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Champions Online: Still there, still unloved
devtracker
Posts: 66 Arc User
Interesting comments about Champs in the new edition of "A Mild-Mannered Reporter":
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/08/a-mild-mannered-reporter-2013-in-review-for-heroes/
Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
Champions Online: Still there, still unloved
Let me tell you a story about a game. When it was first released, it earned some early praise from people about very novel approaches, but it also had some serious and glaring issues. The net result was that players abandoned the game in droves, prompting a severe cutback on development staff and new content slowing to a crawl before vanishing entirely.
Am I talking about Warhammer Online or Champions Online? The answer is it doesn't really matter. The point remains the same; CO is undergoing the slow bleed that WAR spent about four years moving through. All that keeps it from suffering the same fate is the fact that Cryptic owns the IP and thus has no licensing agreements to worry about.
Some efforts were made to keep CO moving forward this year, but none of them seemed to be terribly vigorous. There were rumbles of events being the big new content, but those petered out fairly quickly. Instead, players were left with... pretty much nothing. I suppose the seasonal events went live; that's something.
Certainly I don't want the game to die. But as it stands, it's not so much dying as doing nothing and just sitting around and idling. I'd like to see something actually done with the game.
http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/01/08/a-mild-mannered-reporter-2013-in-review-for-heroes/
Agree? Disagree? Thoughts?
Post edited by devtracker on
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one thing i hope is we dont spend more effort on short, unfulfilling and limited"events" like 2013. encouraged by fatal error being made perma, that was a start, now to keep up with that.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
I guess we can only wait'n see.
@dr490nbr347hi / Playing since January 25, '11
Display normal Internet behavior. Come and make fun (yes, make fun) of my PRIMUS page.
"My five year old hasn't graduated college yet... I'll start planning his funeral."
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
[SIGPIC]http://imgur.com/9gptU4e[/SIGPIC]
If something is going to happen, it must be this year. There will be no fifth year of hope.
Otherwise the game will keep bleeding, no matter how much polishing and bug fixing gets done.
Wicks and Things: NW-DI4FMZRR4 : The Fenwick merchant family has lost a caravan! Can you help?
Beggar's Hollow: NW-DR6YG4J2L : Someone, or something, has stolen away many of the Fenwicks' children! Can you find out what happened to them?
Into the Fen Wood: NW-DL89DRG7B : Enter the heart of the forest. Can you discover the secret of the Fen Wood?
You don't add people, let alone a whole team's worth, to a game that you're going to throw in the dumpster when no one's looking.
[at]riviania Member since Aug 2009
and hes most likely right about this games fate too, and i have said that already too, but i have been wrong before.
Since after the auras we basically are in uncharted waters since we don't have ANY idea what they plan to do
The Nemesis system needs fixing and here's ideas:
A business that makes nothing but money is a poor business. Henry Ford
NEGATIVITY THREAD!
Yo this game sucks.
This game is bad.
This game is dying.
This game is dead.
This game is gonna shut down next week.
The devs don't care.
There are no devs.
We have devs but they're lazy.
The devs suck.
People who play this game are masochists.
People who play this game have stockholme syndrome.
Check out this spread sheet I made of the player population and how low it is.
On Alert ruined the game.
Alerts ruined the game.
Elitists ruined the game.
Casuals ruined the game.
Everything is bad.
Mascara and black nail polish.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
But now? Compared to what it once was, this game is the equivalent of a dusty little town in the South-West with the same little people going about their business day after day with no changes in their routine, with tumbleweeds rolling through the streets and the occasional outsider strolling in... You get the idea.
Since Alert, the story hasn't budged an inch: Where's Mechanon? Where's the whole plot about Istvatha V'han and the Gadroon? Where's that Roin'esh invasion we were promised oh so long ago?
We've gotten NO new zones since Vibora Bay. (As in actual public questing zones, not counting "new" maps and whatnot featured in Alerts)
No new Power Sets
No new Adventure Packs.
We did get Fatal Error lately as a comic series, but that still seemed small and rather underwhelming.
All we get nowadays are either some miniscule costume packs, rare additions/changes to existing power sets and the occasional alert revamps/additions.
Sure, we got Vehicles and Auras, but a good portion of those are gated behind Zen, Lockboxes and Drifter Salvage.
The "negativity" in this thread is very well placed. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy the game. I enjoy it enough that I bought a lifetime subscription post-Alert when I actually had the money for it so I could play the game at its fullest.
