You don't need a passive to tank either, its perfectly plausible to tank 90% of this game without any passive. So saying anything in comparison to a PvE standard means absolutely jack ****. Comparisons need to be made between powers, not if the power works in PvE, because Mist Form can work just fine in PvE too. :rolleyes:
The entire point in the nerfs is that at the current moment if new content was released people would do it in seconds wouldn't find it hard at all and it would last long, everyone will be back standing around in MC in no time. Instead we need to fix up the errors made over the years by things being over buffed or rushed before devs left to go help out at NW. The devs are back now and hopefully they'll fix up all the broken stuff people can have in their builds because at the current time content wont last long.
I don't understand why you call for hard content and yet strongly hate the new gear and strongly hate any fixes to broken game mechanics. Embrace the fixes and enjoy the benefits (new content) that hopefully is to come.
FYI revitalise is still perfectly fine to use, it uses up just 3 spec points and so should be build changing anyway, the idea is you don't have a build built around it instead you use it to back up your build. It wasn't designed to be used like it was used for the self touch build to have perma MD / ego surge / NPG spam, it was designed to help recharge your powers as you used your energy builder in between attacks.
Also I still believe you can tank this game with virtually anything.
having 2 active defenses also means that you lose out on taking another power for your build. if anything is done, better to limit people to 1 active defense and 1 active offense rather than nerfing everything else into the ground. and yes revitalize was nerfed so hard it's no longer worth having.
(btw if they do limit it to 1 each, they'd better fix PFF first as that passive basically requires you to have 2 active defenses if you plan on tanking)
So you're advocating that they restrict our build choices? That seems strange coming from you, since you're always talking about how you hate that the nerfs supposedly restrict how you can build... yet here you are, advocating that they impose more restrictions on our build choices.
Also, you have a strange notion of what "nerfed into the ground" means. For example, dodge was not nerfed into the ground, so why would cooldowns receive any different of a treatment?
It's like you always say... players should be able to build for things right? Well, if someone wants to have those super short cooldowns, they should have to build for it, not just slap a few mods into a piece of gear and call it a day. Just like you can still build for high dodge chance, you will still be able to build for low cooldowns after such a nerf.
It's like you say, if you take a power to get something, you give up the ability to get other things. Well, after the cooldown nerf, you would have to take something for your cooldowns to be low, giving up other options. This would be a good thing, because it creates greater diversity in builds. The inflated cooldown reduction, crit chance, and dodge chance stats were causing less diversity in builds.
So in closing, I am in favor of more viable choices for builds, and greater build diversity. Feel free to disagree (or better yet, just go play an Archetype if you hate those things so much).
So in closing, I am in favor of more viable choices for builds, and greater build diversity. Feel free to disagree (or better yet, just go play an Archetype if you hate those things so much).
Also I still believe you can tank this game with virtually anything.
That depends on your definition of tanking. Tanking pve content means keeping agro, and soaking up damage, as far as I am concerned. And you certainly can't do that with any build on any team.
I have a very good idea how you can build tanks thank you very much. It is you who claimed "immortal toons" that I called you up on it. There is no such thing as invincible. Now you go back on it and say "I was talking about durable...bla bla bla". That's not the same thing.
If you base your argument on a hyperbole and the go on and rant about it then don't expect others not to call you on this. There is no way you can make a toon to be immortal, you will always take at the very least 1 dmg.
I know exactly what this MMO is supposed to be. I don't care about other MMOs and their prerogative neither is "OTHER MMOs" do X,Y,Z applicable to CO. Again you come up with nonsensical arguments based on MMOs? Since when is CO supposed to be like any other MMO. Nowhere in MMO does it say that you have to team up with people. It's Massive Multiplayer not Massive Teamup.
How exactly am I disregarding your playstyle by telling you NOT to EXPECT others to bend over so that your toon concept is viable/needed/wanted. You are just selfish and demand that you should be useful because you are a HEALER QQ. You might not have noticed but ANYONE can heal in CO, how exactly do you expect to be NEEDED eh? You are just being unreasonable.
Example used or not it changes nothing, it's not about compassion it's about 1 person or 1 build asking to be NEEDED at the expense of the people around it. If I don't build a toon that needs a HEALER why should I need a HEALER? Am I supposed to have to change my build just because someone wanted to play a HEALER?
When I make a toon it does not require anyone else for me to enjoy playing it of feeling useful. If you build toons that rely on others need of X then don't expect to be NEEDED.
Obviously you don't know the difference between durable and immortal. Durable means resisting damage, Immortal means never DIEING. Immortal does not have anything to do with negating damage. It has everything to do with not dieing. There is a huge difference. You can be immortal and take tons of damage but never die, and you can be durable and take little damage and still die. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Also, I never said "I was talking about durable...bla bla bla" So don't go putting words in other people's mouths.
And I have made toons that were immortal, in pve and pvp. Tanks? Yes they used the tanking role. But they were never killable. And I seriously need to make one on live instead of only on the pts...but thats not the point.
Massive Multiplayer means interacting with others on a daily basis. This is implied and how things work, its obvious you missed something so easy to see and understand.
"And yes you should feel not needed because you are not needed. " That is a very simple way of disregarding someone else's play style. Do you not pay attention to what you say? I could be even more picky about your choice of words, but it is late and I'm tired. Plus, if I'm being unreasonable, than so are you in the exact same manner and for the exact same reasons (on a basic level, basically the opposite side of the coin).
Obviously you don't know the difference between durable and immortal. Durable means resisting damage, Immortal means never DIEING. Immortal does not have anything to do with negating damage. It has everything to do with not dieing. There is a huge difference. You can be immortal and take tons of damage but never die, and you can be durable and take little damage and still die. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Also, I never said "I was talking about durable...bla bla bla" So don't go putting words in other people's mouths.
And I have made toons that were immortal, in pve and pvp. Tanks? Yes they used the tanking role. But they were never killable. And I seriously need to make one on live instead of only on the pts...but thats not the point.
Massive Multiplayer means interacting with others on a daily basis. This is implied and how things work, its obvious you missed something so easy to see and understand.
