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Cyrone's PFF Q/A Help Thread v2

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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Gonna go back to IDF, I've been reviewing this thread and I think with FG's current build IDF will work wonders.

    So, I'll just be using IDF and Concentration, IDF mainly I think, Concentration for damage, hopefully I'll learn to use MSA again :P
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    Were you here when CO had the 3 damage types? Parnormal, Physical and Energy? Back when paranormal (telepathy) powers didn't work on robots.. I loved those days.

    Those were fun times along with physical/non-physical crowd control.

    As for Pulson tech weapons - having a good dodge/avoid with IDF and a HoT will be wonderful to use for PFF survival.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • gamehobogamehobo Posts: 1,970 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    cyrone wrote: »


    As for Pulson tech weapons - having a good dodge/avoid with IDF and a HoT will be wonderful to use for PFF survival.

    I think every defense should have an offense that does well against it. If you have PFF you are less vulnerable to energy/physical but are more vulnerable to paranormal.

    If you have Regen you are less vulnerable to paranormal and physical, but are more succeptable to physical..

    etc..
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    I think every defense should have an offense that does well against it. If you have PFF you are less vulnerable to energy/physical but are more vulnerable to paranormal.

    If you have Regen you are less vulnerable to paranormal and physical, but are more succeptable to physical..

    etc..

    I like the sound of that.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    gamehobo wrote: »
    I think every defense should have an offense that does well against it. If you have PFF you are less vulnerable to energy/physical but are more vulnerable to paranormal.

    If you have Regen you are less vulnerable to paranormal and physical, but are more succeptable to physical..

    etc..

    Sounds good, would mean I'd finally bathe in the blood of VIPER soliders as they tried in vain to escape my force blasts/cascades/holds/detonations >:)

    Just as long as Pulson isnt classed as paranormal :tongue:
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Sounds good, would mean I'd finally bathe in the blood of VIPER soliders as they tried in vain to escape my force blasts/cascades/holds/detonations >:)

    Just as long as Pulson isnt classed as paranormal :tongue:

    The Pulson projectiles do resemble dimensional energy. :frown:
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    cyrone wrote: »
    The Pulson projectiles do resemble dimensional energy. :frown:

    But in the combat log they are crushing and fire damage, hurhurhurhurhurhur...FORCEGIRL WILL BATHE IN THE BLOOD OF VIPER!!! :biggrin:
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    I am trying to make a Force Field Support build, but problem is, there does not seem to be any way to go Support without losing my PFF. Also, when I put a Force Field on a player, an NPC knocks it off him/her in two seconds flat. Need help bad.
  • navar#3536 navar Posts: 117 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    So somebody in game is telling me either use Tank or Hybrid spec to keep PFF and as far as Protection Field is concerned, it's pretty much useless? Gah, could really use some help here.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    So somebody in game is telling me either use Tank or Hybrid spec to keep PFF and as far as Protection Field is concerned, it's pretty much useless? Gah, could really use some help here.

    Well, if you want to try a PFF support build, Stat, CON with PRE and INT. Since you cant get "critical shields" Dex isnt going to be that much of a help to you.

    CON as Primary for KB resistance and for general sturdyness

    PRE as Secondary for Protection Field boosting (as the shields scale off bonus healing which PRE is made for so they go in tandem)

    INT as a Secondary for Cost Discount, Stealth Sight and MSA if you decide to use it.

    I'd go for Conviction in the build, likely stay Hybrid for the bonus healing from stats to further boost shields.

    PFF as passive ofc

    Compassion as a form power which scales off PRE, so be sure to focus on PRE if you want to get the most out of your bubbles and Compassion.

    Be sure not to bubble too much, you need damage to stack Compassion so just be careful with that one.
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited April 2013
    Could go with Dex over Con for dodge specs and gear for dodge, since dodge goes well with everything. Would also allow for higher damage. I'll try to get something put together for a support PFF style character after work.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I posted this result on a different thread lol, so just posting it here :3

    This was on my force field toon ForceGirl

    Gravitar deals 337 (94087) Crushing Damage to you with Force Detonation.

    <3

    :biggrin:
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    I posted this result on a different thread lol, so just posting it here :3

    This was on my force field toon ForceGirl

    Gravitar deals 337 (94087) Crushing Damage to you with Force Detonation.