The last thing I want to see it do is die like CoH did. But the Development Team really needs to kick it into high gear if they want this game to avoid that sad little fate. And right now? The game honestly feels like it's on life support. And it's NOT a good feeling.
Just my two cents.
How long did we get vehicles thrown at us repeatedly? In all honesty it's hard for me to believe that the time and effort it took trying to make vehicles work was worth it to anyone. That's time that could have been used to add ACTUAL content instead of a novelty item that is pretty much useless.
Wake up and stop the unnecessary bs. CO is dying, no need to ridicule facts just because you want to feel special. Every single of your posts is either bad sarcasm or similiar bs. Cut it out, ffs.
Hey I'm on your side. We need to keep making post after post after post about how this game is gonna be shut down soon, because that's the only way we're gonna help this game get back on track and get more players.
Right?
RIGHT?
NOW GET OUT THERE AND MAKE MORE POSTS ABOUT HOW THIS GAME SUCKS SOLDIER.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Except Spinnytop, - said five year-old (in MMO years) is actually around thirty years of age ....and still at home .... skeletal and chained up in a basement.... and chucked the odd chicken-leg to barely stay alive.
This game should be in or approaching it's prime. That's scary - that's how urgent the situation now is.
.............
Eliot is completely justified in what I feel is an accurate appraisal.
I am extremely disappointed in feeling five years-on - that Champions-Online has ended up the absolute epitome of wasted potential of the promising Hero Games IP.
This game could of led the pack in the superhero MMO market, and it's such a shame Cryptic-Studios has lost it's passion for the superhero genre and let this game end up in this state.
The most customisable superhero MMO with it's renowned character-creator can only trade off that accolade for so long without sounding and ringing hollow after so many years of mismanagement.
I feel the writing has been on the wall for a fair while now, and its pretty obvious to see the end result of this short-sighted and short-term development plan since both the adventure pack and comic series initiatives evaporated without explanation and that has been almost entirely quarterly-returns focused on selling fluff and that has had absolutely zero long-term strategy to evolve the game.
Such a shame.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
Such a shame, what we see in this game
Potential lost, a waste. Yet there's a change
And now we're finally left with head flames
Tell me to relax, I just stare
Only Cryptic knows if things will change
But will they want to share? It's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me with rage, it's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me in haste
(Such a shame)
This eagerness for change
It's a shame
Player's are losing faith, that's a shame
In North's trembling hands our fate
Tells me to react, 'cause I care
Maybe it's too late to ask for change
A feeling that we share, it's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me with rage, it's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me in haste
(Such a shame)
This eagerness for change
Such a shame
Tell me to relax, I just stare
Only Cryptic knows
If things will change
But will they want to share?
It's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me with rage, it's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me in haste, it's a shame
(Such a shame)
Don't write off this game, it's a shame
(Such a shame)
Number me in haste
(Such a shame)
This eagerness for change
Such a shame
Vanish in the air you'll never find me
Would also like to note that STO, a younger game mind you, has had FAR more developer care and attention given to it than Champions has had in the past year or two. I don't think I even need to mention the full blown expansion that was released.
Age is no excuse for the rate of content delivery to be reduced to a trickle. CoH is a prime example of that. Eight years of development, and they had over two issues worth of future content PLANNED before it was shut down.
It should be obvious to anybody reading this that Champions Online is long overdue for a good, swift kick in the arse. The last publicly posted Cryptic To-Do List has checkmarks beside most of its items. The big wrap-up event and the lair review are still outstanding, but I wouldn't blame Cryptic for putting those aside because the current wave of bug fixes had higher priority (or better yet, was a prerequisite for the lair review).
So here we are, with a new year, a (mostly) clean slate, and the community and press are eagerly awaiting...
...what?
Psssst, TT, LordGar. That's your cue.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
fixed that for you.:biggrin:
we could sell a lot of keys, if that was the m ain prize in a lockbox
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
The analogy references the fact that the article is talking about the RECENT increase in activity, not the entire life of CO.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I want to believe the recently founded Cryptic-North have long-term strategic goals for the game - akin to Paragon Studio's long term development where (as you said) they were regularly planning two issues ahead, but that really is depandant on what PWE afford them with regards to budget and dev-resources.
Tumerboy is/was on record as saying that Cryptic (had at his time of working on the project) did not plan beyond the year's end for content release, and that was back when the content release schedule was a lot more active.
In my opinion (and perhaps its idealistic for a F2P MMO) - but imagination and creativity should be leading the long-term strategic planning with the lore-book in-hand as a content-guide. At the moment the only guide that I can see is short-term strategy that regularly looks at what can be stripped out, re-badged and re-sold as packs.
