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So... can we remove the limits on Therakiel's Temple?
skcark
Posts: 715 Arc User
Just saying.. I don't feel like wasting hours daily saying "Looking for 2 more members for Therakiel Temple" because the people i just did it with the other day were more than willing to re-do again if there wasn't that stupid 24 hour limit on it.
And for what? The limit never made any sense to begin with, the drops were already rare enough as it was, let alone 5 people being in there made it even less likely you could get it. And now On Alert lost those costume pieces, except for non-gear costume unlocks.
So can we have the cap removed please?
It's the least you can do after causing all Lore to get wiped, and then failed to fix it all that time ago.
And for what? The limit never made any sense to begin with, the drops were already rare enough as it was, let alone 5 people being in there made it even less likely you could get it. And now On Alert lost those costume pieces, except for non-gear costume unlocks.
So can we have the cap removed please?
It's the least you can do after causing all Lore to get wiped, and then failed to fix it all that time ago.
Post edited by skcark on
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Since that seems to be the current trend.
....
And playing by myself since Aug 2009
Godtier: Lifetime Subscriber
Haha.. yeah, add a time limit too, like 20 mins, same as clarence... and then next year, they buff the HP of all the bosses without increasing the timer because they based the idea on how fast takofanes got swamped without taking into fact that he had great drops all the time.
Suggestion. n_n
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The only enrage timer in TT I'm aware of is my enrage timer during the mirror puzzles if there's someone in the group who doesn't understand them and/or doesn't have the attention span to stand still long enough to chain a beam...
I was kind of under the impression they had removed the enrage timers with On Alert, since I've never seen anything in there hit an enrage timer since then.
10 minute Therakiel fight? I'd like to see the video of the "5 Inventor ATs run TT" run that that happened on u_u
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
It's simple really... 5 bosses... and a team of up to 5 people... each time a set boss is fought with, a specific person leaves the team/map, rejoining after the boss has been dead for a minute (i vaguely remember a possibility of it counting the boss death to someone who just joins later, or maybe cause i hit vladic a lot, and then left) By the time they reach vladic, they can get that crystal thing too, and then they all fight therakial, so it's better for 2 people to leave during valerian cause she's the easiest. as long as no one gets credit for all 5 bosses killed, they can keep replaying..
It's may sound like it takes a lot of effort but all it boils down to is 1-2 people leave during a certain boss fight (the same boss each time) and rejoin a minute after they die.
As a random side note, i even have a screenshot of me standing in a pentagram of 5 different people using mirrors to form it. so, 6 total <.<
I keep seeing mention of 'enrage timer' what the hell is that?
After fighting them certain amount of time the bosses in TT get a lot bigger and stronger. I only ever saw that happen to Val and Cimetiere myself, it would be fun to see how/if the other bosses change too.
I only know of one person, who doesn't even play CO anymore, who managed to get 2 of the Therakiel PRs. I'm not saying you're wrong but I also know people who went into the hundreds of full runs farming and didn't get that bloody thing. I know I don't have one...
...but almost a year ago when the magical patch that accidently put the Therakiel PR back into the loot table(which had accidently never been in the tables but was supposed to be) that same patch randomly wiped all progress on the perk "Chapter and Verse" while, at the same time, putting the two missing lore pieces needed to complete it back in the game. I've put in tickets to CS(ok, feel free to laugh. I know. I know) to get this put back but they don't even give canned replies to me anymore most of the time. They just delete tickets now. Considering this is likely the hardest PvE Perk in the game and it took me well over(I used to use those useless Juryrig Upgrade Drops to count) over 100 live runs on my main alone(not counting other toons when I was bored) to get to the point where I was only missing the two bugged lore....I want my credit back.
Ok, now onto the subject. Yes, the lockout timer has been buggy for years now. It applies to some people. It doesn't apply to some people. Some people can complete the actual Apocalypse Aversion mission and immediately take it again. Some people are locked out 24 hours. Some people are locked out days. Some people are locked out on for weeks. The same scenarios hold true for the shared copy of this mission.