    <3

    :biggrin:

    What was your remaining shield strength? :cool:
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited May 2013
    cyrone wrote: »
    What was your remaining shield strength? :cool:

    6.9k :3 :biggrin:

    but damn..it was awesome :biggrin:
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Hello Cyrone, Raven. Can I get some help with a PFF Force Tank? I'm at level 21 and I have pretty damn good energy management, but I feel completely useless in alerts. The bosses kill me and I don't seem to be doing much damage, should I have taken Concentration? I'd prefer IDF, but I'm willing to swap.

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Quasar

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Impulse
    Level 6: Academics
    Level 9: Wordly
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Daredevil
    Level 18: Amazing Stamina
    Level 21: Investigator

    Powers:
    Level 1: Force Bolts
    Level 1: Force Blast (Rank 2, Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Disruptive Force, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Force Shield (Rank 2, Rank 3, Force Sheathe)
    Level 17: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Ice Sheath
    Level 23: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Overdrive
    Level 32:
    Level 35:
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)
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  • joybuzzerxjoybuzzerx Posts: 882 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    Hello Cyrone, Raven. Can I get some help with a PFF Force Tank? I'm at level 21 and I have pretty damn good energy management, but I feel completely useless in alerts. The bosses kill me and I don't seem to be doing much damage, should I have taken Concentration? I'd prefer IDF, but I'm willing to swap.

    While I'm not Cyrone or Raven, my thoughts would be, you're level 21.

    You likely don't have gear. You're just now going into your second SPEC Tree, Force Blast and Crushing Wave aren't exactly chart toppers when it comes to damage, so comparing yourself to those you likely see in the alerts with you, will have you feeling like you're not doing damage, especially when you don't have a power like Concentration to help give you more damage.

    But you also don't give any info like "This is what I've ranked up so far" Have you ranked up PFF? You just tell us what you have planned so far.
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    Hello Cyrone, Raven. Can I get some help with a PFF Force Tank? I'm at level 21 and I have pretty damn good energy management, but I feel completely useless in alerts. The bosses kill me and I don't seem to be doing much damage, should I have taken Concentration? I'd prefer IDF, but I'm willing to swap.

    Hi ^^.

    Without Concentration, I will say that you will have a hard time doing "uber" damage. You are level 21 so your build is still getting there.

    However with IDF this will help your PFF stay active much longer. I'll look at your build and give you some advice.

    Being a tank with PFF requires a good deal of dodging capability, as well as being able to buff your defense at all times. That is how my ForceGirl (PFFer) works. She is build to be very defensive and uses IDF.

    *runs off to look at your build*
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    A few basic things:

    - Never rely on your shields fully. The way they are in game makes them reliable at the start of the fight but as you continue to go on they will take a drastic turn and fall (until you save them with Field Surge of course)

    - You will be tanking so get some healing in your build. Since PFF by default lets through 5% damage at all times, you will always be healing your HP.

    - Energy Unlock - Overdrive doesn't scale terribly well with INT. That and you only have one maintain attack. (A pretty poor one but that is by it's nature.)

    - Boosting Dodge and Avoidance - Naturally through gear you will be boosting this value but for PFF success dodging is *key*. MD will not always be there to aid you so finding other ways to boost dodge is in order.

    - Boosting Shields - Even by minor amounts this can help you take on higher/tougher impacts.

    Taking all of the above into account:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Quasar

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Impulse
    Level 6: Academics
    Level 9: Wordly
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Brilliant
    Level 18: Indomitable
    Level 21: Tireless

    Powers:
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Force Blast (Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Crushing Wave (Disruptive Force, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Molecular Self-Assembly
    Level 17: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 20: Ice Sheath
    Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Force Shield (Force Sheathe)
    Level 32: Conviction (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

    I have changed the order, advantage points and added a few powers to this build, as well as removed one.

    Reasons:

    Molecular Self Assembly (MSA) - Will proc energy off Conviction, BCR, Evasive, MD, Field Surge and Ice Sheathe. Much better than with Overdrive relying on one power. Also this energy unlock scales fantastically with INT, which you have statted.

    Bountiful Chi Resurgence (BCR) - Once you have dodge gear, this will keep your HP side of things nice and high, something you'll really appreciate.

    Conviction - An added heal, can crit heal and boosts actual HP for a short time, which can help you survive high powered spikes which may remove PFF, it also has a short CD so will be your indirect way of gaining energy.

    Force Bolts - Energy Refraction - Boosts your PFF number and is layered on top of PFF. More shield is always good.

    Evasive - Added this in to increase dodge mid combat, works nicely with BCR when MD is down. Has a reasonable CD so will also help proc MSA

    Point Shift - I shifted some advantage points around to accommodate some build changes.