Wheres the archer-set?, - why was the magic costume pack so hamstrung? (minus cat familiar and emanation-points for staff weapons),, - where are SuperGroup bases? ...(hell, even the dev-acknowledged stop-gap measure of HideOuts died with Tumerboy's departure to Star Trek Online).
Nemesis system - abandoned. No plans.
Crafting system, supposedly an improvement - actually allows for less variety on crafting with masses of items no longer available.
The player-vehicles system originally conceived as an extension and customisable extension to your character - now delivered with less variety and an obvious excuse to grind/buy for vehicle-slots.
I could go on and on but I'll spare you the rant from this obviously bitter old-veteran and just say I believe the spirit of what we were promised and were experiencing in part through closed and open beta and up-to and including Revelations has been corrupted in the last couple of years post-F2P relaunch through a toxic-mix of strategic neglect, complacency in 100% owning the IP and not having to answer to someone like CBS (re: STO), chronic under-investment and a short-sighted focus and development based on chasing the quarterly returns targets.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
you missed a few:biggrin:
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Pretty much the only relevant thing said in this entire thread.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
If this is going to be a parallel of Emmert & Friends last property they mismanaged, you have to give the new guys time to work. Once they finish cleaning up the mess, maybe then we can start hectoring them about New Stuff and Big Changes.
But you guys can't seriously yell at the new guy who's barely started for stuff the last CEO did.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
I agree with this entirely.
There is a TON of untapped potential for this game, in terms of both lore, content and gameplay, it ain't even funny.
How long can "new Guy" last as a title. Apparently Cryptic North has actually been working on CO for almost a year now.
Now, i love what North has been doing. Their costume pieces and character designs have been amazing.-The Dragon in High Pan is a high mark too me and the Harbinger.
BUT! For how long can people go on any more? We had the Half year of nothing, then the last half year of a handful of mini events. This community wants bigger things. We have been asking for new zones and Super group bases since year one with no hope on the horizon. That is the reason the game is bleeding out players.
Its not that we don't get anything, its we are not getting the big things that will attract players back.
Players have no reason to really sub anymore as well. I think adjusting a bit to what DCUO does could help that a lot.-by that I mean the free download packs for subscribers.
Now I feel I need to say, I do not blame Cryptic North for any of the short comings of this game. Though i would like to hear from them more from time to time. I blame Cryptic and PWE. They are the reason this game is failing. Plain and simple.
Having unlimited access to freeforms, character slots, stipend, bank and bag slots is not a reason?
Then, by all means, maybe they all shoud drop subs and see for how long they can last with ATs?
:biggrin:
Freeform: Sold in C-Store
Character slots: Sold in C-Store
Bank Slots: Sold in C-store
Bag Slots: Sold in game and in C-Store
The stipend is the only thing you cannot buy. You can get all of those without spending a dime, if you wish, by grinding Q. It will take time, but you can.
**edit** I will retract and state "They don't have a great reason to sub."
+Power coloring. But I hardly think that's worth subbing for.
@dr490nbr347hi / Playing since January 25, '11
Display normal Internet behavior. Come and make fun (yes, make fun) of my PRIMUS page.
Overall, given pricing for FF slots and that bag slots are per character, subscription is still a better option if one decides to keep it. Not to mention power hue choices, free slots with every 40 and free retcons.
No, really. It's a reason good enough. Unless someone has a year or so, for grinding all things.
Pretty much the only case, when subscription is not worth it, is when someone is fine with only one or two FFs.
Agreed. I for one, would NEVER go silver. Though as my account is Lifetime, I don't have that issue. But your average player doesn't have a big enough draw to go gold.
New Zones such as: Shamballah, Well of the Worlds, Arcadia; City of gold, Agharti, Atlantis (to showcase and introduce a water-powerset to the game), Sunday Pond, Haynesville: Kansas, Hudson City (or gritty Gotham-like city), Ravenswood Academy (acts as as alternate levelling path and story), Thaar: Lost Island of the Bird-People, Moon-Zone (with resident Selenites) - An orbiting Unity Space-Station (which acts as both a hub for the Moon-Zone crisis and a jump-off point for Champions-Beyond Cosmic endgame content).
To highlight how poorly the Champions IP has been utilised by Cryptic - the game world five years on is like TOR five years on with no Hoth, Korriban, Corescant and Tatooine in-game. In-short Cryptic: Just.not.good.enough.