"And yes you should feel not needed because you are not needed. " That is a very simple way of disregarding someone else's play style. Do you not pay attention to what you say? I could be even more picky about your choice of words, but it is late and I'm tired. Plus, if I'm being unreasonable, than so are you in the exact same manner and for the exact same reasons (on a basic level, basically the opposite side of the coin).
Obviously you just QQ because that's all you seem to be able to do. There is no such thing as immortal, simply claiming that is borderline ludicrous.
Massive Multiplayer means that a lot of people play at the same time which does not mean that they HAVE to team up.
You just don't get it through that skull of your do you? You are asking something to be viable which would affect OTHERS playstyle. CO from the very beginning had NO HEALER class/role/need. You want to IMPOSE upon OTHERS YOUR PLAYSTYLE.
How is that the other side of the coin? That statement is illogical. You ask for something to be needed which BY DESIGN CO does not NEED. On the other hand I say nothing with regards to your playstyle except that you are not NEEDED. I never said you can't play a HEALER. You can play one for all I care, but asking to be NEEDED is completely different.
You are just ignorant and selfish. Everyone is this game can take a heal and heal themselves (if FF). How could anyone NEED a healer? If you want to make a support toon the go with AoRP or AoPM then take the auras from Specs and buff the entire team. Don't expect to be needed simply because everyone makes toons (if FF) that can be self sufficient/reliant.
CO is not like other games where you are in a class and you need to team up to be able to take on content (and that's good so, if that were the case CO would have NOTHING going for it except the CC).
Want to play a Healer, GO AHEAD!! BUT don't expect others to change the way they play/build toons just because you feel you are not needed as a HEALER. (there are no strict classes in this game there are only toons which are more inclined towards one than the others)
Obviously you don't know the difference between durable and immortal. Durable means resisting damage, Immortal means never DIEING. Immortal does not have anything to do with negating damage. It has everything to do with not dieing. There is a huge difference. You can be immortal and take tons of damage but never die, and you can be durable and take little damage and still die. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Also, I never said "I was talking about durable...bla bla bla" So don't go putting words in other people's mouths.
And I have made toons that were immortal, in pve and pvp. Tanks? Yes they used the tanking role. But they were never killable. And I seriously need to make one on live instead of only on the pts...but thats not the point.
You can be durable... and take little damage and still die...?
That word..durable... I don't think it means what you think it means.
Also google "arguing semantics". You'll get some good information on why it's a complete waste of time and just makes people not take you seriously.
Also the whole "Yeah I made unkillable toons! ...but only on the PTS..." ...not much credibility there.
Massive Multiplayer means interacting with others on a daily basis. This is implied and how things work, its obvious you missed something so easy to see and understand.
We are all interacting with one another on a daily basis. Where have you been? Try teaming now and then and you'll see that there's plenty of interaction going on.
Trust me on this, that interaction would be happening a lot less frequently if people needed healers. Do you really want people to have to spam "LF1M NEED HEALER" for 2 hours everytime they want to run something as a group? That would absolutely cause a massive wave of people quitting... probably the biggest ever seen.
"And yes you should feel not needed because you are not needed. " That is a very simple way of disregarding someone else's play style. Do you not pay attention to what you say? I could be even more picky about your choice of words, but it is late and I'm tired. Plus, if I'm being unreasonable, than so are you in the exact same manner and for the exact same reasons (on a basic level, basically the opposite side of the coin).
You seriously need to just stop being a butt hurt little puppy over this. Why do you want to be needed so badly? Are you just completely unable to have fun if the rest of the group doesn't need you to be around to be able to do anything? The hell kind of selfish needy mindset is that to have?
News flash: I have freeforms that can heal themselves. Guess what? Nobody needs them to be in the group either! Do I get all depressed knowing that if I went afk the group could still finish whatever content we're in? Hell no, that's selfish baby nonsense. I don't care if the group needs me or not, I'm just gonna go in there and do work and get it done and look good doin' it.
Nobody is needed in a group. Nobody. You can throw any random 5 players in this game together and have a successful run. You're not special just because you decided to take a few heals, so quit acting like you are. You want to feel special because you picked heals? Go play WoW or any of the other MMOs that force people to wait until a healer feels like joining a group... then forces them to wait if the healer decides to go afk... and forces them to wait again if the healer decides to quit the group mid-run. CO doesn't need that garbage; not now, not ever.
having 2 active defenses also means that you lose out on taking another power for your build. if anything is done, better to limit people to 1 active defense and 1 active offense rather than nerfing everything else into the ground. and yes revitalize was nerfed so hard it's no longer worth having.
(btw if they do limit it to 1 each, they'd better fix PFF first as that passive basically requires you to have 2 active defenses if you plan on tanking)
I am ok with people having two active defenses. I also think having two should grant you some sort of benefit. I would even be ok with people having perma active defenses if one would need aura of arcane clarity to reach that.
Look at it from this point: a change in cooldown reduction could make this passive worthwhile and increase build diversity.
And I do not want to nerf anything into the ground. I want to make small adjustments. In the end this is simply my opinion and the developers decide what we should be capable off. Also, if we really get some new content and justice gear we will be buffed as well. And I am really hoping we get new content with justice gear.
what I'm trying to say is nerfing cooldowns is not a good idea, and a 30 second cooldown on an active defense isn't such a terrible thing. the only thing causing less build diversity is people's choices. if people choose to build in a more diverse way then we will have more diversity. so, more powers, not more nerfs. or they could make things like mini mines and focused shot worth having.
The problem is that you don't really pay a price to reach that 30sec. Here is a screenshot from PTS. It is only at 31 sec granted, but I really do not think that should be possible. A build like that has superb energy management and insane cooldown reduction. What is the point of arcana clarity in this world?
Also I might add, you get 38% defense penetration from int with these values. There is a lot of offensive potential in there with a lot of hp and perma active defense running.
Honestly i'm of the mindset active defenses should be suplementing rather than being streight panic buttons. With that in mind I do not mind them becoming better with high recharge. I'd rather honestly they be faster but less panic buttons and more a part of a pro-active defense that allows you to deflect/avoid/protect yourself based on skill with them.
It would take much more 'skill' to be forced to predict the tide of battle instead of just rotating these two mindlessly. They clearly are not panic buttons other than something like resurgence of course.
