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Team Dueling Questions
lafury001200
Posts: 567 Arc User
1. Distance/Area: is it potentially the whole map the conflict is initiated on ?
2. Are there any rp vs pvp scenarios that are ongoing and newbie friendly ?
3. Any concept wars in progress (i.e. single stat vs soft cap smashbuilds) ?
4. Any organizational type rp conflicts ?
5. What constitutes a win if #1 is not an issue ?
6. How is Knockback viewed if #1 is an issue ?
(have many questions, for time being stopping here)
Any insights appreciated! Additonal questions also highly encouraged.
2. Are there any rp vs pvp scenarios that are ongoing and newbie friendly ?
3. Any concept wars in progress (i.e. single stat vs soft cap smashbuilds) ?
4. Any organizational type rp conflicts ?
5. What constitutes a win if #1 is not an issue ?
6. How is Knockback viewed if #1 is an issue ?
(have many questions, for time being stopping here)
Any insights appreciated! Additonal questions also highly encouraged.
Post edited by lafury001200 on
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1. It's the entire map.
2. We've tried it in the past.
3. Hmm, I think people have done this but I haven't before.
4. I wouldn't know, you would have to ask one of the RP'ers who PvP within their SG and with other RP SG's. I don't really know anything about this.
5. When everyone is dead or surrenders, we have done a few team duels in the past. I have done one or two videos of a few friendly duels us PvPers had.
Here is a 4v5 friendly team duel we did in the desert - http://youtu.be/eB7kgQVCPVs
Obviously that isn't themed or anything, it's just with the builds we all had at the time.
If you have any more questions I'll be happy to come up with an answer. xD
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Pretty much what mrhinkypunk said.
1 - As long as you don't leave the zone everything is free game.
2 - Not that I am aware of, if there are they don't tend to be fought out via actual PvP
3 - There was supposed to be one, which involved some of my toons but that idea died out due to circumstances beyond control of everyone.
4 - Likely there is out there, but there are RPers who make PvP builds and try to pass it off as "concept" (if you don't count: "unstoppable god who isn't affected by The Ban" concept
5 - Elimination of all members of the opposing team.
6 - In some instances KB is seen as an outright win condition. System wise, it counts as a win. Most people however (that I have encountered) don't count it as a win and rematch ASAP or team duel for no barriers (but still on a 1v1 level).
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But CO PvPers ar teh l33t roleplayers.
Nepht and Dr Deflecto on primus
They all thought I was out of the game....But I'm holding all the lockboxes now..
I'll......FOAM FINGER YOUR BACK!
* No spinnytop, this was not meant for rpers only.
I'm of the opinion that team dueling could serve 2 purposes, hence the questions.
1. It has the potential to give many of us vets something to do. I think a running themed team dueling event could bring pve, pvp, and rp players together. We could set up teams, dates/times, storylines, etc etc etc and simulate a good vs evil, cyborg vs undead, light vs dark, melee vs ranged, empaths vs telepaths, (insert idea here), what have you. Failing that, maybe just a light organized running event thrown together piecemeal with flexible schedules also sounds fun (to me at least ). Imagine how different the VB crisis would look with light vs dark teams fighting it out as an example.
2. It could make MC (and other zones) seem more lively. New players could see a plethora of builds, concepts, costumes, all shellacking each other in the background as they run missions. Might liven things up, help retention wise.
Again, ty for the answers
edit-ninjaed by Nepht! For this I shall steal your socks and gift them too your bro for the holidays!
Everybody has tons of creative ideas. To shape them in order to fit the mess above is a challenge that hasn't been overcome for years now, because it's not really possible to go "If you don't like it, scram." to people unless you want to start such events with a wonderful number of 2 to 4 participants instead of the 13 you told off.
I agree in general with the sentiments expressed. I understand it would be difficult to say the least. That being said, what you said about creative ideas is what gets me. Personally, I would prefer an open world pvp instance with substantially larger queues, but as this has been asked for time and again by more people than I could count, I don't see it happening.