Nemesis system 2.0
The missing power-sets: cosmic energy, water, plant, beast mastery, shape-shifting, shield, sonic etc....
Thats less than twenty minutes thought and forum searching. If the intolerable creative stasis of the game is not down to a terminal lack of enthusiasm and Cryptic are genuinely struggling with planning for a more creative, comprehensive and immersive universe for the game that draws directly from the Champions-lore..... you're welcome. I guess.
Dropping my knitting to buff you whilst hitting - Proudly protecting Millennium City's little ones since 2009.
@Mothers_Love
I wonder how many of the current dev's have actually played the PnP game. Also, I wonder if the reason we haven't seen anything major is due to the code being a nightmare. I know it's been said that lairs are held together by digital spit and bailing wire, so it's not a stretch to pass that along the other systems.
If the original framework wasn't built for expansions, or that wasn't in the design, then the problem is MUCH bigger than just imagination or use of lore. If they would have to build the game from the ground up again to implement something like Shamballah (just speculating here), I doubt we will ever see that happen.
As much as I love the game, and would love to see it be all it can be, I would almost bet that the problems we have are due to either poor coding practices or hacking systems in.
Vanish in the air you'll never find me
Um... I think anyone who wants to create more than just 1 FF character has a great reason to sub.
Say you want to create 10FF characters.. not unreasonable given that there are hordes of players with that or more. You really gonna push out 500 dollars for that? Or you can farm for a little under 2 years to get those FF slots through questionite.
Or you can sub, get those 10 FF characters and more today, in addition to all the other stuff you get with a subscription.
Yeah, you can get this stuff in other ways... but the most cost effective way to get them today is still subscribing.
Yes, some of us are patient and cheap enough to do the free method... but I think there are plenty of people who aren't, and those people are glad that the option to sub exists.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
this is how I feel, this game had soo much potential then city of ever did. however co was squandered. if only jack and pwi showed as much loyalty for this game as they did for sto and now, we would not be talking about this.
I truly believe when roper was in charge and the other 1 that took over for him had this game going in the right direction. gone are the days of any kind of meaningful dev for this game.
With how much we hear "We don't have the tech for that." Or all the posts about the horrible coding...you COULD say CO IS in fact, living up to its potential. Since the bar could not be set too high if the game's code was written as bad as it seems.
Yeah but that requires being reasonable, mature, and understanding... you nuts?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
2 pts for that one
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Now where does the Zen come from for the Q exchange?
err... some people buy it... and subs
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I'm just gonna throw in the obligatory request for a spreadsheet that shows what percentage comes from sub stipends, what percentage comes from subbed non-stipend purchases, and what percentage comes from non-subbed non-stipend purchases, with all sources documented.
#HOMEWORK
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I highly doubt that is actually possible. I would bet Zen just shows up as Zen. Not Stipend Zen vs purchased Zen. If they could separate it, I think it would be interesting to see the numbers.
PWE's account records would have a transaction log of how your current Zen balance was acquired (CO monthly stipend was processed on this date, bought $10 and transferred it all to CO on that date, etc.), but they can't really determine how it's spent on a C-Store transaction. If you have 1000 Z (500 purchased, 500 stipend), and buy a 500 Z item, did you just spend all of your stipend, all of your "cash", or do they prorate it into 250 Z each? To them, it's probably a difference without distinction anyway. They can look at long-term cash flow to see who's transferring real-money Zen to CO vs. who's relying on their stipend.
They're not there in the beginning, but when your story ends / Gonna last with you longer than your friends
i liked the game so much that i felt i had to contribute and bought that specialist archtype in the cash shop...
but i kept using the same character (the soldier lvl40)
by the time ive posted a few replys in the forum if the developers
COULD EXPAND THE GAME (MAKE MORE MAP CITIES / QUESTS / RAISE LVL CAP TO 90)
BUT EVERY TIME I OR ANY OTHER PERSON TALKED ABOUT THIS a butch of users just starts jumping on...!!!
saying that the game is fine like it is /
Ho my god here comes this subject again /
CO is not about content its about character costumization /
if you dont like CO go play something else !!! /
@!!'ZX @!@???? bla bla bla its bad we dont want...
com'on... iam surprised CO is still available to play !!!
you cant show interest in an online game this days... where you keep making new characters and raise them to lvl 40 making the same quests !!!
Questionite farmers "pull" money into the game with their supply.
The magic of economics :O
My super cool CC build and how to use it.