Thing is, the two top-contenders, as it is, don't make you invincible by themselves. Unbreakable may be very powerful initially but quickly fades against medium-damage ticks while you are attacking, and heavy hitting damage will still get through easily(assuming your being aggressive, by medium damage tics I'm refering to 1000 damage/hits, heavy being 3-4k+). Masterful dodge without LR likewise is not god mode, more like guaranteed dodging that only stops some damage without using Lightning reflexes or quarry/way of the warrior(night warrior doesn't get high enough avoidance to get temporary god mode).
Most games have a 1.30 minute cooldown on 20% resistance to damage. Here if you use masterful dodge and you have no dodge or avoidance before using it then you get a 50% resistance to damage on a 30 second cooldown while is is up for 15 seconds this means that half the time you resist half the damage.
Funny thing was they ACTUALLY BUFFED MD by making it's advantage a different layer. Like what, why would you buff the current best power in PvP and one of the best for PvE? It's mental, crazy. They should have gone and given an advantage that also shields you for all conviction heals you for or something.
Edit: BTW I'd really prefer to see them add content still alongside the nerfs rather than just nerf without adding any content. It makes people feel we are being screwed when content isn't added alongside.
They have been working on new content.
I think being screwed was more like on alert when many mechanics got messed up before the dev team got pulled away to NW and never got around to fixing them.
games not about paying a price to get what build you want. the game's about making whatever damn hero you desire.
and arcane clarity sucks because its an awful power to begin with. it needs more cooldown reduction and charge speed reduction. I remember hearing that once it had that and when it did it was awesome.
Paying a price is the whole foundation of the freeform system in order to create the hero you want. If everyone has everything, then we all end up the same and your hero only differs in a few animations and the costume.
The system is all about choice and the impact of what you choose. If you choose an offensive passive you can't have a defensive passive at the same time. So the price you pay for more dmg is less defense. Now there are of course plenty of ways to do dmg with a def passive and to tank with an offensive one. I am not trying to force people into roles.
But in the end the idea of creating your hero, and the fun in the process of coming up with a build, is to choose powers (and maybe gear). To look at what it possible, think about advantages and disadvantages.
I would like to sit in front of my char builder and think: my god all these powers are awesome, what shall I pick?
And not: oh my god, I can either take the few fotm powers again or just hurt myself by doing something else.
Choice is a good thing. I would like so see end and rec being equal to int. I would like to look at my utility gear and think: what core should I use?
I would love a system were I can create the hero I want and be on equal footing with others. That means bringing different options into line. That means there should be a trade-off for picking int over reg and end.
And I might like to add, thats just my personal opinion.
you should be able to be tanky with an offensive passive. that said I agree you should have to do certain things to get that, such as using Con primary for a ranged toon, or STR primary with Con secondary for melee.
You can have 5k hp with an offensive passive and survive perfectly well and tank pretty much anything.
Saying that, why the hell would you go CON primary for the ranged toon? Just go strength primary with con secondary, that just highlights how messed up some mechanics are.
You seem to be against any sort of nerf and you seem to think it is very reasonable to NEVER die in a game. You seem to want to be able to solo the hardest of villains and you must not care for needing a team ever. PvP too be honest just enhances the broken mechanics, you should try to kill someone like malware with his LR and CON primary, or maybe the supremacy. It'll take 3 top DPS to take them down and they aren't even maxed out in tankiness compared to what you can possibly be.
Just think how much more players hit than NPC's too, so if 5 gravitar's (the hardest boss in the game) cannot kill you... Not broken? No, not at all!
games not about paying a price to get what build you want. the game's about making whatever damn hero you desire.
and arcane clarity sucks because its an awful power to begin with. it needs more cooldown reduction and charge speed reduction. I remember hearing that once it had that and when it did it was awesome.
The problem with this is that people end up making Super Man, which means content has to be based around the fact that anyone could be Super Man. Sorry folks playing Batman, but the hero you want to play just can't keep up.
The nerfs are in fact making it so people can play the kind of hero they want. The out of control power levels of certain choices is what is keeping people from being able to choose... especially if they have to base new content on those out of control power levels.
Think Gravitar.
As a side note... as a kid when making up super heroes, I never remember saying "This is Quick Man, his super power is that he doesn't have to wait a long time between using his super powers! o3o". I think that in creating your themes, you may be getting a bit too wrapped up in the numbers.
you should be able to be tanky with an offensive passive. that said I agree you should have to do certain things to get that, such as using Con primary for a ranged toon, or STR primary with Con secondary for melee.
Now that is a mindset I agree with. It should be possible to build your offensive passive toon tanky, but you should pay for durability with a little less dmg. Thats what makes a system fun, you have some trade-offs and choose what you want. So you create the hero you want in the end.
So why not make cooldown reduction in general lees efficient at high lvls and buff aura of arcane clarity. So you can still go for super low cooldowns but now you have too choose the proper passive for it.
As a side note... as a kid when making up super heroes, I never remember saying "This is Quick Man, his super power is that he doesn't have to wait a long time between using his super powers! o3o". I think that in creating your themes, you may be getting a bit too wrapped up in the numbers.
hey, I'd be ok with a 40 second cap. so long as they didn't nerf anything else to make that useless.
also, nerfing global cooldown reduction is a terrible idea. if we are discussing active offenses and defenses being OP then lets make it clear that that is all that should be affected by any nerfs which the nerf happy people here like to propose.
Conviction is another one.
Oo, teleport is made a lot better by it too.
Things like force geyser to juggle people in the air.
Strafing run / Unleashed rage / Shadow strike
CC like sonic device / ego sleep
Stealth spam.
Perma enrage
Some other powers I haven't mentioned that become super OP because of cooldown.
The fact cooldown is better than energy cost and CC is still an issue also.
Also there is a big problem with your logic, although this is a game made to make 'the hero you want to be' it still has to actually work as a game. Every hero has some kind of weakness, if he didn't then there would be no tension.
We are all interacting with one another on a daily basis. Where have you been? Try teaming now and then and you'll see that there's plenty of interaction going on.
You do realize that saying that just agreed with what I said that you quoted do you? Sot he "Where have you been?" was unneccassary.