Now this next comment may sound naive, and probably is. I think it's possible that with innovative thought, gameplay, use of the environment, and especially team work, that a theme build team could provide some challenge, even against a specced/geared pvp death squad. At the very least I think it would make for interesting fights. In addition, having multiple teams of varying levels/experience would help minimize the "mess" as you describe it. If enough people were interested, it could create a snowball effect and people who wanted to participate could, and those who aren't interested, well, different strokes and all that.
It's probably wishful thinking on my part. You're correct, it's likely a pipe dream. I still think it could be fun.
**apologies Forz, I had other thoughts re:balancing but had to cut this short, will edit later.
There is other stuff but you get the general idea. I'm pretty sure that a lot of people consider their builds their own builds, you can't tell people what to choose and what to be as you are going against all that CO is. I still really want to make my bomber imp build somehow which will probably be awful.
By the way we have attempted to do something sort of like this with more themed PvP team duels although they didn't go so well and people didn't like the way they were being forced to limit themselves. Not only this but it ended up mainly being the usual suspects of PvP anyway.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Whoa! Ok I may need to reread my own op. I'll edit as needed, just kinda swamped tonight so I'll get to it as quickly as I can, but my intention wasn't to exclude anyone or tell them how to build or tell them what constitutes a theme. I understand I don't post often but believe me, I had no intention of giving that impression. The examples i gave were just off the top of my head in terms of categories, and were just general categories people might fall into, as opposed to something one should build for. No one should be excluded in any way shape or form. Anyways I'll go back and reread and edit as necessary soon as i get a decent chunk of time to myself. I apologize for giving that impression, it was not my intent.
Sorry I was a little drunk when I did that post, I didn't really mean you in particular was saying this I really meant that this is what has happened in the past with similar ideas. I truly would like to meet some of the RP PvP'ers, I have met a few of them and sometimes tested builds on the PTS with them. The thing is I never really see them in game, they usually just stick with their friends list and super group to go to places like monster island to duel each other.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
It's not childish, it is in fact necessary. Once you start requiring people to back up what they want to RP with actual pvp ability, you've completely removed the entire point of RPing, and removed peoples' freedom to rp what they want.
It's like if every time you que up for hero games, an MMA fighter walks into the room where you're sitting and informs you that you have to beat him in a fight, and if you lose they give your character a build that represents your own real life fighting ability relative to that of a super hero.
Or if some kids are playing house, and you run up to the little girl who's playing the mommy and say "WTF you can't pretend to be a mom, you haven't even gone through puberty yet! You better pop out some kids right now or I'm shutting this whole house thing down!"
RPPvPers avoid hero games because the hero games are a terrible place to roleplay. Hell, you can't even effectively use a theme build there.
As for the whole RP Team duels idea... it will only work if you keep the hardcore pvpers out.. unless of course you just want to RP something where they always win :P
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Perhaps it's a combination of different priorities while playing. I wouldn't say childish, but it is a bit baffling. Also there is (at least in my case) some feeling of trepidation regarding pvp. Couple reasons for this:
1. CO itself may be easy, but in my limited experience, fighting in the hero games is not. My opponent(s) are not npc's, obviously. They are actual people, some of whom have logged in hours innumerable pvping. They are there for the same reason as the npcs, but are quite a bit more adept in shredding me to pieces. I don't get nervous (the whopping 4-6 queues I join a week), but it does get the blood flowing.
2. In regards specifically to CO pvp, it can be frustrating because trauma.
3. Again, just my personal experience but people seem a bit gunshy of pvp in a few games that I now play.
Back to your point however, yeah there does seem to be a rift between the 2 camps, and I don't understand it either really. Which is a shame, because sometimes i play at odd hours and will wait for a queue to pop, get frustrated with waiting, and log out. More people queued would obviously help.
Anywhoo a couple more queries-
Did you guys try random or otherwise assorted types of teaming, or were the teams just friends or sg mates vs same all the time?