    The point shift affected the following powers:


    Force Blast - Why? - This will not be doing much damage, unless you are crit happy. I have made it so that this power is mainly used to reapply Crippling Challenge on Tap, the rank 2 can be better used elsewhere.

    Crushing Wave - Why? - This power will probably be your source of "DPS" and application of CS every tick with taps of Force Blast to keep the Boss on you. Rank 2 can be used elsewhere.

    Force Shield - Why? - As a tank you shouldn't be blocking that much, although I do understand the way you initially ranked it, those advantage points could be used better elsewhere. Force Sheathe by itself is a great aid to PFF. Sadly it does NOT increase in effectiveness if you rank up Force Shield (if that was what you thought). Blocking for 1 sec or less, during tanking to reapply the sheathe is a good idea. Be sure to use this after you have firmly got the bosses attention or before entering a fight, with good dodge/avoid and IDF your PFF will be working as well as it can.

    If you are worried about damage, switching to Concentration will help a lot. IDF is really for super defense, if you are concerned about not being able to damage alongside others then switch to Concentration. Until IDF is reworked as a proper form power and given stacks of increasing resistance and damage % per stack, it will be a strange "form" power. Your PFF shouldn't loose much durability. In fact if you have decent dodge/avoid you will barely feel the difference.

    If you have any questions, feel free to Forum Inbox me or contact me in game @Ravenforce



    P.S. Due to IDF's HORRIFIC math scaling with super stats and it's non standardization to normal form powers (with stacking) it is VERY important to stick to super stats when considering this power. This is why I have changed your Talents.

    Also you may want to reconsider the EGO tree, Mental Endurance Spec will directly help you REC and max energy. Not necessary of course but if you feel your energy is ok, then continue on.
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Okay, thanks for the help. Learning that Crushing Wave is my DPS attack made everything click. I tested in the powerhouse and Overdrive gives plenty of energy, so I'm going to stick with that (although I'm taking it sooner) and it stacks very quickly since i only have to half maintain Crushing Wave for it.

    I got rid of Conviction though. I don't like it, it's too clicky. I'll be fine with BCR I think. I moved the points into Crushing Wave and my shield. I don't like doing Grav without at least an R2 shield.

    Here's the build I'm going with:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Quasar

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Impulse
    Level 6: Academics
    Level 9: Wordly
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Daredevil
    Level 18: Investigator
    Level 21: Amazing Stamina

    Powers:
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Force Blast (Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Disruptive Force, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Overdrive
    Level 17: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
    Level 20: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Ice Sheath
    Level 32: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

    EDIT: Thanks so much, same level, same gear, so much more fun. I feel kinda tanky now, still have to be careful with some of the heavier hitting bosses though.
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  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Nice, I hope you like your build :biggrin:

    As for a level 38 power..you might want to consider either a click heal like Palliate or a rez power like Rebirth if everything else fails in some instance.
  • jaazaniah1jaazaniah1 Posts: 4,998 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    It's always possible to take both Concentration and IDF. You just pick the one to use depending on the situation.
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  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    Okay, thanks for the help. Learning that Crushing Wave is my DPS attack made everything click. I tested in the powerhouse and Overdrive gives plenty of energy, so I'm going to stick with that (although I'm taking it sooner) and it stacks very quickly since i only have to half maintain Crushing Wave for it.

    I got rid of Conviction though. I don't like it, it's too clicky. I'll be fine with BCR I think. I moved the points into Crushing Wave and my shield. I don't like doing Grav without at least an R2 shield.

    Here's the build I'm going with:

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Quasar

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Impulse
    Level 6: Academics
    Level 9: Wordly
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Daredevil
    Level 18: Investigator
    Level 21: Amazing Stamina

    Powers:
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Force Blast (Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Disruptive Force, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Overdrive
    Level 17: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
    Level 20: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Ice Sheath
    Level 32: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

    EDIT: Thanks so much, same level, same gear, so much more fun. I feel kinda tanky now, still have to be careful with some of the heavier hitting bosses though.

    I was going to suggest removing Conviction but I see you beat me to it. As for your level 38 power I would go with Force Eruption. Handy for when things get too close, especially having Ego super stat. Gear for dodge/avoid/stats(growth gear/mods) and you should be pretty tough to kill, even against Gravitar (no ranking of the block enhancer needed). A good dodge for Protogen against Grav's yellow death bubble only takes off about 50% of his shields with very minimal HP damage.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    jaazaniah1 wrote: »
    It's always possible to take both Concentration and IDF. You just pick the one to use depending on the situation.