Honestly, without even considering whether it's a useful mechanic or not....it's a broken mechanic and removing it would just be easier than trying to fix it, especially since it's been stated how horrid a job Cryptic did with the original Lair Codes. Considering that, I'd just rather see it removed completely so Cryptic North can focus their awesome on things more in need. Simple solution, everybody wins.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
So there's no on screen timer? they just randomly grow huge? makes sense then, i only ever saw baron cimitiere grow huge, i always thought it was a mechanic for him only, as did everyone else.
Can you please tell me what this... PR thing is? And yeah... i was soooo pissed, wasted a damn year trying to collect all the lore, and then cryptic **** it up and never fixed it. all they ever replied with was basically "we're cryptic, we're all newbs that break more than we ever fix, you're lucky it didn't break sooner"
to this day i still have a totally ****ed up lore page, missing a lot, and getting lore from other beings mixed up with the destroyer lore tab etc.
Join Date: Aug 2009 | Title: Devslayer
The devs have actually talked about doing that. It was last mentioned a while ago, though... might be one of those things they just spring on us out of the blue though.
Hey remember when Cryptic N first came into the light of day and that one Dev started that thread where he answered questions and we were all like "Yeah sweet! They're talking to us and telling us what they're doing!"... and then they went silent for several months and started springing stuff on us we had no idea they were doing (like the change character button)?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yeah... Cryptic, please make it even more tedious and unfun..
LF4M Monster Island tutorial!! Becuase something that could be done solo now requires 5 to start...
Though really.. i understand TT usually needs 4-5 people... but some with the right build can do it with 3. Even sometimes with 2 with a special trick for the light shining...
I'm not a fan of turning something that's already dead because of the stupid alerts emphasis, and killing it further by making it even more arduous in nature..
Need specific roles for the lair? too bad.. queue up and you get what you get, someone ragequits because it's taking too long, because you're all squishy DPS's, no healers, no tanks. and half way in, they leave, making it unplayable, because now you can't invite a new person.
Sure, you can argue people can form their team first, but then what? I've done lots of PUG groups, and a common fact is, someone always has to leave and then we PM all our friends to find a replacement.
You need 5 people to que for alerts? I always just que by myself and it works just fine.
I think you misinterpreted what you qouted
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Uh, actually, you do need five people to queue for an alert before you can get into it. They don't need to be in your group, they don't need to be in your zone... but if people aren't queueing for it, you can't get in. The perfect example here is the Lemuria Crisis - you can queue on your own all you want, but you're not going to get in unless you can convince other people to queue as well.
well the Lemuria Crisis isn't an alert... so it's not really the perfect example of needing 5 people to que for an alert. I always just que solo... sure, four other people need to do the same, but they always do.
I guess what I really meant to ask was... why are you adding the "Make it require 5 people" part to Chuckwolf's idea? Cause um... that wasn't part of what he suggested. Far as I can tell, he was suggesting to make ques for all those instanced missions so it automatically teams you up with other players doing it... nothing in there about making them require 5 people to be qued. Specifically he's talking about lairs, which are generally more difficult for leveling players if they have to do them solo... and it's also a pain in the butt for those leveling players to have to type "LFG Telios Tower" for hours in zone chat, only to never get a group...
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Exactly how many alerts have you ever done completely solo? without anyone ever joining in the same alert as you? You might be able to queue up, but the alert only begins with it gets the 5 people it needs. you can queue by yourself, 2 other people can be in a team and also queue, and 2 more people also queueing up without a team, you'll get put in one together..
I didn't misinterpret anything i "qouted"
It's because it's not an alert that makes it, and monster island good examples. Prior to their removal and revamp to use the alert queueing system, it used to function similar to the hero games style.. you still had to queue, but whether or not anyone else joined, it would begin after 1 minute. So it was possible to play those Crisis zones solo. Now with the alert system, it's become "Get 5 or don't play"
No one ever said anything about make it require 5, it started off as me objecting to making TT use the alerts queue system because it WILL make sure it requires 5.
And even then, it can't solve the issue during the instance, if someone leaves.. you won't be able to call someone new into it. So if you can't win without that person who left... you have to restart with a new team.
Alert-ifying this just brings more issues than it solves.
You did though, you'll see why below...
You're wrong about this. Monster Island Crisis does not require 5 players to be qued... I know. You know how I know? The majority of the times that I have done the MI Crisis, I did it solo. I que'd....about a minute or two later it started... and then I did it by myself without a single other player in sight, and no objectives being completed if I wasn't the one doing them.