Plus I'm done arguing. I'll just agree to disagree and move on.
I think dying is reasonable where it makes sense. gravitar killing some heroes instantly makes sense. some heroes, (like Hyperion from pnp) would make short work of gravitar if I'm not mistaken. I just want to be able to choose.
Players shouldn't have to choose to be weak, if that's what the powers that match their given idea would entail. Again... I'm really surprised to hear you saying that that sort of thing would be okay, considering not so long ago you were expressing your concerns that your choice to play a dodge themed hero would render you helpless and dying constantly...
You can't really be so naive to think that, even in a game where making a custom hero is the core mechanic, there won't be a majority of players picking certain powers and combinations simply because they are objectively better than others. You also can't be so close-minded to think that this means the blame for an unbalanced system restricting choices somehow rests on the shoulders of the players themselves. Thankfully, Cryptic N appears to be neither that naive nor that close-minded.
You do realize that saying that just agreed with what I said that you quoted do you? Sot he "Where have you been?" was unneccassary.
Plus I'm done arguing. I'll just agree to disagree and move on.
Except that you're trying to connect the notion of "Massively Multiplayer" with "people need healers", which is patently false. My statement was illustrating that player interaction happens even in the absence of players needing specific types of other players. Do you understand?
Except that you're trying to connect the notion of "Massively Multiplayer" with "people need healers", which is patently false. My statement was illustrating that player interaction happens even in the absence of players needing specific types of other players. Do you understand?
I never once said that the concept of MMOs is that people need healers. I've been saying that the concept of MMOs is to make everyone feel useful and needed. Completely different.
see, the whole reason a global cooldown nerf would screw everyone so bad is exactly what IMP said. just because something is useful doesn't make it need a nerf. if cooldown is so much better than cost discount, fix cost discount to make it worth it. and if people are using perma active offenses and defenses, and its somehow a problem, that can be fixed without breaking everything else. :rolleyes::rolleyes:
The only way they could make cost discount equal to cooldown reduction is if gettting high cost discount made your powers free of energy to use. Thats how broken cooldown reduction is.
I never once said that the concept of MMOs is that people need healers. I've been saying that the concept of MMOs is to make everyone feel useful and needed. Completely different.
So what you're saying is that the concept of MMOs is to make everyone feel needed... unless they're healers?
and once again you make no sense whatsoever. cost discount already has its usefulness (here's looking at you cascade spam builds)
Correct, we can at the moment make builds that spam the most expensive powers in the game if you build around that concept. Hence, cost discount doesn't need a buff. However, you do not similarly have to build around getting really short cooldowns... I know, because I have a character where the only "building" I did for short cooldowns was socket Cooldown Reduction gear, and that character magically became invincible based on that alone. It needs to be reduced, for the same reason dodge and crit needed to be reduced.
And yes there will be crying from people over the nerfs, but I don't really care because I'm too busy crying for new content, and balancing the game is a necessary step to getting it.
Don't worry gradii. They are going to fix this without breaking everything else, just like they did with Dodge and Crit. Given how well that whole thing actually turned out, I don't really understand why people are suddenly seeing doom again...
In case you're wondering, the reason that nerfing the top performers is generally the better solution, rather than buffing the bottom performers, is because always buffing everything causes power inflation. The game is already too easy (still, even after those big bad nerfs we just got), and while you might want to believe that everyone, or even just a majority, wants the game to stay that way, it's just not a viable plan to let it. What's important in the end is that it evens out, and for once in quite a long while that seems to actually be the plan.
By your logic people are removing cooldown entirely from powers with cooldown reduction with that statement(and they are not). And you have no idea how popular force cascade was when people had cost reduction that was far beyond in "effectiveness" in comparison to cooldown reduction today.
When I can constantly have an Active Defense going... yes, that is effectively removing the cooldown.
Also, hey look... that cost reduction that was far beyond in effectiveness in comparison to cooldown reduction today? It's gone, isn't it?
So what you're saying is that the concept of MMOs is to make everyone feel needed... unless they're healers?
Not sure what you are saying here. For it sounds like you are saying that I'm saying that the concept of MMOs is make everyone but healers feel useful, when I'm actually saying the concept is to make everyone feel needed, not excluding anyone.
and once again you make no sense whatsoever. cost discount already has its usefulness (here's looking at you cascade spam builds)
Actually with going full cd reduction in gear, int primary and aopm you can spam force cascade just fine, with your 30sec cd on active defense. And without an energy form.
But I would agree that in general cost discount has it's place in some builds.
One way that we could fix the problem with cooldowns would be to create certain NPC's that counter certain player attacks. Maybe these NPC's can pop up or be spawned or maybe many of the NPC's or Boss's use abilities that do such things.
Basically the idea would be like kryptonite is to superman, an NPC pops up and suddenly removes some buffs from you such as MD / ego surge etc... Also an NPC that halves healing on the player for about 20 seconds.
Then along side this they can add all new (or fix the current ones) 'purge' type powers that can be used by players in PvP to do the same as the NPC's do with removing MD while being used in PvE to get certain dangerous debuffs off you and your team.
that would be a good idea to add to bosses, although it wouldn't make sense for ordinary mobs to do that. see? now you're talking. think of ways other than nerfs to make the game more interesting.
Yeah but still, the nerfs are needed, in addition to more interesting mechanics. After all, it would be a shame to see them add more interesting mechanics... and then have players either just be able to ignore them, or have players need to build a certain way to deal with them.
Yeah but still, the nerfs are needed, in addition to more interesting mechanics. After all, it would be a shame to see them add more interesting mechanics... and then have players either just be able to ignore them, or have players need to build a certain way to deal with them.
They have already said that a big reason these nerfs were done to dodge was to open up the possibility for new cool game mechanics and interesting power sets. We need the current broken stuff to be fixed to create a solid platform for the new mechanics, if we don't we'll just find the stuff is even more broken than it was before.
They have already said that a big reason these nerfs were done to dodge was to open up the possibility for new cool game mechanics and interesting power sets. We need the current broken stuff to be fixed to create a solid platform for the new mechanics, if we don't we'll just find the stuff is even more broken than it was before.