    Yup, I once ran a dual passive PFF/NW + Conc/IDF style force build on ForceGirl, it can be pretty good.
    cyrone wrote: »
    I was going to suggest removing Conviction but I see you beat me to it.

    Hmm, well with IDF+Other defenses I guess Conviction isn't necessary, I use it to proc MSA more than healing to be honest :biggrin:
    cyrone wrote: »
    As for your level 38 power I would go with Force Eruption. Handy for when things get too close, especially having Ego super stat. Gear for dodge/avoid/stats(growth gear/mods) and you should be pretty tough to kill, even against Gravitar (no ranking of the block enhancer needed). A good dodge for Protogen against Grav's yellow death bubble only takes off about 50% of his shields with very minimal HP damage.

    ^ This. Which I forgot to add (>_>")!

    Force Eruption not only looks "clean" at rank 1 but is useful for knocking pesky foes who your Crushing Wave may be missing or not easily able to get.
  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 272 Arc User
    edited September 2013
    Yup, I once ran a dual passive PFF/NW + Conc/IDF style force build on ForceGirl, it can be pretty good.



    Hmm, well with IDF+Other defenses I guess Conviction isn't necessary, I use it to proc MSA more than healing to be honest :biggrin:



    ^ This. Which I forgot to add (>_>")!

    Force Eruption not only looks "clean" at rank 1 but is useful for knocking pesky foes who your Crushing Wave may be missing or not easily able to get.


    I agree with the Force Eruption, also you can take the advantage for a nice 15% damage boost after using it.
    @Powerblast in game
  • sakuratamakisakuratamaki Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I haven't made a PFF toon myself, but does fluidity count as blocking for the increased shield regen?
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I haven't made a PFF toon myself, but does fluidity count as blocking for the increased shield regen?

    It does not, currently. I have made Gentleman Crush aware of this. He made it sound like it should and I guess will be looking into it as well as the return of in combat 50% regen reduction before taking shield damage.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    cyrone wrote: »
    It does not, currently. I have made Gentleman Crush aware of this. He made it sound like it should and I guess will be looking into it as well as the return of in combat 50% regen reduction before taking shield damage.

    He will also be fixing the problem where resists weren't layering over PFF unless IDF was active, right? Because that was really, really annoying when I tried to run a dodgeless PFF toon.
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  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    He will also be fixing the problem where resists weren't layering over PFF unless IDF was active, right? Because that was really, really annoying when I tried to run a dodgeless PFF toon.

    As far as I can tell, resist do layer over PFF. Have since last year. Confirmed the resists yesterday on my TK Blader.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    cyrone wrote: »
    As far as I can tell, resist do layer over PFF. Have since last year. Confirmed the resists yesterday on my TK Blader.

    Then I must have been doing something really, really wrong with Quasar. Because her shields went down like a deck of cards unless I had IDF up. Maybe it's just that she didn't kill very fast so more people were hitting her at once than on, say, Die Walkure.
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  • chuckwolfchuckwolf Posts: 272 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    tdits wrote: »
    Then I must have been doing something really, really wrong with Quasar. Because her shields went down like a deck of cards unless I had IDF up. Maybe it's just that she didn't kill very fast so more people were hitting her at once than on, say, Die Walkure.


    That's normal for a PFF/IDF combo, the main thing that damages PFF is the small attacks from multiple attackers not the big single attacks.

    They tend to whittle away at the PFF's health and multiple targets do it faster, IDF prevents or greatly lowers the damage from these minor attacks, giving your PFF the chance to regen enough to keep up. Also having Energy Refraction pop up occasionally along with Force Sheathe can make it last even longer.
    @Powerblast in game
  • sakuratamakisakuratamaki Posts: 59 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    One more question, is Unbreakable layered under or above PFF? If it's layered above PFF then with the recent change on Unbreakable, it might be usefull way to regen your shield for a little and unbreakable seems to fit on my theme that i am still designing
  • tditstdits Posts: 666 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    One more question, is Unbreakable layered under or above PFF? If it's layered above PFF then with the recent change on Unbreakable, it might be usefull way to regen your shield for a little and unbreakable seems to fit on my theme that i am still designing