It's not "Get 5 or don't play" at all.
Since MI Crisis doesn't require 5, then they could just use the same que system with TT.
Who says you won't be able to call someone new into it? They could just enable late joiners, similar to how the Hero Games ques function.
Or maybe it doesn't.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
You realise, you're using what i said AFTER you accused me of misinterpreting what i said as "evidence" ? I was expecting you to point out what i said in the post you said i had 'misinterpreted my qoute', not for you to pick something apart that was said after.
By the way, i still haven't, why? because i know what i said, how i meant it. i don't need to interpret myself, and it's certainly not a habit of mine to quote myself in the same post
And people can't join later because it's how alerts are designed.. just as how crpytic could not simply 'turn off' the team up button during the mega destroid event the year when teaming up was causing level resets, because it's hard-wired for open misisons/events in MC.
Did you adopt the belief that the MI Crisis was "Get 5 or dont go" only after I said you misinterpreted the post?
And I did actually... I pointed out that you thought he said to make the ques require 5 players... which he never said. That's the part you misinterpreted, and I pointed that out before you ever mentioned the MI Crisis.
I never said you misinterpreted yourself... how does that even make sense? I said you misinterpreted Chuckwolf's post, and this isn't the first time that I'm mentioning that fact either.
What do open missions have to do with ques?
There have been a lot of incidents of "we can't do that" turning into "hey look we did it". A few of them happened quite recently in fact, so as it turns out you might be mistaken about what you're sure they can and cannot do. As it turns out, when that "hard wiring" is actually just lines of code, it's not so hard sometimes.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I did the Monster Island Crisis like, last month or in November, and I did it solo. Just like Foxi said, you queue, wait a couple minutes, then you're popped in solo.
Monster Island crisis, for whatever reason, will actually start even with only one person in queue; I've done it. Lemurian crisis will not. Which is why I specified Lemurian crisis as an example of an alert-style event where making it alert-style made it less accessible.
Making Therakiel's Temple start with fewer than five would just result in it being uncompletable thanks to the required mirror usage. Making Therakiel's Temple only start with five suffers from the flaws Skcark has pointed out.
Making other lairs function like alerts would be even worse. You'd end up with either:
1: Require five before the alert starts: locks out people who can (or want to try to) solo the place; requires duos and other not-five-people groups to go find more when they shouldn't have to.
2: Alert starts with even one: mercilessly slaughters anyone who can't solo the place, since the odds of other people being in the queue at the same time is pretty low.
Whether anyone misinterpreted anyone else is, frankly, irrelevant; the question at hand is "Would making lairs function like alerts improve their accessibility?", and the answer is no. Regardless of what you set as your alert start conditions, someone ends up with a raw deal compared to the current non-alert system.
Did they change Lemurian Crisis? It was looooooooooooooong ago when I did it, but I had to do it solo (after which I had a "never again" moment :P).
Add a button that says "Start Now" so that less-than-five groups can start whenever, or you can stay in queue indefinitely by not pressing the button?
Or even simpler: The queue system queues you up like in an Alert, but you can also just walk right into the actual Lair with whatever group you have, and do it with just that group.
Correct, the current* Alert-Queue version of Lemurian Crisis requires a full group or it doesn't launch, which means you never actually get in if you just queue up. You have to treat it similar to Nemcon (form your own group/spam chat) which I imagine most don't bother with for a non-required Crisis.
I actually think the 'Start Now' button might be easier/simpler to code. It's certainly more elegant. Some lairs have odd quest-unlock requirements to even enter that you would have to code out for the 'walk-in' solution.
*Assuming I haven't missed any patch notes.
And I will always be @DZPlayer122.
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Does leaving lairs as they are now improve their accessibility? Currently, if you want to run a lair, you're likely to end up doing it solo, or not at all... or you spam zone for an hour and then solo or not at all.
At least with the que system, you could que yourself, then go about your business, and stand a decent chance of ending up with at least one other person in that lair, rather than solo or not at all.