These were the exact reasons they gave for the On Alert changes. Tell me how this won't be any different, considering the same guy in charge of THAT update was in charge of the new changes.
what I'm trying to say is nerfing cooldowns is not a good idea, and a 30 second cooldown on an active defense isn't such a terrible thing. the only thing causing less build diversity is people's choices. if people choose to build in a more diverse way then we will have more diversity. so, more powers, not more nerfs. or they could make things like mini mines and focused shot worth having.
Masterful Dodge's buff lasts for a full 15s, which means that the time for Masterful Dodge with 30s cooldown is actually 15s. That's pretty close to having a perma-Masterful Dodge.
I think this is the prime issue when it comes to reduced cooldown timers for Active Defenses. Let's face it; Masterful Dodge is superior to the other Active Defenses, regardless of whether or not the build is focused on dodge. While I don't support a global cooldown nerf, I certainly would understand if a (reasonable) hard cap on cooldown timers was introduced.
These were the exact reasons they gave for the On Alert changes. Tell me how this won't be any different, considering the same guy in charge of THAT update was in charge of the new changes.
Exactly. This is the continuation of the process that was interupted by the launch of NWO. Before the guy in charge of that and this was able to finish everything, they sent him off to work on elves and goblins. Now he's back to clean up the mess he was forced to leave behind.
It's going to be different this time because now everything started with on alert is actually going to be completed.
This is, of course, a typical occurance in the video game industry. You're in the middle of something, and suddenly corporate calls and says "you're done with that, push it to live and get started on the next thing", and boom you have On Alert... or Sonic 06'. The difference is here the guy can actually come back and finish it....not the case with ol' sonic.
Kinda the words behind my sig. I will say to another reply to this post, they nerfed things to an extreme before farther back than this, and nothing new really showed up in any reasonable quantity/quality :S.
Yeah your sig is interesting... because again, it seems to be trying to make some connection between nerfs and no new content. There is no such connection though. After all, it's not as if the devs need to get our permission to make nerfs by promising new content... and nerfs obvously have no physical way of preventing new content.
Again, it's not nerfs OR new content. If they never were going to bring out new content, then there wouldn't have been new content even without the nerfs.
Balance is something I've seen requested just as much as new content.
The fact is, while Champions Online is very open about character creation and builds, there is a game behind all of that customization. Themes and all are OK, but they have to give way to the game that you're playing. Oh, so you're supposed to be an invincible Superman-ish hero who can't be beaten no matter what? You can do that, and you've always been able to do that, you just have to play smart and realize that no matter what you still have a weakness and you have to cover it by playing smart because this is a game. If you don't mind not being invincible then you can still survive, you just have to be good at the game. unless of course you have legion gear that allows you to get massive cooldown reduction so you can push a button and live forever
Oh, and if you don't have a weakness or a downside of any sort, then congratulations, you just broke the game, and whatever you're using to become unreasonably 'immortal' should be looked at and adjusted for the sake of the game at large. Cooldown reduction, for example, needs a solid kick in the teeth for what it's doing to the game.
Higher mob numbers won't solve it. I can take a few Archetypes into the Powerhouse on 5 Man DEMON Hard and aggro the whole room and survive and kill everything despite the constant incoming damage. (said ATs are Specialist and Invincible, which, while they're good ATs, aren't exactly up to general Freeform par. Glaciers can take on the whole room too.) Possibly thanks to spec trees, possibly thanks to my Heroic gear that gives me wondrous cooldown reduction, possibly because the ATs themselves are strong... or a mix of all three? Either way, I just fought three large groups of enemies at once, with three Master Villains with knocks, holds and shields, six Villains with knocks and a bunch of mooks that do chip damage. The only time stuff like this actually happens is when you go into a five man instance all alone because you didn't wait for your buddies.
Enemies that can debuff people are another consideration but I'm sure that'll fail too. You wanna know why?
/bind x "target Dodge-Debuffing Jerk"
That's why. I've done this with Brickbusters in teams to kill them first pre-On Alert because of how dangerous they are. Why would I not do this again when Dodge-Debuffing Jerks show up? If players don't know how to do keybinds, one or two unexpected deaths should be enough to make them learn that they really need to kill the xxx-Debuffing Jerk first.
Our current power levels are exactly why bosses have access to instant kill mechanics. Almost nobody survives Gravitar's yellow bubble (hint: block and MD and be at full health), Cybermind's Virus Rain cuts through any and all resistance (hint: get the colored 'upgrade' and stand on the same colored square), and I'm lead to believe that Fire and Ice will have a few instant kill mechanics. Oh, and Warlord's napalm patches are an effective and easy way to take someone out of the fight, and Hi-Pan's spinny yin yang of doom will murder you if you do it wrong. Then there's the time limits introducing even more fake difficulty! I have yet to beat Ironclad and Duratok in the Forum Malvanum since its premier (when we were all allowed to be level 40 for it) and Red Winter used to be a pain, but people know what they're doing now so it's much easier.
Oh, and the new Black Harlequin alert? Those giant mecha soldiers hit like trucks for a reason.
Cryptic painted themselves into a corner with the spec trees and slotted gear, releasing Justice Gear would have been them attempting to paint that corner and getting paint all over their nice platemail boots and ruining their nice Star Trek t-shirt.
Until this game becomes harder to play (difficulty raised or tougher content)
Justice gear needs to stay where it is. In cyber space, by itself. And not be let out until the above happens... if ever.
Comments
I don't understand why you call for hard content and yet strongly hate the new gear and strongly hate any fixes to broken game mechanics. Embrace the fixes and enjoy the benefits (new content) that hopefully is to come.
FYI revitalise is still perfectly fine to use, it uses up just 3 spec points and so should be build changing anyway, the idea is you don't have a build built around it instead you use it to back up your build. It wasn't designed to be used like it was used for the self touch build to have perma MD / ego surge / NPG spam, it was designed to help recharge your powers as you used your energy builder in between attacks.
Also I still believe you can tank this game with virtually anything.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
So you're advocating that they restrict our build choices? That seems strange coming from you, since you're always talking about how you hate that the nerfs supposedly restrict how you can build... yet here you are, advocating that they impose more restrictions on our build choices.