    I believe it layers over PFF now, but I'm not entirely sure. I've never actually bothered to parse my combat numbers and I couldn't gauge how well it was working by feel. (Especially because I had IDF on).
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  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    One more question, is Unbreakable layered under or above PFF? If it's layered above PFF then with the recent change on Unbreakable, it might be usefull way to regen your shield for a little and unbreakable seems to fit on my theme that i am still designing

    Layered on top of PFF. I'm currently running it now on my PFF tank.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I've been trying to find a way to increase my dodge/avoidance using the Dexterity as a primary for a PFF build but I can't get anywhere past 18% dodge chance. Apparently the dodge specialization (the one that increases based on Dexterity) doesn't increase dodge chance. Feels like this is a bug.
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    I've been trying to find a way to increase my dodge/avoidance using the Dexterity as a primary for a PFF build but I can't get anywhere past 18% dodge chance. Apparently the dodge specialization (the one that increases based on Dexterity) doesn't increase dodge chance. Feels like this is a bug.

    I'll have a look and see about the dodge spec in Dex. Protogen is Dex primary and has a standing 27% dodge. Again, I'll check up on that spec.

    Edit:

    The specs are just fine. They just won't provide much of an increase with Dodge/Avoid gear. Gear alone I have ~25.8% dodge. With the spec it's 27%. I think I'll be going for more damage. :biggrin:
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    That's what I'm talking about even with over 240+ Dexterity can't get it past 18% or so. The build I'm making for the toon that uses PFF uses some Munitions powers (not a dual pistol type), tries to keep herself up with Protection Field and Field Surge. Back before the dodge hack job she had about 35% dodge and I feel like my shields are getting compromised way too early. I tried switching her block to Fluidity from Telekinetic Shield to try and mimic the original but having to block and hold it for 2 sec keeps her from being active (she's geared towards to being a tank).

    What's the point of the dodge/avoidance specializations in Dexterity now.
  • helbjornhelbjorn Posts: 678 Arc User
    edited November 2013
    What's the point of the dodge/avoidance specializations in Dexterity now.

    By my recollection, they've never been worth taking.
  • malagaarmalagaar Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Yup, I once ran a dual passive PFF/NW + Conc/IDF style force build on ForceGirl, it can be pretty good.



    Hmm, well with IDF+Other defenses I guess Conviction isn't necessary, I use it to proc MSA more than healing to be honest :biggrin:



    ^ This. Which I forgot to add (>_>")!

    Force Eruption not only looks "clean" at rank 1 but is useful for knocking pesky foes who your Crushing Wave may be missing or not easily able to get.


    I'm not sure if one month is considered necroing a thread and if so I apologize. A quick question on this build. Is it only for tanking or is it for regular missions too. To put out enough damage would I need to change the specs? Or could it perform as is? I like cyrones force build but want PFF instead of quarry and didn't think it was wise to just make a straight switch.

    So I came across this thread and this build. Sorry for the ignorant questions I am new to the game and find the numbers quite daunting. Dammit I'm an English Major not a mathematician!!
  • malagaarmalagaar Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    Oops! Guess it helps if I post the build

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Quasar

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Impulse
    Level 6: Academics
    Level 9: Wordly
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Daredevil
    Level 18: Investigator
    Level 21: Amazing Stamina

    Powers:
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Force Blast (Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Disruptive Force, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Overdrive
    Level 17: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
    Level 20: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Ice Sheath
    Level 32: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

    EDIT: Thanks so much, same level, same gear, so much more fun. I feel kinda tanky now, still have to be careful with some of the heavier hitting bosses though.[/QUOTE]
  • theravenforcetheravenforce Posts: 6,951 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    malagaar wrote: »
    Oops! Guess it helps if I post the build

    PowerHouse (Link to this build)

    Name: Quasar

    Archetype: Freeform

    Super Stats:
    Level 6: Ego (Primary)
    Level 10: Intelligence (Secondary)
    Level 15: Recovery (Secondary)

    Talents:
    Level 1: The Impulse
    Level 6: Academics
    Level 9: Wordly
    Level 12: Negotiator
    Level 15: Daredevil
    Level 18: Investigator
    Level 21: Amazing Stamina

    Powers:
    Level 1: Force Bolts (Energy Refraction)
    Level 1: Force Blast (Crippling Challenge)
    Level 6: Personal Force Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 8: Crushing Wave (Rank 2, Disruptive Force, Challenging Strikes)
    Level 11: Field Surge (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 14: Overdrive
    Level 17: Force Shield (Rank 2, Force Sheathe)
    Level 20: Inertial Dampening Field (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 23: Bountiful Chi Resurgence (Resurgent Reiki)
    Level 26: Masterful Dodge
    Level 29: Ice Sheath
    Level 32: Force Cascade (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35: Evasive Maneuvers (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 38:

    Travel Powers:
    Level 6: Flight (Rank 2, Rank 3)
    Level 35:

    Specializations:
    Ego: Force of Will (2/2)
    Ego: Insight (3/3)
    Ego: Follow Through (3/3)
    Ego: Sixth Sense (2/3)
    Guardian: Fortified Gear (3/3)
    Guardian: Locus (2/2)
    Guardian: Ruthless (2/2)
    Guardian: The Best Defense (3/3)
    Vindicator: Aggressive Stance (2/2)
    Vindicator: Merciless (3/3)
    Vindicator: Modified Gear (2/2)
    Vindicator: Mass Destruction (3/3)
    Mastery: Ego Mastery (1/1)

    EDIT: Thanks so much, same level, same gear, so much more fun. I feel kinda tanky now, still have to be careful with some of the heavier hitting bosses though.
    [/QUOTE]

    This looks pretty good from where I am sitting, just wondering what your final power is however.

    I assume you don't use BCR that much? Since you have RR advantage, since dodge has been reduced significantly, it doesn't seem as if it is going to proc much unless you are reserving it as an extra perk for when using Masterful Dodge.

    Also be aware that PFF is not currently functioning properly. In Combat Shield Regeneration Penalty is back...which is a bad thing and not intended. (Similar to Shadow of Doubt's value mishap.)
  • malagaarmalagaar Posts: 6 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    This isn't my build. I found it on page 12 I think. I was just curious if it was more for tanking or if it could put out enough damage to solo content.

    Sorry if I sounded misleading.
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited December 2013
    malagaar wrote: »
    This isn't my build. I found it on page 12 I think. I was just curious if it was more for tanking or if it could put out enough damage to solo content.

    Sorry if I sounded misleading.

    Change the Crippling Challenge and Challenging Strikes to actual power ranks if you want to drop the tanking aspect. Would allow for higher damage as well.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • rugrothrumborrugrothrumbor Posts: 534 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    cyrone wrote: »
    I'll have a look and see about the dodge spec in Dex. Protogen is Dex primary and has a standing 27% dodge. Again, I'll check up on that spec.

    Edit:

    The specs are just fine. They just won't provide much of an increase with Dodge/Avoid gear. Gear alone I have ~25.8% dodge. With the spec it's 27%. I think I'll be going for more damage. :biggrin:

    How did you get to 25% dodge chance?
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    How did you get to 25% dodge chance?

    Legion gear and R 7 mods
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    Hello Cyrone, Raven, and PFF Friends...

    Over this last weekend, I started playing my Force-themed character again after some time, and I'm wondering, did something change recently? I wasn't doing anything fancy, just some basic Alerts (mostly Grabs, he's only L29), but it seems my PFF just won't regenerate at all anymore, even Field Surge seems to be having lackluster results in restoring my PFF.

    Did PFF get a nerf?
    jIBJh7X.jpg
    When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
    there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    No, no nerf at all. The shield regen is bugged and the devs are aware.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • lordhavelocklordhavelock Posts: 2,461 Arc User
    edited January 2014
    cyrone wrote: »
    No, no nerf at all. The shield regen is bugged and the devs are aware.
    Ah! A bug affecting Shield Regen, eh? That would explain it. Cool. Thanks for the update.
    jIBJh7X.jpg
    When XP earnings during a Double-XP Weekend still feel like I'm underperforming,
    there's something terribly wrong with the reward system...

    You can find/contact me in game as @PatricianVetinari. Original Join Date: Feb 2010.
  • cyronecyrone Posts: 1,028 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    Shield regeneration is still bugged but I have been seeing more PFF players as of late and it make full of happy. Hopefully some of those players see this thread.
    download_zpsfcg5gnud.jpg
    "There is only one way to support a PFF tank: Send Cyrone lots of money weekly... because he's the only one to successfully be a true PFF Tank." - chuckwolf
  • raidey1raidey1 Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited February 2014
    So, after visiting this thread again, it looks like the general consensus is that Dodge is still one of the best things to invest in as a PFF Tank. Are there any viable ways to not invest in dodge and still be a decent PFF Tank? I ask because PFF is the most appealing Defense Passive to me, thematically, but at the same time I like the idea of overall damage resistance over dodging.
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