I mean... is your solution to the problem really to just leave things as they are? A vote for doing nothing is a vote for leaving lairs as abandoned content... and aren't we always complaining that we don't have enough content?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
No - my solution to the problem would be very simple: give them some decent rewards. The main problem with their current state is the general lack of interest.
The problem with converting them to alert-style queues is that you'd still have that lack of interest, which results in the queue being, frankly, useless, since there'd never be enough people in it to make the alert start. (Note to devs: This would be less of an issue if starting an alert didn't remove you from every other queue you were in. At the least, exiting an alert should put you back in whatever queues for other alerts you had up.)
The solution is to adjust the rewards so that they're actually worth running; make the end bosses drop q boxes; make a daily mission to go run some specific lair; all of these are things that would be of far more utility than mucking about with access mechanisms.
In other words, changing places like Therakiel's Temple into an alert is (in my opinion) probably not worth the dev's time. Relaxing the current restrictions on how often you can run it - as the OP suggested - would be worth doing. Making it (and all lairs) have decent rewards would be worth doing. Making more teleport-to-content alerts so that everyone continues to just stand around in RC all the time? No thanks. That doesn't help, and I'd rather the devs spend time on something more useful.
Yeah, sure. You totally "did" explained to me very clearly nothing with my original comment that you're saying was misinterpreted. All you did was pick apart everything since. I could say you made a typo in your first ever comment, and you say you didn't, and ask for proof in your second comment... and then i can show you a typo made in your second comment but not in the first. Because apparently to you that's acceptable.
I realise now you mean someone else i had quoted, still haven't misinterpreted it though. Normally i would pick that up sooner, but i tend to have trouble dealing with people with broken english as they tend to misuse words like that.
What do open missions have to do with this? Learn to read and go over it again, it was an example, and quite valid as no matter what you think about "it's easy to change something hard-coded" to simply turn it off in one spot etc. That was the original reason the mega destroid event was canned so early, because they couldn't just simply turn off one aspect to it. They have even said at the time, they would have to re-do the entire team up coding all over again to even make it possible to turn it off for various events because they never thought there would ever be a situation where they would need to, and considering it was still the old cryptic team, i'd imagine the same lack of foresight with alert coding.
Anyway, i have since tried the MI crisis again, so it does seem it now can be solo'd again, so it must have been updated again at another time as it was initially non-solo-able (no, this doesn't mean you were right, just that it had been changed since)
I still see alertifying TT as still causing more problems than it solves, and quite frankly if you want it so badly go make your own thread and stop hijacking mine
Lairs are "abandoned content" because those mazes have no cheese at the end. Gamers are, by and large, reward-driven. No reward? No interest.
Non-Lair Example: UNTIL Sky Command.
There is no such thing as a free lunch. If you aren't paying for it, you aren't the customer; you are the product being sold.
Dollar, dollar, bill, yo. Cash rules everything around you and me.
Prior to the auras update, i was enjoying using both my Dark Aura, and my passive animation at once, now due to this "let's revamp abandoned content" mentality, i get to repay to be able to have both on at once again. If the solution to abandoned content is to take it away, and rebrand it, no thanks.
There's a flaw on your logic. If people were going to queue anyway, then they would also be 'spamming' in zone chat to find others who are also wanting to do it. You act like using zone chat won't work at all and people who want to do TT intentionally avoid others looking for a group.
As well as, people already currently spam "everyone, queue for gravitar please" or for any number of the alerts, when people still don't join. so either way there's still spamming zone chat or someone finding someone.
And if people want to be able to control who they play with, they still need to spam zone for specific roles, to form a team. such as tank or healer. Alert can't do that for you. it's first come first server
Shouldn't you be able to put Dark Aura in the Always On slot, and your passive animation of choice in the Combat Only slot?
I had found a way to keep the combat effects to remain on outside of combat though
Ah. Well that is a loss, then. Sorry, man.
Wow... let's go down the list.
Slippery Slope
Strawman
False Cause
Composition/Division
Black-Or-White
The changes to auras and the proposed changes to lairs aren't the same thing.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Nitpick much? I was then commenting on your mentality to want everything revamped and rebanded every so often , tell me where exactly i said "auras caused TT to become dead
I could waste my time linking words too, such as hypocrite, moron, ****** etc. but what would be the point? you wouldn't understand it.