If someone did put together a schedule for team dueling, would you prefer it be random team assignments, or something with more structure? A combination of the two?
Have any of the hardcore pvpers thought of starting an a sort of training school or mechanism? Do you think that might encourage more people to join the hero games in greater numbers than team dueling would?
Again ty for the input, it's much appreciated.
Basically we did it like a draft situation where everyone lines up and you have two leaders that pick their teams in turn. If we had healers in the duel then they would be the leaders. Of course you got a lot of the case where people would only pick their friends, but I think most people are friendly enough to each other anyway so it wasn't too much of a case. We only sometimes got entire teams of Spectre wanting to beat up people. (okay maybe more the sometimes)
Random team assignments has even more of a chance to be unfair to be honest although both aren't perfect.
I've always helped people who come up asking for help, when I first made the switch from PvE to PvP about a year ago we would team duel against Green's cheese on our much more themed builds in a 3v1. After that I would ask him about a lot of stuff and a lot of the stuff he said has helped me a lot. I actually recorded many of the PvP'ers at the time with demo_record so I could play them back in slow mo to see their different movement patterns and power / device combos.
I was actually making a video where I would talk through my builds and my movement in PvP (which I think is one of the main things in CO) but I ended up not finishing it. I was also thinking of making a guide where I would say how to make a viable build even while sticking to your theme and would look into maxing an abilities damage or maxing your own defence. Never really got around to doing that too though. <.<
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Just as an aside if the video and guide are close too completion go for it. The wiki is excellent, but people want the info behind all that, and power display videos are almost always cool. They both sound awesome, push em over the goal line.
That sounds exciting... a school where the instructors just repeatedly tell you to take the same powers over and over.
The real issue is, most people actually lose interest after they learn what they have to do to be viable in pvp.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Ego surge;
Masterful dodge;
Ascension;
Conviction;
MSA unless you have no INT in which case take spirit reverberation;
INT and CON as 2 of your 3 specs.
Okay, you're good to go!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Why? So we can have more 'Monkey see Monkey do' builders running around?
Honestly, Theme-pvp and AT pvp tops any of these so-called hardcore Pvp builds. You're better off as you are, so don't be infected by the almighty STD-pvp-templates.
Most of these guys stand around like they're Gods in RenCen. ((coughs)) It's about fun and enjoying the concepts you start up and enjoy. There is no need to give up what you enjoy only to engage in the -If we can't beat 'em join 'em- scenario - which so many brown-nosin' players have already done. Don't be a tool! <~ No offense
Most of these guys contribute nothing to which they desire, which is Hero Games. Instead, they encourage players to build as they do. That's why when they fight, it's like watching a player fight him/herself mirroring each others moves most of the time. No variation, no excitement ... just straight POO!
You have a PTS, use it and make a fun build that even ATs have a chance against! And if you're Silver with a FF slot, just build around what the theme should have or the story behind it.
Yours truly ~
~ Groove Healin' 2
Whoa... Massive stereotyping here. How many PvP'ers do you even know, I bet you just seen a few of the ones with their pink and black troll costumes using a basic cheese build. You may have even seen some of the people who don't actually PvP yet use a cookie cutter for some reason and presumed they are PvPers.
And yes there are many people I see who don't ACTUALLY PvP and yet have the FOTM cheese and only ever PvP in duels, I don't really know who they are maybe part of the RP community? If that's the case in what way is that themed? 0.o
Many PvP'ers use a concept instead of a theme and are actually amazingly un cheesy, malware for example flys around as an impossible to kill presence. The supremacy uses a super tank that spawns rocks to punch people. We use to have a player called Eve playing who would ALWAYS use a full concept build. Nepht brings their PvE tank into hero games all the time. Cerberus always attempts something new and original built around his play style instead of others. Foxi even brings their 5.whatever HP pure PvE into BASH.
