's no reason to sacrifice your theme to play melee not to mention you lose your travel powers in PvP even if you had acrobatics/super speed.
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Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
Post edited by rugrothrumbor on
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I'd recommend something simpler (and less likely for Cryptic to mess it up): improve lunges.
There are lots of ways lunges could be improved, or even linked in with other melee attacks to form clever combos.
Some simple improvements that could be done that'd really help would be things like making ALL lunges come with NttG (nailed to the ground) included as part of the lunge's base functionality.
Another idea would be to make lunges have their hold effects (stuns, roots, etc.) last a bit longer, or be rank-independent (meaning if it says the stun last for 2 seconds, it lasts for 2 seconds no matter if it's a player or supervillan, a level 3 or level 43; only Legendaries and Cosmics should be immune to this effect). This one change alone would make melee competitive with any ranged build overnight and reinforce the existing lunge mechanic.
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I don't think a lunge makes that much sense on many melee attacks. It would look awkward and might even be annoying if you char moves with every strike.
Uhhh no. I do not think that would be a good idea. You probably have already some knock resist because you will likely have str, and knocks are probably the most annoying thing. And it is not like an NPC will try to kite you anyway.
Check your options. There is something that melee can ignore your target, meaning if your target is out of range but something else is in range you will hit that.
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I would approve of the #1 suggestion in the OP, but I'd put making melee attacks not root you as a much higher priority for things-to-change. The rest... eh, I probably wouldn't complain if those went in, but I don't see that there's any great need for them. The second one in particular would probably greatly annoy anyone who PvPs.
2. No...that's a bit much. Actually... yeah, that's just too much.
3. Again, too much!
4. Would be neat, but likely engine limitations. Reference the Power Armor "Plasma Beam" both for how this could potentially be implemented... and also for how it could go horribly horribly wrong n_n
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
With a powerset named "Heavy Weapons", what did you expected?
I expected a powerset that wasn't frustrating to play with in groups. Why, what would you expect?
1) Remove Self-Roots or Replace with Self-Snare
2) Start charging attacks from 100ft away
3) Make ALL melee attacks AoEs (Attacks that "should be single target" should still be AoE, even if it's a 5 degree cone that will almost never hit anything more than 1 enemy, I don't care about any arguments against this, this is how I honestly believe it should be and my opinion won't ever change)
5) Extend the distance on Lunges
4) Add a "mini-lunge" to melee attacks that triggers if the enemy is barely out of melee range. Lunges will still be useful and in no way deminished if attacking an enemy that has moved just barely out of melee range causes you to "close the gap" with a short little lunge or a few quick automated steps. If the target was still in melee range when the attack went off the "lunge" will not be triggered. If they move well out of range, the lunge will not trigger and the attack will miss as usual. This will help deal with flying enemies as well.
5) Fix "Melee attacks can ignore selected target" to work properly... I am so tired of attempting to attack with melee when my target has run off but theres a mob surrounding me that I could hit and instead of attacking I'm prompted with the error message about my target being out of range, or the occasional "you need a target to do that" when I have a target, and I even have auto target enabled.
It does have some pretty great attacks that don't root you though... like Arc of Ruin and Skull Crusher, my personal fav HW moves
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
There is a reason some of the melee attacks self root, some are more powerful than others and making the ones that self root no longer do this would sort of be unfair on those that already don't self root.
This sort of makes sense, I don't know about you though but when I'm on a melee I'll start charging when I first go by them then come back in with it fully charged. Butchers blades is an interesting advantage as it allows sword cyclone to do this (be charged from where ever) the only problem is that it's damage is not SUPER amazing and the fact it is AoE makes it less viable for me in PvP. Also it costs loads of energy. ;D
Hmm I wouldn't agree just because of the negetive effect it would have on me as someone who likes to PvP. There is a spec in warden that almost everyone has that reduces aoe damage by a flat 20% which is just facepalm... I use all single target attacks on my melee for a reason.
Hmm a 100ft lunge would be kinda nice although I think the problem with lunges is that some are totally bugged and have a stupidly long delay. Take decimate or smoke bomb lunge as an example. They would probably be even buggier if not, un usable if they were 100ft.
Neverwinter did this with one of the GWF attacks which was a clone of rising knee in CO. (probably copy and pasted codes lol) But yeah although this may be cool it also sounds kind of annoying unless it'd be possible to only have it as an advantage. On some ability's it would work but on others I can hit flying enemy's easy enough by jumping up using brute strike and tapping demolish before I hit the floor again to jump up for the next stun lock. Hey, this isn't PvP I know but in PvE being against flying enemy's is very situational.
Huh? So you mean you start charging an attack but your target runs off and you don't bother to run alongside him then you feel like switching to another mob instead but it tells you that you can't do that? mhm fair enough.
PS: Foxi, skullcrusher is one of my favourite moves in the game too bad the max I got it to is 9k AND it's an aoe so not great for PvP.
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And of course Brawler role having a movement increase tied to the role would be fantastic.
I really like my idea on lunges being tied into all melee attacks and you basically slot in a lunge that you want to use (while still being able to have more than one lunge only one will be slotted, other one would be used like a power).
And of course another idea would be melee attacks increase in range but nothing close to the shortest ranged powers. And another idea came up in which you could be able to use melee attacks WITHOUT having to target enemies. So all melee attacks becoming like Sword Cyclone but you can still target an enemy and direct the melee attack to the target.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
In my opinion, all lunges should be more insant and should take priority over all other powers. Not only do they simply not do their jobs in some cases, but they are easily interrupted and do not even keep you next to your target long enough most of the time.
I'd really like to see some sort of easier way to chase people down, because as of right now, kiting is one of the easiest things to do in PvP. Pressing your S key will suffice in most cases.
Uh huh, sure. Wanna duel again and show off how "hard" it is to catch a kiter?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Don't you have somewhere between 10 and 20 Strength?
Most people have well over 200 Strength, and it winds up looking like
If they balance the game around the assumption that everyone has 200 strength, what happens to everybody who doesn't?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
There's the problem. Ranged builds shouldn't have that much strength and still be able to do what they currently can. There should be some form of sacrfice for it, moreso for ranged builds.
Because in a way lunges are in many ways mandatory for melee types.
Back when ranged didn't have a toggle, ego did not boost ranged damage, no specializations, ranged was still the preferred attack type.
Grappling/Wrestling Power Set Suggestion 2012-2013
How a Wrestling Power Set Can Work
What's less ok is all the rubber banding because of how Champs calculates position of players in the game environment. I can't count the number of times in a duel where I use my lunge and land outside of melee range from my opponent, which pretty well blows the stun on lunge for nothing. And outside of duels? I'll lunge to an enemy... oh wait. I rubber banded all the way back to where I was. AND NOW I HAVE AGGRO.
Fixing position calculations and resolving some ongoing server lag issues would resolve just about all melee issues. 'Cuz the damage and the CC side of it are FINE.
Its more than just the rubber banding issue...
I've had many times where Lunge will tell me my target is out of range despite being well within range and forcing me to run up to within 15 feet before it will even let me use it... at 15 foot range a lunge is pretty much worthless... and then if that wasn't bad enough it will sometimes rubberband me back to where I first tried to lunge from and resume the whole "target is out of range" issue...
Also, Auto-target will frequently ignore lunge attempts as well so if my target dies right before I hit lunge it won't target the next nearest target and I can end up sitting there with no target mashing lunge for a few moments.. then have an inability to tab target for up to 5 seconds...
a nice addition to lunges would be a "if no target is selected lunge _feet forward and deal _damage in a small AoE"