Also, you have a strange notion of what "nerfed into the ground" means. For example, dodge was not nerfed into the ground, so why would cooldowns receive any different of a treatment?
It's like you always say... players should be able to build for things right? Well, if someone wants to have those super short cooldowns, they should have to build for it, not just slap a few mods into a piece of gear and call it a day. Just like you can still build for high dodge chance, you will still be able to build for low cooldowns after such a nerf.
It's like you say, if you take a power to get something, you give up the ability to get other things. Well, after the cooldown nerf, you would have to take something for your cooldowns to be low, giving up other options. This would be a good thing, because it creates greater diversity in builds. The inflated cooldown reduction, crit chance, and dodge chance stats were causing less diversity in builds.
So in closing, I am in favor of more viable choices for builds, and greater build diversity. Feel free to disagree (or better yet, just go play an Archetype if you hate those things so much).
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
[size=+1]Hear, hear![/size]
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
That depends on your definition of tanking. Tanking pve content means keeping agro, and soaking up damage, as far as I am concerned. And you certainly can't do that with any build on any team.
Obviously you don't know the difference between durable and immortal. Durable means resisting damage, Immortal means never DIEING. Immortal does not have anything to do with negating damage. It has everything to do with not dieing. There is a huge difference. You can be immortal and take tons of damage but never die, and you can be durable and take little damage and still die. HUGE DIFFERENCE. Also, I never said "I was talking about durable...bla bla bla" So don't go putting words in other people's mouths.
And I have made toons that were immortal, in pve and pvp. Tanks? Yes they used the tanking role. But they were never killable. And I seriously need to make one on live instead of only on the pts...but thats not the point.
Massive Multiplayer means interacting with others on a daily basis. This is implied and how things work, its obvious you missed something so easy to see and understand.
"And yes you should feel not needed because you are not needed. " That is a very simple way of disregarding someone else's play style. Do you not pay attention to what you say? I could be even more picky about your choice of words, but it is late and I'm tired. Plus, if I'm being unreasonable, than so are you in the exact same manner and for the exact same reasons (on a basic level, basically the opposite side of the coin).
Obviously you just QQ because that's all you seem to be able to do. There is no such thing as immortal, simply claiming that is borderline ludicrous.
Massive Multiplayer means that a lot of people play at the same time which does not mean that they HAVE to team up.
You just don't get it through that skull of your do you? You are asking something to be viable which would affect OTHERS playstyle. CO from the very beginning had NO HEALER class/role/need. You want to IMPOSE upon OTHERS YOUR PLAYSTYLE.
How is that the other side of the coin? That statement is illogical. You ask for something to be needed which BY DESIGN CO does not NEED. On the other hand I say nothing with regards to your playstyle except that you are not NEEDED. I never said you can't play a HEALER. You can play one for all I care, but asking to be NEEDED is completely different.
You are just ignorant and selfish. Everyone is this game can take a heal and heal themselves (if FF). How could anyone NEED a healer? If you want to make a support toon the go with AoRP or AoPM then take the auras from Specs and buff the entire team. Don't expect to be needed simply because everyone makes toons (if FF) that can be self sufficient/reliant.
CO is not like other games where you are in a class and you need to team up to be able to take on content (and that's good so, if that were the case CO would have NOTHING going for it except the CC).
Want to play a Healer, GO AHEAD!! BUT don't expect others to change the way they play/build toons just because you feel you are not needed as a HEALER. (there are no strict classes in this game there are only toons which are more inclined towards one than the others)
You can be durable... and take little damage and still die...?
That word..durable... I don't think it means what you think it means.
Also google "arguing semantics". You'll get some good information on why it's a complete waste of time and just makes people not take you seriously.
Also the whole "Yeah I made unkillable toons! ...but only on the PTS..." ...not much credibility there.
We are all interacting with one another on a daily basis. Where have you been? Try teaming now and then and you'll see that there's plenty of interaction going on.
Trust me on this, that interaction would be happening a lot less frequently if people needed healers. Do you really want people to have to spam "LF1M NEED HEALER" for 2 hours everytime they want to run something as a group? That would absolutely cause a massive wave of people quitting... probably the biggest ever seen.
You seriously need to just stop being a butt hurt little puppy over this. Why do you want to be needed so badly? Are you just completely unable to have fun if the rest of the group doesn't need you to be around to be able to do anything? The hell kind of selfish needy mindset is that to have?
News flash: I have freeforms that can heal themselves. Guess what? Nobody needs them to be in the group either! Do I get all depressed knowing that if I went afk the group could still finish whatever content we're in? Hell no, that's selfish baby nonsense. I don't care if the group needs me or not, I'm just gonna go in there and do work and get it done and look good doin' it.
Nobody is needed in a group. Nobody. You can throw any random 5 players in this game together and have a successful run. You're not special just because you decided to take a few heals, so quit acting like you are. You want to feel special because you picked heals? Go play WoW or any of the other MMOs that force people to wait until a healer feels like joining a group... then forces them to wait if the healer decides to go afk... and forces them to wait again if the healer decides to quit the group mid-run. CO doesn't need that garbage; not now, not ever.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I am ok with people having two active defenses. I also think having two should grant you some sort of benefit. I would even be ok with people having perma active defenses if one would need aura of arcane clarity to reach that.
Look at it from this point: a change in cooldown reduction could make this passive worthwhile and increase build diversity.
And I do not want to nerf anything into the ground. I want to make small adjustments. In the end this is simply my opinion and the developers decide what we should be capable off. Also, if we really get some new content and justice gear we will be buffed as well. And I am really hoping we get new content with justice gear.
The problem is that you don't really pay a price to reach that 30sec. Here is a screenshot from PTS. It is only at 31 sec granted, but I really do not think that should be possible. A build like that has superb energy management and insane cooldown reduction. What is the point of arcana clarity in this world?
Also I might add, you get 38% defense penetration from int with these values. There is a lot of offensive potential in there with a lot of hp and perma active defense running.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
It would take much more 'skill' to be forced to predict the tide of battle instead of just rotating these two mindlessly. They clearly are not panic buttons other than something like resurgence of course.