This is just naming a few of the PvP'ers that are far from the stereotype that you laid out. Too be honest I spend hours and hours, maybe even entire days on the PTS or in the powerhouse building something new and original and trying to make that a viable thing. Too be honest I just play what I find fun, I don't really see how any of my current builds are cheesy and they are all fairly easy to kill. I bring my inventor AT and my level 35 fist AT into BASH all the time. By the way when people use AT as an excuse just try out your damage in comparison to a FF. <.<
Just calm down with the stereotype thing, I strongly disagree with what you just said here.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Love speech btw
Also, if you're not one of these guys, no need to hop on the offended-wagon - leave that to the guilty ones. You already had an idea of what I was referring to and lets be honest, the pool of pvp players is not that big; you'd probably named most of them right now aside from those in (belows SG)
Anyways, end of '12 to 2013 was horrible - Shout out to Spear of Poo | Altered Poo's | and Dark Poo-Sade and thanks for spreading those STD-Builds!
{Together we can Ebon Ruin PVP! Don't let me FG-2GM you! I totally ES-SS'd you! Beware my Eruption cycling! It's totally about Devices, Baby!}
The Supremacy makes me laugh when he home-runs players. @Imyournightmare, go back to your Mind AT.
[edit] If anyone replies to this, i'll be snoozing for awhile since I'm snow'd in
~Yours truly
~ Groove Healin' 2
"Look at all these unique builds! Tank build, tank build, tank build, tank build... oh and this one squishy
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
The tanks just find they can't kill each other and all just 4v1 the squishy.
CO PvP.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
No, if I find I can't kill someone I often attack him anyway. Especially if he is leading and I am hoping at some point someone will join me. But I don't care about winning bash anyway. I am there to have some enjoyable fights.
What I do not really enjoy is playing rocket tag. I am not a big fan of squishy burst, jump in, kill someone and run away. While it is a viable tactic and I have no problems with people using it, I just do not enjoy doing that myself.
So I am building tanky. I enjoy jumping into the fray and staying there. Often I die because I just refuse to retreat but I am getting better at that I guess. These days I even remember to use teleport. I might be using LR but I am in no way unkillable.
If I end up killing squishies it is because:
- They would kill me otherwise
- I did not know he was squishy before
- I end up targeting him by accident since everyone hast some sort of stealth, I often loose my targets and end up targeting someone I did not want to.
What I would really enjoy would be some group fights. But usually nothing pops other than bash and very rarely ZA.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Umm, kinda at a loss here. No that is not what I was suggesting. There are other considerations besides just power picks. Also, if your experiences with the game include std's and tons of excrement, I think your CO download may have been corrupted. Fix as necessary.
As others have noted there are some theme builds in there.
I know we aren't supposed to mention Eve, but that is the one player that comes close to scaring me, and it didn't seem to have fotm powers. Other players kill me quicker, but they don't usually make a beeline for me and then kill my character while I am forced to view that hideous avatar (I mean that in a good way, it's just so tiny and evil looking). Thats a theme build.
I want more group fights as well, sort of why I started the thread, but maybe it would just be better to focus on CN and ask for new pvp maps that allow for more players. Everyone seems kinda busy with the holidays. I still maintain that team dueling in large numbers could be fun if CN refuses to throw pvp a bone. Before people jump all over me for taking that position, think for a second: are there more testers on PTS now than before? No. The alienation drove people who by their very nature want to test themselves and new content away, leaving us with a handful of dedicated testers, who do the best they can, but seriously when new content is a chore to test on PTS because there are not enough people queing, it's a problem.
The PTS should be open to silvers. There is no sub fee in NWO. Anyone can test. We need that here.
:biggrin:
Team Dueling is FUN! Like a Raid large?
[edit] I want a grinning face instead
~ Yours truly
~Groove Healin'
As many people as we could get w/out messing things up for people not participating, so hopefully we could many players. I agree, it would be cool.
U no kill nobody 'cause I keel U OMG
I Geyser you to the air then Straf Run U 2 the ground.
[edit] for colors woot colors
In Champions Online PvP, it's not what you know, it's who you know.
Impossible is nothing.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.