Like i said, if you want your srupid crap to happen go make your own thread, and stop hijacking mine for your moronic cause
Let's just go ahead and add Ad Hominem.
I always know I've made a really good point when the person I'm debating with suddenly and abruptly devolves into childish behavior. What's next, gonna call me a poopy face and make fun of my brown bag lunch?
Also, the queues thing? Yeah, that wasn't actually even initially my suggestion... that was Chuckwolf's suggestion, so maybe you should be trying to kick him out of "your" thread? Though honestly, if you can't handle the fact that your posts are public... then maybe you shouldn't post publicly.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
And given that, after all the suggestions that have gone by in this thread, alertifying lairs is only up to the level of "not clearly inferior to current mechanics"... I can't say it's a good idea. I'm not insightful enough to point out exactly where it would cause problems - but the fact remains that, particularly with what the devs have told us about the fragility of the lair coding, it's highly likely that it would cause problems.
So no, you got a "ad hominem" reaction not because your argument was good - but because it was so bad that it got Skcark to react emotionally rather than logically.
Go ahead, why don't you just list every word in existence then against me? Because i'm sure listing words is valid enough without having to say WHY something is, else you'd be using words, not linking me to labels because you don't know how to elaborate on it.
I know the alert mention wasn't originally your comment, but when i said i'd rather not have a thread about removing the daily cap to being about adding more stupid limitations by adding alert queues, YOU chose to continue arguing "well he never said that" and then it went to a back and forth series about the whole mess where you still seem to defend the horrible idea of alertifying it.
It seriously does NOT improve anything, ignoring cryptics comments before about elements they've hard coded in, and found a way around it without having to redo everything all over again. There's still plenty of underlying issues that still make it entirely pointless, most of all the issue with when someone leaves and now you can't just invite more friends to replace the missing team mate, or have someone go outside and look for randoms to join.
It doesn't matter if you say "they can do it like hero games" if it was possible, why haven't they already done that for current alerts with people dropping out, or even nemesis confrontation? (you can't say it can't be done because a nemesis is already generated, as according to you, cryptic have ways around every problem no matter how deep it is)
teams would still have to organize themselves BEFORE queueing to make sure they have their tank/healer and not 5 single tanks queuing and geting stuck and get trounced badly or even 5 healers and so on.. so alertifying makes it even more hassle, especially midway.
Whether or not they find a way to allow people to jump in the middle, it's still a problem either way, if someone D/C's temporarily, and try to come back to find some new guy has taken over their spot with no way to kick them out because there's no assigned leader in team up teams, worse, what if they're useless and may as well just quit now to save the team the trouble? nope, the system you're defending decided they must stay!
Even worse if the person 'leading' the group d/c's to be replaced, yay, time to restart... dc again.. restart endlessly, as opposed to relog and resume
And let's not forget, Cryptic LOVE to levelgate virtually everything... from memory, i can only recall 2 things not levelgating people up/down to 30, Gravitar (Surprised tbh, i know it's designed to be super hard, exactly why i expected 40's to be leveled down) and that harbinger event alert... I also enjoyed the *new* finkle foundry alert with it's addition of making me level 30 when doing it.. even though the mobs are already scaled. An example of the same thing being rebranded each year for no apparent reason and has absolutely ZERO impact on improving it, only more tedious. If you actually had the quest item, you could simply cancel the quest while inside and never lose the quest item, and do it for all 365 days, if you wanted, cause i certainly couldn't stand to farm something so annoying even 2 times a day.
Even UNTIL sky command was levelgated (it might have changed, but i can never get it started, because it's truly DEAD) it's the only thing i can agree needs to be revitalised, hell remove a letter and pretend it's an entirely new event for all i care.
This is sort of how Dungeons work in Neverwinter (equivalent to lairs over there) and it seems to be just fine. If you queue you can enter from anywhere with a random team of 5. If you walk to the door you have a "enter with my current team" option and can do it solo or with 2, etc.
Also, their Queue system will backfill if someone leaves, you can get a random dude just popping in to replace them. But that kinda sucks if you get into a dungeon that's all finished and two scrubs are wiping on the end boss over and over.
Long story short (too late), I approve this idea of Biff's having experienced it in another cryptic game.