Most games have a 1.30 minute cooldown on 20% resistance to damage. Here if you use masterful dodge and you have no dodge or avoidance before using it then you get a 50% resistance to damage on a 30 second cooldown while is is up for 15 seconds this means that half the time you resist half the damage.
Funny thing was they ACTUALLY BUFFED MD by making it's advantage a different layer. Like what, why would you buff the current best power in PvP and one of the best for PvE? It's mental, crazy. They should have gone and given an advantage that also shields you for all conviction heals you for or something.
They have been working on new content.
I think being screwed was more like on alert when many mechanics got messed up before the dev team got pulled away to NW and never got around to fixing them.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Paying a price is the whole foundation of the freeform system in order to create the hero you want. If everyone has everything, then we all end up the same and your hero only differs in a few animations and the costume.
The system is all about choice and the impact of what you choose. If you choose an offensive passive you can't have a defensive passive at the same time. So the price you pay for more dmg is less defense. Now there are of course plenty of ways to do dmg with a def passive and to tank with an offensive one. I am not trying to force people into roles.
But in the end the idea of creating your hero, and the fun in the process of coming up with a build, is to choose powers (and maybe gear). To look at what it possible, think about advantages and disadvantages.
I would like to sit in front of my char builder and think: my god all these powers are awesome, what shall I pick?
And not: oh my god, I can either take the few fotm powers again or just hurt myself by doing something else.
Choice is a good thing. I would like so see end and rec being equal to int. I would like to look at my utility gear and think: what core should I use?
I would love a system were I can create the hero I want and be on equal footing with others. That means bringing different options into line. That means there should be a trade-off for picking int over reg and end.
And I might like to add, thats just my personal opinion.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
You can have 5k hp with an offensive passive and survive perfectly well and tank pretty much anything.
Saying that, why the hell would you go CON primary for the ranged toon? Just go strength primary with con secondary, that just highlights how messed up some mechanics are.
You seem to be against any sort of nerf and you seem to think it is very reasonable to NEVER die in a game. You seem to want to be able to solo the hardest of villains and you must not care for needing a team ever. PvP too be honest just enhances the broken mechanics, you should try to kill someone like malware with his LR and CON primary, or maybe the supremacy. It'll take 3 top DPS to take them down and they aren't even maxed out in tankiness compared to what you can possibly be.
Just think how much more players hit than NPC's too, so if 5 gravitar's (the hardest boss in the game) cannot kill you... Not broken? No, not at all!
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
The problem with this is that people end up making Super Man, which means content has to be based around the fact that anyone could be Super Man. Sorry folks playing Batman, but the hero you want to play just can't keep up.
The nerfs are in fact making it so people can play the kind of hero they want. The out of control power levels of certain choices is what is keeping people from being able to choose... especially if they have to base new content on those out of control power levels.
Think Gravitar.
As a side note... as a kid when making up super heroes, I never remember saying "This is Quick Man, his super power is that he doesn't have to wait a long time between using his super powers! o3o". I think that in creating your themes, you may be getting a bit too wrapped up in the numbers.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Now that is a mindset I agree with. It should be possible to build your offensive passive toon tanky, but you should pay for durability with a little less dmg. Thats what makes a system fun, you have some trade-offs and choose what you want. So you create the hero you want in the end.
So why not make cooldown reduction in general lees efficient at high lvls and buff aura of arcane clarity. So you can still go for super low cooldowns but now you have too choose the proper passive for it.
No, this is Quick Man.
Although I have to admit at first I though of that.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Conviction is another one.
Oo, teleport is made a lot better by it too.
Things like force geyser to juggle people in the air.
Strafing run / Unleashed rage / Shadow strike
CC like sonic device / ego sleep
Stealth spam.
Perma enrage
Some other powers I haven't mentioned that become super OP because of cooldown.
The fact cooldown is better than energy cost and CC is still an issue also.
Also there is a big problem with your logic, although this is a game made to make 'the hero you want to be' it still has to actually work as a game. Every hero has some kind of weakness, if he didn't then there would be no tension.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
You do realize that saying that just agreed with what I said that you quoted do you? Sot he "Where have you been?" was unneccassary.
Plus I'm done arguing. I'll just agree to disagree and move on.
Players shouldn't have to choose to be weak, if that's what the powers that match their given idea would entail. Again... I'm really surprised to hear you saying that that sort of thing would be okay, considering not so long ago you were expressing your concerns that your choice to play a dodge themed hero would render you helpless and dying constantly...
You can't really be so naive to think that, even in a game where making a custom hero is the core mechanic, there won't be a majority of players picking certain powers and combinations simply because they are objectively better than others. You also can't be so close-minded to think that this means the blame for an unbalanced system restricting choices somehow rests on the shoulders of the players themselves. Thankfully, Cryptic N appears to be neither that naive nor that close-minded.
Except that you're trying to connect the notion of "Massively Multiplayer" with "people need healers", which is patently false. My statement was illustrating that player interaction happens even in the absence of players needing specific types of other players. Do you understand?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
I never once said that the concept of MMOs is that people need healers. I've been saying that the concept of MMOs is to make everyone feel useful and needed. Completely different.
The only way they could make cost discount equal to cooldown reduction is if gettting high cost discount made your powers free of energy to use. Thats how broken cooldown reduction is.
So what you're saying is that the concept of MMOs is to make everyone feel needed... unless they're healers?
Correct, we can at the moment make builds that spam the most expensive powers in the game if you build around that concept. Hence, cost discount doesn't need a buff. However, you do not similarly have to build around getting really short cooldowns... I know, because I have a character where the only "building" I did for short cooldowns was socket Cooldown Reduction gear, and that character magically became invincible based on that alone. It needs to be reduced, for the same reason dodge and crit needed to be reduced.
And yes there will be crying from people over the nerfs, but I don't really care because I'm too busy crying for new content, and balancing the game is a necessary step to getting it.
Don't worry gradii. They are going to fix this without breaking everything else, just like they did with Dodge and Crit. Given how well that whole thing actually turned out, I don't really understand why people are suddenly seeing doom again...
In case you're wondering, the reason that nerfing the top performers is generally the better solution, rather than buffing the bottom performers, is because always buffing everything causes power inflation. The game is already too easy (still, even after those big bad nerfs we just got), and while you might want to believe that everyone, or even just a majority, wants the game to stay that way, it's just not a viable plan to let it. What's important in the end is that it evens out, and for once in quite a long while that seems to actually be the plan.
When I can constantly have an Active Defense going... yes, that is effectively removing the cooldown.
Also, hey look... that cost reduction that was far beyond in effectiveness in comparison to cooldown reduction today? It's gone, isn't it?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Not sure what you are saying here. For it sounds like you are saying that I'm saying that the concept of MMOs is make everyone but healers feel useful, when I'm actually saying the concept is to make everyone feel needed, not excluding anyone.
Actually with going full cd reduction in gear, int primary and aopm you can spam force cascade just fine, with your 30sec cd on active defense. And without an energy form.
But I would agree that in general cost discount has it's place in some builds.
My stomach is clear and my mind is full of bacon!
Basically the idea would be like kryptonite is to superman, an NPC pops up and suddenly removes some buffs from you such as MD / ego surge etc... Also an NPC that halves healing on the player for about 20 seconds.
Then along side this they can add all new (or fix the current ones) 'purge' type powers that can be used by players in PvP to do the same as the NPC's do with removing MD while being used in PvE to get certain dangerous debuffs off you and your team.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Yeah but still, the nerfs are needed, in addition to more interesting mechanics. After all, it would be a shame to see them add more interesting mechanics... and then have players either just be able to ignore them, or have players need to build a certain way to deal with them.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
They have already said that a big reason these nerfs were done to dodge was to open up the possibility for new cool game mechanics and interesting power sets. We need the current broken stuff to be fixed to create a solid platform for the new mechanics, if we don't we'll just find the stuff is even more broken than it was before.
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
These were the exact reasons they gave for the On Alert changes. Tell me how this won't be any different, considering the same guy in charge of THAT update was in charge of the new changes.
Masterful Dodge's buff lasts for a full 15s, which means that the time for Masterful Dodge with 30s cooldown is actually 15s. That's pretty close to having a perma-Masterful Dodge.
I think this is the prime issue when it comes to reduced cooldown timers for Active Defenses. Let's face it; Masterful Dodge is superior to the other Active Defenses, regardless of whether or not the build is focused on dodge. While I don't support a global cooldown nerf, I certainly would understand if a (reasonable) hard cap on cooldown timers was introduced.
Exactly. This is the continuation of the process that was interupted by the launch of NWO. Before the guy in charge of that and this was able to finish everything, they sent him off to work on elves and goblins. Now he's back to clean up the mess he was forced to leave behind.
It's going to be different this time because now everything started with on alert is actually going to be completed.
This is, of course, a typical occurance in the video game industry. You're in the middle of something, and suddenly corporate calls and says "you're done with that, push it to live and get started on the next thing", and boom you have On Alert... or Sonic 06'. The difference is here the guy can actually come back and finish it....not the case with ol' sonic.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Yeah your sig is interesting... because again, it seems to be trying to make some connection between nerfs and no new content. There is no such connection though. After all, it's not as if the devs need to get our permission to make nerfs by promising new content... and nerfs obvously have no physical way of preventing new content.
Again, it's not nerfs OR new content. If they never were going to bring out new content, then there wouldn't have been new content even without the nerfs.
Balance is something I've seen requested just as much as new content.
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Having to qoute myself feels kinda lame but I can't be asked to write it all out again.
We're going around in circles on this thread. <.<
A Playlist of my CO PvP video's (starting from post nerf PTS team duels)
Those suggestions aren't actually part of the circle though.. why are you mentioning them?
My super cool CC build and how to use it.
Oh, and if you don't have a weakness or a downside of any sort, then congratulations, you just broke the game, and whatever you're using to become unreasonably 'immortal' should be looked at and adjusted for the sake of the game at large. Cooldown reduction, for example, needs a solid kick in the teeth for what it's doing to the game.
Higher mob numbers won't solve it. I can take a few Archetypes into the Powerhouse on 5 Man DEMON Hard and aggro the whole room and survive and kill everything despite the constant incoming damage. (said ATs are Specialist and Invincible, which, while they're good ATs, aren't exactly up to general Freeform par. Glaciers can take on the whole room too.) Possibly thanks to spec trees, possibly thanks to my Heroic gear that gives me wondrous cooldown reduction, possibly because the ATs themselves are strong... or a mix of all three? Either way, I just fought three large groups of enemies at once, with three Master Villains with knocks, holds and shields, six Villains with knocks and a bunch of mooks that do chip damage. The only time stuff like this actually happens is when you go into a five man instance all alone because you didn't wait for your buddies.
Enemies that can debuff people are another consideration but I'm sure that'll fail too. You wanna know why?
/bind x "target Dodge-Debuffing Jerk"
That's why. I've done this with Brickbusters in teams to kill them first pre-On Alert because of how dangerous they are. Why would I not do this again when Dodge-Debuffing Jerks show up? If players don't know how to do keybinds, one or two unexpected deaths should be enough to make them learn that they really need to kill the xxx-Debuffing Jerk first.
Our current power levels are exactly why bosses have access to instant kill mechanics. Almost nobody survives Gravitar's yellow bubble (hint: block and MD and be at full health), Cybermind's Virus Rain cuts through any and all resistance (hint: get the colored 'upgrade' and stand on the same colored square), and I'm lead to believe that Fire and Ice will have a few instant kill mechanics. Oh, and Warlord's napalm patches are an effective and easy way to take someone out of the fight, and Hi-Pan's spinny yin yang of doom will murder you if you do it wrong. Then there's the time limits introducing even more fake difficulty! I have yet to beat Ironclad and Duratok in the Forum Malvanum since its premier (when we were all allowed to be level 40 for it) and Red Winter used to be a pain, but people know what they're doing now so it's much easier.
Oh, and the new Black Harlequin alert? Those giant mecha soldiers hit like trucks for a reason.
Cryptic painted themselves into a corner with the spec trees and slotted gear, releasing Justice Gear would have been them attempting to paint that corner and getting paint all over their nice platemail boots and ruining their nice Star Trek t-shirt.
Justice gear needs to stay where it is. In cyber space, by itself. And not be let out until the above happens... if ever.